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2007 Harpertown Stoakley-Seaburg Motherboard With New Graphics Cards 8-Core Mac Pro
- Thread starter Multimedia
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waiting
alright, multimedia - you got me.
i'm putting my 8-core 'frankenmac' as you call it - on hold. i canceled my order this morning...
so, i'm still stuck with my dell for a little longer i guess...
it hurts; but i don't want to get burned a month after i buy this machine - and $4300 is a lot to drop on something that has 1-year old guts.
DZL.
alright, multimedia - you got me.
i'm putting my 8-core 'frankenmac' as you call it - on hold. i canceled my order this morning...
so, i'm still stuck with my dell for a little longer i guess...
it hurts; but i don't want to get burned a month after i buy this machine - and $4300 is a lot to drop on something that has 1-year old guts.
DZL.
Waiting is a fools errand, updates are probably five months away, if not longer. If you need a system, get it now.
not according to what i've read -- i can upgrade my dell with more RAM to get me through the waiting period... like i said: i'm not going to drop $4300 on a machine that hasn't really been upgraded since Jan 06.
price drops for the intel chips are set for late this month - we'll see what apple does then.
i hear ya - i'm in the same spot... i use my machine for freelance work; but the question i always come back to is: do i need the mac pro right now? or can i work smart, and wait for the upgraded (read: 2007 tech!) mac pro?
the answer is 'not really' to the 1st question, and 'yes' to the 2nd.
also, when a client tells me 'it's just the 'tip of the iceberg'; 90% of the time, it's BS... it's to get you to rush a job, or to take a job at a lesser rate.
there is that other 10% though...
Five months??? you must be mistaken. If that's true, that would mean the Mac Pro won't be updated for 16 months. Not likely. And before someone comes along and chimes in that the 8-core addition was an update - it was NOT. It's an option. Come August the Mac Pro will be a year old, with no updates except for the 8-core "option".
it's starting to look a wee bit like the bad od days of motosuck and their waiting 12 months for a 50mhz speed bump
then again , we had ati and their crappy 128 cards for YEARS
oh darn
then again , we had ati and their crappy 128 cards for YEARS
oh darn
Not regretting my purchase one bit. The Mac Pro is awesome so far! I've crunched through so much media which was backlogged and this Mac takes it without a slouch. I love having four cores, and this screen is indescribable. I'm so glad I went for this machine 
I don't quite look at it like that. Motorola and IBM really did suck big time.
If, and I say IF Apple is waiting for Stoakley/Seaburg/Harpertown then that will be a significant update.
We certainly get stuck with ATI cards for years.
I'll be happy to have ATI's Radeon HD 2900 XT card, but I'd rather have an nVidia 8800 series card.
I don't think ATI's drivers are optimized for OpenGL.
I saw a quote the other day that got me irritated:
ATI's Phil Rogers says, "The new OpenGL driver has been designed from the ground up for Windows Vista, Windows XP and Linux."
I don't see OS X mentioned there anywhere.
I've had mine a few days , and tbh , it's not THAT amazing .
I had an iMac Dual Core and that was almost as fast at most of the stuff I do , plus this things noisier , gives out a lot of heat and Safari seems to crash a lot , oh and the hard disk makes a racket too.
I tried Doom 3 & COD2 on it and they weren't exactly mind blowing either , so I plugged in my PS3 and played Resistance Fall of man , now THAT'S what I call an FPS.
Plus points are the USB sockets on the front ,and err..
I had an iMac Dual Core and that was almost as fast at most of the stuff I do , plus this things noisier , gives out a lot of heat and Safari seems to crash a lot , oh and the hard disk makes a racket too.
I tried Doom 3 & COD2 on it and they weren't exactly mind blowing either , so I plugged in my PS3 and played Resistance Fall of man , now THAT'S what I call an FPS.
Plus points are the USB sockets on the front ,and err..
Stoakley-Seaburg Not Shipping 'Til Q4 2007? Maybe 2H 2007.
Note that Stoakley includes the option to use PCI Express 2.0.
Here's a newer article that gives a brief Stoakley-Seaburg overview.
This article says 2H 2007 - scroll down to near the end - so maybe it's not too far out to still get what we want by September-October. October would be the beginning of Q4. So maybe we'll just have to wait 'til it all ships with Leopard after all.
And could the Cranberry Lake Platform-San Clemente Chipset be in the next Mac Pro with DDR2 RAM instead?
So I wrote Intel PR the question of when Stoakley is shipping and this is their reply:
Also note the next Intel Developer Forum is in San Francisco September 18-20 on the eve of the Paris Apple Expo September 25-29 - both excellent forums for Apple to announce something new.
Here are diagrams of all three of Intel's Dual or Quad Socket for Quad Core processors logicboard architectures for the end of this year.
Figure 3: Intel Caneland Platform/Clarksboro chipset with 4 Tigerton processors (Q3 2007).
Figure 4: Intel Stoakley platform/Seaburg chipset (est. 2H 2007).
Figure 5: Cranberry Lake platform with San Clemente chipset (est. 3Q 2007).
LOL. Recently read - then misplaced the page - a piece that said the Stoakley platform/Seaburg chipset won't be available until Q4 2007. So now I am less sure about how much longer we'll have to wait. Can anyone confirm or deny this "intel" on Intel's Stoakley delays?
Note that Stoakley includes the option to use PCI Express 2.0.
Here's a newer article that gives a brief Stoakley-Seaburg overview.
This article says 2H 2007 - scroll down to near the end - so maybe it's not too far out to still get what we want by September-October. October would be the beginning of Q4. So maybe we'll just have to wait 'til it all ships with Leopard after all.
And could the Cranberry Lake Platform-San Clemente Chipset be in the next Mac Pro with DDR2 RAM instead?
So I wrote Intel PR the question of when Stoakley is shipping and this is their reply:
Also note the next Intel Developer Forum is in San Francisco September 18-20 on the eve of the Paris Apple Expo September 25-29 - both excellent forums for Apple to announce something new.
Here are diagrams of all three of Intel's Dual or Quad Socket for Quad Core processors logicboard architectures for the end of this year.
In that case I see the 4 socket 16 core option an unlikely scenario.
Figure 3: Intel Caneland Platform/Clarksboro chipset with 4 Tigerton processors (Q3 2007).
Figure 4: Intel Stoakley platform/Seaburg chipset (est. 2H 2007).
Figure 5: Cranberry Lake platform with San Clemente chipset (est. 3Q 2007).
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I bought myself a cheap powermac g4 to hold me over til the update. I can do papers and stuff on it til then. It will suck to be doing my projects on such a wimpy machine but it is worth the wait
I am camped and ready to go.
Hey, those g4 powermacs are still powerful machines if you know how to use them!
I'm anxiously awaiting the updates soon but I won't hold my breath for anytime soon.
Such A Deal
Some kid was trying to sell a 500GHz/128MB/30GB G3 iMac DV Special Edition at a garage sale for $70 a couple of weeks ago. I offered him $20 and he thought I was nuts. Looks like I offered him too much.
What a STEAL.Dual 500 for $75
Some kid was trying to sell a 500GHz/128MB/30GB G3 iMac DV Special Edition at a garage sale for $70 a couple of weeks ago. I offered him $20 and he thought I was nuts. Looks like I offered him too much.
I'll chalk that up to 'bad intel' because to my knowledge based on data I can neither confirm nor deny roadmaps as old as Jan 2006 have never showed a promise of Jan 2007.
That same intel led you to believe something about 'frankenmac'. Hate to burst your bubble but harpertown is an MCM (no idea why it isn't on the english page, but its there on the spanish wiki page)
I came back to this thread after Multimedia posted in a recent thread on the current Mac Pro being overpriced. I hasten to add Multimedias post was purely pointing back to this thread
I'm a firm believer in technology moving forward but not everything is as big as it is made out to be. Santa Rosa is a prime example. I bought a new MB Pro after the updates but if you take out the GPU update and the LED screen the differences are practically none existent. Searching old threads you see huge claims about how Robson Caching (or what ever it is called today) will add hours to battery life and will be a huge performance boost. People waited and waited and sure enough Apple never used it. Fact is, it has become a white elephant. It isn't that fast and battery life isn't hugely extended. Cost is also prohibitive.
Seaburg and other architectural changes will no doubt see the Mac Pro move to the next level but anyone thinking this is going to be like the move from Netburst to Core is dreaming. Until Intel adopts on chip memory controllers like AMD sometime in 2008 memory bottlenecks will handicap 8 core or higher systems. The move away from fully buffered memory is good both from cost and latency perspectives though but also might not be used at this stage.
The new machines will be great for rendering but for daily tasks I just cannot see the huge speed increases people are expecting. New GPUs are a must but they will not be PCI-E 2.0 so older Mac Pro's can utilise them as well. This is an evolutionary not revolutionary step. Another huge stumbling block is software, even if 10.5 has better thread managements other apps will not necessarily. Photoshop CS3 is a good example, by the time CS4 arrives the next gen Macs will be history. Apple software is as bad, even on a Quad core machine Compressor never fully utilises the machine until you incorporate Qmaster which most people don't know how to do. Qmaster is also very unreliable.
Cost complaints are unwarranted in my view. Markets change but the Mac Pro is far from uncompetitive and is on a par price wise with Dell etc. Macs are just a platform for OS X regardless of what chip is powering it, as such there is no need to price match. I remember when 1GHz Powerbooks cost over £2800 and apart from physical design and OS X there speed was woeful compared to the x86 world.
The new MP's will be great I have no doubt about that and will pack an 8 core wallop for a much better price. Once they are out a new thread will appear awaiting the new Intel chipset for 2008 and asking why Apple are over charging to outdated 2007 technology. This is just another incremental update. In 2009 we might have 32 core pro workstations which will make even 8 cores look woeful.
The problem we have now is not one of small MHz upgrades but large architectural and core updates. For users wanting to stay at the cutting edge it could be argued that the traditional 3 year life span for a machine at peak usage is out of the window. We are waiting for the technology to gel properly, that means losing the FSB between memory and CPU and getting software which is far more capable then anything than the current or next gen will offer.
Roll on 2009 with 16+ core Mac Pro's utilising on chip memory controllers, DDR3 memory and state of the art multicore GPU's all working in harmony to run 10.6 and associated software!
I'm a firm believer in technology moving forward but not everything is as big as it is made out to be. Santa Rosa is a prime example. I bought a new MB Pro after the updates but if you take out the GPU update and the LED screen the differences are practically none existent. Searching old threads you see huge claims about how Robson Caching (or what ever it is called today) will add hours to battery life and will be a huge performance boost. People waited and waited and sure enough Apple never used it. Fact is, it has become a white elephant. It isn't that fast and battery life isn't hugely extended. Cost is also prohibitive.
Seaburg and other architectural changes will no doubt see the Mac Pro move to the next level but anyone thinking this is going to be like the move from Netburst to Core is dreaming. Until Intel adopts on chip memory controllers like AMD sometime in 2008 memory bottlenecks will handicap 8 core or higher systems. The move away from fully buffered memory is good both from cost and latency perspectives though but also might not be used at this stage.
The new machines will be great for rendering but for daily tasks I just cannot see the huge speed increases people are expecting. New GPUs are a must but they will not be PCI-E 2.0 so older Mac Pro's can utilise them as well. This is an evolutionary not revolutionary step. Another huge stumbling block is software, even if 10.5 has better thread managements other apps will not necessarily. Photoshop CS3 is a good example, by the time CS4 arrives the next gen Macs will be history. Apple software is as bad, even on a Quad core machine Compressor never fully utilises the machine until you incorporate Qmaster which most people don't know how to do. Qmaster is also very unreliable.
Cost complaints are unwarranted in my view. Markets change but the Mac Pro is far from uncompetitive and is on a par price wise with Dell etc. Macs are just a platform for OS X regardless of what chip is powering it, as such there is no need to price match. I remember when 1GHz Powerbooks cost over £2800 and apart from physical design and OS X there speed was woeful compared to the x86 world.
The new MP's will be great I have no doubt about that and will pack an 8 core wallop for a much better price. Once they are out a new thread will appear awaiting the new Intel chipset for 2008 and asking why Apple are over charging to outdated 2007 technology. This is just another incremental update. In 2009 we might have 32 core pro workstations which will make even 8 cores look woeful.
The problem we have now is not one of small MHz upgrades but large architectural and core updates. For users wanting to stay at the cutting edge it could be argued that the traditional 3 year life span for a machine at peak usage is out of the window. We are waiting for the technology to gel properly, that means losing the FSB between memory and CPU and getting software which is far more capable then anything than the current or next gen will offer.
Roll on 2009 with 16+ core Mac Pro's utilising on chip memory controllers, DDR3 memory and state of the art multicore GPU's all working in harmony to run 10.6 and associated software!
Never a truer word...
[edit-he altered his post within 3 minutes of seeing mine! 'Twas only a bit of fun MM...Some payback for stringing us sheep along on this jaunt since last October!]
Pricing revealed
X5460 (3.16GHz) $1,172
E5450 (3.00GHz) $851
E5440 (2.83GHz) $690
E5430 (2.66GHz) $455
E5420 (2.50GHz) $316
E5410 (2.33GHz) $256
E5405 (2.xxGHz) $209
Current Prices:
X5355 2.66 GHz $1,172
E5345 2.33 GHz $851
E5335 2.00 GHz $690
E5320 1.86 GHz $455
E5310 1.60 GHz $316
5160 3.00 GHz $851
5150 2.66 GHz $690
5140 2.33 GHz $455
5130 2.00 GHz $316
5120 1.86 GHz $256
5110 1.60 GHz $209
July 29th Pricing:
X5365 3.00 GHz $1,172 (not comming until August 12th)
X5355 2.66 GHz $744
E5345 2.33 GHz $455
E5335 2.00 GHz $316
E5320 1.86 GHz $256
E5310 1.60 GHz $209
X5460 (3.16GHz) $1,172
E5450 (3.00GHz) $851
E5440 (2.83GHz) $690
E5430 (2.66GHz) $455
E5420 (2.50GHz) $316
E5410 (2.33GHz) $256
E5405 (2.xxGHz) $209
Current Prices:
X5355 2.66 GHz $1,172
E5345 2.33 GHz $851
E5335 2.00 GHz $690
E5320 1.86 GHz $455
E5310 1.60 GHz $316
5160 3.00 GHz $851
5150 2.66 GHz $690
5140 2.33 GHz $455
5130 2.00 GHz $316
5120 1.86 GHz $256
5110 1.60 GHz $209
July 29th Pricing:
X5365 3.00 GHz $1,172 (not comming until August 12th)
X5355 2.66 GHz $744
E5345 2.33 GHz $455
E5335 2.00 GHz $316
E5320 1.86 GHz $256
E5310 1.60 GHz $209
What a STEAL.
Some kid was trying to sell a 500GHz/128MB/30GB G3 iMac DV Special Edition at a garage sale for $70 a couple of weeks ago. I offered him $20 and he thought I was nuts. Looks like I offered him too much.
Jeez, yeah I would say so! $70 is way too much IMO. I got a PowerMac G4 500 DP (Gigabit model). 40GB, 768MB. I didn't think it was bad, looking at eBay prices it was a steal ($150-$225). It will be my little hump computer since I don't have one right now!
I just hope it can handle my usage. Lol. It should be fine though.
Anyhow, I am ready baby! Bring on the update Apple!
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