12" Macbook - Disappointment and Hope

[bjet767]

My MBA 2010 had the extra video chip, but when compared to the 2014 I replaced it with the overall, including video, performance was light years behind the current version.

I am also reading here that many of you have the charger plugged into your Air all time time. Except when at home or in a Hotel room I never have the charger plugged in. I normally get over 6 hours of steady use with the 2014 model and when I had the 2010 model I got 4 hours of use prior to see about 25% of the battery left.

I admit with the 2010 I would run the battery down to the point where I got the warning to save files and or plug in. With the 2014 version I only get that if I have multiple days (at least 2) where I don't charge between uses.

Today at the coffee shop I did see multiple Air, 11" and 13," users who were plugged into their charger. I don't get it really, because even the oldest versions have enough power for at least 4 hours. Maybe personalities are such people worry about running out of battery power when they are the busiest?

I think you can tell I'm a power user of my mac devices. I use the iCloud drive now for almost all my work, a replacement for drop box which, I used before the iCloud drive was improved. So far it works as advertised, I can work in a foreign place and then tap into the same files from my desktop. It even worked on the airplane using the onboard WIFI.

It's a connected world!

Responses:

1. I use the BT Magic mouse with both my Macs and have done so since they came out. Why use plug in dongle?

2. Dropped memory cards a long time ago when drop box and now iCloud drive came into being.

4. The M class is slower, now question than the previous version. I would bet money that most here would never notice the difference when side by side. Additionally many of you seem to have an older version of the Air, pre 2014 update, and those are probably even slower than the new 1.3 M MB (unless you hopped on the i7 version).

5. I can't convince anyone who is fashionably against this new MB of anything because you will find a way to hate it.

6. Yes it is expensive! But compared to the $500 Lenovo I used for 3 months in 2014 it is... well there's no comparison. BTW this Lenovo (new in 12/2012) advertised 2 hours on battery but reality 45 minutes of any normal use and there was no oversized battery available. Yep it was tethered to the charger and it didn't have a mag-safe.

7. The problem with the X13 is this, Windows (no version is really as trouble free as any version of OSX) and a very clunky integration with everything else. Yes I still Windows when needed, I even used to write code for it.

However, Apple does require a premium outlay and that is why my desktop is a mini and not a Pro. Inspight of the options offered in those models my pockbook would rather spend the premium $$$ on the portable stuff.

 

[motrek]

In October 2007 I got a ThinkPad T61p with a 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo T7700. I think it was the fastest ThinkPad at the time and one of the fastest laptops out there.

The original Air came out shortly after, in January 2008, and you could get a lower voltage P7700 clocked at 1.8GHz, but with a SSD, which was an awesome option. Otherwise I'm pretty sure it was the same CPU technology, and certainly memory (DDR2 667) and bus speed (800).

So it wasn't quite on par with the state of the art but certainly I don't think it was a dog, performance wise. I tried it at the time and really liked it, but I had just bought a laptop.

The problem was that the original Air didn't have enough cooling and after a while the processor would start thermal throttling pretty bad. And not the graceful throttling we have today--it would run less than half as fast as advertised.

If you just used one for a few minutes you probably wouldn't have noticed this.

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...
Today at the coffee shop I did see multiple Air, 11" and 13," users who were plugged into their charger. I don't get it really, because even the oldest versions have enough power for at least 4 hours. Maybe personalities are such people worry about running out of battery power when they are the busiest? ...

I plug my laptop in whenever it's convenient. No need to put wear on the battery if you don't have to. Doesn't matter how long the battery lasts or how much it's already charged.

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Nonsense, the rMBP13" is only slightly bigger the the new 12" and even smaller than the MBA13". Nobody complained about the portability of the latter !!

Lots of 11" MBA users complain about the portability of any 13" MacBook, myself included. I'd never buy one.

The new MacBook is significantly smaller and lighter than even the 11" MBA so it's MUCH smaller and lighter than the rMBP.

Seriously, the rMBP is what, 3.5 lbs? That's almost twice the weight of the new MacBook.

 

[bjet767]

"I plug my laptop in whenever it's convenient. No need to put wear on the battery if you don't have to. Doesn't matter how long the battery lasts or how much it's already charged."

Apple states they designed for at least 1000 charge cycles before the batteries reach 80% capacity.

OK charge every day from minimum a thousand times = 2.7 or so years until the battery reaches 80%. Apple believes this number is actually about 5 years of normal use. I know this, I don't charge every day so I'm sure 5 years would be about right for me. At that point I will have another unit.

Works for me.

 

[symphara]

Nonsense, the rMBP13" is only slightly bigger the the new 12" and even smaller than the MBA13". Nobody complained about the portability of the latter !!

A laptop is not a two-dimensional object. The 13" Pro is not only thicker but has the same thickness throughout, while the Air is tapered off. Which incidentally makes it lovely to type on when placed on a desk. Plus, the Pro has an extra pound of weight on top of the Air, and doesn't quite compare to the new 12".

It's an ok laptop but personally I don't consider it very portable. I had a 13" Vaio S in 2006 which was only marginally bigger than today's 13" Pro. For a 2015 laptop, it's not that great. Certainly you can find several better options out there. In my opinion, of course.

 

[motrek]

"I plug my laptop in whenever it's convenient. No need to put wear on the battery if you don't have to. Doesn't matter how long the battery lasts or how much it's already charged."

Apple states they designed for at least 1000 charge cycles before the batteries reach 80% capacity.

OK charge every day from minimum a thousand times = 2.7 or so years until the battery reaches 80%. Apple believes this number is actually about 5 years of normal use. I know this, I don't charge every day so I'm sure 5 years would be about right for me. At that point I will have another unit.

Works for me.

Sure, I won't tell you how to use your computer. It's yours and you can do what you want with it.

I'm just trying to explain why people might want to have their laptops plugged in as much as possible.

Personally I had a 2010 MBA and used it for 4 years. When I sold it, its battery health was significantly above 80% and I was able to get a good price for it partially because of that.

If I had put it through a charge cycle every day, who knows how much battery capacity it would have had left. I might not have been able to sell it for as much and it certainly wouldn't have been super great for the buyer.

So if you use your laptop for a few years and just toss it, then it really makes no difference how you use your battery. But if you are interested in resale value or just not wearing things out if you don't have to, then you might consider plugging it in a bit more.

 

[bobr1952]

Right now there is really nothing to compare this with--a more prudent approach would be to see what if anything is done to the Air and Pro lines before anyone can really list deficiencies with this MacBook. As someone else mentioned, this really can only be compared to the old MacBook line which of course this MacBook is totally different--and indeed as someone else mentioned, this could be considered by some as a prototype.

 

[symphara]

The problem was that the original Air didn't have enough cooling and after a while the processor would start thermal throttling pretty bad. And not the graceful throttling we have today--it would run less than half as fast as advertised.

If you just used one for a few minutes you probably wouldn't have noticed this.

That's true. At the time it seemed fine, the specification was good, and I was very impressed with the SSD. It was not even an option on the best ThinkPad money could buy.

I got an Air as soon as the ThinkPad got too slow for my work, and apart from the screen and the OS updates (it was the fastest and most stable with the original Lion) I think it's been by far the best laptop I've worked with, but now it's long in the tooth.

 

[NathanA]

So it wasn't quite on par with the state of the art but certainly I don't think it was a dog, performance wise.

The problem was that the original Air didn't have enough cooling and after a while the processor would start thermal throttling pretty bad. And not the graceful throttling we have today--it would run less than half as fast as advertised.

^^^ This. I owned a 2008 with the 1.6GHz CPU and the hard drive. It was SO easy to trip the thermal throttling on that machine it isn't even funny. And the graphics were super-sad. (Super-easy way to cause the machine to throttle itself and the fans to kick into high gear: stream Netflix on it. Just painful.)

But this really is missing the point of this whole discussion and why I brought up the original MBA in the first place. The point isn't to berate the original model for its poor performance or its equally poor price-to-performance ratio. The point was actually to praise Apple for how quickly and aggressively they took the Air product line and made it into what it is today. But they had to start somewhere, and often the v1.0 product really is optimized more for early adopters than the everyday user. The new MacBook is much like the original Air in this respect, but I'm sure it will get better, and probably more quickly than most of us would be willing to bet.

-- Nathan

 

[newellj]

Makes sense. I already keep all my entertainment media on my mac min anyway, but this doesn't solve the magsafe problem. For myself the magsafe is one of the wonders of a mac. I broke my two previous laptops, because someone tripped over the wire. I will not buy a 1.5k laptop without a ****ing magsafe on it! I am really surprised that noone is shocked about this.

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Adobe Lightroom is not ressource intensive and with the retina display the rMB makes a lot of sense for photographers. Is the core m really that weak?
What professional DSLR tethers raws via wifi?

I am still into fixed local storage on wires for media but I'm a dino.

I agree on magsafe, emphatically.

Lightroom is not a full-time hog, but depending on how many edits a photo has, repaints can be time-consuming on a slow machine, and if you want to export a couple of hundred photos you're going to peg the machine for a while.

 

[symphara]

I can't convince anyone who is fashionably against this new MB of anything because you will find a way to hate it.

I don't think this particular thread has been as much about "hating" the new 12", it's just that this new product doesn't really seem to replace the Air at all. It's something else altogether, an ultraportable laptop with some rather severe shortcomings.

To me this product, otherwise lovely looking, is closer to an iPad + keyboard combo running OSX.

If you need to buy a Core i7, the Core M won't do at all. And to give you just an example from your list, I don't want a "Magic Mouse" (ridiculous name), Bluetooth or not - I find them awkward and I already have a superb USB Logitech G7.

Even with people for whom this new laptop would be suited, I think it's harsh to expect them to replace and redo, at significant cost, all the hardware and software ecosystem of their laptop arrangement, just because this very expensive new machine breaks completely with the past.

The Retina Air is a product many of us were looking forward to, and now it's understandable that we're a little shaken by the new direction.

 

[theSeb]

There is no Macbook Air Retina. There is a Macbook. Should people not be discussing it in that section?

 

[philxor]

I don't think this particular thread has been as much about "hating" the new 12", it's just that this new product doesn't really seem to replace the Air at all. It's something else altogether, an ultraportable laptop with some rather severe shortcomings.

To me this product, otherwise lovely looking, is closer to an iPad + keyboard combo running OSX.

If you need to buy a Core i7, the Core M won't do at all. And to give you just an example from your list, I don't want a "Magic Mouse" (ridiculous name), Bluetooth or not - I find them awkward and I already have a superb USB Logitech G7.

Even with people for whom this new laptop would be suited, I think it's harsh to expect them to replace and redo, at significant cost, all the hardware and software ecosystem of their laptop arrangement, just because this very expensive new machine breaks completely with the past.

The Retina Air is a product many of us were looking forward to, and now it's understandable that we're a little shaken by the new direction.

+1. I was ready to trade in my 2013 MBP for a 12.9" MBA with a decent modern processor and 8GB of RAM. Now I don't think this new product is going to replace the MBA, hence the reason they didn't call it a MBA, but it's going to be awhile longer until a new MBA comes along. The "Macbook" has for a long time now been the low powered one in the lineup.

 

[Ulenspiegel]

I don't think this particular thread has been as much about "hating" the new 12", it's just that this new product doesn't really seem to replace the Air at all. It's something else altogether, an ultraportable laptop with some rather severe shortcomings...

Very well formulated. Nobody hates it. We just share what we think about it. To me it seems to be a "FashionBook" and not a MacBook.

 

[bjet767]

Symphra:

"Even with people for whom this new laptop would be suited, I think it's harsh to expect them to replace and redo, at significant cost, all the hardware and software ecosystem of their laptop arrangement, just because this very expensive new machine breaks completely with the past."

OK I've been computing since the days of the Trash80, written code with punch cards on mainframes and have spent a boat load of money keeping up with the tide of changes. So I'm really not very sympathetic at all with such arguments.

Facts:

1. Big floppies became small floppies.
2. 8 Tracks became cassettes.
3. Floppies became hard cased floppies (Apple innovated).
4. Hard floppies became optical (Next computer, Jobs/ Apple)
5. Cassettes became CDs.
6. CDs became mp3s.
7. mp3s led to iPods.
8. iPods now phones and tablets.
9. LAN routers led to wireless routers (skip the whole dial up net thing)


It goes on and on and on.

This new MB is a reflection of what will be the standard and yest it does cost you. At some point, like the iPad 1, there will be zero support for your stuff and it will just join the recycle bin like my old computers did.

Facts of computing life. Some might feel sorry that the old stuff did propagate to the new like some wanted.

 

[symphara]

This new MB is a reflection of what will be the standard and yest it does cost you. At some point, like the iPad 1, there will be zero support for your stuff and it will just join the recycle bin like my old computers did.

Facts of computing life. Some might feel sorry that the old stuff did propagate to the new like some wanted.

You have no idea if USB-C will become a widely adopted standard. It's hard to predict. Thunderbolt didn't, and the magneto-optical technology you mention in your list was a complete failure as mass-consumer technology.

Apple didn't "innovate" the hard-plastic covered floppy, which was based on a Sony design - the standard was agreed on and widely adopted by the industry. Apple merely jumped on the bandwagon early.

The hard plastic floppy was progress, for consumers. The storage density allowed miniaturisation, which made the discs smaller and thus more manageable. The switch to USB-C isn't necessarily something to benefit the customers, as some of those things in your big list, but something to benefit Apple. It probably made the new laptop easier to design, cheaper in components cost, and easier to assemble.

Dongles aren't much of a progress at all, and when you need a dongle to merely connect your new laptop to a monitor, that's a step back.

 

[moxxey]

I think most people are pissed off about the lack of ports.

Most? Really? A few posts here and there and you claim "most"?

It's exactly what we expected based on artist mockups from earlier this year. It's basically a ultra-portable 'netbook' and is ideal for me.

When I travel on business, for a day or longer, I want the lightest and smallest laptop to access email, do some work, access remote files and so on. I own a 11" Air, but would prefer this 12" MacBook, primarily for the screen.

The only connection I need, regularly, is a headphone socket. Don't even need this with bluetooth wire-free headphones!

 

[Razeus]

I'd get one as a 2nd computer, not my main. Without an SD card slot, this thing is useless. I'm not going to pay an extra $79 for some USB-C adapter to get my SD cards to load.

Battery life is good so the single USB slot is ok.

 

[powersteer]

The new Macbook is everything i want.

But, a few bummers here:

Why is the USB port 3.1 Gen 1 instead of Gen 2? WTF Apple!!!!!
Why not have another USB port on the right side?
Why not have a 13" screen in a slightly bigger chassis?

and ...

Where is the GOD accessory for the Macbook??; the new USB-C 4k monitor. single cable dock, with built-in USB 3.1 Type A, Gigabit Ethernet (c'mon wow us with 10Gbe!), Thunderbolt, SD card slot ...

 

[bjet767]

symphara

If you read my post it's not about who designed what, it's about the changing computer market. The optical hard drives never panned out out because of the speed. Where optical drives found their place is the cd/dvd RW capable external or internal drives for storage, archive and data transfer. These drives drove the floppy out of the market.

For the time being the old USB 1(A) (notice the USB 2(B), while used on devices is not the standard) port will remain the standard. However, this is about selling product and unless there is a major market revolt the USB C will most likely now become the standard.

My point is this, the personal computer world has clearly moved to portability and connectivity and any company or person who thinks otherwise will go the way of the Trash 80, C64 and others.

I my opinion the only real issue which may hold up sales of the 12" MB; price.

There is a point of price resistance, and I'm sure the Apple people debated this to extremes, does the 12" MB push or exceed this? One poster on another thread said it is comparable with the other models, but that assumes the 12" buyer would rather have the raw portability over the other features the 13" Air and rMBP offer.

The people who will not buy the air or MB are those whom the $600 iPad is the limit. These people will buy the Lenovos and Dell products with a similar price point.

My prediction is still this:

By summer 2015 the coffee shops will be filled with them.

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Razeus

"Without an SD card slot, this thing is useless."

Useless? You guys all make these broad brushed statements that make little sense. What do you use the SD card for and why is it so essential the device is useless.

These statements are the same as though who state, the MB M processor seriously restricts the programs which will run well on it. What programs will be crippled or restricted in how they run?

If you use an SD every day then you didn't like the 11" MBA either...

 

[Sirolway]

Also there's no adapter yet to connect Ethernet.

And what am I going to do with my old SCSI drives?!

 

[symphara]

If you read my post it's not about who designed what, it's about the changing computer market. The optical hard drives never panned out out because of the speed. Where optical drives found their place is the cd/dvd RW capable external or internal drives for storage, archive and data transfer. These drives drove the floppy out of the market.

The computer market changes like any other market, i.e. when companies solve real problems that consumers have.

The presence of a single USB-C port is no such thing. At no point have I told myself "if only my laptop had nothing else but one port, to connect everything with a web of cables, expensive dongles, adaptors and hubs, that'd be wonderful", and I suspect nobody else did either.

And at no point will consumers say "I shall spend $$$ to change my monitor, my mouse etc with a functionally identical one, just because it has this new interface that does nothing different for me".

USB solved a real problem. USB-C doesn't. USB 3.0 and DisplayPort are pretty much good enough.

This isn't progress, and if the new 12" catches on, it will be despite its inconvenient single USB-C port, not because of it.

Anyway I'm not sure why you're debating this with me - I have not the slightest interest in the new Macbook, for reasons I stated before. In fact I only posted in this thread in the context of the Air's display not being updated.

 

[PeterJP]

I have had an rMBP for the last year and it's an awesome machine. But what some say here is true: I don't carry it everywhere because it's big and heavy. It requires a laptop bag with a few layers of neoprene.

But I use it in exactly the way that Apple had in mind when designing this new MacBook. I almost never plug it in while using it. MagSafe has no added value for me: after a day's work using virtual machines on an external screen (with wireless mouse&keyboard), the laptop goes home to charge. I can count on one hand the number of times I ran out of battery life during the day. So if I get the choice between carrying a power supply or a dongle, the choice is easy: the dongle is always smaller & lighter. And those dongles will go away: USB-C isn't something cooked up by Apple & a few others, like FireWire and Thunderbolt. It will be supported by third parties.

The MacBook weighs about half of the rMBP (900 vs 1600gr) -- carrying the rMPB is like carrying the MacBook, an iPad Air AND an iPad mini at the same time. The size of the MacBook with a neoprene cover is the same as the size of the rMBP without one. It makes all the difference.

Will I buy one? Very unlikely. The price hikes in Europe ("strong dollar") mean that the lowest model almost cost as much as my 8/256 rMBP. I'm hoping the upgrade to SkyLake, most likely in 2016, will also drop prices. Extending the battery life even further couldn't hurt, either, for those few occasions where I need it. But just supposing Apple would agree on me swapping my rMBP (to sell as a refurb) for the new MacBook, I could get tempted...

 

[zhenya]

The computer market changes like any other market, i.e. when companies solve real problems that consumers have.

The presence of a single USB-C port is no such thing. At no point have I told myself "if only my laptop had nothing else but one port, to connect everything with a web of cables, expensive dongles, adaptors and hubs, that'd be wonderful", and I suspect nobody else did either.

And at no point will consumers say "I shall spend $$$ to change my monitor, my mouse etc with a functionally identical one, just because it has this new interface that does nothing different for me".

USB solved a real problem. USB-C doesn't. USB 3.0 and DisplayPort are pretty much good enough.

This isn't progress, and if the new 12" catches on, it will be despite its inconvenient single USB-C port, not because of it.

Anyway I'm not sure why you're debating this with me - I have not the slightest interest in the new Macbook, for reasons I stated before. In fact I only posted in this thread in the context of the Air's display not being updated.

You have managed to entirely miss the point. USB-C allows for docking with the peripherals you already own via a single cable. Few people really have a need for their ports when they are mobile. Keeping a small 1oz adapter in their bag will give them what they need on those rare occasions. When you are at home or at the office, USB-C will allow you to connect to a docking station that has connections for your mouse, keyboard, monitor(s), drives, and power all via a single cable.

USB-C is going to be a huge, huge hit.

 

[NT1440]

You have no idea if USB-C will become a widely adopted standard.

....

It's been developed by a consortium of all the big players in the computing world. This WILL be a standard.

 

[symphara]

You have managed to entirely miss the point. USB-C allows for docking with the peripherals you already own via a single cable. Few people really have a need for their ports when they are mobile. Keeping a small 1oz adapter in their bag will give them what they need on those rare occasions. When you are at home or at the office, USB-C will allow you to connect to a docking station that has connections for your mouse, keyboard, monitor(s), drives, and power all via a single cable.

USB-C is going to be a huge, huge hit.

I didn't miss the point, I just disagree with it. It's solving a problem I don't have and creating more steps for common setup scenarios in a conference room, to charge a phone etc.

As for USB-C being a huge, huge hit, that's just speculation.

....

It's been developed by a consortium of all the big players in the computing world. This WILL be a standard.

The wonderful thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from.

Anyway, USB-C catching on or not is irrelevant to me. I am not choosing to pass on this machine because of it (although I do see it as a clear inconvenience).