People don't like the iPod just because Apple created it. By your logic, that would mean everyone who buys an iPod is biased towards Apple, that's a lot of people. A lot of people who own iPod's also own Windows based systems, they just prefer the iPod. As there are millions more individuals who own and use iPods, by logic there are more individuals who use/operates Windows based systems that do not like Microsoft's Zune and prefer the iPod. To blithely dismiss the general publics opinions as well as the reviews on Zune's as biased Apple "fanboy's" is just as misinformed as the zealots on the Apple side that dismiss the Zune as it's made by Microsoft. Do not assume that everyone on MacRumors or that all Apple OS X/iPod owners are Apple fanatics.
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Zune HD
- Thread starter gan6660
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People don't like the iPod just because Apple created it. By your logic, that would mean everyone who buys an iPod is biased towards Apple, that's a lot of people. A lot of people who own iPod's also own Windows based systems, they just prefer the iPod. As there are millions more individuals who own and use iPods, by logic there are more individuals who use/operates Windows based systems that do not like Microsoft's Zune and prefer the iPod. To blithely dismiss the general publics opinions as well as the reviews on Zune's as biased Apple "fanboy's" is just as misinformed as the zealots on the Apple side that dismiss the Zune as it's made by Microsoft. Do not assume that everyone on MacRumors or that all Apple OS X/iPod owners are Apple fanatics.
Point taken. It'll be interesting to see how the new one compares/competes. I'm not quite that optimistic, but that's just me thinking of my own experience with the last one. I'll have to have it in my hands to really know for sure.
I am new to this forum and I haven't seen a constructive post from you yet.
If we are talking features based as "better" the iPod classic would be near the bottom of the list sorry to say. (zune would be near as well, but still higher than the iPod).
So i'd like to know how MS copied Apple on the iPod. Perhaps you shall make me rescind my previous belief on your posting style (but as of now it seems rather aggressive and misinformed). Cause as far as I know, Apple doesn't offer a subscription based model, doesn't have a social aspect to the iPods, and they most certainly don't have wifi in their classic.
So again, please bestow your wisdom upon this newbie.
Wait you are telling me your posts are constructive cause you praise the zune and mine areen't and then you stll want me to enlighten you?
Bestow my wisdom then I shall. First of all it's great how you dodge the multitude of times ms has copied apple. Secondly read more carefully what I said,
]
And I did mention all the brands that they copied from after entering the market, two frigging centuries after everyone had already released not one but hundreds of mp3 players. Enter the great copier, lurking and copying every mp3 player coming out, MS to copy from everyone as per usual and still get their as ses handed to them by being lower than almost everyone despite their leverage. I wont go into specific details on what they copied from apple, suffice to say the whole ipod concept first an foremost.
Btw, you got some gal saying the features of the ipod classic are at the bottom of the list when a product has 71% marketshare...
You also keep dodging how with a 95% marketshare in pcs you would think that if they had such a great product too in the mp3 player arena they would have something over than 4% based solely on their pc market dominance and the fact that mp3 players are not standalone devices but they connect to 95% ms pcs, yet they have even managed to get their as ses kicked by even sandisk solely on their merit of being a flash manufacturer, with them almost triple outselling the sub par ms product. A flash manufacturer can make better, more stylish, more ui intuitive products than the poor guys at Microsoft...now that is what I call pathetic. Hey Balmer how is your top notch 30+ years in the bussiness guys doing...oh we are just getting hammered by some korean (?) guys who make ram on user interface and software, they out triple sale us..hahahah...funny stuff...
The zune guy pretty much sums up ms's sub par device. -in all seriousness, I consider it highly symbolic- :
Happy to enlighten you.
And please guys tell me, can anyone, ANYONE, come up with a less inspiring, more generic, more unimaginative and trite logo than the zune trademark icon as pictured on the zune guys arm and on the zunes? Isn't this in all honesty one of the worst trite garbage logos you have ever seen...I ve seen more inspired trademarks at mom and pap utility stores for crying out loud...
Wait you are telling me your posts are constructive cause you praise the zune and mine areen't and then you stll want me to enlighten you?
Bestow my wisdom then I shall. First of all it's great how you dodge the multitude of times ms has copied apple. Secondly read more carefully what I said,
]
And I did mention all the brands that they copied from after entering the market, two frigging centuries after everyone had already released not one but hundreds of mp3 players. Enter the great copier, lurking and copying every mp3 player coming out, MS to copy from everyone as per usual and still get their as ses handed to them by being lower than almost everyone despite their leverage. I wont go into specific details on what they copied from apple, suffice to say the whole ipod concept first an foremost.
Btw, you got some gal saying the features of the ipod classic are at the bottom of the list when a product has 71% marketshare...
You also keep dodging how with a 95% marketshare in pcs you would think that if they had such a great product too in the mp3 player arena they would have something over than 4% based solely on their pc market dominance and the fact that mp3 players are not standalone devices but they connect to 95% ms pcs, yet they have even managed to get their as ses kicked by even sandisk solely on their merit of being a flash manufacturer, with them almost triple outselling the sub par ms product. A flash manufacturer can make better, more stylish, more ui intuitive products than the poor guys at Microsoft...now that is what I call pathetic. Hey Balmer how is your top notch 30+ years in the bussiness guys doing...oh we are just getting hammered by some korean (?) guys who make ram on user interface and software, they out triple sale us..hahahah...funny stuff...
The zune guy pretty much sums up ms's sub par device. -in all seriousness, I consider it highly symbolic- :
Happy to enlighten you.
You haven't' answered my iPod/Zune comparisons.
I asked what specifically has MS copied from iPod?
I couldn't care less about anything else you wrote. (tho nice wall of text).
And when did i "praise" the zune? I just said its a good MP3 player (that I actually use and not oging off of hearsay)
And um yes the feature list is near the bottom....are you serious right now?
Feature for feature the Zune has more than the iPod classic. Seriously, prove me wrong? I'm not arguing market share cause there is nothing to argue.
You need to relax a bit. My aggressive comment was just proven correct.
Thanks.
You are not the sharpest knife in the drawer there are you? Yeah ok, re-read my post, and take it easy, cause I am lmao here and pulling jokes while you seem to be dragging a single non argument ad infinitum. Ms copied everyone in the bussiness and above all apple who had the original great implementation and hence the 71% marketshare, they..wait you are not making me rewrite this cause you refer to my post as wall of text. Re-read it.
So you are telling me they copied Apple by making a MP3 player?
Is that REALLY what you are saying?
So did Apple copy the first mp3 players? No of course not, thats dumb to say.
They jsut added to an already good idea, as I think MS did, as I think any good company does.
You clearly though just see Microsoft as a copycat company and I can't change that view in you, so I won't try.
applecultvictim: honestly, regardless of what Apple or MS have done, you've done little but say, "MS copied Apple," without saying why. Maybe the did, maybe they didn't, but you aren't providing any evidence except opinion.
DougB541: features aren't everything. It doesn't matter how many features you have if they aren't implemented well. Apple (IMO) has a better interface for their features, even if they don't have as many.
DougB541: features aren't everything. It doesn't matter how many features you have if they aren't implemented well. Apple (IMO) has a better interface for their features, even if they don't have as many.
The Zune was a few years late to the party and on top of that, what did it offer that wasn't already offered by just everyone else ? Why should a buyer buy a Zune over a iPod or a Nomad or any other well established brands ?
That's the thing, when entering a market, you need an actual reason for people to buy you over the established competition. You need to bring something to the table.
That's the thing, when entering a market, you need an actual reason for people to buy you over the established competition. You need to bring something to the table.
I don't think apple can be credited with inventing the MP3 player, or putting it in any sort of form factor. They dont have a monopoly on various rectangular prism form factors for gadgets.
Unfair business practices, monopoly abuse and vendor lock-in, to name some few.
Get excited about the Zune HD... um, no...
Getting excited about the Zune HD would be tantamount to getting excited about an Edsel with a turbo. Functional yes, even "not bad" perhaps, but UGGGLLEEE (still....)
Getting excited about the Zune HD would be tantamount to getting excited about an Edsel with a turbo. Functional yes, even "not bad" perhaps, but UGGGLLEEE (still....)
Eh only brought it up as applecultvictim thought otherwise for some odd reason. I'm quite aware its not everything. But gracias for peace making a bit.
What did Apple invent "all on their own?" I'm not trying to turn this into a Mac vs. PC debate.
But remove "microsoft" from Zune and then realize how is this news article a bad thing? Like some have said, Apple will prob. have a similar update with a faux HD screen....be happy everyone.
I'm outta here, I just originally wanted to give my view on the Zune and it took a wrong turn.
A sucker born every minute, eh? Maybe you'd like to check out MacRumors' "Shuffle contains only $22 in parts". Oh, but it's Saintly Apple we're talking about here; so it's cool.
If you think it was Bill Gates who said it first (or at all!), then you seriously have issues.Apple isn't trying to be cool, eh? Maybe you haven't see their "Hello, I am a PC, and I am an Apple" ad.
So no other company other than Apple is allowed to create a "cool" website to sell their wares? Both Microsoft and Apple started decades ago, but it's only Microsoft that's in a midlife crisis mode, according to you?
A sucker born every minute, eh? Maybe you'd like to check out MacRumors' "Shuffle contains only $22 in parts". Oh, but it's Saintly Apple we're talking about here; so it's cool.
What do you mean only $22 in parts? You are making it sound as if it's a $1000 item that's only $22 in parts. At $79 the $22 in parts is a decent price all things considered.
You're right. It's fair. So if it were a generic MP3 shuffle-like product made and sold at similar amounts, there be no need to cry "bandits!". But, I have a feeling if you showed the breakdown of the cost of a Zune parts and what it's sold for, there would be some here crying "bandits!".
I'd say Apple changed the way the industry views and use PMPs. Because the PMPs then were "big and clunky or small and useless", Apple made one of the first mass marketed PMP with lots of storage and deck-of-cards form factor; the iPod is one of the first to use the 1.8" HDD, and other HDD based PMPs were quick to follow (the 1.8" form factor let the PMP take on that small, "deck of cards" rectangular prism that is so common today). Apple also invented the use of the clickwheel for the iPod mini, which delivered the minimalist, but powerful interface that is so famous among the iPods today.
As for what the Zune copied from the iPod, it's the small, deck-of-cards form factor, storage size (basically same kind of HDD), similar minimalistic user interface, fast scrolling (ie if you scroll faster you'll start scrolling by letters, etc.), list goes on. (And Apple innovates them, or implements them, while Microsoft copies them.)
Yes, Zune is not the only one who copies Apple, or any other industry leaders, but it's the one who copies the most, which should be the opposite because Microsoft can and have invested so much $$$ in R&D... —And there's nothing wrong with copying; as long as you can create original things, but Microsoft have shown in the past that it is not able to do innovate—or at least, innovate to help it's customers, not annoy them (hello UAC)...
If you want to know what ideas Microsoft took if they created this Zune HD, you might like to read this post.
Ah, they did; Zune-to-zune sharing over wifi (AMAZING!!!), radio (Not first mass implementation either, but AMAZING!!! Beats iPods!!! ... /sarc)
Um.. have you heard of a PMP with lots of storage and in a "deck-of-cards" form factor before the iPod? I don't think so.
lol. I couldn't have said it any better.Actually if you did everything from mining the metals to applying the finishes (don't know how you can do that, don't ask), it costs $0.
(what about the cost of manufacturing an Windows XP CD? probably ~5¢....)
You are right, there would be, I am more tolerant of apple but that's because they have (far from always of course) been much better to me than ms has in terms of their innovation, system stability, user interface, looks, and even prices. I am more tolerant to them than I would be to the ms type of lying, copying, unimaginative design, stronghold monopoly, system instability etc. etc. Wouldn't you be more tolerant too?
Btw, can I pm you wrt your sig?
@wikinerd, amen brother.
As of September last year, Apple had sold 173 million iPods... (not saying it's not spectacular, but it pales in comparison...)
Also I've seen quite a few incidences where Microsoft "gives away" Zunes as part of "sponsoring" a competition... I wonder if these numbers are counted towards the 2 million..
Well since you're ditching out around the same amount of money anyway, why not buy one that is famous, the original, one with a powerful, easy to learn, easy to use, efficient user interface (yes, Microsoft tried to copy it, but like Vista and 7, didn't get it quite right), with technical support well-known across the industry, as well as one that works with one of the better media apps out there (imho, Windows Media Player sucks in comparison to anything except RealPlayer...)?
Ah. There is a difference between "cool" and "trying to be cool" in almost everyone's opinion, Apple was the cool one; Microsoft, not so popular. Even Bill Gates said that Steve Jobs, and the company that he leads, has great taste, elegance, etc. (4:23 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5Z7eal4uXI)
And for websites, Apple's website is easy to use, easily navigable, while not copying from others. Microsoft's website (made of ASP's, which stinks in terms of standards...) is not easily navigable, has multiple parts which does not really link to each other, and styles that are different in almost every page; steep learning curve for the user who only goes there occasionally...
Flash memory almost always comes in these particular increments:
8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1,024...
There will be a 64 GB touch first, followed by a 128.
The 160 GB was huge and thick, so Apple decided to replace it with the slightly smaller capacity 120 GB that is exactly the same thickness as the previous 80 GB. The 80 GB classic was my first iPod, and when I eventually had to replace it with the 120, I could still use the same protective cases I had for my 80 GB.
I believe the person who decided that is the same one pictured in my avatar.
Sehnsucht, no offense, but you should've started from 1, 2, 4,... makes it less confusing. These are powers of two for anyone who haven't noticed .
2^0=1
2^1=2
2^2=4
2^3=8
...
2^10=1024
As for the 160/80—>120GB, it's for quite a few reasons. Previously, the two versions of the iPod means that for one of the versions, there is 1 platter within that 1.8" HDD, and the other, two platters. When Apple was developing the current generation of Classic, there is only the 120GB single platter; the two-platter HDDs didn't come out in time—the 240GB 1.8" HDDs is only announced the day the current Classic is introduced. Apart from that, 2 platters mean less reliability, more space, more weight, less performance, etc.; translates to more complaints, unhappy customers, and a smeared brand name. Anyhow, who's music library is big enough to fit all 240GB of the iPod? Not everyone; less of a market. And finally aesthetics; would the 160GB iPod fit nicely into your pocket? Not really. Thus, it's the 120GB for now, which replaced the 80GB.
(As for the people asking why not put a 200GB or 160GB in, would you be satisfied with an update that is so... Minimal? People would say that Apple's slacking off, not making enough progress...)
(woot 500th post if you dont count the news bot post.)
See this is what I mean (not attacking you) but this tells me you haven't used a Zune....the Zune no longer uses a re skinned version of WMP (which sucks for audio I agree, but is a damn versatile video player with the right codecs).
The Zune software is very functional and didn't try to copy iTunes (seriously, check out a video or something, it doesn't look like an MS product at all).
And if you think the Zune UI copied the iPod....i def. don't believe you've tried it. ALso add to the fact the Zune supports more media file types than the iPod its another thing I enjoy about my Zune.
All i'm saying, some people should give it an honest look before just dismissing it as "Microsoft copying apple."
Some would be pleasantly surprised (not converts but I doubt many of you would be implying this hate for a device I am not convinced many of you have tried.)
Take a read at CNET's 120gig Zune review. (and if that is bias or something look at any reviews, majority have put this right up there with the iPod classic....take a look at the original Zune and see how much is was ridiculed comparatively.
http://reviews.cnet.com/mp3-players...third/4505-6490_7-33259222.html?tag=mncol;txt
(i personally have the Zune80 but they are close enough).