Cookie18
macrumors 6502a
Took me two seconds to put this together, $913 and it would play games better than an iMac with a 5700 XT. It’s really freaking easy.
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10 Core 5700 XT Benchmarks
- Thread starter BuCkDoG
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Took me two seconds to put this together, $913 and it would play games better than an iMac with a 5700 XT. It’s really freaking easy.
pcpartpicker.com
Took me two seconds to put this together, $913 and it would play games better than an iMac with a 5700 XT. It’s really freaking easy.
System Builder
all good if you know how to put It all together correctly.
However I agree with you, for certain tasks it is better to have a separate box [which I have for rendering - both CPU and GPU so is a bit of a beast.....].
When I did any rendering on my iMac previously the fans went berserk Plus the GPU was average [like the 5700 Is now].
No one computer does it all unfortunately and is something I have come to realise.
Imac = great all round computer [but isn’t portable and struggles when pushed]
Macbookpro = great reasonable powered portable [but is underpowered and has bad cooling]
Mac Pro = $$$$$
Macbook air = great portability [slow]
Ipad pro = super fast and portable [no macos]
The list goes on. I can actually justify a Hardcore PC, iMac, MacBook Pro, air and iPads plus phone. They all do something better than the other.
its all fun 🙂
I keep hearing this argument but I don't quite understand it. A unibody iMac is dead-end by design. You can't upgrade the internal components beyond the RAM, so what's lost by the arrival of Apple Silicon versions? Surely only desktop towers are the only things upgradable enough for future expandability to be any kind of a concern?
this is true, however you can bet that Apple will go full on support and develop only for AS where as Intel will get left behind in the next 2 years max. Happened before and will happen again.
Apple always looks forward and not back. This is why I am also not buying any more intel Macs.
Easily upgrade should be the operative word. Up until now you can open up the iMac to upgrade it. I previously opened up my late 2012 27" iMac to upgrade from the fusion drive. I swapped out the 128GB blade SSD with a 768GB blade, removed the HDD and put in a 2.5" 500GB SATA SSD. I also upgraded the network card from the installed one (was limited to 802.11N) and installed one from the 2013 iMac (uses 802.11AC). I also would have swapped the CPU, but it already had the top end i7-3770 for that model.
Took me two seconds to put this together, $913 and it would play games better than an iMac with a 5700 XT. It’s really freaking easy.
System Builder
This list does not contain a 5k monitor, which alone is worth at least $1000. Also, the iMac uses an NVMe SSD, whereas you included a slower SATA SSD. Also, you can't run macOS on that hardware. So you're comparing apples and oranges ;-)
Cookie18
macrumors 6502a
Lol, I was waiting for someone who didn’t read everything to reply with this. Nobody is saying that is a replacement for an iMac. OP wanted to upgrade their perfectly good iMac so they could play games better. It has been mentioned a few times that they should just keep their iMac and build a separate gaming PC if that’s what they want it for because they’d spend a fraction of the price and they’d have the best of both worlds.
Also, lol at having a 5K screen on a gaming PC anyway. That would be entirely pointless because nothing can play games in 5K. Everybody knows that the best type of monitor for gaming is something 1080P/144HZ or 1440P/144HZ 😉
FYI, you can add a faster NVME SSD than the iMac has and still be under budget.
Cookie18
macrumors 6502a
Exactly! I have practically everything for that exact reason lol. There’s no point, in my opinion, trying to make one device do everything when there are better options for each specific task.
Spk1
macrumors member
That's actually impressive. I've gone to other build-your-own sites and not found anything near that price for those specs.Took me two seconds to put this together, $913 and it would play games better than an iMac with a 5700 XT. It’s really freaking easy.
System Builder
There is a warning, though, about parts compatibility, so....
- Warning!Some AMD B450 chipset motherboards may need a BIOS update prior to using Matisse CPUs. Upgrading the BIOS may require a different CPU that is supported by older BIOS revisions.
- Warning!be quiet! Pure Power 11 350 W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply may not provide sufficient wattage. The estimated part list maximum power draw is 354W.
- Note:NZXT H510 ATX Mid Tower Case has a front panel USB 3.2 Gen 2 Type C port, but the Gigabyte B450M DS3H Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard does not have sufficient USB 3.2 Gen 2 or Gen 1 headers. The case USB 3.2 Gen 2 Type C port will not be usable.
- Note:Some physical dimension restrictions cannot (yet) be automatically checked, such as cpu cooler / RAM clearance with modules using tall heat spreaders.
Not everybody wants to build their own PC, let alone have a second computer in their place taking up space. You also need to pick up a second monitor and make sure you have the space for it as well.
Having everything in one machine can be a great boon.
I love PC building (currently have a Ryzen 3900X/X570 Aorus Master/32GB/1TB (x2) Samsung 960 Pro/Sapphire 5700XT Nitro+), but I still have my iMac (2012 27") hooked up to my 32" monitor as well and use my 16" MBP for portability. Not everybody wants extra computers around the house.
Cookie18
macrumors 6502a
The warnings on PC part picker are overzealous, although I did choose the wrong PSU. The case and PSU can be anything, they’re pretty standard prices. You can sub in any other case or PSU for those prices and get the right spec. That case is actually a little over what you can find a good case for. They also always have the first and last warnings even though they’re completely irrelevant.
Cookie18
macrumors 6502a
Nobody is saying people have to build their own PC or have to have multiple PCs. OP is asking for advice and people gave relevant advice for what OP wanted (to play games better).
Spk1
macrumors member
Fair enough. (Ryzen 5 though? Really?) But I would think, if you're at least a semi-serious gamer, $1,000 isn't going to get you your PC. What I've been able to spec for $1,000 without monitor, keyboard and mouse will not perform as well as the specs I'm on my new iMac. So why spend the money then on a separate gaming machine?
I would say a reasonable machine that will perform at least as well as the new iMac (at least mine) starts at about $1,500. But that's still not out of this world, and I think the point you're making is that if you like Macs, and can get away with the base model, and you like to game, then buy both. And I agree. You can always upgrade the PC for gaming, not so the former. However, if I'm buying the i7 with the 5700XT and I like to game a bit, then I'm fine for a good while.
Long term, if I really like to game, a separate PC makes sense from the upgrade perspective, so spend the money. But I think unless you want a decent rig, and you've already got a decent Mac, then I think a PC gaming machine is a waste of money. Certainly if you tend to upgrade your Mac every 3 years or so.
Cookie18
macrumors 6502a
The Ryzen 5 3600 is the bestselling processor right now because it’s great value and great for gaming. AMD processors are outselling Intel processors because they’re much better these days. The PC components I added above would build a much better gaming computer than the highest end iMac. The 5700 XT isn’t really that great of a card, it’s good for the money but it doesn’t outperform the 2070 that I added above. If we actually took the price up to $1000 you could get a 2070 Super which really outperforms the 5700 XT.
Also, games these days are far more GPU limited than CPU limited. You really don’t need a Ryzen 7 or i7 to play at the highest settings because the GPUs are doing all of the heavy lifting and that’s where the iMac for gaming proposition falls down. The 5700 XT is a $300 GPU and it just doesn’t outperform the other options. For gaming it’s borderline entry level. The $1000 PC I put together (with the right PSU this time lol) with a 2070 Super to take it up to $1000 would absolutely outperform the highest config iMac in games.
I think we’re getting a little off topic but to your last point, that’s exactly what was being recommended. The OP already has a decent iMac that doesn’t need upgrading and the benefit that they will get for games won’t be that huge. That’s why a separate gaming PC was recommended, so OP didn’t spend $3000-4000 if they didn’t need to. I absolutely agree that not everybody wants to or needs to do that. At the end of the day a 5700 XT in the highest end iMac will play games completely competently. It was just the OPs specific situation which is why a gaming PC seemed like a better option, until they said they wanted only one system and they wanted the last Intel iMac specifically.
carlos700
macrumors 6502
A Core i9 10900K will readily outperform a 3600-especially for gaming where Intel is still king. And the RX 5700 XT is just more or less the same as a RTX 2070. Now the RTX 2070 Super is faster. Now I'll argue that $449 is probably too high for the RX 5700 XT but graphics cards as a whole have gone up in price. Mid-range cards aren't $169 anymore.
For Comparison the Radeon Pro 580 in the 2017 5k iMac scored around 1100 so this thing is an absolute beast of a GPU.
Cookie18
macrumors 6502a
Of course the i9 will outperform the 3600 but the point is that it is irrelevant if the GPU isn't better, because most games rely on the GPU these days. You can get away with a slower processor without having a bottleneck because games aren't taking advantage of the improvements in CPU technology from the last few years. There's a reason why quad core CPUs are still the highest percentage of CPUs on Steam. The GPU is vastly more important.
You're right that the 2070 is only slightly better than the 5700 XT but for the $1000 we've been discussing the 2070 Super easily fits into the budget and you can therefore get better results in games for the aforementioned budget.
Cookie18
macrumors 6502a
It is much much better than the 580, the 580 was AMDs mid tier card and the 5700 XT is their highest end gaming card. It's much better than the GPU offerings have been in the regular iMacs for the past few years.
Agreed. I plan to sell my 2017 iMac and upgrade to this new machine within the week.
carlos700
macrumors 6502
Which is a problem for AMD that they can't lower the price of the 5700 XT. At this point, a year after launch, it should be firmly around $350 if not lower. Not $400-$450.
filmgirl
macrumors 6502
I think it’s less “can’t” and more “doesn’t have to yet.” The MSRP is $399. The fact that the pandemic has made it harder to source a graphics card and raised the price isn’t AMD’s fault. In fact, Best Buy has a variant for $369 right now.
The next Navi card will be out soon and I’m sure the price will go down more, but Nvidia hasn’t lowered the prices on its 2019 cards so I’m not surprised AMD hasn’t either. Yes, a 2070 Super is a better performing card in a lot of tests, but it’s $100 more MSRP.
filmgirl
macrumors 6502
Look, you can spec out an equally performing gaming system for about $1000 — I’ll grant you that. But you’re making a number of compromises to get there — that B450 motherboard is a bad buy. Way better to spend more on an X470 or X570 board. The storage is slow — again, add another $100 to get NVMe in addition to the mechanical for large games.
Also, your build is going to use the stock cooler — which is fine I guess, but I’d also budget $100 for either a Noctua or an AIO, as well as a few case fans.
So realistically, you need to be at about $1300 pre shipping/tax whatever. That’s still a lot cheaper to be clear, but for an all-in-one, the 10-core/5700XT isn’t a bad deal for the 5K monitor. Most gamers will need to buy a higher refresh 1440p monitor for either system.
If you go part for part, the iMac is a good value — but most people don’t need to go part for part and can build a much less expensive machine with comparable gaming performance. That doesn’t change the fact that this is the most competitive gaming system we’ve seen from Apple in legit years.
Also, your build is going to use the stock cooler — which is fine I guess, but I’d also budget $100 for either a Noctua or an AIO, as well as a few case fans.
So realistically, you need to be at about $1300 pre shipping/tax whatever. That’s still a lot cheaper to be clear, but for an all-in-one, the 10-core/5700XT isn’t a bad deal for the 5K monitor. Most gamers will need to buy a higher refresh 1440p monitor for either system.
If you go part for part, the iMac is a good value — but most people don’t need to go part for part and can build a much less expensive machine with comparable gaming performance. That doesn’t change the fact that this is the most competitive gaming system we’ve seen from Apple in legit years.
Cookie18
macrumors 6502a
A B450 motherboard is in no way a bad buy. It only got replaced by the B550 this summer, you still mostly can’t even find the B550 in stock yet. You can do practically everything you need to do with a B450, there’s very little that it doesn’t support that a X470 or X570 does support. For the majority of gamers a B450 or B550 is absolutely fine.
Ryzen CPUs don’t need 3rd party coolers.
And sure you can go for whatever SSD/HDD configuration you want but that’s kind of the point, you can choose what you like in a gaming PC.
You don’t have to spend $1000 to have a very good gaming PC, you can also spend $3000 if you prefer. However, this is all semantics at this point. Nobody is arguing that an iMac isn’t good for games, nobody is arguing that OP shouldn’t get a new iMac. It does seem like anybody having the gall to recommend something other than an Apple computer for gaming has hit a few nerves though.
We can discuss the merits of X part vs Y part all day but it isn’t adding to the discussion in this thread.