Your Mac and Apple Vision Pro: What You Can Do (and What You Can't)

[spinedoc77]

No doubt at all that hair/makeup/etc are likely to be casualties in using this product... just like if that wife opts to take a motorcycle ride, wear a baseball hat for a while, strap on a diving mask for a swim, etc. Even a convertible can be a hair disaster if one takes a ride with wet hair.

And yet, men and women buy convertibles, ride motorcycles, wear baseball hats, dive, etc. If at the end of usage one needs perfect hair, don't use it. I see people opt to sleep on airplanes and head positions against airplane seats/walls can yield to hair disasters. I see people using headphones and that mussing up the hair by the end of the flight too. Yet such people still fly anyway and still opt to sleep or use headphones while flying.

Convertibles and motorcycles are far from the majority of transportation vehicles exactly because of convenience and comfort, if you are swimming well then your hair is wet...duh? My point is that the comfort factor will be another hurdle the VP's have to overcome, and for many consumers it will be an issue. It doesn't even have to be about hair and makeup, ie sweat, pressure marks on the face, discomfort from the weight, claustrophobia, inability to see the outside world (no pass through isn't as good as full vision), etc. A more glasses-like package would have gone a long way towards this.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

I was just pointing out how inherently impractical this product is. Some people are talking about this thing like it is the next iPhone.

It's a wholly new form factor. Only comparable to the iPhone in the sense that it is run off of the same core OS. I haven't seen anyone, other than detractors, try to claim that this will or won't be as popular as the iPhone.

I'll say this, I think this will sell more than the Mac Pro, Mac Studio, Studio Display and perhaps even the Mac Mini. All of which Apple sells and to my recollection, I've seen nobody claim Apple is wrong to sell products that don't sell as well as the iPhone.

I don't doubt it will be impressive when you first try it out, but Apple are selling this as something you will want to wear all the time.

Can you show me any single statement by Apple that says this?

I use my laptop in starts and stops. I sit for an hour, move around, then return. It's very rare for me to not take a break from my laptop after relatively short periods of time. There have been a few days in which I've probably worked straight for 6 or 7 hours, but that is the exception, not the rule.

I think the AVP will be similar. I'll use it for periods of time, take a break, then come back to it.

On a less serious note imagine what this will do to makeup, hairstyles etc. I doubt it will be popular with women.

People mess up their hair or their makeup in times when it is justified. I've ridden my motorcycle with a helmet for up to 12 hours per day. My wife wears her helmet when she joins me. I used to be an avid skiier, and I wore goggle for long, extended periods. We wear things on our heads, on our faces, over our ears...when there's a compelling reason to do so. This is no different.

I totally get that people want to buy into this futuristic vision, but I think practical reality will kick in and ultimately people will go back to using their traditional computers and displays after trying this out (the few that can afford it that is).

Maybe. Or maybe not. I think the AVP offers me capabilities that I can't get in any other device. Productive uses that I think will transform the way I work on my projects. Your mileage, and that of many others, will vary.

 

[Surf Monkey]

Convertibles and motorcycles are far from the majority of transportation vehicles exactly because of convenience and comfort, if you are swimming well then your hair is wet...duh? My point is that the comfort factor will be another hurdle the VP's have to overcome, and for many consumers it will be an issue. It doesn't even have to be about hair and makeup, ie sweat, pressure marks on the face, discomfort from the weight, claustrophobia, inability to see the outside world (no pass through isn't as good as full vision), etc. A more glasses-like package would have gone a long way towards this.

You’ll get a ton of pushback on this, likely from people with short hair. But the fact is that you’re correct. This device will destroy your hairstyle and smear your makeup around. To that extent it’s a major barrier to adoption for many, many people.

 

[G5isAlive]

There are many companies making *almost* glasses sized units. But even *almost* still gets you something that at least only sits on your nose and ears that you can put on and off as easily as glasses. Honestly, the more I think about it, the more amazed I am that Apple truly is releasing something so incredibly clunky.

And if rumors are correct, some apple execs agree with you. But Apple IS releasing something so big for the same reason they released something so big with their first lap top (which was suitcase sized). To get the ball rolling. People at the time were criticizing Apple's GUI and saying no way could you get that working on a laptop, MSDOS with its text interface was inherently better. So Apple released a suitcase.

As many have mentioned, the world is already littered with failed AVP attempts, so their stance is the field as a whole is just doomed to failure (like 3D tv is the common analogy). No one will ever want to wear glasses.

But maybe Apple is thinking, that the reason previous attempts have failed is not the category, but lack of eye control, lack of sufficiently detailed screens, lack of sensors, lack of good pass through, lack of computing power, and lack of useable hand gestures (yeah I know you got a hand gesture for me). And the hardware required today to raise the bar on all those concerns, happens to be suitcase sized (metaphorically compared to glasses). So let's get the ball rolling. Can't have good software (and I concede the lack of killer App today), without good hardware.

Is it bigger than anyone would like? yes. Does it cost more than anyone (besides maybe Apple) would like? yes.

But is it small enough that the improvements they have made are enough to justify its use and get the darn ball rolling?

we will all find out soon enough. I am betting, 'yes.'

 

[spinedoc77]

The Apple premium is nothing new. One can get a smart phone for $100 and an Apple PRO MAX is then "12 times higher" but Apple still moves millions of people to pay 12 times higher.

Same with tablets. Same with computers.

I can very much feel the pain of this sky high price- I was not liking the previously-rumored $2999 price when that was what we believe it would be- but until we see the full scope of what it can do, we are unfavorably comparing it as "vapor" to tangibles that already exist.

Best I know, Apple never wins any product contest on pricing: one can always assume the Apple variant will be priced HIGHER. Whether buyers get tangible value for that "higher" is up to the judgement of those buyers. Else, our disgust at this pricing should be similarly applied to the rest of the product mix, which is all substantially higher than competing products.

I think $3500 is way too high myself... especially against the backdrop of existing ones at 1/3rd to 1/6th the price. On the other hand, if we compare it against professional ones priced much higher than it, it can look like a bargain. Is it as good as some of the higher-priced ones? TBD. It is tangibly better than the lower-priced ones? TBD.

Yeah, thinking through the price it does make sense, after all Apple can afford to sell $699 wheels for the Mac Pro. If you look at this as a really high end, well specced VR headset then I suppose the price isn't out of the ordinary, similar to a $1200 phone versus a $400 phone. I just think Apple is going to have a VERY hard time convincing the unwashed masses to spend that much, of course this is really only the developer round and technology will get cheaper, plus we all know Apple loves to create multiple priced tiers of their products. But I still think about the current market of VR devices, the Quest 3 is pretty darn good for $500 yet we aren't exactly seeing these become a household name. There is still a killer app and/or killer functionality missing here.

 

[Surf Monkey]

It's a wholly new form factor. Only comparable to the iPhone in the sense that it is run off of the same core OS. I haven't seen anyone, other than detractors, try to claim that this will or won't be as popular as the iPhone.

I'll say this, I think this will sell more than the Mac Pro, Mac Studio, Studio Display and perhaps even the Mac Mini. All of which Apple sells and to my recollection, I've seen nobody claim Apple is wrong to sell products that don't sell as well as the iPhone.


Can you show me any single statement by Apple that says this?

I use my laptop in starts and stops. I sit for an hour, move around, then return. It's very rare for me to not take a break from my laptop after relatively short periods of time. There have been a few days in which I've probably worked straight for 6 or 7 hours, but that is the exception, not the rule.

I think the AVP will be similar. I'll use it for periods of time, take a break, then come back to it.



People mess up their hair or their makeup in times when it is justified. I've ridden my motorcycle with a helmet for up to 12 hours per day. My wife wears her helmet when she joins me. I used to be an avid skiier, and I wore goggle for long, extended periods. We wear things on our heads, on our faces, over our ears...when there's a compelling reason to do so. This is no different.


Maybe. Or maybe not. I think the AVP offers me capabilities that I can't get in any other device. Productive uses that I think will transform the way I work on my projects. Your mileage, and that of many others, will vary.

Anecdotes don’t prove much. I have long hair. If I had to redo it every time I took this thing off… and I was putting it on and taking it off multiple times a day, I’d be pretty annoyed.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

I’m not confusing anything. The examples used were all Macintosh apps. When I specifically said that single mirrored monitors were what it will do people became enraged and told me that I was wrong. When I pointed out the AirPlay bandwidth issues people lambasted me and said I was just bashing for the sake of bashing. Telling me I’m confused isn’t useful. I’m not confused at all.

Which examples. Where? We can both go watch the Intro film to the AVP; they've never suggested what you're saying. And I don't recall anyone responding to you in that manner.

The AVP WILL do multiple virtual displays of APPS in VOS. And, it will simultaneiously mirror a Mac desktop.

But you keep wanting to argue with some made up idea of what the AVP is and does. Argue against what it actually is. No need to manufacture straw man arguments. (Or give me 3 or 4 links to posts that back up what you're saying).

 

[Timo_Existencia]

Convertibles and motorcycles are far from the majority of transportation vehicles exactly because of convenience and comfort, if you are swimming well then your hair is wet...duh? My point is that the comfort factor will be another hurdle the VP's have to overcome, and for many consumers it will be an issue. It doesn't even have to be about hair and makeup, ie sweat, pressure marks on the face, discomfort from the weight, claustrophobia, inability to see the outside world (no pass through isn't as good as full vision), etc. A more glasses-like package would have gone a long way towards this.

Sure, just as you say, many people choose not to buy motorcycles or convertibles, or go skiing, or swimming. But many do. Motorcycles and ski goggle sell plenty well.

 

[spinedoc77]

You’ll get a ton of pushback on this, likely from people with short hair. But the fact is that you’re correct. This device will destroy your hairstyle and smear your makeup around. To that extent it’s a major barrier to adoption for many, many people.

Yep. I'm having a difficult time with those comparing 12 hours of motorcycle riding with wearing the VP for a couple of hours to get work done. Yeah, obviously if you are going for a 12 hour motorcycle ride you are going to be prepared to be uncomfortable, getting a few extra spreadsheets in before lunch or watching a movie on a plane, not so much.

 

[G5isAlive]

No “infinite displays in any size.”

To be honest, I have only seen you use the word 'infinite.' Many have said it will maintain multiple viewing windows, and a few, maybe two, of us have suggested ways this could be improved on by selective focus, but no one has claimed infinite displays in any size.

 

[WarmWinterHat]

Sure, just as you say, many people choose not to buy motorcycles or convertibles, or go skiing, or swimming. But many do. Motorcycles and ski goggle sell plenty well.

Those are recreational things. Using this in a business setting will be different.

My wife is an attorney and needs to look extremely sharp in the courthouse/courtroom. She isn't going to redo her hair/makeup constantly just to use a computer, and she has shorter hair than I do. Judges get annoyed if you aren't dressed properly even on Zoom hearings...men too.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

Anecdotes don’t prove much. I have long hair. If I had to redo it every time I took this thing off… and I was putting it on and taking it off multiple times a day, I’d be pretty annoyed.

And becasue you don't see any value that would justify messing up your hair, you won't buy it. We get it. But people make different choices. Some will not be a bothered by this as you are. The world is a big place. Billions of people. With different value systems, needs and wants. That you won't do it is exactly the "anecdote" your'e trying to pin on me.

 

[arkitect]

You’ll get a ton of pushback on this, likely from people with short hair. But the fact is that you’re correct. This device will destroy your hairstyle and smear your makeup around. To that extent it’s a major barrier to adoption for many, many people.

Yup.
I think part of the success of the iPhone and Apple Watch has been the way it has been seen as a fashionable accessory.

Bling cases, flashy straps… you name it.

This is just a make-up hairdo killer.

Still, if you're the only one in the basement or the sofa… I guess you're good to go. 🤣

 

[Surf Monkey]

Which examples. Where? We can both go watch the Intro film to the AVP; they've never suggested what you're saying. And I don't recall anyone responding to you in that manner.

The AVP WILL do multiple virtual displays of APPS in VOS. And, it will simultaneiously mirror a Mac desktop.

But you keep wanting to argue with some made up idea of what the AVP is and does. Argue against what it actually is. No need to manufacture straw man arguments. (Or give me 3 or 4 links to posts that back up what you're saying).

Trying to make it personal is a mistake on your part.

My posts are on the board for anyone to read. I was correct in regard to multiple MAC monitors. None of you will ever admit it at this point since you’ve spent so much capital trashing me for pointing out a simple FACT. So it goes in Mac fandom world.

 

[baryon]

Also what you can't do: play VR any existing game.

 

[Surf Monkey]

And becasue you don't see any value that would justify messing up your hair, you won't buy it.

That isn’t what I said.

We get it. But people make different choices. Some will not be a bothered by this as you are. The world is a big place. Billions of people. With different value systems, needs and wants. That you won't do it is exactly the "anecdote" your'e trying to pin on me.

I never claimed my post wasn’t anecdotal. But if you honestly think people won’t be put off by a device that messes up their hair, well, you’re dead wrong.

 

[PowerMac5500]

Deleted

 

[Timo_Existencia]

Yep. I'm having a difficult time with those comparing 12 hours of motorcycle riding with wearing the VP for a couple of hours to get work done. Yeah, obviously if you are going for a 12 hour motorcycle ride you are going to be prepared to be uncomfortable, getting a few extra spreadsheets in before lunch or watching a movie on a plane, not so much.

You're missing the point. Or manufacturing a false equivalency. In your mind, there's zero benefit to using the AVP. So, combined with zero benefit, of course nobody will want to mess up their hair.

But for anyone who does see a benefit to using the AVP, they'll have a different calculation.

Which is obvious; but here in MacRumors, we apparently have to remind people that your wants and needs are not universal.

I wore a helmet for 12 hours because the discomfort did not outweight the benefit. To me. You are a different person, with different wants and needs.

 

[Wizard_of_Woz]

Conceptually, you can see your cats spatially typing... which may give you pause.

I think you meant to say "which may give you paws" 🤣 I kill me!

 

[lovehateapple]

Wait, if you can only mirror the built in Mac screen, then what is even the point like wouldn’t you see the same thing without wearing a clunky thing on your head, just not as „big“? Or am I misunderstanding it.

Guess it also depends on what field you are working in but not once in my life did I think „damn, I wish my screen for work was bigger!“ and I used to do a lot of Excel and wrote my thesis on a 12 inch MacBook back in the day 😅 For me (personally) this „wish“ only applies when I consume entertainment media

My question is: if you can have multiple app windows open placed where ever you want in a 360° field of view and can switch between them just by looking at one, why would you need to mirror more than one display? Maybe I'm misunderstanding how the AVP works in this regard, but it seems to me the only limitation would be RAM? Won't know until it is released and I'm able to try one out in person.

The scenario I am describing seems like it would be similar to having multiple displays or spaces, and the only drawback is the 2D screen on a Mac might seem jumbled because app windows might be stacked on top of one another, but they wouldn't be in the virtual world on the AVP?

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

I don't doubt it will be impressive when you first try it out, but Apple are selling this as something you will want to wear all the time.

They are??? Where? Can you point me to ANY Apple marketing that implies this is a "wear all the time" product. Even in the WWDC demo, NONE of the Apple presenters were wearing one, nor have we seen Tim Cook & company in one at all since.

I lean positive on this product but I have ZERO expectation of using it much more than how I use a laptop now- which is mostly for travel and only in relatively short bursts. The longest possible wear time I can imagine is on a long flight where I want to get a lot of work done on a big screen and maybe watch a movie if I get the work done. But even in that scenario, I have to give my head a breather every 2 hours or so.

I foresee no world where lots of faces are lost from view because everyone is spending all of their time canceled inside this product. I doubt even the fanniest of fans will opt to "live" inside one.

... but I think practical reality will kick in and ultimately people will go back to using their traditional computers and displays after trying this out (the few that can afford it that is).

I foresee NO scenario where people are replacing traditional computers and displays with this product. Of course, they will continue to use traditional computers and displays as they do now, as owners of Vpro will when it is available to them, etc.

Your post reads like you imagine that this is intended to fully replace all computers & displays and I don't think ANYONE interested in this thinks that way. Instead, it's simply an additional bit of tech to use when one wants to use it and put away when other options are available that serves the person better.

 

[G5isAlive]

Convertibles and motorcycles are far from the majority of transportation vehicles exactly because of convenience and comfort, if you are swimming well then your hair is wet...duh? My point is that the comfort factor will be another hurdle the VP's have to overcome, and for many consumers it will be an issue. It doesn't even have to be about hair and makeup, ie sweat, pressure marks on the face, discomfort from the weight, claustrophobia, inability to see the outside world (no pass through isn't as good as full vision), etc. A more glasses-like package would have gone a long way towards this.

No one is suggesting the AVP is for the majority of users. Sure there are a variety of reasons that people will decide not to be a user. Apple doesn't need a majority of users for this to be a success. And sure a more glasses like package would be better, just like a hovercraft would be better than 4 wheels on my car, but the technology just isnt there yet. The AVP represents probably the best technology can do today.

and btw, have you used the AVP? How do you know pass through is not good enough? It doesnt have to the same as full vision, just good enough.

 

[spinedoc77]

Sure, just as you say, many people choose not to buy motorcycles or convertibles, or go skiing, or swimming. But many do. Motorcycles and ski goggle sell plenty well.

Sure point taken, no argument there. I'm not sure that I'd personally bet that most consumers will be ok with being uncomfortable, especially seeing the low uptake of VR in general, but I'll admit I'm not a $3 trillion company. I'm sure Google has pissed much more away in throwing stuff to the wall to see what sticks.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

Those are recreational things. Using this in a business setting will be different.

Do I have to spell out every single thing, or can your imagination help fill in some of the gaps?

Professional scuba divers wear masks because they get a benefit. Construction workers wear hard hats. Football players wear helmets. Welders wear masks. Musicians wear headphones.

It's not just recreational.

 

[Surf Monkey]

To be honest, I have only seen you use the word 'infinite.' Many have said it will maintain multiple viewing windows, and a few, maybe two, of us have suggested ways this could be improved on by selective focus, but no one has claimed infinite displays in any size.

Not unexpected that many would play ignorant once exposed as incorrect. “Infinite screens in infinite sizes” is not something I made up. It’s what people on these boards have been saying it can do since the announcement.