12" Macbook - Disappointment and Hope

[AustinIllini]

Hello,

I've been a die-hard Mac user for years but I've never been so annoyed and frustrated at Apple as I am right now all because of a stupid USB-C port on the new Macbook. Out of the box the new Macbook is useless. The Macbook needs adapters for just about everything. It defeats the purpose of having a super portable and mobile laptop when you have to carry all those extra adapters crap around. Very counter-productive. I work with and use external devices all day for audio and video and for backing up my projects. The new Macbook is not for me.

I can't think of the last time I used any cable to do any task. Maybe USB, but USB-C is the spiritual successor at this point, and we can expect accessories (portable hard drives, etc.) to have USB-C going forward.

Honestly, you're not the target audience for this device. Most end users use zero ports on a daily basis.

 

[pasadena]

Hello,

I've been a die-hard Mac user for years but I've never been so annoyed and frustrated at Apple as I am right now all because of a stupid USB-C port on the new Macbook. Out of the box the new Macbook is useless. The Macbook needs adapters for just about everything. It defeats the purpose of having a super portable and mobile laptop when you have to carry all those extra adapters crap around. Very counter-productive. I work with and use external devices all day for audio and video and for backing up my projects. The new Macbook is not for me.

But it doesn't defeat the purpose to carry all those extra peripherals ?

 

[Ulenspiegel]

...Most end users use zero ports on a daily basis.

Can you provide any reliable source to back this statement?

 

[AustinIllini]

Can you provide any reliable source to back this statement?

There is just so much historical precedence for what Apple is doing at this point. iPads are wildly popular for internet traffic. A huge portion of the Apple population uses the iPad as their primary computing device. Look at all the ports it has! Oh, wait, it doesn't.

Outside the desktop, the USB drive is another mobile port on the decline.

If you don't have a counter argument, it's not my responsibility to spell out common sense.

 

[Ulenspiegel]

There is just so much historical precedence for what Apple is doing at this point. iPads are wildly popular for internet traffic. A huge portion of the Apple population uses the iPad as their primary computing device. Look at all the ports it has! Oh, wait, it doesn't.

Outside the desktop, the USB drive is another mobile port on the decline.

If you don't have a counter argument, it's not my responsibility to spell out common sense.

You made an ex cathedra statement. If your source is "common sense", it is fair enough, but you should take into account that you might be faced with the same argument from now on.

 

[aandi]

There is just so much historical precedence for what Apple is doing at this point. iPads are wildly popular for internet traffic. A huge portion of the Apple population uses the iPad as their primary computing device. Look at all the ports it has! Oh, wait, it doesn't.

Outside the desktop, the USB drive is another mobile port on the decline.

If you don't have a counter argument, it's not my responsibility to spell out common sense.

How does huge portion of the Apple population uses ipad as "primary computing device"? Seriously. I'm curious about your definition of "computing".
Why do you say "Outside the desktop, the USB drive is another mobile port on the decline" while Apple still maintain all those ports in 2015 rMBP?

Anyway,,,, speaking of USB C as the future standard, why did Apple not replace one or two ports in 2015 rMBP with USB C? Does this machine has no future? Or Apple wants to do it next year as a new innovation?

 

[tmarks11]

So using your laptop primarily as plugged in (in the name of minimizing cycles on the battery) won't add up to months and years of time in that state?

No, because the battery is not at rest, and current is running through it. The intelligent battery charging algorithm stops charging when it approaches 100%, and only starts again when it is slightly discharged. A 2% DoD (Depth of Discharge) cycle is not going to kill your battery. In fact, a 10% DoD cycle will make you battery last longer than a 25% or 50% DoD cycle.

I am pretty sure that Apple already has defined 100% charged as being at an actual level of 98% of theoretical capacity (only charging to a cell voltage of 4.1V vs. the maximum of 4.2V). That contributes to the long battery life (predicted 1000 cycles vs. the 500 cycles they achieved on the 2009 MBA). They are already automatically doing the things that you want to do manually.

Except for limiting DoD, of course. If you really want your battery to last, than don't discharge it below 50%.
I have 4 year old LiIon batteries in my laptops still going strong. Without playing obsessive games with my laptop to try to make it last longer. All for a $99 battery... amortized, that is $25 per year. Not worth the extra care you are trying to make people take.

 

[AustinIllini]

How does huge portion of the Apple population uses ipad as "primary computing device"? Seriously. I'm curious about your definition of "computing".
Why do you say "Outside the desktop, the USB drive is another mobile port on the decline" while Apple still maintain all those ports in 2015 rMBP?

Anyway,,,, speaking of USB C as the future standard, why did Apple not replace one or two ports in 2015 rMBP with USB C? Does this machine has no future? Or Apple wants to do it next year as a new innovation?

Apple maintains those ports because they believe pro users will use them. They remove them from the Macbook because they know most non-pro users don't need them. My wife is an average user. She doesn't use any of her ports ever, honestly. That's who the rMB is geared towards.

This happens every time something is removed from a laptop.

"What will I do without my floppy drive?"
"What will I do without my optical drive?"
"What will I do without my ethernet port?"

Most users find out quickly that they do not use any of those ports.

Edit: Also, USB port-wise. The new port is equivalent to the USB 3.1 port on an MBP. They probably didn't feel the need to update it yet.

 

[tmarks11]

...speaking of USB C as the future standard, why did Apple not replace one or two ports in 2015 rMBP with USB C?

That is interesting. They approached usb-c as a charging standard for the MB12, but didn't add it to the 2015 rMBP 13 (which I had not noticed got updated until now). Maybe the usb-c on the MB12 is a shot across the bow of peripheral makers, and they will wait for industry to embrace this standard before transitioning their main product line.

They also didn't monkey with the design of the 2015 MBA by adding usb-c, but I suspect that is because the MBA is a product in the sunset of its existence. I bet this is the last year we will see a refresh of this product line. Apple isn't trying to push the envelop into the future because this product doesn't have a future.

Unfortunately, because the MBA rocks.

 

[Ulenspiegel]

No, because the battery is not at rest, and current is running through it. The intelligent battery charging algorithm stops charging when it approaches 100%, and only starts again when it is slightly discharged. A 2% DoD (Depth of Discharge) cycle is not going to kill your battery. In fact, a 10% DoD cycle will make you battery last longer than a 25% or 50% DoD cycle.

I am pretty sure that Apple already has defined 100% charged as being at an actual level of 98% of theoretical capacity (only charging to a cell voltage of 4.1V vs. the maximum of 4.2V). That contributes to the long battery life (predicted 1000 cycles vs. the 500 cycles they achieved on the 2009 MBA). They are already automatically doing the things that you want to do manually.

Except for limiting DoD, of course. If you really want your battery to last, than don't discharge it below 50%.
I have 4 year old LiIon batteries in my laptops still going strong. Without playing obsessive games with my laptop to try to make it last longer. All for a $99 battery... amortized, that is $25 per year. Not worth the extra care you are trying to make people take.

It was very useful to read, especially your own experience.
What would you consider an "ideal" battery management, apart from not discharging it below 50%? Will it be enough to discharge the battery once/twice a week/month to 50% or daily?
Thanks in advance for your answer.

 

[tmarks11]

What would you consider an "ideal" battery management, apart from not discharging it below 50%? Will it be enough to discharge the battery once/twice a week/month to 50% or daily?

My advice is not to worry about it too much. The battery only costs $99, and is simple to replace.

If I sit down to use the computer, I generally unplug it (for convenience), and plug it back in when I get down to about 40-50%. But not really because I am trying to save battery life.

If you really feel you want to do something proactive to make you battery last longer, then the best advice is: don't ever let your battery discharge below 20%. The occasional cycle down to 5 or 10% isn't going to matter, but routinely going down to that level is bad.

Actually, if you never discharge below 50%, you will add a year or longer to the life of your battery. But that kind of usage profile really kills the advantages of a laptop: its portability and the ability to operate for long term periods on battery only.

But again, we are talking about $99 spread out over 4 years...

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

Oh, and if you don't keep your laptop for at least 2-3 years, then feel free to abuse the battery as much as you want, because it will still have life in it when you are upgrading to a newer model.

 

[Ulenspiegel]

My advice is not to worry about it too much. The battery only costs $99, and is simple to replace.

If I sit down to use the computer, I generally unplug it (for convenience), and plug it back in when I get down to about 40-50%. But not really because I am trying to save battery life.

If you really feel you want to do something proactive to make you battery last longer, then the best advice is: don't ever let your battery discharge below 20%. The occasional cycle down to 5 or 10% isn't going to matter, but routinely going down to that level is bad.

Actually, if you never discharge below 50%, you will add a year or longer to the life of your battery. But that kind of usage profile really kills the advantages of a laptop: its portability and the ability to operate for long term periods on battery only.

But again, we are talking about $99 spread out over 4 years...

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

Oh, and if you don't keep your laptop for at least 2-3 years, then feel free to abuse the battery as much as you want, because it will still have life in it when you are upgrading to a newer model.

Thank you for the informative answer.

 

[DFZD]

I think if people keep complaining about about the magsafe port. Apple or some other company is eventually going to come out with a adaptor. So I say if you really really want it, make sure the whining never steps.
The best way would be to make a short video about why the step to drop magsafe is a bad idea, probably demonstrating it quite well. And then show the video to as many people as possible. And eventually magsafe adaptors might show up.

 

[matt2053]

My advice is not to worry about it too much. The battery only costs $99, and is simple to replace.

If I sit down to use the computer, I generally unplug it (for convenience), and plug it back in when I get down to about 40-50%. But not really because I am trying to save battery life.

If you really feel you want to do something proactive to make you battery last longer, then the best advice is: don't ever let your battery discharge below 20%. The occasional cycle down to 5 or 10% isn't going to matter, but routinely going down to that level is bad.

Actually, if you never discharge below 50%, you will add a year or longer to the life of your battery. But that kind of usage profile really kills the advantages of a laptop: its portability and the ability to operate for long term periods on battery only.

But again, we are talking about $99 spread out over 4 years...

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

Oh, and if you don't keep your laptop for at least 2-3 years, then feel free to abuse the battery as much as you want, because it will still have life in it when you are upgrading to a newer model.

$99 if you replace it yourself. But won't that void the warranty and/or AppleCare? If you want to keep your warranty and/or Apple Care eligabilty and you take your machine in to an Apple Store for a battery replacement, how much is that?

 

[tmarks11]

$99 if you replace it yourself. But won't that void the warranty and/or AppleCare? If you want to keep your warranty and/or Apple Care eligabilty and you take your machine in to an Apple Store for a battery replacement, how much is that?

yes... if you still have a warranty on a 4 year old laptop....

If you buy from Apple, the battery is $120... with free installation (whether or not you want them to install it). This was related on another thread recently; no personal experience, as I bought a cheap aftermarket battery.

Battery replacement on the MBA is simple... takes about 7 minutes all told. Easiest laptop to work on that I have ever had.

 

[iRun26.2]

That is interesting. They approached usb-c as a charging standard for the MB12, but didn't add it to the 2015 rMBP 13 (which I had not noticed got updated until now). Maybe the usb-c on the MB12 is a shot across the bow of peripheral makers, and they will wait for industry to embrace this standard before transitioning their main product line.

They also didn't monkey with the design of the 2015 MBA by adding usb-c, but I suspect that is because the MBA is a product in the sunset of its existence. I bet this is the last year we will see a refresh of this product line. Apple isn't trying to push the envelop into the future because this product doesn't have a future.

Unfortunately, because the MBA rocks.

I loved my MBA too (Rev A and the 2010 version) but the writing is on the wall. Their time looks limited.

If they did add a retina screen to the 11" MBA line, I would have a hard time not buying that to replace my rMB (unless it was heavier than the 12" rMB). I don't see that happening.

 

[gregvet]

I loved my MBA too (Rev A and the 2010 version) but the writing is on the wall. Their time looks limited.

If they did add a retina screen to the 11" MBA line, I would have a hard time not buying that to replace my rMB (unless it was heavier than the 12" rMB). I don't see that happening.

The 11" MBA is already heavier than the rMB, so would require a redesign to become the same or lighter than the rMB.

I can't see them doing a full on redesign of the MBA now, so squeezing a higher resolution screen in would be unlikely to make the MBA lighter, surely?

IMO it's not going to happen anyway, cos then there would be barely any argument for the rMB. The MB will gain another port or two, as well as get more powerful and better battery, and the MBA will be retired within three years.

 

[Chundles]

IMO it's not going to happen anyway, cos then there would be barely any argument for the rMB. The MB will gain another port or two, as well as get more powerful and better battery, and the MBA will be retired within three years.

Yep. The MacBook Air is now on borrowed time. The MacBook will get faster and cheaper, USB-C will become ubiquitous and the MacBook Air will be relegated to nostalgia.

 

[iRun26.2]

The 11" MBA is already heavier than the rMB, so would require a redesign to become the same or lighter than the rMB.

I can't see them doing a full on redesign of the MBA now, so squeezing a higher resolution screen in would be unlikely to make the MBA lighter, surely?

IMO it's not going to happen anyway, cos then there would be barely any argument for the rMB. The MB will gain another port or two, as well as get more powerful and better battery, and the MBA will be retired within three years.

It's a shame they are retiring the name. The new rMB should be call be called the "New rMBA"

 

[catalyst07]

I think people confuse the "Air" designation as meaning weight.


I think "Air" is meant as a stripped-down version– no dedicated graphics, fewer ports, etc. Similar to the impression you get from the word "Lite" instead of the full version.

 

[ET iPhone Home]

I'm going to miss a dedicated SD port and USB 3.0 port for flash drives I still use. I also have a superdrive I often use with my MBA. I'll have to see this in-person to make a decision.

Sony came out with a similar laptop years ago called X Series.

 

[Anonymous Freak]

I'm going to miss a dedicated SD port and USB 3.0 port for flash drives I still use. I also have a superdrive I often use with my MBA. I'll have to see this in-person to make a decision.

Sony came out with a similar laptop years ago called X Series.
Image

The X505 was the first in the "ultra-thin-and-light-at-the-expense-of-all-else" notebook.

In a strange parallel, it also shipped with a 1.1 GHz CPU. 11 years ago. (Yes, I know, vastly different than the CPU in the MacBook.) Weighed less at 1.8 lbs (as opposed to the MacBook's 2.0 lbs.) The MacBook is slightly wider, but shallower (a wider rectangle - which makes sense since the old Sony X505 had a 'standard' 4:3 ratio screen compared to the MacBook's wide screen.)

The X505 at its thinnest is nearly as thick as the thickest part of the MacBook - X505 ranges from 0.38 to 0.83 inches in thickness, where the MacBook goes from 0.14 to 0.52 inches thick.

The X505 does have the MacBook beat on number of ports, though - 2 USB plus a FireWire (hah!) in addition to the power port. It did need a dongle to get USB or Ethernet, though. One advantage: An expansion slot (PC Card) to add whatever device you wanted. Disadvantage: No built-in WiFi, but it did include an 802.11g PC Card in the box. The battery, however, was a dismal (although standard for the time) 3 hours.

Yes, I lusted over the X505 at the time - I had a near-predecessor, the Sony "PictureBook" C1X, one of the first "netbooks" - before the name was even coined.


To get to the point - no, the new MacBook is not for everyone. There are *MANY* people for whom this has too many compromises. If you can't live with just one USB port - this isn't for you, stop bitching about it. There are plenty of people for whom this notebook is a good fit, though. Why shouldn't those people get what they want? The Air exists for those who want full ports and a cheaper price. The Pro exists for people who want more fully featured and faster.

The MacBook exists for people willing to pay a little extra (over the Air) for maximum portability. If I were in the position to buy a new laptop now, I would buy the MacBook.

 

[macbook123]

It's not portable enough - my wife got one (a 13") from work about a month ago, I tried it and it's just too thick and heavy to carry everywhere (I travel a lot).

I was waiting for a retina Air, but now perhaps the new XPS 13, if they ever make one with Ubuntu...

+1, the MacBook disappointment made the Ubuntu XPS 13 on the horizon all the more attractive.

 

[Rogifan]

Apple could have crammed a zero-bezel 13" in this.. and thats why it's disappointing to me.. And the unfortunates is now this design is set in stone for at least 3-4 years before it changes so no hopes of a bezel-less 13" screen.

You'll get a bezel-less screen when you get a non-glossy multi touch screen which means probably never. Personally I think the XPS looks fugly.

 

[Mildredop]

I'm going to miss a dedicated SD port and USB 3.0 port for flash drives I still use. I also have a superdrive I often use with my MBA. I'll have to see this in-person to make a decision.

Sony came out with a similar laptop years ago called X Series.
Image

Similar to what? That is a lot thicker and heavier than a macbook.