02 Pay & Go iPhone

[iMachine]

Did you unlock?

"I nearly bought one" means that I did consider buying one but decided not to. And yes it would have been unlocked, but this has nothing to do with whether unlocking is actually right or wrong

All in all, I'm not sure what the point is that you're trying to make now.

This is my last attempt at explaining, although if you read previous posts again it may become clearer

First part:

"If there had been less unlocking activity first time round, the demand for the phone would have been lower"

If the first iPhone hadn't been very easy to jailbreak and unlock, fewer people would have bought one, taken it home and unlocked the phone to use or sell on without having to sign to an expensive contract deal, since the phone was officially contract only with no PAYG option in the UK; imports were too expensive. And demand for the phone would have been lower if the first iPhone (2G) couldn't have been easily unlocked.

Now if the first iPhone hadn't been so easily unlocked...

"but the result could have been lower contract prices"

O2 could have been forced to lower their contract prices for the new iPhone 3G whilst keeping the same activation method as before, but this was only one possible option (what I was referring to, if that makes it any clearer).

Instead, O2 and other phone companies such as AT&T (together with Apple) have scrapped the "take-home" activation method, forcing people to sign up to a contract in the shop, although the phone price is now a lot cheaper initially (up to £99) for a contract. They did this because of the risk of easy unlocking, but they still acknowledge that a PAYG option is required for the UK market because phones could be imported from Europe.

And...

"plus an even better PAYG deal for the iPhone 3G."

However there is now a PAYG option for the iPhone 3G which is supposedly going to be expensive (more than £300), but this price could have been lower if O2 was convinced that fewer people would try to unlock the phone like they did for the first iPhone.

PAYG phones are usually subsidised by the phone company, meaning that they sell the phone for a lower cost in the hope of attracting new customers to their network, recouping the difference through profits from use of the phone on their network. Unlocked phones mean that they may not be used on the O2 network, therefore O2 stands to lose money on the use of each unlocked PAYG phone.

Therefore the subsidy for the PAYG iPhone 3G wouldn't be as much was it would have been if O2 was fully convinced that the new iPhone 3G was reasonably unhackable (which it could be, but nobody knows yet), therefore we could have had "an even better PAYG deal for the iPhone 3G" if fewer people had tried unlocking with the first iPhone (2G), since O2 could have lowered the price of the iPhone 3G even more to attract even more customers to their network. But O2 have judged this to be too risky.

If you have any more queries, contact Jonathan Earle who is head of acquisitions for consumer postpay at O2, and he'll probably explain it to you better than I can

 

[phalewhale]

It is highly irritating that they can't just tell us what it'll cost. It's not like they don't know what they'll be charging, why must they be like this?? It'd be more understandable if they were still keeping costs of the contact version under wraps too, but this is just stupid.

Couldn't agree more... All I can assume at this point is that they are still undecided on what to charge which is a bit pathetic. Could they be waiting for more countries to price up PAYG first?

 

[Argo]

More likely is they want to work out the kinks on the new tarriff(s) they're going to use on the PAYG version before releasing any more info...

I cant see them being undecided on the price of the handset...There'll be some o2 exec running round somewhere with pound symbols flashing on his eyes thinking about how much profit they're planning to squeeze out of me

 

[captain kaos]

iPhone PAYG Sim Cards

This is my one BIG question and its a deal breaker!:

According to O2 i cant upgrade to an iPhone until October as im in my 18 month contract. I asked O2 when the V1 iPhone was still available and this was the case. As an avid fan of all things Apple i would dearly like the new iPhone (like the millions of other people!)

Do we think the new iPhone PAYG will have its own SIM card (new number and having to basically pay for another phone bill, via top up per month) or will i be able to take out my contract SIM card and put it in the iPhone and carry on with my contract?


Thoughts?

 

[bmh16]

This is shocking, and if what i heard is right i will not be buying the iPhone 3G, but instead buying the original iPhone, because i was told in O2 today that the 8Gb model would be around £350 probably. I understand he doesn't have a clear scope on the price yet, but if prices are going to be this high, who is going to buy the iPhone 3G unlocked unless you're really rich or want to buy all new Apple products around. Unbelievable. If the 16Gb model is more than £350 i'm so not buying it.

 

[Skyldig]

This is shocking, and if what i heard is right i will not be buying the iPhone 3G, but instead buying the original iPhone, because i was told in O2 today that the 8Gb model would be around £350 probably. I understand he doesn't have a clear scope on the price yet, but if prices are going to be this high, who is going to buy the iPhone 3G unlocked unless you're really rich or want to buy all new Apple products around. Unbelievable. If the 16Gb model is more than £350 i'm so not buying it.

Wauw... what did you expect. £350 is way below my best guess.

 

[a456]

No doubt O2 will be watching closely all the forums and press reports before they settle on a price for the Pay & Go iPhone price, and maybe they will release the phone at a high price first of all and then lower it if demand does not exist at that price point.

I hope they get it right. At the moment I would like an iPhone for the added convenience it would bring to my work on an occasional basis when away from home (hence my interest in PAYG). But in future a contract may make sense for me, and I may have employees for whom the iPhone would be a useful tool as well. There will be many opportunities for O2 such as this where opportunities to establish goodwill exist - I hope they see the people with less disposable income as potentially valuable as well.

 

[bmh16]

Wauw... what did you expect. £350 is way below my best guess.

Really? Well it's a lot over mine, seeing that you could get it for £329 before (with unlocking). Also after the keynote all Jobs could have said was the price in Pay and Go. But no, he only says the low price intended for contracts so the hype is big. And phones don't generally go up in price on payg.

 

[captain kaos]

iPhone PAYG pricing

The more i think about it the more i think the whole idea of PAYG is just a smoke screen. Its not really going to be viable and you may see it even disappear as an option after a few months when O2 realise there are no takers at what i believe is going to be an extortionate price.

 

[PowerFullMac]

No doubt O2 will be watching closely all the forums and press reports before they settle on a price for the Pay & Go iPhone price...

If they are then read this: I AM NOT BUYING ONE FOR OVER £270!

 

[a456]

If they are then read this: I AM NOT BUYING ONE FOR OVER £270!

The art of negotiation dictates that you start low - I'm not buying one for over £99

But really if someone is or has a good lawyer - could the "maximum" price that Jobs quoted in the keynote and which is online be insisted upon - after all we've only inferred the contract only bit.

 

[yogi477]

But really if someone is or has a good lawyer - could the "maximum" price that Jobs quoted in the keynote and which is online be insisted upon - after all we've only inferred the contract only bit.

In a word, no. His statements (like any adverts) are at best an 'invitation to treat' not an offer so there is no offer for you to accept therefore no contract. Sorry, it'll be knocking on £300 if you want one, but then an N95 is nearly that so it wouldn't surprise me, who has bigger margins, Nokia or Apple?

 

[PowerFullMac]

In a word, no. His statements (like any adverts) are at best an 'invitation to treat' not an offer so there is no offer for you to accept therefore no contract. Sorry, it'll be knocking on £300 if you want one, but then an N95 is nearly that so it wouldn't surprise me, who has bigger margins, Nokia or Apple?

As I have said before, if they slap a stupid price tag on it I will get a Nokia or a Android phone.

 

[The Phazer]

In a word, no. His statements (like any adverts) are at best an 'invitation to treat' not an offer so there is no offer for you to accept therefore no contract. Sorry, it'll be knocking on £300 if you want one, but then an N95 is nearly that so it wouldn't surprise me, who has bigger margins, Nokia or Apple?

That and Steve was standing in front of a slide that explicitly said that this was with a contract only.

Phazer

 

[The Phazer]

As I have said before, if they slap a stupid price tag on it I will get a Nokia or a Android phone.

I have little doubt most PAYG Android phones will be similar prices, and a PAYG Nokia N95 was £500 IIRC on it's release.

Phazer

 

[captain kaos]

iPhone PAYG

What gets me about the whole PAYG pricing is that i've been with O2 on a contract for about 6 years now and all i want to do is carry on with my current contract and get an iPhone!(i dont know what country i'll be in in 6 months, let alone 18 so i want this one to run out!)

Im not trying to buy one to flog it, or jump onto another provider (which i can understand O2 not wanting, loss of revenue etc) but i can see me having to bend over and drop my pants to get one!

 

[BongoBanger]

What gets me about the whole PAYG pricing is that i've been with O2 on a contract for about 6 years now and all i want to do is carry on with my current contract and get an iPhone!(i dont know what country i'll be in in 6 months, let alone 18 so i want this one to run out!)

Im not trying to buy one to flog it, or jump onto another provider (which i can understand O2 not wanting, loss of revenue etc) but i can see me having to bend over and drop my pants to get one!

The 18 month term includes a subsidy for the phone. That's why you sign for it.

 

[Tom B.]

I will be willing to pay up to £350 for a 16GB iPhone 3G on Pay As You Go.

If not, I will get an unlocked Sony Ericsson K850i (£160) or K770i (£115) and a 32GB iPod touch (£215) all second-hand, instead.

 

[captain kaos]

The 18 month term includes a subsidy for the phone. That's why you sign for it.

Im sorry, im not sure what your saying?

Im saying i want an iphone (i never got the V1) and the only way i can is to get the PAYG. If O2 is going to price people out of the market to stop hackers then its going to make it very expensive for me that quite happily wants to stay with O2 until my contract finishes. Then i'll sign a new contract. If not i have to wait till October to properly upgrade.

PS, being a 34 year old i have had phones and contracts for approx 12 years, so yes i understand the concept of a subsidised phone.

 

[phalewhale]

"I nearly bought one" means that I did consider buying one but decided not to. And yes it would have been unlocked, but this has nothing to do with whether unlocking is actually right or wrong

Yeah but we haven't been discussing whether unlocking is right or wrong. You have said that unlocking will cause O2 to charge more for PAYG than it would have, had unlocking not took place. Sananda and CD3660 both mentioned that pricing the iPhone competitively whilst at the same time pricing it above the box breakers, is near impossible since one cancels the other out.

This is my last attempt at explaining, although if you read previous posts again it may become clearer

First part:

"If there had been less unlocking activity first time round, the demand for the phone would have been lower"

If the first iPhone hadn't been very easy to jailbreak and unlock, fewer people would have bought one, taken it home and unlocked the phone to use or sell on without having to sign to an expensive contract deal, since the phone was officially contract only with no PAYG option in the UK; imports were too expensive. And demand for the phone would have been lower if the first iPhone (2G) couldn't have been easily unlocked.


Now if the first iPhone hadn't been so easily unlocked...

"but the result could have been lower contract prices"

O2 could have been forced to lower their contract prices for the new iPhone 3G whilst keeping the same activation method as before, but this was only one possible option (what I was referring to, if that makes it any clearer).

Instead, O2 and other phone companies such as AT&T (together with Apple) have scrapped the "take-home" activation method, forcing people to sign up to a contract in the shop, although the phone price is now a lot cheaper initially (up to £99) for a contract. They did this because of the risk of easy unlocking, but they still acknowledge that a PAYG option is required for the UK market because phones could be imported from Europe.

And...

"plus an even better PAYG deal for the iPhone 3G."

However there is now a PAYG option for the iPhone 3G which is supposedly going to be expensive (more than £300), but this price could have been lower if O2 was convinced that fewer people would try to unlock the phone like they did for the first iPhone.

PAYG phones are usually subsidised by the phone company, meaning that they sell the phone for a lower cost in the hope of attracting new customers to their network, recouping the difference through profits from use of the phone on their network. Unlocked phones mean that they may not be used on the O2 network, therefore O2 stands to lose money on the use of each unlocked PAYG phone.

Therefore the subsidy for the PAYG iPhone 3G wouldn't be as much was it would have been if O2 was fully convinced that the new iPhone 3G was reasonably unhackable (which it could be, but nobody knows yet), therefore we could have had "an even better PAYG deal for the iPhone 3G" if fewer people had tried unlocking with the first iPhone (2G), since O2 could have lowered the price of the iPhone 3G even more to attract even more customers to their network. But O2 have judged this to be too risky.

If you have any more queries, contact Jonathan Earle who is head of acquisitions for consumer postpay at O2, and he'll probably explain it to you better than I can

Wow...

There are a lot of "could have's", "would have's", and "if" speculations in there... I'm not convinced everything you posted is even relevant to your original point but, maybe I'm just not getting it. No offence but it certainly wasn't easy reading.

After making such a bold statement (literally)...

..."Actually it does affect how etc etc etc... So all that unlocking may just conspire to make the price of the iPhone 3G Pay & Go deal to much for me "

I would expect you to have some proof to back up what you were saying. The article you cited offered nothing new to the discussion, since O2 already knew about unlocking before the original iPhone went on sale in the UK.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing what price O2 set for the PAYG iPhone and I'm also looking forward to discovering ways around whatever procedures they put in place as well as how easy the new iPhone will be to unlock.

 

[Macmadant]

i emailed O2 regarding the iphone and apparently you don't have to activate instore:

Thanks for emailing us and I'm happy to know that you're interested in the new 3G iPhone.

The new 3G iPhone will be launched on 11 July 2008. You won't need to visit an O2 store to activate your iPhone. You can do it via your iPhone.

I was also very surprised about this part:

To purchase an iPhone with a Pay Monthly tariff, you need to be over 18, pass a credit check and have a bank account for the monthly Direct Debit payments. You'll also need an email address you access regularly because your bills will be sent to you by email.

I sure as hell hope this isn't the case, i want an iphone on a monthly tariff and i'm only 17, i think maybe he may have got confused about the 18 month contract as being over 18 isn't on the terms and conditions for the original iphone, it won't be a major problem i'll just have to get my rents to do it on their account

 

[phalewhale]

i emailed O2 regarding the iphone and apparently you don't have to activate instore:


I was also very surprised about this part:


I sure as hell hope this isn't the case, i want an iphone on a monthly tariff and i'm only 17, i think maybe he may have got confused about the 18 month contract as being over 18 isn't on the terms and conditions for the original iphone, it won't be a major problem i'll just have to get my rents to do it on their account

Not activating in store is good... Do we have 30 days to activate the phone as our friends in the US do?

EDIT: You do have to be over 18. Sorry dude. I'm fairly certain this is the case with any pay monthly contract in the UK.

 

[Macmadant]

Not activating in store is good... Do we have 30 days to activate the phone as our friends in the US do?

He didn't mention a specific time frame but i imagine it would be similar to that.

 

[The Phazer]

I sure as hell hope this isn't the case, i want an iphone on a monthly tariff and i'm only 17, i think maybe he may have got confused about the 18 month contract as being over 18 isn't on the terms and conditions for the original iphone, it won't be a major problem i'll just have to get my rents to do it on their account

Being 17 you can't sign a legally binding credit agreement, so you won't get any contract phone with any provider, period.

Phazer

 

[phalewhale]

Being 17 you can't sign a legally binding credit agreement, so you won't get any contract phone with any provider, period.

Phazer

PAYG iPhone3G for you fella. Unless you're 18 before 11 July! Alternatively, you could get a parent to get the contract in their name. They could hand it over to you when you reach legal age. I'm fairly certain this is OK to do.