YouTuber Claims 15-Inch MacBook Pro With Upgraded Core i9 Chip is Severely Throttled Due to Thermal Issues

[jeremiah256]

So after reading 21 pages of this I have some thoughts.
I know a lot of people who have MacBook Pros. Not one of them is a "Pro". They might on a crazy day have 3 tabs open in Safari and open a excel spreadsheet. I would be willing to bet that THEY represent the majority of the MacBook Pro customers. These people could not throttle a laptop if they knew what that was and were to try. Apple of course knows this and are happy to take their money.

I was also thinking as I was reading this thread that we all are asking I think, for the impossible. We want faster and faster. We want to be able to do more of whatever it is we do. If we want to edit video we want to increase our videos resolution-the number of pixels we are pushing- to HD, then to 4K and now 8K. It's that way in every task area. We want to add GPU's to push more pixels. But what do we want to give up for this to happen. NOTHING. We expect more and more and do not understand that the laws of physics are just that-laws. There really is no free lunch.

Lastly, I think if we consider the above, as users we need to consider our roll in this, Sure having a powerful system in a 4 pound case that you can carry around is super convenient. Being able to carry it to where you are working is an advantage. But computer makers produce big large workstations for a reason. I have worked on Dell and HP workstations, where one of the heat sinks weighted more than 4 pounds. The top of the line HP workstation is liquid cooled and still has several fans. The cooling solution in that system weighs more than 4 pounds. Maybe the problem is not the system. Maybe it is that we have decided that for the advantages we want, we will use a system that was not really designed to do a task that we want it to do. I don't think the word "Pro" in Apple speak means what many think it means. In Apple's world in 2018, "Pro" means the top of the line. Not for Professionals. If I had to fault them, it would not be on these laptops. It would be that for their "Pro" customers that they don't truly offer ANY product anymore. Reasons for that exist too. But it is up to us to understand what we need to do with our systems and to pick the correct system for that job. That is not Apple's job-it is ours.

You are blaming the, for lack of another word, victim. Worst, you are falsely saying the victim asked for it. With the victim being professionals, I’d challenge you to find a thread on this or any Apple centric site where pros asked for thinner MacBook Pros. If anything, it’s been the opposite, with everyone begging Apple to add space. If Apple announced they were bringing back the 17” MBP, this forum would weep for joy.

Just as Apple users (and competition) forced Apple to finally give us larger phones, maybe this (if the excessive throttling is true) will make them slow down on their thinness obsession.

 

[Rogifan]

Possibly, I guess that also depends on the thermal solutions they use, Razer has some clever ideas and it’s machines are thin, but they also run hot with loud fans.
I think an i9 is really only ever going to comfortably work in a thick laptop giving it room to breath.

So maybe it’s not meant for laptops? People can say they want a thick and heavy laptop but I don’t really believe it.

 

[flat five]

regarding the video.. is that a quad out performing the 6core at extended multi-cpu tasks?

(in my case, it would be running preview renders prior to sending to cloud for finals)

 

[bkkcanuck8]

So maybe it’s not meant for laptops? People can say they want a thick and heavy laptop but I don’t really believe it.

I have 5 damaged vertebrae from heavy laptops while I was a road warrior (1999 to 2002).

 

[john123]

Not answering my post.

Why doesn't he make video about Microsoft outdated computers too?

He's anti-Apple, no doubt.



For what? I already know him for a long time.

I’m genuinely curious about something. Are you on the Apple payroll?

 

[dabocx]

The Razer blade 15 inch is only .05 of an inch thicker but they only opted to only offer the I7. They do have a 1060/1070 to deal with as well so maybe that's why they opted to not to offer the I9. I do not know any laptops this thin offering the I9.

 

[pl1984]

this is the same guy crying about apple not having a 6 core literally a week ago ... how ironic lmao

How so?

 

[Naimfan]

Or use it outside in a (Buffalo) New York winter!





It is not possible to claim the MBP is a "Pro" computer and then claim you can not use all professional software with it.



This is Apple's fault because Apple designed the chassis, the cooling system, and the CPU.

I am surprised that no one has tried putting Intel's 15W quad-core CPUs in a 45W chassis like the MBP. According to tests, Intel's U-series CPUs can maintain their top boost frequency on ALL four CPU cores in a chassis designed for a 45W TDP CPU. E.g. The 15W i7 8550 4C/8T CPU has a base clock of 1.8GHz and is configurable up to a base clock of 2.0GHz at 25W with Turbo Boosts going up to 4GHz @1C / 4GHz @2C / 3.7GHz @4C. Apple's 15" MBP should be able to sustain 3.7GHz on 4 cores given the chassis. Would this not perform better and have longer battery life than the currently throttled CPUs in the MBP?

I realize this would require Intel iGPUs; however the Iris Pro variants seem to run hot and if Apple is going to include dGPUs and push eGPUs then the issue is moot.



A four core i7 has completely different characteristics than a six core i9. The two don't compare.

Or use it outside in a (Buffalo) New York winter!





It is not possible to claim the MBP is a "Pro" computer and then claim you can not use all professional software with it.



This is Apple's fault because Apple designed the chassis, the cooling system, and the CPU.

I am surprised that no one has tried putting Intel's 15W quad-core CPUs in a 45W chassis like the MBP. According to tests, Intel's U-series CPUs can maintain their top boost frequency on ALL four CPU cores in a chassis designed for a 45W TDP CPU. E.g. The 15W i7 8550 4C/8T CPU has a base clock of 1.8GHz and is configurable up to a base clock of 2.0GHz at 25W with Turbo Boosts going up to 4GHz @1C / 4GHz @2C / 3.7GHz @4C. Apple's 15" MBP should be able to sustain 3.7GHz on 4 cores given the chassis. Would this not perform better and have longer battery life than the currently throttled CPUs in the MBP?

I realize this would require Intel iGPUs; however the Iris Pro variants seem to run hot and if Apple is going to include dGPUs and push eGPUs then the issue is moot.



A four core i7 has completely different characteristics than a six core i9. The two don't compare.

Yes, which is why my comparison machine is the new 6 core 2.6 i7, not the quad core you mistakenly assume.

 

[pl1984]

So maybe it’s not meant for laptops? People can say they want a thick and heavy laptop but I don’t really believe it.

Maybe it's not meant for thin laptops. No reason a laptop has to be as thin as the MBP. I have a 2012 15" rMBP and I have no complaints about its size / weight.

 

[juri-han]

How so?

bebareful for what you wish for, and who didnt see this coming? i posted on that video and said you would see massive TT if you stuck a coffee lake 6 core in the current macbook and look what happened

 

[Zdigital2015]

Some of it was that but most of it is wanting a machine that is somewhat future-proof especially when spending the same amount of money. They ended going with standard DDR4 so I'm pissed that they didn't just do this back in 2016 from the beginning. Had LPDDR4 been finally supported by Coffee Lake I wouldn't really care that much.

Judging by the fact that they had two revisions of the 15" TouchBar MacBook Pro (Skylake and Kaby Lake) with LPDDR3, I am convinced Apple believed that putting straight DDR4 RAM was a mistake for battery life, heat dissipation and the lack of specific LPDDR sleep states. The fact that they did finally capitulate and put DDR4 in the 15" MacBook Pro is at least a tacit acknowledgement of the petitioning from users who will truly benefit from 32GB and are fine with the battery hit they will take as a result. Leaving the 13" with LPDDR3 tells me they were loathe to make the change to DDR4 at all.

My beef with Intel is that the LPDDR 4 specification was released by JEDEC in late 2014, yet Intel has still not incorporated support for it in any of its mobile CPUs (outside of the Core i3-8121U), when it is clear they have gone back and added support for the higher bandwidth LPDDR3-2133 into their Kaby Lake mobile CPUs. Its not like these CPUs do not have any DDR4 support at all, as Skylake was the first architecture to support DDR4. I realize that it may be non-trivial to do this, but they already have it built-in to Cannon Lake. I am frustrated that they have completely ignored it in their 14nm+ and 14nm++ refreshes as well.

Given Intel's abysmal track record with respect to delivery dates since Broadwell, is it any wonder that Apple is thinking about moving to CPUs designed in-house? Intel does not seem to have a clue as to when 10nm will ship in quantity, and Apple may have grown weary of waiting for Intel come clean.

 

[pier]

I do graphic heavy work as well as coding.

Coding shouldn't be a problem unless you work with massive projects that take minutes to compile.

Graphic work, it depends.

Are we talking graphic design and photography? No problem here since sustain loads are rare.

For motion graphics, 3d, etc, that is another story. Render times will be hit by throttling.

 

[juri-han]

apple really needs to look into ryzen and zen2 once it goes 7nm you will see 8 and 12 cores that put out half the heat of a intel chip

 

[pl1984]

bebareful for what you wish for, and who didnt see this coming? i posted on that video and said you would see massive TT if you stuck a coffee lake 6 core in the current macbook and look what happened

Perhaps what he was wishing for was a six core processor in a package with cooling sufficient to allow it to operate at its potential?

IMO this is but one data point and we should withhold judgement on it. However I would not be surprised if more tests show a similar degradation in performance.

 

[OC40]

Whoa. The i9 was delivered today at 830am. It was scheduled for tomorrow. Too bad it’s going back...

 

[jjxt1]

Last week he was moaning about Apple not updating their macs to the latest chipset and the fact that he broke his iPhone X and doesn’t have Apple care plus.

This week he’s found something else to moan about.

So... people should not moan even if an older 4 core mbp out perform this newest & more expensive 6 core mbp?

 

[TimmeyCook]

I’m genuinely curious about something. Are you on the Apple payroll?

Yes I am.

Because there's no way people would like Apple unless they are on Apple's payroll!

In fact, I'm Tim Cook, or Phil Schiller, or both.

 

[juri-han]

Perhaps what he was wishing for was a six core processor in a package with cooling sufficient to allow it to operate at its potential?

IMO this is but one data point and we should withhold judgement on it. However I would not be surprised if more tests show a similar degradation in performance.

that was not going to happen apple did this as a rush job to play catchup they didnt even fix the keyboard witch they came out and admitted was broken, id love to see how much the 6 core i7 TTs

 

[Howard2k]

To be honest, this was to be expected. This isn't a new problem and it's not unique to Apple. It just looks really bad in this particular scenario because Apple dumped what borders on being a desktop class component into an ultra thin laptop chassis with two puny fans. People need to realize that super thin and light laptops aren't supposed to be desktop replacements for those who need to do work that keeps your CPU (or GPU) at max speed for more than brief moments of time. You can do it in a pinch if you have to be mobile for one reason or the other, which is great, but you'll have to live with the performance compromise while doing so. Same thing with gaming on a laptop. It's great to be able to lug a gaming capable machine over to a friend for a fun time together or if you need to be on the road for an extended period of time, but if you spend hours gaming at home every day, get a gaming desktop. It'll be a much better experience in the long run.

Anyway, you get the higher rated MacBook Pro CPU not for sustained workloads, but for short fast boosts of performance. Basically, to make the system feel snappier in use, not to have it grind through hours of video encoding and what not while you drink you coffee. That's the job of a desktop PC. Now, whether you can actually FEEL the top spec system being snappier compared to the base line, that's frankly a much more interesting question to me than throwing around benchmark scores. Problem is, this is very difficult to measure and highly subjective, which is why people resort to benchmarks or doing things like opening a gazillion apps and switching between them while having a stopwatch running.

My guess is that the added performance is not worth it though and if you absolutely want to spend that money, you're probably better off getting more RAM or storage, depending on your needs. Both will extend the usable life span of you device more than the added CPU performance. Once you run out of RAM, your performance is going to tank regardless of how good your CPU is and once you run out of storage, the CPU isn't going to help you there either. When the baseline is too slow for you though, I can guarantee you that the top end CPU is going to feel too slow as well. It's just going to feel slightly less painful to use. There's just not enough difference between them to make one feel useless and the other usable.

If the issue is that the CPU can't even maintain its base clock speed, then no, that's not "to be expected".

 

[Ziich]

According to him the i9 can't even maintain base clock speed for more than a couple minutes before succumbing to thermal throttling. I am curious about the other sku's in the fold. the 13 inch doubled the core count how quick is it to throttle? what of the other 15" i7's do those throttle as severely?

 

[jordanm86]

I wish I could think in real units. My brain is too used to the fake ones.

Do you have a guide you follow for doing this? I checked iFixit for my model and didn't see anything regarding thermal paste.

Hi,

I don't i'm afraid. I have a history of working with computers and the Late 2008 Unibody mac was one of the last generations where things were easy to fix (if you are tech savvy) - essentially you just remove parts until you reach the processor.

You may be able to find a complete assembly and disassembly guide and then could look for a generic youtube video on cleaning CPU's and applying fresh thermal paste? What Mac do you have?

 

[ronincse]

As others have pointed out: this is a single test with one piece of software from some random YouTuber. Yeah fine he has a lot of followers and talks in a calm soft voice...so? What are his qualifications other than being able to buy this crap and review it on YouTube? There is literally nothing about him that makes him an authority other than he makes decent videos. BTW this isn't an issue with Dave Lee in particular, this is an issue with almost everyone reviewing stuff on YouTube.

Besides that point: I'm curious what people are actually needing an i9 for anyways? From my experience the super high end Intel chips tend to just be for bragging rights as the price increase almost never justifies the extra price regardless of what kind of computer its going in. Anyone remember the Intel Extreme Editions?

 

[pl1984]

that was not going to happen apple did this as a rush job to play catchup they didnt even fix the keyboard witch they came out and admitted was broken, id love to see how much the 6 core i7 TTs

Perhaps not but that doesn't make his desire for a six core MBP any less valid and certainly not ironic.

 

[Howard2k]

According to him the i9 can't even maintain base clock speed for more than a couple minutes before succumbing to thermal throttling. I am curious about the other sku's in the fold. the 13 inch doubled the core count how quick is it to throttle? what of the other 15" i7's do those throttle as severely?

There are posts about the quad core 13" too. It's having challenges.

 

[GoodWheaties]

I didnt get any throttling during an after effects bench mark test both on single and multi core test. I think his i9 is iBroke.

Your CPU utilization is at about 20%. It’s not being stressed.

Edit:Never mind I’m way late.