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Are You Waiting For A Stoakley-Seaburg and 2007 Graphics Cards 8-Core Mac Pro

  • No. I bought the FrankenMac

    Votes: 30 7.1%
  • Yes I Will Wait 'Til Apple Gets It Right

    Votes: 246 58.0%
  • Not sure. Waiting for benchmarks on the 4.4.07 model.

    Votes: 27 6.4%
  • I'll stick with 4 cores, thank you very much.

    Votes: 121 28.5%

  • Total voters
    424
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So it looks like a 16 core Mac Pro is virtually a certainty in 2008.

Intel has typically had a huge premium on the Xeon MP chips (those capable of running on boards with 3 or more sockets) vs Xeon DP chips (the "volume" dual socket chips).

If Apple followed typical pricing in the Intel server market, a 16-core system would be 4 times the price of an 8-core system, and would give +50% better performance on many loads...
 
Intel has typically had a huge premium on the Xeon MP chips (those capable of running on boards with 3 or more sockets) vs Xeon DP chips (the "volume" dual socket chips).

If Apple followed typical pricing in the Intel server market, a 16-core system would be 4 times the price of an 8-core system, and would give +50% better performance on many loads...
I believe that they meant 2 x 8 cores.
 
I believe that they meant 2 x 8 cores.

Look at the picture - it shows a 4 socket system....

...and MM said:

"Here are diagrams of all three of Intel's Dual or Quad Socket for Quad Core processors logicboard architectures for the end of this year. So it looks like a 16 core Mac Pro is virtually a certainty in 2008."


The hexa-Mac is a quad-quad....and won't be happening.
 
What a STEAL. :eek:

Some kid was trying to sell a 500GHz/128MB/30GB G3 iMac DV Special Edition at a garage sale for $70 a couple of weeks ago. I offered him $20 and he thought I was nuts. Looks like I offered him too much.

I'd have bought it. :D
 
I came back to this thread after Multimedia posted in a recent thread on the current Mac Pro being overpriced. I hasten to add Multimedias post was purely pointing back to this thread ;)

I'm a firm believer in technology moving forward but not everything is as big as it is made out to be. Santa Rosa is a prime example. I bought a new MB Pro after the updates but if you take out the GPU update and the LED screen the differences are practically none existent. Searching old threads you see huge claims about how Robson Caching (or what ever it is called today) will add hours to battery life and will be a huge performance boost. People waited and waited and sure enough Apple never used it. Fact is, it has become a white elephant. It isn't that fast and battery life isn't hugely extended. Cost is also prohibitive.

Seaburg and other architectural changes will no doubt see the Mac Pro move to the next level but anyone thinking this is going to be like the move from Netburst to Core is dreaming. Until Intel adopts on chip memory controllers like AMD sometime in 2008 memory bottlenecks will handicap 8 core or higher systems. The move away from fully buffered memory is good both from cost and latency perspectives though but also might not be used at this stage.

The new machines will be great for rendering but for daily tasks I just cannot see the huge speed increases people are expecting. New GPUs are a must but they will not be PCI-E 2.0 so older Mac Pro's can utilise them as well. This is an evolutionary not revolutionary step. Another huge stumbling block is software, even if 10.5 has better thread managements other apps will not necessarily. Photoshop CS3 is a good example, by the time CS4 arrives the next gen Macs will be history. Apple software is as bad, even on a Quad core machine Compressor never fully utilises the machine until you incorporate Qmaster which most people don't know how to do. Qmaster is also very unreliable.

Cost complaints are unwarranted in my view. Markets change but the Mac Pro is far from uncompetitive and is on a par price wise with Dell etc. Macs are just a platform for OS X regardless of what chip is powering it, as such there is no need to price match. I remember when 1GHz Powerbooks cost over £2800 and apart from physical design and OS X there speed was woeful compared to the x86 world.

The new MP's will be great I have no doubt about that and will pack an 8 core wallop for a much better price. Once they are out a new thread will appear awaiting the new Intel chipset for 2008 and asking why Apple are over charging to outdated 2007 technology. This is just another incremental update. In 2009 we might have 32 core pro workstations which will make even 8 cores look woeful.

The problem we have now is not one of small MHz upgrades but large architectural and core updates. For users wanting to stay at the cutting edge it could be argued that the traditional 3 year life span for a machine at peak usage is out of the window. We are waiting for the technology to gel properly, that means losing the FSB between memory and CPU and getting software which is far more capable then anything than the current or next gen will offer.

Roll on 2009 with 16+ core Mac Pro's utilising on chip memory controllers, DDR3 memory and state of the art multicore GPU's all working in harmony to run 10.6 and associated software! :)

excellent post , i agree 100%
 
I Don't Think Anyone Has Been Strung Along

'Twas only a bit of fun MM... Some payback for stringing us sheep along on this jaunt since last October!
Based on many other posts than mine, none of us meant to "string along" anyone with regard to waiting for this update.

I think most of us agree that the next version of Mac Pro will not be a "revolutionary leap" like Psycho Bob seems to think we imagine it will be. I certainly never meant to imply that would be the case. I'd just like to get a box that's contemporary with the Leopard release and that has a 2007 logic board and a 2007 video card inside - that's all. While there's no need to wait if you need it now, there's no need to buy it until those changes are offered if you don't. I know my investment will top over $5 Grand. So I really don't see the point of dumping that much money into an 8 core Mac Pro that was engineered in 2005-06. :rolleyes:
Newsflash! Intel's next xeon is not going to be 45nm, it will be a 65nm part still and might only be 160mhz faster. Hall are waiting for nothing.
That's not a newsflash. It's well known we weren't going to get a new processor. Never were waiting for a speed increase. Never were waiting for 45nm. Never expected to get anything better than the Clovertowns that they're putting in them now. I don't think anyone else here did either. Glad you were able to figure out how to make money with one already. That's a skill I've never mastered. :(
 
Newsflash! Intel's next xeon is not going to be 45nm, it will be a 65nm part still and might only be 160mhz faster. Hall are waiting for nothing. Meanwhile since I got my mac pro I have made tons of money using it and it did all that work fast with a smile. Enjoy your G3 systems kids. The real men will be on their mac pros.
 
I think most of us agree that the next version of Mac Pro will not be a "revolutionary leap" like Psycho Bob seems to think we imagine it will be... ZIP...:rolleyes:

My post wasn't a criticism of you at all. I've followed this thread from the beginning and have a great deal of respect for you and what you have to say. There are some people though who bill every single update as revolutionary and as such wait and wait and wait.

If you can wait, or like yourself have a strategy, it is no problem but so often (not in this case) the people who wait are the people that don't need the power in the first place.

Outside of rendering for 3D and encoding for video the current 8 core machines are a complete waste for anyone carrying out singular or even a couple of tasks. Only real multitasking shows any benefit and then you hit the FSB wall.

Better core management in hardware will not alleviate the problems in the data path caused through lack of bandwidth. At least not entirely. If this generation stick with FB-DIMMS with ECC then the latency issue will be another stone in the shoe. The FSB increase and extra cache will all help I just don't see it being a real solution.

My biggest fear is that like Santa Rosa this update will just be another load of theoretical changes. The main problem could well be what Apple choose to include or more importantly leave out. We might see a few more ports but essentially the status quo will remain. As long as the new GPU's are sold separately then I think current owners can happily wait for 'the next big thing'. I see this update mainly bringing the following or real importance:

  • 8 core price savings
  • better high end GPU's
  • slightly improved 8 core performance

Software makers are now just playing catch up to hardware. 10.4 was heralded as having better multiprocessor support now even with 4 cores it struggles. 10.5 will hopefully improve on this but will it too struggle when we reach say 16 cores. This is obvious theoretical and doesn't really apply to your buying needs.

I just feel that these days the technology outdates too quickly, the old adage that a mac will last longer than a PC is now rubbished. A G4 lasted as long as it did because development was slower. A first generation G5 dual remained competitive until the Intel machines entered the mac world. Both a dual G4 or G5 Pro machine stayed high end because the consumer models were always limited to one CPU with one core. Now in the Intel world an iMac could have four cores like the original Mac Pro. A machine will have a high end life span of about 1.5-2 years max for those wanting to stay on the bleeding edge. This applies for Windows and OS X, maybe more so for Apple as there software is a lot more hardware Dependant in a lot of cases.

We're in a position where even orignal Mac Pro owners are awaing 10.5, CS4 and FCS3 to get the most out of there machines for daily tasks and that is wrong.
 
Newsflash! Intel's next xeon is not going to be 45nm, it will be a 65nm part still and might only be 160mhz faster. Hall are waiting for nothing. Meanwhile since I got my mac pro I have made tons of money using it and it did all that work fast with a smile. Enjoy your G3 systems kids. The real men will be on their mac pros.

well said

seems a lot of people on this forum need a reality check
 
Please Clarify..

Newsflash! Intel's next xeon is not going to be 45nm, it will be a 65nm part still and might only be 160mhz faster. Hall are waiting for nothing. Meanwhile since I got my mac pro I have made tons of money using it and it did all that work fast with a smile. Enjoy your G3 systems kids. The real men will be on their mac pros.

I'm a little confused.. I thought 45nm was the next evolution of the MacPro.. and I can't seem to find the information behind this statement.

Thx.
 
Who knows where Macenforcer made that up from. Harpertown (Xeon 5400 series) is 45nm. However, theres a bit movement on the Intel list for July 22 with G0 stepping C2Ds and Xeons becoming available. These aren't part of the next gen harpertown or penryn family.
 
Who knows where Macenforcer made that up from. Harpertown (Xeon 5400 series) is 45nm. However, theres a bit movement on the Intel list for July 22 with G0 stepping C2Ds and Xeons becoming available. These aren't part of the next gen harpertown or penryn family.

Well it seems that MM & Flappo are some what agreeing to the statement too.. like it was common knowledge or something..
 
so, based on the new info about these new chips, does anyone think its still possible for little hardware upgrades in the next month or two? I know some people are waiting to see if this intel price cut does anything, but if there are going to be new mp's at the end of this year, would apple bump the macpros specs now or just wait it out another 5 months for a major upgrade? Im going to want one by around september so Im trying to figure out if i should just get it now or if its even possibly worth waiting another month to order.
 
If the next update is rather substantial, I will be buying. I am moving myself into a better position to wait. I sold my computer in haste assuming Apple would update at WWDC. My error of course.

I am prepared to wait til the MWSF at this point, unless an update happens before that (Paris?) that proves to be worthy. Who knows that Apple is planning. A new case design!? Who knows. I hope they really refresh all their lines with a fresh look for Leopard. The Macbook is the only computer that really seem a complete rework. The Mac Pro has better innards of course, but that was more consequential than anything. :D:apple::eek:
 
Not Waiting For A Miracle, Just A Little Bit Better Than What's Out Now

Well it seems that MM & Flappo are some what agreeing to the statement too.. like it was common knowledge or something..
I meant I thought it was common knowledge that 45nm processors wouldn't reach Macs until 2008.
so, based on the new info about these new chips, does anyone think its still possible for little hardware upgrades in the next month or two? I know some people are waiting to see if this intel price cut does anything, but if there are going to be new mp's at the end of this year, would apple bump the macpros specs now or just wait it out another 5 months for a major upgrade? Im going to want one by around september so Im trying to figure out if i should just get it now or if its even possibly worth waiting another month to order.
Well it seems like September would be a drop dead date to me. I'm thinking the Stoakley platform should be shipping by then inside a new Mac Pro to replace the current model which will be more than one year old. End of October add Leopard and stir. ;)
If the next update is rather substantial, I will be buying. I am moving myself into a better position to wait. I sold my computer in haste assuming Apple would update at WWDC. My error of course.

I am prepared to wait til the MWSF at this point, unless an update happens before that (Paris?) that proves to be worthy. Who knows that Apple is planning. A new case design!? Who knows. I hope they really refresh all their lines with a fresh look for Leopard. The Macbook is the only computer that really seem a complete rework. The Mac Pro has better innards of course, but that was more consequential than anything. :D:apple::eek:
I like the current case design. I just want a Stoakley logic board and newer graphics cards with 8 cores. I don't really have that high a set of expectations. Willing to buy the next (first) revision.
 
Omg

I put together a table that I think is interesting especially take a look at the prices.
The 3.16GHz Harpertown will be the same price as the quad-core 3.00GHz Clovertown that is currently in the Mac Pro.
The 3.00GHz Harpertown will be the same price as the 3.00GHz Woodcrest that is currently in the Mac Pro.
The 2.83GHz Harpertown will be the same price as the 2.66GHz Woodcrest that is currently in the Mac Pro.
The 2.66 GHz Harpertown will be the same price as the 2.33 GHz Woodcrest that is currently in the Mac Pro.

It appears that the next generation Mac Pro may be all quad-core Harpertown.
And Apple can keep selling the Mac Pro for the same prices.
There is a clock speed jump also; 3.16GHz compared to 3.00GHz, 2.83GHz compared to 2.66GHz etc.

Note also that the Harpertowns' TDP is smaller than that of comparable Covertown and Woodcrest processors.

This seems wrong somehow but this is what I am coming up with:
processors.jpg
 
Will these chips work in the current mac pros?

Yeah should do.

I am hearing 45nm Harpertown sometime Q4/2007.
I am hearing SS in November.

This is what all the articles I have read over the past couple of months are indicating.

------------

I'm of the firm belief that Apple will react to the price drops and to the rollout of Penryn/Stoakley systems later in the year. They of course, if history is anything to go by, will want these as far apart as possible, perhaps we will see a very quick rollout of new GPU options and an all 8 core line, then a delayed reaction to Harpertown/5100X systems, which would make more sense as new components can always take a while to filter out and Harpertown may be in a smaller supply. I would be very suprised to see both not come this year assuming that other vendors end up having such systems easily available also.
 
The new chips will not work in todays mac pros. The new chips will have a 1600mhz bus. Its now 1333mhz.

No the new chips will be 1333MHz as shown by the leaked information, 1600Mhz will follow next year. You consistant spread of misinformation is laughable.
 
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