13-Inch MacBook Pro With Scissor Keyboard Expected in First Half of 2020

[Zdigital2015]

Soldered DRAM is only really bad if they don't make the memory upgrade cost comparable to aftermarket upgrades.

I hope you know why soldered storage is bad, please spare me the "you should have backups" argument, because we all know how that goes..... even with the largest of corporations.

Storage SHOULD NOT be soldered on a laptop or desktop computer for any reason.

Okay, so soldered DRAM = GOOD, unless someone charges too much for it, then BAD and soldered STORAGE = BAD

You should have backups, because soldered or not, when storage goes, you're screwed. More screwed with replacing a logic board, granted, but you're equally screwed with no data.

My opinion, which I have mentioned in earlier posts in other threads, would be for Apple to settle on a physical format that they can use for all of their portable line and Mac mini moving forward that is socketed, similar to the iMac Pro and Mac Pro form factor and Apple have an official trade up program for storage within the 5-7 year period that Apple supports a given computer line up.

 

[1146331]

Okay, so soldered DRAM = GOOD, unless someone charges too much for it, then BAD and soldered STORAGE = BAD

You should have backups, because soldered or not, when storage goes, you're screwed. More screwed with replacing a logic board, granted, but you're equally screwed with no data.

My opinion, which I have mentioned in earlier posts in other threads, would be for Apple to settle on a physical format that they can use for all of their portable line and Mac mini moving forward that is socketed, similar to the iMac Pro and Mac Pro form factor and Apple have an official trade up program for storage within the 5-7 year period that Apple supports a given computer line up.

You mean like..... DIMM sockets and M.2 sockets? Imagine if something standardized such as those two things existed and allowed those components to be upgraded or replaced..... it'd be a miracle.....
It'd be more amazing if this standard were to be used by the other 99% of computer manufactures......

Too bad such sockets don't exist.
/S

 

[CarlJ]

Are they seriously calling old tech “magic keyboard”? I mean cool but really?

One, it's not old tech per se, the new keyboard is a mashup between the scissor switches and a lot of the "other improvements" they made on the most recent butterfly keyboards. Two, they're calling it Magic Keyboard, because they came out with a standalone external "Magic Keyboard" years ago, to match up with their "Magic Trackpad".

Apple can't bring themselves to say, "we were all wrong about the butterfly keyboard, here's the old scissor keyboard back" (and, as above, it's not the old scissor keyboard), but they can say, "people really like our external Magic Keyboard, so we're using that design in the new MBP". As John Gruber pointed out, it's a great way for them to say they've made the change people wanted without saying they made a mistake. Given that we're not going to get a mea culpa, I'm fine with (re)using the "Magic Keyboard" name, as long as we get a solid keyboard out of it.
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Soldered DRAM is only really bad if they don't make the memory upgrade cost comparable to aftermarket upgrades.

No, the other problem with soldered DRAM is it makes you have to accurately guess your needs for the next 3-5 years, at time of purchase. There used to be the fallback of being able to upgrade the DRAM halfway through the life of the machine, if you guessed wrong at the start or your needs evolve (or the software you use evolves) and outgrow(s) what was originally fine. Previously, 2-3 years in, if you were faced with "the CPU/storage is fine, but I need more RAM", you could swap it out for more RAM (which may have been significantly more expensive from both Apple and 3rd-party vendors, 3 years earlier, and thus out of the question). Now, the only recourse is to buy an entirely new machine.

 

[mdnz]

well, whats the use of a PRO machine if you do PRO work on it and it will destroy itself due to high heat. I have heard of those graphic card issues in the past failing.

Apple doesn't care. Pro is just a marketing name.

 

[Tyler O'Bannon]

Following the 16-inch MacBook Pro, Apple plans to release a new 13-inch MacBook Pro with a scissor switch keyboard in the first half of 2020, according to industry sources cited by hit-or-miss Taiwanese publication DigiTimes. A preview of the report was shared with paying subscribers.

16-inch MacBook Pro's new scissor switch keyboard via iFixit​

The report claims the display size will remain 13.3 inches, although given the source is DigiTimes, we would not completely rule out hopes of a larger 14-inch display. Wistron and Global Lighting Technologies are said to be among the suppliers of the keyboards for the smaller notebook.

The new 16-inch MacBook Pro features a redesigned scissor switch keyboard, largely based on the standalone Magic Keyboard for the iMac. Given the tried-and-tested design, the keyboard should prove far more reliable than the troublesome butterfly keyboards used across the MacBook lineup in recent years.

The 16-inch MacBook Pro also features a physical Esc key and an inverted-T arrow key layout. It is unclear if the 13-inch MacBook Pro will follow suit.

Apple analyst Ming-Chi Kuo has previously predicted that Apple will transition its entire notebook lineup to scissor switch keyboards in 2020, including all MacBook Pro and MacBook Air models.

It would be hardly surprising if Apple completely moves past its butterfly keyboards, which have suffered from issues with sticky, repeating, or nonfunctional keys since their inception in 2016. Apple continues to offer free repairs to affected customers as part of its worldwide service program.

The entry-level 13-inch MacBook Pro was last updated in July, while higher-end 13-inch models were refreshed in May.

Article Link: 13-Inch MacBook Pro With Scissor Keyboard Expected in First Half of 2020

Prediction:

13.3 inch display will stay the same, and the overall size will be reduced. It’ll get the thinner bezels like 16”, but by bringing the size of the overall machine down, making this the “Most portable MacBook Pro ever.”

15.4” grew into a slightly larger footprint with 16” display, making it the “most powerfulMacBook Pro ever and the largest Retina Display ever made”.

Now the 13” leans even more to portability, and the 16” to bringing as much power with you as possible.

(smaller 13.3” and larger 16” makes the sizes between the 2 even further apart. It’s all about portability vs power that you can take with you). That’s the marketing angle

 

[smulji]

Prediction:

13.3 inch display will stay the same, and the overall size will be reduced. It’ll get the thinner bezels like 16”, but by bringing the size of the overall machine down, making this the “Most portable MacBook Pro ever.”

15.4” grew into a slightly larger footprint with 16” display, making it the “most powerfulMacBook Pro ever and the largest Retina Display ever made”.

Now the 13” leans even more to portability, and the 16” to bringing as much power with you as possible.

(smaller 13.3” and larger 16” makes the sizes between the 2 even further apart. It’s all about portability vs power that you can take with you). That’s the marketing angle

I can see Apple doing what you described to the 13.3” Retina MBA & releasing a 14” MBP. So you have:

13.3” Retina MBA
14” / 16” MBP

Even the iPad / iPhone lines seem to have settled on one mainstream & two models.

iPhone 11 (6.1”) / iPhone pro (2 models)

iPad Air 10.5” / iPad Pro (2 models)

 

[cubbie5150]

I continue to hope we get a 14" screen. ~15" was perfect for me, and I am considering the 16", but I'd prefer a choice between the 13.3" and 16". YMMV.

 

[Tyler O'Bannon]

I can see Apple doing what you described to the 13.3” Retina MBA & releasing a 14” MBP. So you have:

13.3” Retina MBA
14” / 16” MBP

Even the iPad / iPhone lines seem to have settled on one mainstream & two models.

iPhone 11 (6.1”) / iPhone pro (2 models)

iPad Air 10.5” / iPad Pro (2 models)

That is very true. That differentiates the entry MBP from the Air by also having a screen size difference (right now both are 13.3), so you’re point makes a lot of sense.

Also, 12” ARM fanless MacBook? Do people want a smaller Mac than the 13.3” Air?

I’m really curious about that

 

[chucker23n1]

My opinion, which I have mentioned in earlier posts in other threads, would be for Apple to settle on a physical format that they can use for all of their portable line and Mac mini moving forward that is socketed, similar to the iMac Pro and Mac Pro form factor and Apple have an official trade up program for storage within the 5-7 year period that Apple supports a given computer line up.

It is extremely unlikely that they will move back to a socketed physical form factor for SSDs.

Here's the entirety of their current "SSD":

https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/eF4gevhZhctZqlMD.full
https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/XZQEBkLiWWjMF6hP.full

Five light blue Toshiba chips for the actual storage, and one dark blue Apple T2 chip as the flash controller.

Putting those on a socketed daughterboard would make the entire machine significantly thicker.

 

[georgB]

Also, 12” ARM fanless MacBook? Do people want a smaller Mac than the 13.3” Air?

I'd love an 11" MacBook (Air, Pro, I don't care how it's called) with great innards, ports, and a good keyboard, and I'd gladly give up thinness for functionality. The portability is important for my work, and I don't need lots of screen size.

 

[Tyler O'Bannon]

I'd love an 11" MacBook (Air, Pro, I don't care how it's called) with great innards, ports, and a good keyboard, and I'd gladly give up thinness for functionality. The portability is important for my work, and I don't need lots of screen size.

I feel you. I have the 12” and it is excellent for travel, and great for working on my lap. It’s super comfortable.

I have a feeling that a slimmer bezel 13.3” Air (smaller footprint than current) may be the smallest Mac we ever get again. Footprint may be only slightly bigger than 12”

Seems like iPad covers everything below 13.3”

also, I/O seems like it’s going to be TB3 and forward (USB-C connector) moving forward, and I don’t think they will ever look back. At least, as time moves forward, it will be more and more ubiquitous.

It’s always fun to see what becomes reality

 

[georgB]

I feel you. I have the 12” and it is excellent for travel, and great for working on my lap. It’s super comfortable.

I have a feeling that a slimmer bezel 13.3” Air (smaller footprint than current) may be the smallest Mac we ever get again. Footprint may be only slightly bigger than 12”

Seems like iPad covers everything below 13.3”

also, I/O seems like it’s going to be TB3 and forward (USB-C connector) moving forward, and I don’t think they will ever look back. At least, as time moves forward, it will be more and more ubiquitous.

It’s always fun to see what becomes reality

I'm afraid you're probably right. As for the iPad, yes, it covers everything below 13.3", except it's not a functional computer.

 

[Tyler O'Bannon]

I'm afraid you're probably right. As for the iPad, yes, it covers everything below 13.3", except it's not a functional computer.

You are right. Maybe I'm not as educated on the iPad as I should be, but to me there is no question about the Mac vs. the iPad. They are 2 completely different things. An iPad is not a Mac, and it doesn't replace a Mac.

I guess that's been the question for a decade now: "When will the iPad replace the Mac". The answer today is honestly no different than it was 10 years ago. Regardless of what an iPad can do now that it couldn't do then, it is not a Mac. That's my experience at least.

And to bring that back to the topic at hand, unless we get a 12" ARM Mac, iPad is the only option for your screen size preference.

I'm thinking smaller footprint 13.3" Air might be the first fanless ARM Mac in lieu of a 12" (when that even happens, wouldn't surprise me if it's still quite a while). And the smallest screen available on a Mac.

We shall see

 

[iRun26.2]

I went to an Apple store to check out the 16” MBP and was disappointed it was so big. I wanted to buy it for it’s advanced specifications but it isn’t as portable as the 13.3” MBP. Thus, I am waiting for a new 13.3” MBP.

The thing that I am really pleased about is that the 16” machine now has both a 64G RAM option and a 8TB SSD option. Apple always like to keep higher end specs for their top of the line machine. This implies that a new 13.3” (or 14”) MBP could have the option for both 32GB of RAM and a 4TB SSD without cutting into the 16” MBP top of line specification. I would be very happy with a 32GB / 4TB 13.3” MBP!

 

[smulji]

I'd love an 11" MacBook (Air, Pro, I don't care how it's called) with great innards, ports, and a good keyboard, and I'd gladly give up thinness for functionality. The portability is important for my work, and I don't need lots of screen size.

Wouldn’t a 12.9” iPad Pro fit that need?
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I feel you. I have the 12” and it is excellent for travel, and great for working on my lap. It’s super comfortable.

I have a feeling that a slimmer bezel 13.3” Air (smaller footprint than current) may be the smallest Mac we ever get again. Footprint may be only slightly bigger than 12”

Seems like iPad covers everything below 13.3”

also, I/O seems like it’s going to be TB3 and forward (USB-C connector) moving forward, and I don’t think they will ever look back. At least, as time moves forward, it will be more and more ubiquitous.

It’s always fun to see what becomes reality

“Seems like iPad covers everything below 13.3”

My thoughts exactly

 

[PickUrPoison]

Wouldn’t a 12.9” iPad Pro fit that need?

No, not if you need a Mac.

“Seems like iPad covers everything below 13.3”

My thoughts exactly

Screen sizes are definitely covered, with a wide range of display sizes, to be sure: 1.6, 1.8, 4.7, 5.5, 5.8, 6.1, 6.5, 7.9, 10.2, 10.5, 11.0, 12.9, 13.3, 16.0, 21.5, 27.0, 32.0.

Apple Watch covers 1.6 to 1.8”
iPhone covers 4.7 to 6.5”
iPad 7.9 to 12.9”
MacBook Pro 13.3 to 16.0”
iMac 21.5 to 27.0”
Mac mini/Mac Pro 32.0

But if you need a Mac laptop, your choices of display are 13.3 or 16”. If you want a screen smaller than 13.3, you can’t just say, no prob, the 11.0 iPad Pro’s got that covered. Even though there’s quite a bit of functionality overlap, if you need a Mac, iPad is not an option.

That said, I love my iPad. And my Mac mini. And iPhone. Maybe Watch for Christmas 🤞

 

[georgB]

An iPad's a great ... iPad. But I can think of no one who needs an iPad (and the iOS) for the work they do. But I know many things for which a Mac (and the Mac OS) is needed. The only place iPad's replacing the Mac is on the shelves.

 

[Tech198]

Never use Scissors round your Macbook Pro..

It has a scissor keyboard.

 

[localni]

Before he died, Steve Jobs gave Jony Ive a tremendous amount of veto power inside of Apple (Chief Design Officer) that I suspect has lead to an internal power struggle between the two and behind closed doors the MacBook Pro keyboard issues and Ive not keen to create yet another tower Mac pushed things to the breaking point. There is a correlation between the perceived decline in Apple’s focus on Macs and consumer’s needs, wants and desires, with the design direction that was taken in the 2016-2019 MacBook Pro, the lack of substantive updates to the Mac mini and the 2013 MacPro, as well as the hoopla over Jony Ive’s outside projects and dare I say it, weight gain, that leads me to believe that he was Ready to leave Apple back in 2015 after the Watch was released or even earlier and maybe he is or was suffering from some form of depression.

Again, this is conjecture on my part, I have no insider knowledge and only a few links to back up my assertions. But I’ve seen and lived parts of this before in my professional life. I suspect Ive was incredibly frustrated with Cook’s focus on costs, margin, supply chain, moving away from computers (although I think Ive was with him on that) and Cook’s relative lack of Deep caring or interest in the process of design, aesthetics, elegance...and that lead to a fractious working relationship. Steve balanced them out, acted as a buffer and took on the responsibility of making the final decisions, although I think he favored Ive’s arguments more times than anyone would admit. So to keep Cook, Jobs made him CEO and to balance it out, elevated Ive to CDO and gave him almost co-equal CEO power.

These sorts or working relationships are fragile, egocentric, mercurial and not prone to longevity. Ive no longer wants to be held back and these external projects were to try and give him a chance to spread his wings while retaining him as long as possible. The past 4-8 years are a result of this, I believe, we just have no transparency into any of Apple’s corporate drama.

Again, my opinion, my conjecture, my experiences. Thanks for letting me ramble on.
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Different chassis with different engineering, and that extra thickness is part of what is necessary to embed the scissors into the new 16”. Long story, short, a retrofit is not possible.

Best situation is to sell your 15” and buy the 16” and stop pounding on concrete. Just my 2¢.

Jony Ive left Apple earlier this year to open his independent design company which will then cooperate with Apple on some projects. That just confirms most of things that you've said.

 

[Vivian125]

No, not if you need a Mac.

Screen sizes are definitely covered, with a wide range of display sizes, to be sure: 1.6, 1.8, 4.7, 5.5, 5.8, 6.1, 6.5, 7.9, 10.2, 10.5, 11.0, 12.9, 13.3, 16.0, 21.5, 27.0, 32.0.

Apple Watch covers 1.6 to 1.8”
iPhone covers 4.7 to 6.5”
iPad 7.9 to 12.9”
MacBook Pro 13.3 to 16.0”
iMac 21.5 to 27.0”
Mac mini/Mac Pro 32.0

But if you need a Mac laptop, your choices of display are 13.3 or 16”. If you want a screen smaller than 13.3, you can’t just say, no prob, the 11.0 iPad Pro’s got that covered. Even though there’s quite a bit of functionality overlap, if you need a Mac, iPad is not an option.

That said, I love my iPad. And my Mac mini. And iPhone. Maybe Watch for Christmas 🤞

The third biggest Macbook witch is 13.3 Inch is actually BIT Smaller than the iPad Pro 12.9 Apparently due to Aspect Ratio
Macbook Air 11.6 = 56 Square inch
Macbook 12= 60 square inch
Macbook Air/Pro 13.3 = 78.4 square inch (to get this Calculate the overall length witch is 11.2 then the width 7. 11.2 X 7)
iPad Pro 12.9= 80 square inch (bigger than 3 MacBook Models 11.6, 12.0 and 13.3)

 

[radiologyman]

Maybe a 12" form factor? I miss the 12" PowerBook....

More like updated MacBook 12, too bad will be bigger because scissor mechanism keyboard needs more space. Johnny Ive left so we will see larger and heavier chassis. So I hope for lighter iteration of Macbook Air, but without a fan. Otherwise I will need to extend warranty for my MB 12...

 

[MarcoPohlo]

Please Apple listen to us professionals who do not like big laptops. I want 14" in current body of 13" MBP, I also want 64 GB LPDDR4X (16 GB base), 4 core (would love 6core, but I've seen intel roadmap and not going to happen with 10nm anytime soon) 1 TB SSD (512 GB base).

Possibly wait for Tiger Lake (for those sweet sweet Gen 13 graphics and release 2020 14" MBP with Tiger lake processors.

Thank you, dear Apple.

 

[chucker23n1]

Please Apple listen to us professionals who do not like big laptops. I want 14" in current body of 13" MBP, I also want 64 GB LPDDR4X (16 GB base), 4 core (would love 6core, but I've seen intel roadmap and not going to happen with 10nm anytime soon) 1 TB SSD (512 GB base).

They'll probably put Comet Lake-U in there, not Ice Lake. No 10nm, but six cores. Not sure they can offer 64 GB, but 32 should work this time around.

Possibly wait for Tiger Lake (for those sweet sweet Gen 13 graphics and release 2020 14" MBP with Tiger lake processors.

They might go straight to Tiger Lake with the MacBook Air.

 

[bosozoku]

That's what I am waiting for! And 16Gb in base model, please.
Soon it's time to change my trustworthy 2015 13 inch model!
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And I don't give a care about soldered ssd, cause I have everything in iCloud (Docs, desktop folders and photo/music). Actually, nowadays SSDs are dependable and will last longer than lifetime go your laptop

 

[jdiamond]

Didn’t we just go through this with the 16”—with the Apple-hate crowd predicting $3,500, $4,000 and even $5,000? Turns out we got a bigger screen AND a price cut.

There’s no reason to think a 13” with the new keyboard, whether it keeps the 13” display or moves up to 14”, will be any higher than the current $1,299/$1,799.

In theory, the scissors mechanism should cost less than the butterfly mechanism because it requires less precision and has far more production time behind it. But I think the reason most people were worried the 16" MBP might be more expensive is they imagined it might be larger and positioned above the 15" MBP. Instead, Apple slightly increased the base price and DRASTICALLY lowered the price for the upgrades.

It's the most amazing price shock I've had from Apple since the 2016s were first introduced (and prices skyrocketed): the configuration I was interested in dropped by $2,000 in one week! Still more expensive than my 2015 MBP, but such an improvement! (Or to be fair, about the same cost as my 2015MBP once I upgraded it to similar specs.)
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Why can't it output 8K?

It can with a multistream monitor.