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15.4 inch PowerBooks?

Re: Re: Re: 15.4" PB vs. OS 9 compatibility

Originally posted by Hulot


I checked again and the OS 9 PowerMacs definitely look like the old machines: 1.25 GHz + 2MB L3 Cache/processor; no FireWire 800. They don't need two assembly lines. They just sell the old machines while they have stock. Shows some chuzpe that sell them at a higher price. But then, if the customer is willing to pay...

And I can't wait for them to do the same trick with the old TiBooks -- sell them as compatibility options while getting new 15.4" models out of the door. Go go go go! ;-)
Click to expand...

You are right about those PowerMacs. But I also think that Apple might need to change the feature list of the new 15.4" to make it fit better in the new range (not too close to the 17" while far enough from the 12"), and that might make it a 'lesser' machine than the actual 15.2" (the rumour has it that the new screen will be 1280*800: here you go with a smaller screen). In that case that wouldn't do to have both 15" on sale at the same time.

Anyway I was trying to play devil's advocate, and I personally would like to see them out of the door fast. But when you think about it, that's already a lot of new stuff since the beginning of the year, and we are also talking about new iMacs soon...

NicoMan
 
Originally posted by Longchamp
Why do you think there will be a new Powerbook in the NEAR future?
and lastly..
How long before a product is on the website will Apple announce the new products? any shows etc.?
Click to expand...
I think that Apple need to update the 15" to make it part of the new Aluminium range, with also some features like Bluetooth, Airport Extreme and (possibly) FW800 and the keyboard light thingy.
Now when... Hard to say really. One of the reasons I feel that we are at least a month away from Apple announcing it is the fact that it was last updated early Nov 2002 and that usually the upgrade cycle at Apple is 5-6 months.
Now to your last question: when Apple announce a new product, it is almost always immediately on their website (I mean within an hour or 2 at most). But the shipping times can vary from a couple of days (the new PowerMacs) to 2 months (the 17" PowerBook).

Hope that helps.

NicoMan
 
hmm...sounds good so far..thx for the reply

so FOR SURE they will be here before the end of this school year? is that the story?

as for the features...will the screen be better or worse than the current version of PB's?
 
Originally posted by Longchamp
hmm...sounds good so far..thx for the reply

so FOR SURE they will be here before the end of this school year? is that the story?

as for the features...will the screen be better or worse than the current version of PB's?
Click to expand...
I would say it's 99.9% sure they will update the 15" before the end of this 'school year' (by the way, when is the end of your school year?).

Now about the screen: it is rumoured to be 1280*800 (as opposed to 1280*854 on the current 15") so if you value screen real estate, you will be worse off with the new screen. However, there are other considerations like brightness, contrast, colour accuracy, etc... that make a screen good or not. Knowing Apple, there is a good chance that these specs will be (slightly?) better on the new 15".

NicoMan
 
Re: Re: Re: 15.4" PB vs. OS 9 compatibility

Originally posted by frozenstar



I don't agree with that at all. The new 12" PowerBook has the highest component density of any Apple laptop before it. There is very little area over which to disperse heat.

I believe that the 1GHz and L3 cache were left out more for technical reasons than marketing ones.
Click to expand...

Nope.

If you could get 1GHz and L3 cache in the 12" PB as well as the BT and FW800 and AExtreme...

Most would NOT get the 15.2" at this time.

We want the upgrade. Too bad the 17" makes it look like no 1.25GHz any time soon. :(
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: 15.4" PB vs. OS 9 compatibility

Originally posted by yzedf


Nope.

If you could get 1GHz and L3 cache in the 12" PB as well as the BT and FW800 and AExtreme...

Most would NOT get the 15.2" at this time.

We want the upgrade. Too bad the 17" makes it look like no 1.25GHz any time soon. :(
Click to expand...

Well, that's your opinion. Just try to state it as an opinion, not a fact. ;)
 
Originally posted by NicoMan

I would say it's 99.9% sure they will update the 15" before the end of this 'school year' (by the way, when is the end of your school year?).

Now about the screen: it is rumoured to be 1280*800 (as opposed to 1280*854 on the current 15") so if you value screen real estate, you will be worse off with the new screen. However, there are other considerations like brightness, contrast, colour accuracy, etc... that make a screen good or not. Knowing Apple, there is a good chance that these specs will be (slightly?) better on the new 15".

NicoMan
Click to expand...

Why not have 1600*1000 or some such thing?

It is not like you have to use this high of a screen resolution, but for us that can, it would be nice to have. Especially now that the vid cards can support this kind of thing now.

It could ship set at 1280*800 with a note in the manual stating that it can max out at 1600*1000

Choice is good.
 
Originally posted by yzedf


Why not have 1600*1000 or some such thing?

It is not like you have to use this high of a screen resolution, but for us that can, it would be nice to have. Especially now that the vid cards can support this kind of thing now.

It could ship set at 1280*800 with a note in the manual stating that it can max out at 1600*1000

Choice is good.
Click to expand...

LCDs rarely look good at anything other than their native resolution.
 
Originally posted by yzedf


Why not have 1600*1000 or some such thing?

It is not like you have to use this high of a screen resolution, but for us that can, it would be nice to have. Especially now that the vid cards can support this kind of thing now.

It could ship set at 1280*800 with a note in the manual stating that it can max out at 1600*1000

Choice is good.
Click to expand...

I would love to see the 15" come out at 1600*1000, of course. But to be honest, with the 17" displaying 1440*900, the chances of the 15" coming out with a better resolution than the 17" (which has yet to ship...) are close to 0.00000001%. And, as Frozenstar said, LCDs are not very good at scaling (I mean it doesn't look very nice usually...) so displaying in anything else than their native res is usually not a good idea.

NicoMan
 
Originally posted by yzedf


Why not have 1600*1000 or some such thing?

It is not like you have to use this high of a screen resolution, but for us that can, it would be nice to have. Especially now that the vid cards can support this kind of thing now.

It could ship set at 1280*800 with a note in the manual stating that it can max out at 1600*1000

Choice is good.
Click to expand...

I wanted to add that, it is always better to have your LCD run at the highest possible resolution (native), because fonts/icons/dock can all be resized and benefit from anti-aliasing under OSX. So having a 1600*1000 screen shipped pref'd at 1280*800 with the choice to display a higher res makes close to zero sense.

NicoMan
 
Lest we all forget, the PowerBook G4-15 is the only pro portable computer that still boots in OS 9.

I really don't think we see it disappear until around June-ish, which is when the dual 1.25 OS 9-compatible ones are supposed to disappear as well.

Long live the Ti!
 
Originally posted by john123
Lest we all forget, the PowerBook G4-15 is the only pro portable computer that still boots in OS 9.

I really don't think we see it disappear until around June-ish, which is when the dual 1.25 OS 9-compatible ones are supposed to disappear as well.

Long live the Ti!
Click to expand...

wow. that's a really good point. kudos. though maybe they will just up it a few hundred $ when the new one comes.
 
Originally posted by john123
Lest we all forget, the PowerBook G4-15 is the only pro portable computer that still boots in OS 9.

I really don't think we see it disappear until around June-ish, which is when the dual 1.25 OS 9-compatible ones are supposed to disappear as well.

Long live the Ti!
Click to expand...

My not giving a damn about OS9 notwithstanding, I think this is one of the reasons why we won't see the 15" updated for another couple of months.

NicoMan
 
Originally posted by Shadowfax


wow. that's a really good point. kudos. though maybe they will just up it a few hundred $ when the new one comes.
Click to expand...
Why? You got one and would like to sell yours to get the new ones when it comes out ?

NicoMan
 
Originally posted by pgwalsh
You did call to make sure they have one to show you, right?
Click to expand...

It's the Apple Store in Dallas (#2 or 3 in the country) they get all the stuff first run since it serves such a large market. Note: they are building another apple store in dallas off Knox Street (about 25 minutes from the one in Plano). Great Apple market and great toys (the employees aren't the brightest but then again anyone working in a retail computer store is usually lacking something, otherwise they'd get a better job).
 
re: the poooor design/marketing of the 12" powerbook / implications for next 15"

re: the poooor design/marketing of the 12" powerbook and it's implications for the next 15".

Hello group. This is my first post.

On the motu-mac@yahoogroups.com, I wrote (Motu makes the Digital Performer audio sequencer as well as other professional audio products):

(I understand your position regarding the emac and IMac - although they went half way on this one by only increasing the bus speed.) But the 12" powerbook is new technology.
I don't see why they just can't price it accordingly according to the screen size. Not everyone wants to shlep around a 17" powerbook to get the level 3 cache. At home/studio, one can always hook up a second monitor to the 12" so...

Paul, responded:

Absolutely 100% agreed. It makes sense to move the old line down to move out existing stock (they're doing that with the 15" PowerBook, obviously), but I think Apple made a VERY bad move with the new 12" Powerbook. And it's not just the L3 cache--there are several ways in which the 12" is not up to par with the 17", and that simply makes it less desirably. The strange thing is that Apple is only marketing the 17" in its massive screen and the 12" on its portability. All the things the 17" has that the 12" doesn't are totally glossed-over and not marketed. Why then would they be afraid that the 12" would cannibalize 17" sales? Why not make a true high-end sub-compact? No one will buy the 12" if they want the 17" screen, and no one will buy the 17" if they want ultra-portability. The fact is, there's very little reason to buy the 12" PB over the 12" iBook--THAT is what they should be worrying about.

With the iMacs and eMacs and PowerMacs the line upgrade system makes sense because there's so little cross-over. But in the portable line, it's harder to position the iBooks and PowerBooks to be sufficiently different to merit SEVEN different configurations (four iBooks, three PowerBooks). Why Apple should make the situation worse by positioning the 12" as a "low-end" PowerBook is beyond me--the iBook IS a low-end PowerBook. What they really need is a high-end sub-compact!

Me again, on this forum:

I am concerned that Apple WILL scale down the 17" when bringing out the 15". If so, I would suggest Apple start a "THINK STUPID" campaign. Why do they always do this?

Aryeh :confused:

PS Would have liked a 12" powerbook, but it's just not pro enough for audio work other than basic tracking.
 
Re: re: the poooor design/marketing of the 12" powerbook / implications for next 15"

Originally posted by aryeh
re: the poooor design/marketing of the 12" powerbook and it's implications for the next 15".

Hello group. This is my first post.

On the motu-mac@yahoogroups.com, I wrote (Motu makes the Digital Performer audio sequencer as well as other professional audio products):

(I understand your position regarding the emac and IMac - although they went half way on this one by only increasing the bus speed.) But the 12" powerbook is new technology.
I don't see why they just can't price it accordingly according to the screen size. Not everyone wants to shlep around a 17" powerbook to get the level 3 cache. At home/studio, one can always hook up a second monitor to the 12" so...

Paul, responded:

Absolutely 100% agreed. It makes sense to move the old line down to move out existing stock (they're doing that with the 15" PowerBook, obviously), but I think Apple made a VERY bad move with the new 12" Powerbook. And it's not just the L3 cache--there are several ways in which the 12" is not up to par with the 17", and that simply makes it less desirably. The strange thing is that Apple is only marketing the 17" in its massive screen and the 12" on its portability. All the things the 17" has that the 12" doesn't are totally glossed-over and not marketed. Why then would they be afraid that the 12" would cannibalize 17" sales? Why not make a true high-end sub-compact? No one will buy the 12" if they want the 17" screen, and no one will buy the 17" if they want ultra-portability. The fact is, there's very little reason to buy the 12" PB over the 12" iBook--THAT is what they should be worrying about.

With the iMacs and eMacs and PowerMacs the line upgrade system makes sense because there's so little cross-over. But in the portable line, it's harder to position the iBooks and PowerBooks to be sufficiently different to merit SEVEN different configurations (four iBooks, three PowerBooks). Why Apple should make the situation worse by positioning the 12" as a "low-end" PowerBook is beyond me--the iBook IS a low-end PowerBook. What they really need is a high-end sub-compact!

Me again, on this forum:

I am concerned that Apple WILL scale down the 17" when bringing out the 15". If so, I would suggest Apple start a "THINK STUPID" campaign. Why do they always do this?

Aryeh :confused:

PS Would have liked a 12" powerbook, but it's just not pro enough for audio work other than basic tracking.
Click to expand...

I tell you what: If you put more features in that 12", what will be the point of the 15"(apart from price difference with the 17", that is)?

I do agree that putting more features in one machine is always preferable, but then you become a 1-computer company, and that to the detriment of other computers in the range which would have fitted other consumers' needs better but unfortunately are not viable anymore. You can't put ALL the goodies in that 12", because then you might as well forget about the iBooks, the 15" and the 17". Besides, from what I hear, putting more stuff in that 12"PB would start becoming a technical miracle (look at Kodawarisan's pictures of the innards of a 12-incher, if you don't believe me). All in all, the 15" is STILL a very portable machine (as opposed to the enormous 17"), and when updated with the latest goodies from the alu range, will make a fine compromise machine.

NicoMan

PS1: saying that there is little difference between the iBook and the 12" PB is a bit excessive, IMHO.

PS2: i would love a 13" WideScreen PB dual 1GHz G4 displaying 1440*900 with 1GB PC2700 DDR RAM ATI Radeon 9700 and so on... Is that realistic? hmmm
 
Re: Re: re: the poooor design/marketing of the 12" powerbook / implications for next

Originally posted by NicoMan


All in all, the 15" is STILL a very portable machine (as opposed to the enormous 17"), and when updated with the latest goodies from the alu range, will make a fine compromise machine.

I am getting to this conclusion myself. It's very light compared with PC lap tops. Many are 7.5 lbs or more, though I did find a Fujitsu at 6.4 lbs. The PB 15 is still light weight.

The 17 inch is too large to use on an airline dinner tray, I suspect. The lack of DVI on the 12 inch is disapointing for those of us that would lack to power an Apple monitor or something like the Formac.

If you just need ultraportability for basic functions for road trips, the ibook makes sense. 90 per cent of the time I travel, all I do is check email.
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by NicoMan

Why? You got one and would like to sell yours to get the new ones when it comes out ?

NicoMan
Click to expand...

no, i am just saying, he points out they need an OS 9 portable, which the 15 inch is, and that's a reason not to upgrade the 15. i was pointing out that if they DO updated it, they may sell the old 15 for more for the same reasons they are selling the OS 9 Pmacs at a higher price. i don't want a new powerbook 15 if it has less pixel space. I like mine mighty fine. no, i won't sell it anytime soon.
 
Originally posted by Shadowfax


no, i am just saying, he points out they need an OS 9 portable, which the 15 inch is, and that's a reason not to upgrade the 15.
Click to expand...

I am willing to bet that Apple will upgrade the 15" Powerbooks pretty soon, because it's weird having that model between the 12" and 17" due to the Airport Extreme, DDR Ram, etc. But Apple will keep select OS 9 booting systems for the 15" like what they did with the Powermacs.
 
Re: Re: re: the poooor design/marketing of the 12" powerbook / implications for next 15"

Originally posted by NicoMan
PS2: i would love a 13" WideScreen PB dual 1GHz G4 displaying 1440*900 with 1GB PC2700 DDR RAM ATI Radeon 9700 and so on... Is that realistic? hmmm
Click to expand...

That'd be one sweet machine.

But, even if Apple released a PowerBook with those specs, people would still complain.

You can make some of the people happy all of the time, and you can make all of the people happy some of the time, but you can't make Apple users happy, ever.
 
No OS9 Alternatives

I don't think at least. Obviously they wouldn't raise the price of the current 15" OS9 Ti, so if they had a 15.4" Al at a hefty discount (as is the case with the Powermacs) then they'd be launching the 15" Al at $2300 or so-- which is really cheap. Also the Powermacs with OS9 (I believe) have the same specs as those with only OSX. So the price bump is 100% cause of OS9, whereas the OS9 Ti wouldn't have some expensive features of the 15Al so maybe they'd be the same price? I could see that I guess.

Question though! When do we think they'll have an upgraded PB processor for the 15"? A 1.25GHz Al... in July perhaps? Clearly they won't be upgrading the 12/17 at different times than the 15 so in keeping with the 6month rule are we starting when the 12/17s came out or when the 15 will come?
 
Re: No OS9 Alternatives

Originally posted by jokkka

Question though! When do we think they'll have an upgraded PB processor for the 15"? A 1.25GHz Al... in July perhaps? Clearly they won't be upgrading the 12/17 at different times than the 15 so in keeping with the 6month rule are we starting when the 12/17s came out or when the 15 will come?
Click to expand...

A very balanced design would be 12"-15"-17, 867-1G-1.25G (accordingly). Then, maybe by November/December-Ish, a speed bump to 1-1.25-1.42, after the PPC970 release?:cool: We can hope. . .
 
Upgrades

But that would mean the 12 and 15 inchers wouldn't get speed bumps for almost a whole year. I think a July update to 1Ghz--1.25GHz--1.42GHz is more likely (although it would be a big boost to the 17" from 1GHz to 1.42, they'll offer the 17 in flavors of 1.25 and 1.42 in July I think.
 
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