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15inch PowerBook Details and Supplies
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These Chinese whispers are out of hand and Im going to switch back to an Amstrad. As I understand it from all theses rumours, the next Powerbook is going to sport a backlit 5" thick 1600x1200 15.4 Dell lcd screen, come in Korean only with an aluminium keyboard. No wonder Steve Jobs is pissed with the world.
As I sit playing pacman going blind squinting at a tiny green screen, I look forward to Christmas when the best laptop in the world is released with Panther and International iTunes Music Store thrown in. Somehow I think the back-to-school anthem, which is a relatively recent addition to retail marketing hype, is sort of irrelevant in the context of sales generatable around December 25th. So if Apple miss that market opportunity then sheet the bed.
As I sit playing pacman going blind squinting at a tiny green screen, I look forward to Christmas when the best laptop in the world is released with Panther and International iTunes Music Store thrown in. Somehow I think the back-to-school anthem, which is a relatively recent addition to retail marketing hype, is sort of irrelevant in the context of sales generatable around December 25th. So if Apple miss that market opportunity then sheet the bed.
Guys look at the trend of Apple laptops. They've already missed there they're update cycle for the last two updates. It looks to me that they will wait until an october/november release.
The reason is :
1. Motorola processor shortage...
2. Apple wants to update all the powerbooks at the same time because it figures that the 12" and 17" can last a bit longer in the cycle.
But I doubt number 1, because as someone mentioned if the powerbooks were late is was going to be because of the latest motorola G4 which runs at 1.33 ghz. There shouldn't be supply problems with the chip considering it's been shipping for a while with Xserve's, and that the xserve's although they don't ship in quantity, you can still get them in a good timeframe, which then leads me to thinking that Apple is waiting for number 2.
Now why they are waiting for number 2 to me is pointless. Perhaps they think back to school buyers are stupid, and will not realize that the titanium has been a 1ghz for so long now, or they think they can squeeze out a few more months with it, so that they can update all three models simultaneously.
The reason is :
1. Motorola processor shortage...
2. Apple wants to update all the powerbooks at the same time because it figures that the 12" and 17" can last a bit longer in the cycle.
But I doubt number 1, because as someone mentioned if the powerbooks were late is was going to be because of the latest motorola G4 which runs at 1.33 ghz. There shouldn't be supply problems with the chip considering it's been shipping for a while with Xserve's, and that the xserve's although they don't ship in quantity, you can still get them in a good timeframe, which then leads me to thinking that Apple is waiting for number 2.
Now why they are waiting for number 2 to me is pointless. Perhaps they think back to school buyers are stupid, and will not realize that the titanium has been a 1ghz for so long now, or they think they can squeeze out a few more months with it, so that they can update all three models simultaneously.
Here goes the obsolete thing again. Honestly guys I would buy that if and only if the new line of PBs were a G5 or 2GHz one or some sort of dramatic update. As someone else said here " I odnt care about the updates I only want a 15" PB Al with illuminated keyboard" or something like that. So how much more obsolete is a 1GHz machine than a 1.3GHz one ? I mean the updates will be minor for the most part if only to keep the heat down. So what a 1GHz processor in one years time cannot do that the 1.3 will be able to? Just about nothing really. Yes the graphics card is not great but I dont believe that they will stuff a 9600 in there and I dont think that the DDR on the 15" will give it any significant boost given that the G4 cannot take advantage of it... I dont see Apple increasing the resolution and they might include a 2X super drive. So again what one of the new machines will be able to do that the older ones won't?
After playing with my mom's 12" powerbook, I have to say the speed is not bothering me. Hell my 667 DVI powerbook is just about fine for speed (well i'm also running 10.3), but even in 10.2 its good enough. What I jsut really like is the Alu enclosure, a lot more sturdy and i'm so pissed with my tibook paint chips. Also the keyboard on the alubooks is a lot nicer and smoother and doesn't have this plastiky feel to it.
That is why I want apple to release new 15" Alubooks !
Since Motorola is unable to make enough chips, the the 15.4" was clearly marked for Dell, the only choice was to make a PowerBook without a CPU or a big screen, leaving us with a portable DVD player (hardware decoding) and a leftover 15" keyboard. This, my friends, is the rumored video iPod.
Could someone explain me for which reasons Apple could not be able to release in the next month or two a G5 PB?
I haven't followed the whole discussion about PB with all its technical reasons in the last months but since my wife needs a PB I am trying to catch up.
... just don't know if I should wait for the next processor (not Moto) in the PB.
I haven't followed the whole discussion about PB with all its technical reasons in the last months but since my wife needs a PB I am trying to catch up.
... just don't know if I should wait for the next processor (not Moto) in the PB.
A reason for no G5's
This is just my opinion and is basically what I posed on a different thread.
------ OLD TEXT FOLLOWS ------
Just found the IBM's published power levels on the G5:
1.8 GHz @ 1.3 Volts = 43 Watts
That is too high for a portable
1.1 GHz @ 1.1 Voltes = 19 Watts
(This is below IBM's target frequencies)
Still a little high but you can make it work.
These are based on the .13 uM CMOS technology with their copper interconnects.
From these specification I don't see a G5 running above 1GHz in a laptop and probably won't see one until the Fishkill plant is up and running.
For those of you who really need the specs:
http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/techlib/techlib.nsf/techdocs/A1387A29AC1C2AE087256C5200611780
This is just my opinion and is basically what I posed on a different thread.
------ OLD TEXT FOLLOWS ------
Just found the IBM's published power levels on the G5:
1.8 GHz @ 1.3 Volts = 43 Watts
That is too high for a portable
1.1 GHz @ 1.1 Voltes = 19 Watts
(This is below IBM's target frequencies)
Still a little high but you can make it work.
These are based on the .13 uM CMOS technology with their copper interconnects.
From these specification I don't see a G5 running above 1GHz in a laptop and probably won't see one until the Fishkill plant is up and running.
For those of you who really need the specs:
http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/techlib/techlib.nsf/techdocs/A1387A29AC1C2AE087256C5200611780
nope
I just came back from the Apple store on Long Island NY. I wanted to check out the G5...
well anyways I asked around about the powerbook updates and nobody knew anything.They just said people ask them everyday about it.
I'm guessing Apple thinks the current lineup is fine and they aren't going to update them for a while.
I just came back from the Apple store on Long Island NY. I wanted to check out the G5...
well anyways I asked around about the powerbook updates and nobody knew anything.They just said people ask them everyday about it.
I'm guessing Apple thinks the current lineup is fine and they aren't going to update them for a while.
I am starting to get nervous about even being able to find a current TiBook to buy (i know they are in stock now here and there, but for how much longer), and I can NOT be without a unit for school, so here is my Master Plan:
Monday, goto my local Apple store and purchase a 15" Superdrive TiBook, Applecare, 15GB iPod, HP 7350 Photosmart printer for $3056 at my student discount (I also get $300 back in the mail)
Wait for the next 2 Tuesdays to see if anything is announced, if it is, I am within my 10 day return policy to make a switch. I will make that judgement based on what is announced, and how much the price difference is. Since I assume that the $300 rebate will NOT be honored on the new Powerbook (tho i could be wrong) that may be a tough call. $2756 for that above package is a pretty damn good deal. In fact, that price is about $739 cheaper than current retail on those items, and it is about $1040 cheaper than the normal selling price of that TiBook of $2899. Those numbers make me think that there would need to be something seriously noteworthy on the new AlBook to make me spend an extra $1000 (since I assume the new AlBook will price point at or about $2899)
If i had a gun to my head and had to place a bet, i do not think we will see announcements untill Expo Paris on Sept 16th. I am HOPEING to see something Tuesday, but I really am starting to doubt it.
thats my story and I am sticking to it.
::edited for arithmetic::
Monday, goto my local Apple store and purchase a 15" Superdrive TiBook, Applecare, 15GB iPod, HP 7350 Photosmart printer for $3056 at my student discount (I also get $300 back in the mail)
Wait for the next 2 Tuesdays to see if anything is announced, if it is, I am within my 10 day return policy to make a switch. I will make that judgement based on what is announced, and how much the price difference is. Since I assume that the $300 rebate will NOT be honored on the new Powerbook (tho i could be wrong) that may be a tough call. $2756 for that above package is a pretty damn good deal. In fact, that price is about $739 cheaper than current retail on those items, and it is about $1040 cheaper than the normal selling price of that TiBook of $2899. Those numbers make me think that there would need to be something seriously noteworthy on the new AlBook to make me spend an extra $1000 (since I assume the new AlBook will price point at or about $2899)
If i had a gun to my head and had to place a bet, i do not think we will see announcements untill Expo Paris on Sept 16th. I am HOPEING to see something Tuesday, but I really am starting to doubt it.
thats my story and I am sticking to it.
::edited for arithmetic::
Re: Re: Re: Re: ?
Okay Fine. I guess I suck at reading between the lines.
I still think that neither of these two things is worth any hype. the current Powerbook has a 15.2 and the illuminated keyboard is not THAT cool.
Okay Fine. I guess I suck at reading between the lines.
I still think that neither of these two things is worth any hype. the current Powerbook has a 15.2 and the illuminated keyboard is not THAT cool.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ?
No one ever said that those two things are worth any hype. All that's being said is that those are the only two features that are pretty much confirmed.
screen resolution
For everyone that whines and moans about screen resolution; STOP. The PB has a low resolution, especially for hardware that is supposed to be used in the graphics industry. Think of it this way, those nice new digital cameras take pictures how big? Wouldn't it be great if they could fit more on the screen while doing PS work? I think so. People that say "but the fonts and icons are too small" obviously don't know enough that those can be resized.
Us potential switchers (I have a iPod so far...) have been given choices. With the Mac, there is not much choice. We want more choices. If there were more, there would be more switchers. I can only presume that is what Apple wants...?
For everyone that whines and moans about screen resolution; STOP. The PB has a low resolution, especially for hardware that is supposed to be used in the graphics industry. Think of it this way, those nice new digital cameras take pictures how big? Wouldn't it be great if they could fit more on the screen while doing PS work? I think so. People that say "but the fonts and icons are too small" obviously don't know enough that those can be resized.
Us potential switchers (I have a iPod so far...) have been given choices. With the Mac, there is not much choice. We want more choices. If there were more, there would be more switchers. I can only presume that is what Apple wants...?
Re: A reason for no G5's
A few things about that: [all voltages refer to core voltages]
1) The document you reference is from The Microprocessor Forum in October 2002, which is noted at the bottom of the slide that the power consumption ratings are only an estimate.
2) The document you cite offers 1.2GHz (rather than 1.1GHz) at 1.1v with a power dissipation of 19W (max or avg we don't know)
3) According to MPC7455 documents from motorola, the 7455 (Part no. PPC7455RX1000LC referenced) dissipates Typically 21.3W and at max 30W at 1.6V.
4) Power dissipation on the current G4 Powerbooks is further exacerbated by the addition of 1MB of L3 cache. While I don't have the part number for the cache and therefore cannot examine the power ratings, I would imagine Apple considers this a considerable power drain since L3 cache is disabled by Power management while operating in low power mode.
By switching to a G5, Power dissipation from the processor alone could be lowered by between 2.3W and 11W (while that alone would most likely not increase battery life by any significant margin, it would hedge against shortening of battery life)
However, I still do not believe that the next generation of PB's will be G5's, I am simply stating that a G5 system is feasible in terms of power consumption at least in regard to the processor/cache subsystem. System controller, Memory and other systems may make G5's still unwieldy for laptop use in their current 130nm form.
For comparison here are the G4 7457 numbers: taken from http://e-www.motorola.com/files/32bit/doc/data_sheet/MPC7457EC.pdf
(note that the power consumption of the 1.3GHz 7457 is even lower than the 1.2GHz G5)
A few things about that: [all voltages refer to core voltages]
1) The document you reference is from The Microprocessor Forum in October 2002, which is noted at the bottom of the slide that the power consumption ratings are only an estimate.
2) The document you cite offers 1.2GHz (rather than 1.1GHz) at 1.1v with a power dissipation of 19W (max or avg we don't know)
3) According to MPC7455 documents from motorola, the 7455 (Part no. PPC7455RX1000LC referenced) dissipates Typically 21.3W and at max 30W at 1.6V.
4) Power dissipation on the current G4 Powerbooks is further exacerbated by the addition of 1MB of L3 cache. While I don't have the part number for the cache and therefore cannot examine the power ratings, I would imagine Apple considers this a considerable power drain since L3 cache is disabled by Power management while operating in low power mode.
By switching to a G5, Power dissipation from the processor alone could be lowered by between 2.3W and 11W (while that alone would most likely not increase battery life by any significant margin, it would hedge against shortening of battery life)
However, I still do not believe that the next generation of PB's will be G5's, I am simply stating that a G5 system is feasible in terms of power consumption at least in regard to the processor/cache subsystem. System controller, Memory and other systems may make G5's still unwieldy for laptop use in their current 130nm form.
For comparison here are the G4 7457 numbers: taken from http://e-www.motorola.com/files/32bit/doc/data_sheet/MPC7457EC.pdf
(note that the power consumption of the 1.3GHz 7457 is even lower than the 1.2GHz G5)
Re: screen resolution
Thanks for that - when I first wrote what I wrote, I thought I was on my own wanting a higher resolution
Sid
Originally posted by iPC
For everyone that whines and moans about screen resolution; STOP. The PB has a low resolution, especially for hardware that is supposed to be used in the graphics industry. Think of it this way, those nice new digital cameras take pictures how big? Wouldn't it be great if they could fit more on the screen while doing PS work? I think so. People that say "but the fonts and icons are too small" obviously don't know enough that those can be resized.
Thanks for that - when I first wrote what I wrote, I thought I was on my own wanting a higher resolution
Sid
Howdy folks, firet time poster here, although I've been lurking(ok i've chomped right through it and am now working on my tongue)...
Could all these supposed 'delays', among other things, mean a better graphics chip? What is the best we could expect from ATI? 9600? Anything above 64mb?
Apple shouldn't go welfare on the graphics chip like they did with the iMac.
Hope my tongue is still in one piece by net tuesday.....universityis coming near, although I guess i can take a couple more weks on my old(and i mean OLD) slot loading iMac 400.... *sigh*
Could all these supposed 'delays', among other things, mean a better graphics chip? What is the best we could expect from ATI? 9600? Anything above 64mb?
Apple shouldn't go welfare on the graphics chip like they did with the iMac.
Hope my tongue is still in one piece by net tuesday.....universityis coming near, although I guess i can take a couple more weks on my old(and i mean OLD) slot loading iMac 400.... *sigh*
Stand Off vs 4th Quarter Profits
Each year I purchase Apple Hardware for my department. The total purchase is the in the $80,000 frame. This year it includes a new 17" PB for me and several xServes. Normally I would have placed the order at the end of June and paid for it in July (end of Apple's 3rd Quarter, start of my new fiscal year).
This year I am still holding pat. I need to wait for the G5 xServes because they are four year investments. I run WebObjects applications and the xServes are replacing 64 bit Sun boxes. So I am waiting.
Likewise, the PowerBook is due for revisions. I do not want to purchase a half dozen 1Ghz 17" PBs only to have the 1.33Ghz come out after my order.
The issue now is coming down to how long I can wait it out, and how much Apple needs to juice up its fourth quarter financials.
Let's face it, the G5 was announced at WWDC, but is just shipping now. If Apple wants to pick up its 4th Quarter, announcing and taking orders now is better than waiting until too late in September to get the orders in.
I am sure they want to get more sales out of their existing 12"-17" PBs, but the 15" Ti is way long in the tooth. I surely am not purchasing any Ti Books. They just aren't durrible enough.
So we wait . . . me with my Purchase Order, them with their pending releases. I am keen to see which of us blinks first.
Each year I purchase Apple Hardware for my department. The total purchase is the in the $80,000 frame. This year it includes a new 17" PB for me and several xServes. Normally I would have placed the order at the end of June and paid for it in July (end of Apple's 3rd Quarter, start of my new fiscal year).
This year I am still holding pat. I need to wait for the G5 xServes because they are four year investments. I run WebObjects applications and the xServes are replacing 64 bit Sun boxes. So I am waiting.
Likewise, the PowerBook is due for revisions. I do not want to purchase a half dozen 1Ghz 17" PBs only to have the 1.33Ghz come out after my order.
The issue now is coming down to how long I can wait it out, and how much Apple needs to juice up its fourth quarter financials.
Let's face it, the G5 was announced at WWDC, but is just shipping now. If Apple wants to pick up its 4th Quarter, announcing and taking orders now is better than waiting until too late in September to get the orders in.
I am sure they want to get more sales out of their existing 12"-17" PBs, but the 15" Ti is way long in the tooth. I surely am not purchasing any Ti Books. They just aren't durrible enough.
So we wait . . . me with my Purchase Order, them with their pending releases. I am keen to see which of us blinks first.
Re: Re: More rumors
Hear, hear!
Sadly, businesses are not "the faithful" and they have to make purchasing decisions based on reasonably accurate information (whether the info is good, bad, or ugly). I don't fault Apple for Motorola's problems. I do fault them for being unwilling to admit a problem, take the short-term hit to their stock price, and stave off the uncertainty and speculation that blows such problems out of proportion.
Had Apple announced in May that there was a continuing problem in their receipt of components (without specifically mentioning Motorola) for their next upgrade of the Powerbook line and that a 6 month delay was expected, consumers of Apple products would be able to decide whether to buy or delay rather than wait and guess and get consistently frustrated. The short-term hit to their stock price would've been recovered in the iTMS and G5 announcements. Many would even give Apple kudos for its commitment to its customers.
People are realistic and understand about supplier delays ... if they know about them, that is. What they don't understand is the "cone of silence" about problems that seems to have descended around Apple. And its reasonable for them to do so. While it's true that Apple made no explicit commitments about shipping updated PBs, Apple has purposefully hyped its delivery of new, "insanely great" products and people establish expectations from that past record. Their expectations are real and their computer purchasing decisions are real ... yet Apple's continuing silence suggests a corporate dismissiveness of these very reals concerns of its market. And people wonder why Apple's market share continues to decline.
PCs and Windows may not satisfy to the extent that Macs do, but they do "satisfice" (that's a real term, google it) enough for them to make their purchasing decisions.
Now, as I near the 1 month mark of using the Toshiba laptop that my company was forced to buy under a technology refresh requirement (because they had no credible information from Apple to justify further delay ... and, yes, such requirements are a routine part of corporate and government work), I'm heartsick to report that I'm at least as productive with it as I have been with a Mac OS X system. I'm not a troll here ... I've been a die-hard Mac user since 1987. But I can't keep my life on hold to appease Apple's (or Steve's) arrogant whimsy. Yes, I'm having to learn a new OS (XP) and I'm anxious about Microsoft's attitude towards its users as well as potential hardware defects that may surface ... but these concerns are not onerous as yet.
I guess it's about time to dump my Apple stock ... I would rather deal with a Microsoft OS than Apple's arrogance and intransigence any longer ...
Hear, hear!
Sadly, businesses are not "the faithful" and they have to make purchasing decisions based on reasonably accurate information (whether the info is good, bad, or ugly). I don't fault Apple for Motorola's problems. I do fault them for being unwilling to admit a problem, take the short-term hit to their stock price, and stave off the uncertainty and speculation that blows such problems out of proportion.
Had Apple announced in May that there was a continuing problem in their receipt of components (without specifically mentioning Motorola) for their next upgrade of the Powerbook line and that a 6 month delay was expected, consumers of Apple products would be able to decide whether to buy or delay rather than wait and guess and get consistently frustrated. The short-term hit to their stock price would've been recovered in the iTMS and G5 announcements. Many would even give Apple kudos for its commitment to its customers.
People are realistic and understand about supplier delays ... if they know about them, that is. What they don't understand is the "cone of silence" about problems that seems to have descended around Apple. And its reasonable for them to do so. While it's true that Apple made no explicit commitments about shipping updated PBs, Apple has purposefully hyped its delivery of new, "insanely great" products and people establish expectations from that past record. Their expectations are real and their computer purchasing decisions are real ... yet Apple's continuing silence suggests a corporate dismissiveness of these very reals concerns of its market. And people wonder why Apple's market share continues to decline.
PCs and Windows may not satisfy to the extent that Macs do, but they do "satisfice" (that's a real term, google it) enough for them to make their purchasing decisions.
Now, as I near the 1 month mark of using the Toshiba laptop that my company was forced to buy under a technology refresh requirement (because they had no credible information from Apple to justify further delay ... and, yes, such requirements are a routine part of corporate and government work), I'm heartsick to report that I'm at least as productive with it as I have been with a Mac OS X system. I'm not a troll here ... I've been a die-hard Mac user since 1987. But I can't keep my life on hold to appease Apple's (or Steve's) arrogant whimsy. Yes, I'm having to learn a new OS (XP) and I'm anxious about Microsoft's attitude towards its users as well as potential hardware defects that may surface ... but these concerns are not onerous as yet.
I guess it's about time to dump my Apple stock ... I would rather deal with a Microsoft OS than Apple's arrogance and intransigence any longer ...
okay, so no new PowerBooks, this week. One of the sites said that they could come in the next couple of weeks, but who knows, they might just have been trying to cover themselves.
at this rate we might be seeing G5 PowerBooks this year. You just don't keep a revision of PowerBooks going for so long to give it a 250-330MHz speedbump. Apple has been working on something, and they have been unusually tight lipped about the PowerBook specs, and it feels to me like there have been a unusually low number of rumors. and we all know that Apple is really good at keeping secrets for big products...
Apple might release a PowerBook G5 in the next couple of months considering that they have now waited this long. Apple has also gone and made big jumps in the PowerBook line before. remember when the 1GHz TiBooks came in? everyone wasn't expecting 1GHz, maybe 933MHz. and no one was expecting a SuperDrive.
at this rate we might be seeing G5 PowerBooks this year. You just don't keep a revision of PowerBooks going for so long to give it a 250-330MHz speedbump. Apple has been working on something, and they have been unusually tight lipped about the PowerBook specs, and it feels to me like there have been a unusually low number of rumors. and we all know that Apple is really good at keeping secrets for big products...
Apple might release a PowerBook G5 in the next couple of months considering that they have now waited this long. Apple has also gone and made big jumps in the PowerBook line before. remember when the 1GHz TiBooks came in? everyone wasn't expecting 1GHz, maybe 933MHz. and no one was expecting a SuperDrive.