15.4 inch PowerBooks?

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by john123
And to frozenstar...sorry for letting it get personal.

My dear john123, like you said it yourself before, a little argument here and there is always entertaining. And I've come to expect you losing your temper on those boards. And I like it. Besides you do as a general rule make good points, even though your conclusions are usually extreme (I feel)...

Sorry for that off-topic intervention...


NicoMan

 

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by john123
And on the other hand, we have some PowerBooks that will boot in OS 9 (yay for compatibility!)

I think that is exactly the point: OS9 compatibility. For me, even though it 'sort of' did not make sense for Apple to come up with 2 new Powerbooks and not update the middle one, Apple is leaving it on the store for customers (they will target professionals -Quark anyone??- so all the consumer lines except in the education channel will be updated soon with no possibility of OS9 booting) wanting a Powerbook with OS9 compatibility (boooo!) and they are going to take their time updating the 15". First iMac update, and then Powermac and the 15" Powerbook, maybe.

Now I agree that to some people the 15" updated (as the rumours go) might not be as attractive, but I don't know, we are still talking about a rumour, so let's not jump to conclusions... I do feel that with the 12" and the 17" in the range, Apple need to modify the specs of the 15". How? I am not good enough to predict it (we have rumour sites for that).

Nicoman

 

[john123]

Originally posted by NicoMan


My dear john123, like you said it yourself before, a little argument here and there is always entertaining. And I've come to expect you losing your temper on those boards. And I like it. Besides you do as a general rule make good points, even though your conclusions are usually extreme (I feel)...

Sorry for that off-topic intervention...


NicoMan

Glad someone noticed!

It's all for entertainment....

 

[macdiehard]

Different users, different needs

I think it's important to remember that different users have different needs. I have a small business and even though I like the idea of having the latest and greatest I have to evaluate will the investment make in difference in productivity.

Things thate will help me are:

Airport - I like the idea of being able to get email at airports and hotels while I am travelling. Whether the new standard will really make a difference I don't know. As others said they are so many other limiting factors.

Bluetooth - Yes it would be nice to get rid of the cable to my printer but the adaptor would be just fine.

Screen - always nice to get better screens but the current ones are fine my needs.

Case - the paint chipping concerns me, I was going to get a PB600 for my wife but I might get her a 14 inch ibook instead because it might get banged around by my 2 year old.

What interests me the most is performance, speed plus ram. I won't the machine to be useful in 3 to 4 years from now. I am up to 3.5 years on my PB wallstreet 225. You know it does 90 per cent of what I need to do really well. It's main draw back is no USB and Firewire and my adaptac USB card crashes it a lot.

As I said before you can save a lot of money by buying 6 months behind.

As someone once said, a software upgrade or faster processor never got anyone a new customer or made a new sale. And by the way, the bragging rites only last 6 months, until the next cool thing hangs out.

I have a friend that gets the latest machine everytime it comes out. For me it's a waste of time, it's work switching machines and costly. Fortunately it's time for me to get a new machine and the choices are good!

 

[jokkka]

That much faster than PB 12"?

After thinking about it I think the 12" PowerBook would be groovy cause the pretty features (mainly bluetooth and airX and aluminium non-scratch) that I'd like from the 15" update are in the 12". Except I'm reading now that the 12" PB is slowww and gets beaten by the iBook is a couple speed tests? Is the 15" 1GHz G4 that much faster than the 12" 867MHz G4? L2 cache makes a difference I know but the discrepancy seems rather large... Oh! and Frozenstar, what available information leads you to suspect we will be seeing the 15.4" PB soon (I know the compal site but thats not enough to merit stating that). I'm looking to hook it up with this new Al15 and so I hope it comes out ASAP but I don't like false hope!

p.s. I use 500MHz Pentium 3 right now so do we think a 1GHz G4 would be a little faster in the Powerbook? I dunno, i mean it IS only 500MHz more... right? heh

 

[NicoMan]

Re: That much faster than PB 12"?

Originally posted by jokkka
Except I'm reading now that the 12" PB is slowww and gets beaten by the iBook is a couple speed tests? Is the 15" 1GHz G4 that much faster than the 12" 867MHz G4? L2 cache makes a difference I know but the discrepancy seems rather large...

I have yet to see those actual tests... But anyway the iBook is not slow, especially in non altivec apps. So give it a G4 and the major downside is gone.

Oh! and Frozenstar, what available information leads you to suspect we will be seeing the 15.4" PB soon (I know the compal site but thats not enough to merit stating that). I'm looking to hook it up with this new Al15 and so I hope it comes out ASAP but I don't like false hope!

I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. I think there is a strong possibility that Apple will keep the current 15" the way it is for another couple of months. It has to do with leaving a Pro Laptop with OS9 booting ability. But who knows...

p.s. I use 500MHz Pentium 3 right now so do we think a 1GHz G4 would be a little faster in the Powerbook? I dunno, i mean it IS only 500MHz more... right? heh

I would say you will see a very big improvement from a 500 MHz P3 to a G4 (867MHz or 1GHz). But remember to put a lot of RAM, because it makes a lot of difference with OSX (I would try and max it out on any of the machines in the laptop range).

NicoMan

 

[MacKid]

Re: That much faster than PB 12"?

Originally posted by jokkka
After thinking about it I think the 12" PowerBook would be groovy cause the pretty features (mainly bluetooth and airX and aluminium non-scratch) that I'd like from the 15" update are in the 12". Except I'm reading now that the 12" PB is slowww and gets beaten by the iBook is a couple speed tests?

As stated by NicoMan, the G3 is faster than a G4 in non-AltiVec apps, but I went to the Apple Store in Tysons Corner, and the 12"PowerBook was not slow by any means, even with the lack of much cache, and it only had 256MB! So don't be afraid to get a 12".

 

[frozenstar]

Chinmei Sung of Digitimes has confirmed that Apple is replacing the 15.2" PowerBook with a 15.4" model in the "near future". The resolution is expected to be 1280x800.

Beyond this, we can only assume that the new 15.4" model will have at least all of the new features in the 12" PowerBook, and possibly the ambient light sensor found in the 17" model.

My guess is that the 15.4" model will become available for purchase shortly after the 17" model starts shipping.

 

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by frozenstar
Beyond this, we can only assume that the new 15.4" model will have at least all of the new features in the 12" PowerBook, and possibly the ambient light sensor found in the 17" model.

My guess is that the 15.4" model will become available for purchase shortly after the 17" model starts shipping.

It is likely that Apple is going to put in the 15" some of the features that are in the 17" but not in the 12". But I don't think we should expect everything that's in the 17" to be in the 15": they need to differentiate feature-wise both those models (my guesss is that, on top of the screen size, we might not see FW800 or the ambient light sensor in the 15", but it's pure speculation).

As for availability, shortly after shipments of the 17" is reasonable, because we would be looking at 2 to 3 months down the line, which should see Quark close to release an OSX version and therefore would remove the need for OS9-booting machines.

NicoMan

 

[yzedf]

Originally posted by NicoMan


It is likely that Apple is going to put in the 15" some of the features that are in the 17" but not in the 12". But I don't think we should expect everything that's in the 17" to be in the 15": they need to differentiate feature-wise both those models (my guesss is that, on top of the screen size, we might not see FW800 or the ambient light sensor in the 15", but it's pure speculation).

As for availability, shortly after shipments of the 17" is reasonable, because we would be looking at 2 to 3 months down the line, which should see Quark close to release an OSX version and therefore would remove the need for OS9-booting machines.

NicoMan

Hopefully FW800 will be there. The keyboard is just a waste for me. The combo of touch typing and light off the screen is fine for me.

2-3 month wait would kill me. The 15.2" TiBooks sales have languished for some time, and the (supposed) knowledge of what the new revision (might) will look like probably will absolutely kill off sales, IMO.

I want the 15.x" PB, but if it will be revised to what the 12" and 17" are now (style and features)... I will wait. And I think most others will too.

Waiting for Quark is asinine. Screw them. Most "pro" shops don't use the latest and greatest hardware anyway. And why would you do work of that nature with a notebook anyways? Any pro work requiring color accuracy eliminates the use of an LCD screen/monitor anyhow.

Of course this is just my biased opinion...

 

[Maz]

(my first post!)

I'm looking to upgrade my iMac G3 450Mhz - it's getting a bit long in the tooth with OS X and iMovie in particular. I'm thinking of either a new iMac or a 15" powerbook (hopefully the rumoured updates will come true). Based on the current predictions re specs, how do you think performance will compare between the 2?

 

[yzedf]

Originally posted by Maz
(my first post!)

I'm looking to upgrade my iMac G3 450Mhz - it's getting a bit long in the tooth with OS X and iMovie in particular. I'm thinking of either a new iMac or a 15" powerbook (hopefully the rumoured updates will come true). Based on the current predictions re specs, how do you think performance will compare between the 2?

Why not upgrade the machine you have?

Otherwise... get the PowerBook. Desktop power that you can carry around. That and a wireless hub/router setup.

You will love it. I promise.

 

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by Maz
(my first post!)

I'm looking to upgrade my iMac G3 450Mhz - it's getting a bit long in the tooth with OS X and iMovie in particular. I'm thinking of either a new iMac or a 15" powerbook (hopefully the rumoured updates will come true). Based on the current predictions re specs, how do you think performance will compare between the 2?

welcome to macrumors.

i would say powerbook. it is utterly invaluable to have airport/airport extreme. moreover, i believe they have somewhat better video cards in them (i don't think imacs even have 64 MB DDR vid, do they? someone will correct me if i am off). plus, the proc is and probably will continue to be faster... maybe if the iMac'ers are lucky they will go up to 1GHz in the next week. time will tell. in any event, i think that the Ti/Albook has a lot going for it, one of those factors NOT being price, though it's a good deal (i promise, i have one).

 

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by yzedf


Hopefully FW800 will be there. The keyboard is just a waste for me. The combo of touch typing and light off the screen is fine for me.

2-3 month wait would kill me. The 15.2" TiBooks sales have languished for some time, and the (supposed) knowledge of what the new revision (might) will look like probably will absolutely kill off sales, IMO.

I want the 15.x" PB, but if it will be revised to what the 12" and 17" are now (style and features)... I will wait. And I think most others will too.

Waiting for Quark is asinine. Screw them. Most "pro" shops don't use the latest and greatest hardware anyway. And why would you do work of that nature with a notebook anyways? Any pro work requiring color accuracy eliminates the use of an LCD screen/monitor anyhow.

Of course this is just my biased opinion...

I would hope for a release much sooner than 2-3 months too. But I don't know about that OS9 booting stuff: Apple seem to care about it (that's why it is still possible to buy OS9-booting PowerMacs on the Apple store). Now I agree with you that f**k'em professional Quark users, but Apple is trying hard not to alienate those people.


NicoMan

 

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by Shadowfax


welcome to macrumors.

i would say powerbook. it is utterly invaluable to have airport/airport extreme. moreover, i believe they have somewhat better video cards in them (i don't think imacs even have 64 MB DDR vid, do they? someone will correct me if i am off). plus, the proc is and probably will continue to be faster... maybe if the iMac'ers are lucky they will go up to 1GHz in the next week. time will tell. in any event, i think that the Ti/Albook has a lot going for it, one of those factors NOT being price, though it's a good deal (i promise, i have one).

I agree with you I would say the PBooks are better if somewhat more expensive. If you are looking for the 15", an update is obviously coming, but when is difficult to say. The most optimistic estimates are a couple of weeks, the most pessimistic one (mine) says 2 months or so (cf my previous posts on this thread).

NicoMan

 

[Maz]

Originally posted by yzedf


Why not upgrade the machine you have?

I'm going to give the old iMac to my parents - they have a crummy 386 PC and don't have internet access - I think they will be amazed with it!

Thanks everyone for the welcome and the advice - I was swaying towards the PB already but you've helped make my mind up now!

 

[Hulot]

15.4" PB vs. OS 9 compatibility

Apple sells their old PowerMacs at a premium and markets them OS 9 compatible bto options or some such, right?

What would prevent them from doing the same with the current stock of Ti PBs?

They could charge extra *AND* have the benefit of selling new 15.4" PBs to people who want them. Like me.

If the 12" PB had 1 GHz and L3 cache, I would have bought one right away. Now with the new 20" display on offer I also need DVI out it seems! ;-)

 

[yzedf]

Originally posted by Maz


I'm going to give the old iMac to my parents - they have a crummy 386 PC and don't have internet access - I think they will be amazed with it!

Thanks everyone for the welcome and the advice - I was swaying towards the PB already but you've helped make my mind up now!

Tell your parents good luck from MacRumors

 

[yzedf]

Re: 15.4" PB vs. OS 9 compatibility

Originally posted by Hulot
Apple sells their old PowerMacs at a premium and markets them OS 9 compatible bto options or some such, right?

What would prevent them from doing the same with the current stock of Ti PBs?

They could charge extra *AND* have the benefit of selling new 15.4" PBs to people who want them. Like me.

If the 12" PB had 1 GHz and L3 cache, I would have bought one right away. Now with the new 20" display on offer I also need DVI out it seems! ;-)

Yeah... they really did kinda drop the ball on the 12"

I think that was to make the 15" seem like an "upgrade" over the 12" aside from screen size...

 

[frozenstar]

Re: Re: 15.4" PB vs. OS 9 compatibility

Originally posted by yzedf


Yeah... they really did kinda drop the ball on the 12"

I think that was to make the 15" seem like an "upgrade" over the 12" aside from screen size...

I don't agree with that at all. The new 12" PowerBook has the highest component density of any Apple laptop before it. There is very little area over which to disperse heat.

I believe that the 1GHz and L3 cache were left out more for technical reasons than marketing ones.

 

[macdiehard]

Re: 15.4" PB vs. OS 9 compatibility

If the 12" PB had 1 GHz and L3 cache, I would have bought one right away. Now with the new 20" display on offer I also need DVI out it seems! ;-) [/B][/QUOTE]

I have to say this was my feeling also. For me I want ultra portability when I move around and desktop confort at my desk, external keyboard and monitor. Also I hate having a lap top and desktop and having to sync data, so one small powerful lap top with an external monitor is the best of both worlds.

My ideal solution is the 12 inch power book but I'd like to have maximum power, hence 1GHZ and the best video out put - DVI. Also 1 gig of ram!

I am not complaining, the 12 inch is way better in performance than similar small Pee Cee notebooks.

What surprises me with the 12 inch is the VGA, I mean the Apple store doesn't offer any monitor to go with the 12 inch (excuse my ignorance here but I assume you can't get the Apple monitors to work off the VGA - is that true?)

Why force me the consumer to buy a third party monitor?

I realize that their must people out their that love the VGA because it works with the projectors for presentations by why hobble their own monitors?

 

[NicoMan]

Re: 15.4" PB vs. OS 9 compatibility

Originally posted by Hulot
Apple sells their old PowerMacs at a premium and markets them OS 9 compatible bto options or some such, right?

What would prevent them from doing the same with the current stock of Ti PBs?

They could charge extra *AND* have the benefit of selling new 15.4" PBs to people who want them. Like me.

If the 12" PB had 1 GHz and L3 cache, I would have bought one right away. Now with the new 20" display on offer I also need DVI out it seems! ;-)

My guess is, from what I have read in those forums, that it is a ROM issue. On a PowerMac it would be easy to put the old OS9-compatible ROMs instead on a one-by-one basis (hence the BTO option...). Try doing this on a PowerBook (you know the units are built in Taiwan or something and then shipped for order-merging)... I am not sure Apple would want to run 2 different assembly lines for the same computer.

Anyway that is just a guess.


NicoMan

 

[dstorey]

Originally posted by Maz


I'm going to give the old iMac to my parents - they have a crummy 386 PC and don't have internet access

Wow, someone with a worse main computer than my crappy P1 200 MMX that died every half an hour when i was trying to do my uni project on DW Ultra Dev and MS Office. Wish someone had an old mac for me....:-( hehe

 

[Hulot]

Re: Re: 15.4" PB vs. OS 9 compatibility

Originally posted by NicoMan

My guess is, from what I have read in those forums, that it is a ROM issue. On a PowerMac it would be easy to put the old OS9-compatible ROMs instead on a one-by-one basis (hence the BTO option...). Try doing this on a PowerBook (you know the units are built in Taiwan or something and then shipped for order-merging)... I am not sure Apple would want to run 2 different assembly lines for the same computer.

Anyway that is just a guess.

NicoMan

I checked again and the OS 9 PowerMacs definitely look like the old machines: 1.25 GHz + 2MB L3 Cache/processor; no FireWire 800. They don't need two assembly lines. They just sell the old machines while they have stock. Shows some chuzpe that sell them at a higher price. But then, if the customer is willing to pay...

And I can't wait for them to do the same trick with the old TiBooks -- sell them as compatibility options while getting new 15.4" models out of the door. Go go go go! ;-)

 

[Longchamp]

Hi! i'm a new comer, and NOT from any Mac. i've never used one, the last time i ever saw one was in grade 2, i'm in grade 12 now. i'm going to university next year, and i need a laptop that can do everything i throw at it, yet be as portable as my current Toshiba Protege.

i've looked and looked, the Ti book was the best, but HEY 12 and 17" beasts are here, makes me wonder are the 15" powerbooks going to be updated in the near future. and WHEN that "near" future is.

so far, i have read that it would be a couple weeks, to 2months for it to come out. i'm fine with that, 2 months is a little on the long side, and i can't possibly sit here waiting for that long! i really want the new powerbook, and that backlit keyboard (which i'm praying they'll have)is driving me nuttts..

so my questions are:
when is it expected these new Powerbooks be out?
Why do you think there will be a new Powerbook in the NEAR future?
and lastly..
How long before a product is on the website will Apple announce the new products? any shows etc.?