YouTuber Claims 15-Inch MacBook Pro With Upgraded Core i9 Chip is Severely Throttled Due to Thermal Issues

[andym172]

I've just cancelled my i9 MBP order (32GB & 1TB) while I await clarification on the issues which appear to have been identified. I hope to be able to place a new order within the next week or so.

The ability to return a used (tested) product is a lot more difficult here in the UK than it appears to be in the US, and Apple's catch-all sentence on the product page ("enables the CPU to opportunistically turbo up to 4.8GHz when workloads and system thermals allow") it too open to interpretation for my liking.

For those asking why an i9 is required: I use my computer for photography and have an increasingly humungous library of RAW files which my 2013 15" MBP 2.3GHz i7 is struggling with.

 

[Faelan]

If the issue is that the CPU can't even maintain its base clock speed, then no, that's not "to be expected".

My mid-2014 I5 equipped 13" MacBook Pro with a base speed of 2.8GHz can't maintain that consistently when running Prime95 while sounding like a miniature jet engine and can only maintain roughly 3GHz when running a single Prime95 thread, which is .3GHz less than its supposed turbo boost of 3.3GHz. So this is not a new problem. It is always the safe bet to expect something if that has been the case for years. This -has- been the case for years. Is it a d*ck move by Apple and other laptop manufacturers to put a Ferrari engine in a very pretty Ford T chassis? Sure. But then return it and while doing so, let them know. At least they have a 2 week policy where you can test if your specific use case (we're all different) is negatively affected in such a way that it's not worth its price.

 

[Ploki]

So after reading 21 pages of this I have some thoughts.
I know a lot of people who have MacBook Pros. Not one of them is a "Pro". They might on a crazy day have 3 tabs open in Safari and open a excel spreadsheet. I would be willing to bet that THEY represent the majority of the MacBook Pro customers. These people could not throttle a laptop if they knew what that was and were to try. Apple of course knows this and are happy to take their money.

I was also thinking as I was reading this thread that we all are asking I think, for the impossible. We want faster and faster. We want to be able to do more of whatever it is we do. If we want to edit video we want to increase our videos resolution-the number of pixels we are pushing- to HD, then to 4K and now 8K. It's that way in every task area. We want to add GPU's to push more pixels. But what do we want to give up for this to happen. NOTHING. We expect more and more and do not understand that the laws of physics are just that-laws. There really is no free lunch.

Lastly, I think if we consider the above, as users we need to consider our roll in this, Sure having a powerful system in a 4 pound case that you can carry around is super convenient. Being able to carry it to where you are working is an advantage. But computer makers produce big large workstations for a reason. I have worked on Dell and HP workstations, where one of the heat sinks weighted more than 4 pounds. The top of the line HP workstation is liquid cooled and still has several fans. The cooling solution in that system weighs more than 4 pounds. Maybe the problem is not the system. Maybe it is that we have decided that for the advantages we want, we will use a system that was not really designed to do a task that we want it to do. I don't think the word "Pro" in Apple speak means what many think it means. In Apple's world in 2018, "Pro" means the top of the line. Not for Professionals. If I had to fault them, it would not be on these laptops. It would be that for their "Pro" customers that they don't truly offer ANY product anymore. Reasons for that exist too. But it is up to us to understand what we need to do with our systems and to pick the correct system for that job. That is not Apple's job-it is ours.

Apple doesn't have a waorkstation machine right now aside iMac Pro and MacBook Pro. I would buy a new Mac Pro in heart beat, but for 5k, ill buy something that a 5k laptop outperforms right now.
I don't want a giant 27" attached to it.

im out of options here and been waiting for either Mac Pro or MacBook Pro update, and the throttling fiasco is pissing me off.
[doublepost=1531924533][/doublepost]

I've just cancelled my i9 MBP order (32GB & 1TB) while I await clarification on the issues which appear to have been identified. I hope to be able to place a new order within the next week or so.

The ability to return a used (tested) product is a lot more difficult here in the UK than it appears to be in the US, and Apple's catch-all sentence on the product page ("enables the CPU to opportunistically turbo up to 4.8GHz when workloads and system thermals allow") it too open to interpretation for my liking.

For those asking why an i9 is required: I use my computer for photography and have an increasingly humungous library of RAW files which my 2013 15" MBP 2.3GHz i7 is struggling with.

i cant even order it yet here, but ive also been opting for i9.

This is frankly pissing me off.

 

[FloydPink28]

I like Dave2D, he knows what he's talking about and isn't a hype-based Youtube tech guy like pretty much all the other ones. His past couple of videos have confused me a little though. I know that, if this is actually an issue that can be verified by further testing, it's solely Apple's fault for not accommodating their design to a new CPU.
But he complains in a previous video about Apple not updating their CPU's for Intel's new one (even though updated machines in the market were already having throttling issues) but goes on to say that he loves their design and that they have the best out there. Now that the MBP is updated AND has the design that he loves he complains because of the thermal issues. I know it's not his problem to solve but it comes down to the laws of physics, Apple should have altered their design to mitigate this issue, if it is one. But one of Apple's biggest selling point has always been their industrial design, you can't eat your cake and have it too. Design is about trade-offs.

 

[macsrcool1234]

To be fair, this isn't so much Apple's fault as it is Intel's. Intel has really dropped the ball in the past couple of years. If they don't right the ship soon, AMD will take over the CPU game for a while. They are late with everything and are having lots of trouble shrinking the dies.

Unbelievable It's up to Apple to design a chassis capable of providing better cooling.

How do you people think this **** up?
[doublepost=1531925452][/doublepost]

Ah, but because some random guy on YouTube made the claim it is Mac Rumors front page news! LOL.

...the point is for other people to check the same things. That's why he made the video and literally said exactly what he did.

It's not that complicated.

 

[juri-han]

If the issue is that the CPU can't even maintain its base clock speed, then no, that's not "to be expected".

yeah not being able to maintain base cl

I like Dave2D, he knows what he's talking about and isn't a hype-based Youtube tech guy like pretty much all the other ones. His past couple of videos have confused me a little though. I know that, if this is actually an issue that can be verified by further testing, it's solely Apple's fault for not accommodating their design to a new CPU.
But he complains in a previous video about Apple not updating their CPU's for Intel's new one (even though updated machines in the market were already having throttling issues) but goes on to say that he loves their design and that they have the best out there. Now that the MBP is updated AND has the design that he loves he complains because of the thermal issues. I know it's not his problem to solve but it comes down to the laws of physics, Apple should have altered their design to mitigate this issue, if it is one. But one of Apple's biggest selling point has always been their industrial design, you can't eat your cake and have it too. Design is about trade-offs.

his last video he whined about the dell XPS 6 core doing the same thing, maybe someone will get a clue that maybe 6 core coffee lake cpus run to hot for a laptop.... id rather see them wait then do a total redesign, there is a reason that thinkpads with xeons are the size of a gaming PC

this is just a arms race intel rushed out 6 and soon 8 core or should i say rebranded xeons to play catchup to ryzen now all the laptop makers are doing the same just shoving them in to say LOOK MOR CORES! if apple wants to do it the right way they will switch to 7nm zen2 next year or stick with 4 cores till intel comes up with something actually new and not kaby lake with 2 cores tacked on or a rebranded xeon that will give 90% of the laptops on the market TT issues

 

[cm_junk]

Ah, but because some random guy on YouTube made the claim it is Mac Rumors front page news! LOL.

Throttling due to Apple's very purposeful design decisions has been an issue for years. I'm surprised it's taken this long for people to notice (or, at least, finally give it the attention it deserves).

 

[Howard2k]

I'd like to at least know his background, like did he do anything with computers before he started his YouTube channel a few years ago?

This very video is a good example of why he might not be qualified: he tested this with a single app, which he admits is very poorly designed for MacOS, against a Windows PC with a different CPU. There are in fact other Ultrabooks that use an i9, maybe he should test against one of those before claiming the Macbook Pro chassis is the issue and not the processor itself? What about using a benchmark suite and testing an i9 MBP against an i7 MBP? At least that would give us a better idea of the thermal issues. Or even using a program that is actually designed to run on the OS?

Nope all we get is a single benchmark using premiere compared against a Windows PC running a different processor with different specs and a totally different chassis. It does not give a useful comparison outside of fueling Apple hate.

No, none of that matters.

The issue appears to be that the i9 cannot maintain base clock speed. Whether he design the i9 himself from the ground up using toothpicks and a napkin, or whether he first used a computer last week, has no impact whatsoever on whether the i9 can maintain the base clock speed.

None of your post is relevant to that issue.

Not trying to "slam" you. Just pointing out that from my perspective, the issue is that the MBPro, apparently, cannot maintain the base clock rate under even modest loads.

It's also possible that this is incorrect and more testing will show that in many cases in can maintain the base clock. I think it's fair to say the jury is still out. But the results so far have been damning.

 

[macsrcool1234]

Would also like to point out my houses AC was blowing directly on to my MacBookPro when this test was performed.

Your test is meaningless.

 

[john123]

Yes I am.

Because there's no way people would like Apple unless they are on Apple's payroll!

In fact, I'm Tim Cook, or Phil Schiller, or both.

Seemed like a fair question to me. I'm not sure why anyone would rationally make factually incorrect claims in the interest of supporting their position unless they were being paid to do so.

Anyway, regardless of whether you're being compensated, one thing you might consider in your approach here is using a balanced perspective and even...gasp...recognizing that even the best companies make mistakes. People tend to grant more credibility to things someone says when they seem well considered (and supported by actual facts).

But hey. You do you!

 

[pl1984]

I like Dave2D, he knows what he's talking about and isn't a hype-based Youtube tech guy like pretty much all the other ones. His past couple of videos have confused me a little though. I know that, if this is actually an issue that can be verified by further testing, it's solely Apple's fault for not accommodating their design to a new CPU.
But he complains in a previous video about Apple not updating their CPU's for Intel's new one (even though updated machines in the market were already having throttling issues) but goes on to say that he loves their design and that they have the best out there. Now that the MBP is updated AND has the design that he loves he complains because of the thermal issues. I know it's not his problem to solve but it comes down to the laws of physics, Apple should have altered their design to mitigate this issue, if it is one. But one of Apple's biggest selling point has always been their industrial design, you can't eat your cake and have it too. Design is about trade-offs.

Industrial design does not mean thin at the cost of lost functionality. While the thinness of the current generation of MBP is nice I think it trades off too much performance for it.

 

[pl1984]

Throttling due to Apple's very purposeful design decisions has been an issue for years. I'm surprised it's taken this long for people to notice (or, at least, finally give it the attention it deserves).

Perhaps the difference is this time the top end part performs worse than the lower end parts due to this issue?

 

[epox999]

Not sure if people were expecting Macbooks to be able to withstand 100% CPU utilization for hours. If you were, then the past couple of generations have had the same issue.

But the problem is this isn't a Macbook, it's a Macbook Pro, it's supposed to be their top of the line product for the professional market

 

[Howard2k]

My mid-2014 I5 equipped 13" MacBook Pro with a base speed of 2.8GHz can't maintain that consistently when running Prime95 while sounding like a miniature jet engine and can only maintain roughly 3GHz when running a single Prime95 thread, which is .3GHz less than its supposed turbo boost of 3.3GHz. So this is not a new problem. It is always the safe bet to expect something if that has been the case for years. This -has- been the case for years. Is it a d*ck move by Apple and other laptop manufacturers to put a Ferrari engine in a very pretty Ford T chassis? Sure. But then return it and while doing so, let them know. At least they have a 2 week policy where you can test if your specific use case (we're all different) is negatively affected in such a way that it's not worth its price.

Just for laughs, last night I had my 2015 i5 13" running full utilization for an extended period of time. I was watching a 720p video in VLC, while encoding movies in iMovie.

There was no problem maintaining >3GHz. My base clock is 2.7GHz.

This was at least 15 minutes at max CPU, and still above base clock speed.

So your 2014 experience is way different to my 2015 experience.

I was on battery last night which from a thermal perspective may have some impact. I'm on power now, and fully charged.

I'm going to download Prime95 now I'll run it at 100% for 10 minutes and let you know how I get on.

Is running for 10 minutes at turbo and then throttling down to base clock ok? What about 15 minutes? 30 minutes? What about 30 seconds? Again, that's different to the CPU having to drop BELOW the base clock, which is what you're describing and what appears to be happening to the new MBPro.

 

[drlunanerd]

The ability to return a used (tested) product is a lot more difficult here in the UK than it appears to be in the US

Not sure what you mean by this? Apple give you a no quibble 14 day return period in the UK (in practice up to 28 days).

Why not test the i9 out with your RAW processing jobs and let us know how you got on? That would be a good real-world test.

 

[TimmeyCook]

Seemed like a fair question to me. I'm not sure why anyone would rationally make factually incorrect claims in the interest of supporting their position unless they were being paid to do so.

Anyway, regardless of whether you're being compensated, one thing you might consider in your approach here is using a balanced perspective and even...gasp...recognizing that even the best companies make mistakes. People tend to grant more credibility to things someone says when they seem well considered (and supported by actual facts).

But hey. You do you!

By "balanced perspective" you mean "eat any sh-- YouTuber or the press makes up about Apple".

Seriously, go live in your bubble.

 

[Blaze4G]

I like Dave2D, he knows what he's talking about and isn't a hype-based Youtube tech guy like pretty much all the other ones. His past couple of videos have confused me a little though. I know that, if this is actually an issue that can be verified by further testing, it's solely Apple's fault for not accommodating their design to a new CPU.
But he complains in a previous video about Apple not updating their CPU's for Intel's new one (even though updated machines in the market were already having throttling issues) but goes on to say that he loves their design and that they have the best out there. Now that the MBP is updated AND has the design that he loves he complains because of the thermal issues. I know it's not his problem to solve but it comes down to the laws of physics, Apple should have altered their design to mitigate this issue, if it is one. But one of Apple's biggest selling point has always been their industrial design, you can't eat your cake and have it too. Design is about trade-offs.

Why do people want upgraded processors? To be more efficient no? So what are you confused by with Dave's statement? If performance is not improved cause of throttling issues then obviously it doesn't make anything better. He and many thought that Apple would find a way to design the laptop so it would not have thermal issues.

 

[marty11]

Really hoping there's an explanation, because if true this is next level incompetence, or more likely Apple patching their design errors. And there's a few of those already.

Hard times to be a Mac user.

 

[Howard2k]

Just for laughs, last night I had my 2015 i5 13" running full utilization for an extended period of time. I was watching a 720p video in VLC, while encoding movies in iMovie.

There was no problem maintaining >3GHz. My base clock is 2.7GHz.

This was at least 15 minutes at max CPU, and still above base clock speed.

So your 2014 experience is way different to my 2015 experience.

I was on battery last night which from a thermal perspective may have some impact. I'm on power now, and fully charged.

I'm going to download Prime95 now I'll run it at 100% for 10 minutes and let you know how I get on.

Is running for 10 minutes at turbo and then throttling down to base clock ok? What about 15 minutes? 30 minutes? What about 30 seconds? Again, that's different to the CPU having to drop BELOW the base clock, which is what you're describing and what appears to be happening to the new MBPro.

4 minutes in, still at about 3GHz.

 

[Baymowe335]

So all you Tesla fans.

Guess what happens when you use launch control multiple times? The car locks you out of running the electric motors at full potential and you can't use launch control until the components cool down.

I think there is a gray area here that is hard to define. I can't think of any device that is designed to run at 100% capacity 100% of the time without any repercussions. If it did, it would probably break prematurely.
[doublepost=1531926726][/doublepost]

If you did some homework, you'd know the answer here.

If you have any video editing software, scrub the timeline while a clip is getting rendered into cache. Do this in Final Cut, Adobe Premiere, Avid, etc. Observe the CPU in your Activity Monitor or Task Manager in your respective OS. Try to do things while this is happening.

The only "optimization" that can occur during rendering is delaying completion of rendering ... which is what most (if not all) people don't desire when they are working with videos.

I believe you think you're smarter than you are.

 

[Howard2k]

4 minutes in, still at about 3GHz.

7.5 minutes in. Still humming at 3.1GHz.

 

[ronincse]

No, none of that matters.

The issue appears to be that the i9 cannot maintain base clock speed. Whether he design the i9 himself from the ground up using toothpicks and a napkin, or whether he first used a computer last week, has no impact whatsoever on whether the i9 can maintain the base clock speed.

None of your post is relevant to that issue.

Not trying to "slam" you. Just pointing out that from my perspective, the issue is that the MBPro, apparently, cannot maintain the base clock rate under even modest loads.

It's also possible that this is incorrect and more testing will show that in many cases in can maintain the base clock. I think it's fair to say the jury is still out. But the results so far have been damning.

I'm pointing out that his "test" is meaningless, how is that not relevant to the issue?

 

[harpin14789]

Will the bad PR ever end? Apple has been facing a lot of issues recently.

Well, Apple will stop getting bad when they get their stuff together and actually make better products and stand behind them.

The butterfly keyboard is a horrible keyboard and has horrible design which causes it to fail quite a lot. But apple denies any of the issues till they get a class action lawsuit. That's when they get bad PR, if they actually do their R&D and do testing and fix their issues, Apple will stop getting sooo much of the bad PR.

Now about the thermal throttling of the i9 chips in the mbp is a fact. Apple has horrible fan curves, fans don't turn on till 85C. The chips literally cook themselves inside the chassis, this greatly reduces the life of the chip.

I don't get why the so called fans of Apple blindly defend Apple and their ****** engineering choices. I am a fan of Apple bur it's so annoying when they don't care about their customers and they put out ****** products with horrible thermal design. If apple does something wrong like, I will criticize it.
Apple has been progressively been getting worse and worse, the company doesn't even care anymore. When you pack so much power into such a small chassis, of course it's going to heavily thermal throttle, and then they have their ****** fan curve that adds to the problem.

Sorry, just had to vent a little bit.

 

[juri-han]

Why do people want upgraded processors? To be more efficient no? So what are you confused by with Dave's statement? If performance is not improved cause of throttling issues then obviously it doesn't make anything better. He and many thought that Apple would find a way to design the laptop so it would not have thermal issues.

why would you change your design for a chip that runs to hot and should not be in a laptop? ...... thats a giant waste of time and money, they never should of put the i9 inside in the first place and still waiting to see how the 6 core i7 runs

all of the current new intel chips run hot even in desktops you need to delid them and have major cooling to get a stable overclock lmao

 

[DanBig]

To be fair, this isn't so much Apple's fault as it is Intel's. Intel has really dropped the ball in the past couple of years. If they don't right the ship soon, AMD will take over the CPU game for a while. They are late with everything and are having lots of trouble shrinking the dies.

While Intel has slipped, the issue here is 100% Apples! This just points out the limits of the 'Thin is In' movement in Apple where they should have a real Pro's series using the older Unibody frame which would give them the needed space to make a real cooling system this CPU needs! As well as future high powered CPU's.

Fat is In Tim, Fat is In!

Besides the real working pro's would love to see a 17" with a 4 or 5K display with a still better GPU pushing it! I would!