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Pro 15 and 17 versus XPS 16

Some places it (most likely - depending) does beat the MB"p" is this:

Firewire - most likely this has a better chip, and since OS X support for FW somehow seems to have been crippled (FW doesnt work properly under OS X, even with an expresscard->FW adaptor), this is good.

Combo USB/eSata port.

Card reader

Both HDMI AND Displayport

Oh, and the expressport is almost guaranteed to work with an fw-adaptor, as it doesn't run OS X – ironically.

One thing I found funny, though, is a plug for a tv-cable – say what?
 
Sesshi said:
We're not comparing some superannuated machine which lacks SDHC (for example) support.
Click to expand...

No but id sooner have more space for a battery than a card reader ill inevitably circumvent anyway by plugging my camera in
 
Eh I used to be a hardcore PC guy and after buying this MacBook Pro I will probably never buy or build another PC for myself.

Everything about this mac works better, and it can run Windows just like that laptop but that laptop can't run OS X.

As far as price goes, you can't honestly compare prices between Macs and PCs for one reason: Mac's come with tons of awesome software and very few unnecessary processes, and PC's come with very little software and a ton of unnecessary processes. Look at all of the great software that comes with iLife etc., and how everything you need for Windows you have to buy or pirate etc etc.

Something else I've noticed is that the MacBook Pro runs Windows as good if not better than my previous computer, a custom built desktop running similar specs (2.4Ghz Core 2 Duo, 2GB RAM, etc.).
 
WHa?

Ok first post.. long time lurker... I use PC at home vista... PC at work XP and Mac at night(recording engineer)... and some apple supporters are delusional... lets compare the to laptops shall we...

XPS16
Intel Core2duo 9600 2.8ghz
Vista home premium 64bit
E2E fullhd 1080p RGB LED screen
4gb ddr3
128gb ssd
Bluray disc combo drive
WLAN n mini card
bluetooth

=$2314

Macbook pro 17in
2.93ghz
4gb ddr3
128gb ssd
dvdrw

=$3599

ummmmm what? $1285 difference?

For giggles

15in macbook pro
2.8ghz processor
4gb ddr3
128gb ssd
dvdrw

$3299

huh?

I love OSX(Vista is a good os also SP1 helped that) but good lord thats a premium!:eek:
 
Apart from liking OS X way more than XP or Vista...

Is the Dell as silent as the super-silent Unibody MacBook Pro? (Anyone...)
Is the Dell as cool - temperature wise - as a Unibody MacBook Pro?
Does the Dell trackpad offer finger gestures? No. (But I love those...)
Does the Dell have a build-quality that matches the UMBPs Unibody + Alu combo?
Does the Dell look as good?
Is the Dell keyboard as great to type on as the UMBPs?
Is the Dell poweradaptor anywhere as nice'n'small as the Macs?
Is the Dell as "green" as the UMBP?

Back to the top. You can not ignore the OS in the equation. I like working on OS X + the software that's available for it. I especially like that it doesn't give me anywhere near the same amount of technical problems as a XP or Vista system does (Yes, I am an experienced Windows user). That way, I can focus more on the stuff I want to do with the machine, instead of the machine itself.

The UMBP is the best laptop for runnning OS X. It is the best, most refined Mac laptop ever. It costs a lot of money. But it more than pays off. If you value your time. Easy choice.
 
The 17" Dells have a lot better performance related specifications. And they are also more affordable. But you make a lot of sacrifices.

For example, loud fans. Plastic body. Thicker. Heavier. no Magsafe connector (Which has saved my laptop at-least once for sure).

And there is other stuff, the great Apple Care which is very affordable, Mac OS X with a definite and clear upgrade path to Snow Leopard and beyond. Infact it's very likely that the next 3 or 4 OS X upgrades will support any Machine you purchase from Apple right now.

And their are some less obvious advantages to getting a Macintosh over a PC. Aftermarket self repair is very straight forward. Websites like ifixit provide great free service guides and sell every component in a MacBook Pro so that you can repair or upgrade your machine yourself. Once the warranty is over you've got options. With a Dell its not impossible to do upgrades yourself its just a lot more complicated. Finding illustrated guides to help you take apart your machine to replace the Screen would be almost impossible down to the sheer volume of different models and build options. And Dell won't be afraid to make undocumented changes internally which could radically change the system from defined online specs.

These reasons above are unimportant to most people. They buy a machine for what it has when they buy it and they never intend to do any upgrades. But I personally bought a MacBook Pro in 2006 before they were 802.11n and the fastest disk available was a 7,200RPM 100GB drive. And I found it incredibly easy to find a tear-down guide of my exact machine (to every screw and wire) which enabled me to upgrade the machine with an after-market 802.11n card and a 320GB 7,200RPM drive. It was so easy. Doing the same with a Dell .. might be pretty difficult. I've looked online previously to help friends find information on upgrading their components (802.11G to N and higher resolution screens) only to find 'I think this is the manual for this model, at-least it looks identical to this older model they sold' on various forums. Not something that you would want to attempt yourself without being certain that you can put it back together again.

Aside from all this. You may pay a Premium on the Hardware, but the Software works out a lot cheaper. Some of the basic tools that Computer users need is a Word Processor. If you use the default Dell software and go for the premium Commercial Office Suit your looking at £380 to £449 for Microsoft Office Premium. iWork only £69. And their is also iLife which can be replicated with some Vista apps but again it'll cost you and none of it really feels as refined or unified with the operating system as iLife which does come free with every Mac.

And perhaps the biggest Software cost for a Windows machine is Windows itself. Sure you get Vista built in, but as Apple have said and I agree with Vista has not been everything Microsoft hoped it would be. And when your looking to upgrade to Windows 7 are you willing to pay a £350 Price Tag for Ultimate that has everything or £190 for Premium, or take the £80 Basic and lose features that you probably would want. I find it quite sad that for the price of Vista Ultimate Retail for about the first year that it shipped it was around £350 (It has come down a lot more now, but it's been what, 2 years?) and for that price you could purchase almost 4 OS X upgrades (£89 a Pop). Pretty ridiculous. And I'm not just being a Fanboy as you can see in my Signature I happily use a Vista x64 machine but I can identify its faults one of those its amazingly high cost.

Even if you take all this in to consideration there is yet another issue with taking the Dell and that is the Time you will spend diagnosing problems, fixing the machines performance issues, running and paying for Anti-Virus software and generally surfing the internet like a boy in a bubble worrying about every Virus and Trojan out on the web and not to mention the Windows Updates.. oh god the Windows Updates. Being a Vista user I can hold my hands up and say that I am sick of Windows Updates. There is just so many and the Nagging messages are so annoying. Sometimes there are updates every other day. And almost all of them require a reboot. Sure you can turn the Nagging messages off but then you don't get a message at all and if you don't update you may find yourself at the crosshair of some terrible zero-day attack on Facebook or god-knows what. Of course Macs aren't impervious to these sorts of problems but they are a lot safer, require a lot less user intervention and they don't demand the constant awareness that Vista seems to of its users.

I dunno if people will agree with me on any of this. But these are my reasons why I won't buy a Dell notebook over a MacBook Pro.
 
tubbymac said:
It is available with the same 1920 x 1200 resolution as the new Macbook Pro 17 and takes the display quality a step further with not only just a 60% color gamut but a 100% color gamut.
Click to expand...

You might want to do your research first.

The MBP doesn't have 60% gamut, it has 60% greater gamut than the last 17". This doesn't tell us anything about how the screen qualities compare.

Built in card readers suck because as soon as you get a camera with the next generation of media that reader is obsolete.
 
For more giggles..

:pI added Vista Ultimate 64 bit AND 8gb of ddr3 ram along with the previouse spec on XPS16

price

$3214


Price for comparable mac...

15in= cant get 8gb of ram(not configurable on apple site0

17in= $4799

$1585 price difference...

Just stating the obvious...
 
flottenheimer said:
Apart from liking OS X way more than XP or Vista...

Is the Dell as silent as the super-silent Unibody MacBook Pro? (Anyone...)
Is the Dell as cool - temperature wise - as a Unibody MacBook Pro?
Does the Dell trackpad offer finger gestures? No. (But I love those...)
Does the Dell have a build-quality that matches the UMBPs Unibody + Alu combo?
Does the Dell look as good?
Is the Dell keyboard as great to type on as the UMBPs?
Is the Dell poweradaptor anywhere as nice'n'small as the Macs?
Is the Dell as "green" as the UMBP?

Back to the top. You can not ignore the OS in the equation. I like working on OS X + the software that's available for it. I especially like that it doesn't give me anywhere near the same amount of technical problems as a XP or Vista system does (Yes, I am an experienced Windows user). That way, I can focus more on the stuff I want to do with the machine, instead of the machine itself.

The UMBP is the best laptop for runnning OS X. It is the best, most refined Mac laptop ever. It costs a lot of money. But it more than pays off. If you value your time. Easy choice.[/QUOTE

Interesting points you have raised, though none of them are actually performance based. My MBP run super hot to a point where i have to install 3rd party fan controller to run it at 6000RPM, and its not quiet then. I use it for gaming. As for being green....well i am on my third one know because the 1st 2 had blatant defects, so the green saving have been offset by transportation cost/omissions.

There are lots of people that love the looks and design of it, so be it for these people they would not be seen in public with a dell, so its not even a choice. No matter what the cost is, they will buy the shiny apple product.
Click to expand...
 
Moriarty said:
Apple is the only company as yet who knows how to make a laptop trackpad. Every other laptop aside from Macbooks has a pathetically tiny, insensitive trackpad with a poor tracking surface in terms of texture, and tiny, squidgy, uncomfortable buttons.

Macbook trackpad FTW. A lot of other trackpads dont even have the functionality to click by tapping, let alone right click by tapping with two fingers... ugh.
Click to expand...

I agree. That is one of the things I like about Macbook, the others being OSX and the sleek design. Yes, you can easily get better spec PCs but at least for me a laptop isn't my primary computer. For the heavier stuff I've got a fancy PC running Vista (and soon Windows 7).

I don't think the 17" Macbook Pro is worth it though. The 2.4 GHz 15" Macbook Pro seems to be the best bang for the buck in the Macbook line-up. Doesn't have the display and connectivity (no FW) issues of the Macbook or the lack of power and connections of the Air. At least over here the Macbook Pro 15" isn't significantly more expensive or underspecced compared to similar laptop PCs.
 
DirtyDan said:
Eh I used to be a hardcore PC guy and after buying this MacBook Pro I will probably never buy or build another PC for myself.

Everything about this mac works better, and it can run Windows just like that laptop but that laptop can't run OS X.

As far as price goes, you can't honestly compare prices between Macs and PCs for one reason: Mac's come with tons of awesome software and very few unnecessary processes, and PC's come with very little software and a ton of unnecessary processes. Look at all of the great software that comes with iLife etc., and how everything you need for Windows you have to buy or pirate etc etc.

Something else I've noticed is that the MacBook Pro runs Windows as good if not better than my previous computer, a custom built desktop running similar specs (2.4Ghz Core 2 Duo, 2GB RAM, etc.).
Click to expand...

Are you running vista 64? No overheating issues on the MBP?

Hang on, apart from iLife, what tons of software are you talking about? Btw, its not free, its factored into the cost of the MBP, if it was free all users of iLife 08 would be getting a free upgrade to iLife 09, instead they have to pay $80.

If you did not buy additional software for the MBP to use its potential then you could have bought a 2.0 Macbook. Apple only gives you the basics with the MBP.
 
MartinJ said:
Well the 512MB ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3670 is a lot better than the 9600

http://www.notebookcheck.net/ATI-Mobility-Radeon-HD-3670.9595.0.html

http://www.notebookcheck.net/ATI-Mobility-Radeon-9600-Pro.2171.0.html

So for 16" which is cheaper gets a lot better card and comes with 7200 rpm HDD, 4 GB and a 1080p RGBLED Display with TrueLife...

but i'm still thinking of getting a macbook pro :eek:
Click to expand...

You're comparing the wrong cards. The MBP has the NVIDIA 9600M, which is a lot faster than the HD3670.
 
kasakka said:
You're comparing the wrong cards. The MBP has the NVIDIA 9600M, which is a lot faster than the HD3670.
Click to expand...

Nevermind then =), completely forgot ATI 9600 cards lol...atleast then in HK, the difference between 15 Macbook pro and Dell 16" isnt that great in terms of price vs hardware =)

EDIT: Thanks for pointing that out.
 
kasakka said:
You're comparing the wrong cards. The MBP has the NVIDIA 9600M, which is a lot faster than the HD3670.
Click to expand...

according to link, the ATI 3670 card gets 4,855 3dmarks, while the Nvidia 9600m gets 4,127 3dmarks. Looks like the ATI is better.

But this laptop I don't think I like. According to the review, it runs hot and gets terrible battery life. And it's nearly as heavy as the 17in and much thicker. So not quite there yet.
 
jaytv111 said:
according to link, the ATI 3670 card gets 4,855 3dmarks, while the Nvidia 9600m gets 4,127 3dmarks. Looks like the ATI is better.

But this laptop I don't think I like. According to the review, it runs hot and gets terrible battery life. And it's nearly as heavy as the 17in and much thicker. So not quite there yet.
Click to expand...
Synthetic benchmarks aren't the way to go but I'm going to lean toward the 9600M GT.

nplima said:
Geekbench results for the new MBP anyone?
Click to expand...
Take a look at what's already posted for those processors.
 
I currently own a Dell Studio and in five months have changed just about every part in it, some more than once, plus vista has crashed twice just updating itself! I understand I may have received a lemon.
I have been patiently waiting for the 17" MBP to come out. Yesterday was a happy day.

The extra $$$ you pay for the a MBP is for the build and OSX and the support.
 
MH01 said:
Are you running vista 64? No overheating issues on the MBP?

Hang on, apart from iLife, what tons of software are you talking about? Btw, its not free, its factored into the cost of the MBP, if it was free all users of iLife 08 would be getting a free upgrade to iLife 09, instead they have to pay $80.

If you did not buy additional software for the MBP to use its potential then you could have bought a 2.0 Macbook. Apple only gives you the basics with the MBP.
Click to expand...

Well, here's one piece of included software that NO WINDOWS PC CAN COMPARE. A Macintosh out of the box with NO installed software (even excluding iLife) can read any MS Word, Powerpoint, Excel spreadsheets and create, edit and read PDF's and read Apple's iWork suite.
Please Windows fanboys don't start with the "I CAN DOWNLOAD THOSE THINGS FOR FREE FOR MY PC". I'm talking about the out of the box experience. Many people that buy a computer are uneducated about what software to install on it to read files that they currently have.
I can't count how many recent switchers buy a Mac and start threads like "I just bought a Mac, now what?" "What programs should I install?"
Macintosh takes the guesswork away. There's nothing worse than a negative first impression. Yes, the Dell has some nice specs but when it's time to use it the out of box experience cannot possibly compare to the MBP. YES, PEOPLE WILL PAY EXTRA TO RELIEVE THEMSELVES OF FRUSTRATION. Specs are not the only thing that sells.
 
clyde2801 said:
So, has the hackintosh community done anything with this sucker?

Geez, what is with Dell's love of VGA ports on its laptops? Should someone tell them it's not 1998 anymore?
Click to expand...

Dell has moved to HDMI as their primary video out. They may offer VGA as an extra.
 
HLdan said:
Well, here's one piece of included software that NO WINDOWS PC CAN COMPARE. A Macintosh out of the box with NO installed software (even excluding iLife) can read any MS Word, Powerpoint, Excel spreadsheets and create, edit and read PDF's and read Apple's iWork suite.
Please Windows fanboys don't start with the "I CAN DOWNLOAD THOSE THINGS FOR FREE FOR MY PC". I'm talking about the out of the box experience. Many people that buy a computer are uneducated about what software to install on it to read files that they currently have.
I can't count how many recent switchers buy a Mac and start threads like "I just bought a Mac, now what?" "What programs should I install?"
Macintosh takes the guesswork away. There's nothing worse than a negative first impression. Yes, the Dell has some nice specs but when it's time to use it the out of box experience cannot possibly compare to the MBP. YES, PEOPLE WILL PAY EXTRA TO RELIEVE THEMSELVES OF FRUSTRATION. Specs are not the only thing that sells.
Click to expand...
This is what I say about OS X as well. If you do plain vanilla operating systems with drivers only you can do a lot more with OS X then with Windows.
 
flottenheimer said:
Apart from liking OS X way more than XP or Vista...

Is the Dell as silent as the super-silent Unibody MacBook Pro? (Anyone...)
Is the Dell as cool - temperature wise - as a Unibody MacBook Pro?
Does the Dell trackpad offer finger gestures? No. (But I love those...)
Does the Dell have a build-quality that matches the UMBPs Unibody + Alu combo?
Does the Dell look as good?
Is the Dell keyboard as great to type on as the UMBPs?
Is the Dell poweradaptor anywhere as nice'n'small as the Macs?
Is the Dell as "green" as the UMBP?

Back to the top. You can not ignore the OS in the equation. I like working on OS X + the software that's available for it. I especially like that it doesn't give me anywhere near the same amount of technical problems as a XP or Vista system does (Yes, I am an experienced Windows user). That way, I can focus more on the stuff I want to do with the machine, instead of the machine itself.

The UMBP is the best laptop for runnning OS X. It is the best, most refined Mac laptop ever. It costs a lot of money. But it more than pays off. If you value your time. Easy choice.
Click to expand...
I'm just going to address the "green" issue because the rest of your comments seem on point.

Wall Street Journal: How Green is Apple?

Please educate yourself. I don't mean this in a condescending way - I mean it seriously. The environment is much too important to be swept aside and treated only as a marketing ploy. If consumers buy the superficial B.S. then there will be no significant change when it comes to the environment and sustainability. Although Apple is headed in the right direction, Dell has actually gone BEYOND carbon neutral and is more "green" as a company than is Apple. Don't get caught up in the "greeness" of a particular product vs. another product. Look at the entire company. Dell buys 58 times more renewable energy than Apple. Granted, they're a much larger company and as a result consume more energy, but they overcompensated in 2007 and bought excess carbon credits. (Carbon credits = buying renewable energy, investing in tree reforestation, etc.) There's no comparison. Congratulate Apple for being carbon conscious, but make sure they make substantial changes that help the environment and reduce carbon emissions - not just superficial changes to sell more computers. Apple even punks out on things like disclosing all their energy consumption and manufacturing process - things that Dell, HP, etc have been disclosing for years.

For those interested, here's a more detailed look at the issue of carbon neutrality that looks closely at Dell. It acknowledges that although Dell has offset it's own carbon emissions, there's still alot to go when you consider the carbon emissions of the companies that supply Dell with their input products......it's not perfect people, but we can get there. Just don't get sucked into the pretty ads and above all BE A SKEPTIC and remember George Carlin: Question everything, because it's all bulls--t folks, and it's bad for ya!!!


=|
 
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