15inch PowerBook Details and Supplies

[shecky]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Uh... check your math...

$2899-$1039=$2756?

I think you meant $1043. 😉

no..the old selling price on JUST the TiBook was $2899 (i think?) my math was a little off on my original post tho - corrected. thanx 🙂

---------------------------------------------------

Normal Retail (before price drop on TiBook):

TiBook Superdrive - 2899
15GB Ipod = 399
HP 7350 = 149
Applecare = 349

TOTAL = $3796

---------------------------------------------------

Current retail (post TiBook price drop):

TiBook Superdrive = 2599
15GB Ipod = 399
Applecare = 349
HP 7350 = 149

TOTAL = $3496

----------------------------------------------------

Price at Education:

TiBook SUperdrive = 2299
15GB ipod = 369
Applecare = 239
HP 7350 = 149

total before rebate = 3056
TOTAL POST REBATE = $2756

----------------------------------------------------

Price Difference between original retail and current educational = $1040

 

[AHDuke99]

Powerbook G5 in September

People, the reason the Powerbooks are delayed is because we will see a G5 Powerbook in September. Yes, thats right, a G5 Powerbook. Remember the rumors back in May that Apple has ordered large amounts of 1.3-1.4ghz 970's. WELL, where do you think they are, I don't believe for a minute that it's taken 9 months to update the case and speed bump the processor. Come on people, you can't be that stupid!!! Apple is redisigning the motherboard to house the G5 chip, thats why the delay, they'd already be here if they were G4's, count on that, every rumor site has been wrong, and I'm not about to believe that Steve is going to dissapoint us like this, really. He and Apple both want to release the "Worlds first 64-bit Laptop". And on September 22nd, AMD will release theirs, 6 days after Paris. The iMac updates won't be using the 7457 processor according to TS, the 1.25 ghz 7455 is too hot to use in the Powerbooks, esspecially the 12". The reason the 12" will lag is because it won't get the G5 at this time, because Apple will have to wait for the 90nm G5's in January, at MWSF, we'll see the 12" move to the G5. This is all very logical, and I don't think Apple will disappoint, and they know if they release just a speed bumped G4 after a 9 month wait, theres gonna be some pissed customers.

 

[shecky]

Ya know, not knowing anything about the actual ins and outs of processor design and nanometers and whatnot, i hafta admit that AHDuke's post does make sense.

of course, it could make sense just based on my own ignorance.

 

[erik19]

AHDuke99, I think you may be on to something(and its not jsut because I'm thinking wishfully or trying ot rationalize stuff). .....I think ol' Stever Jobs may indeed pull that off...completing his efforts for the release of a "pant crapper" (thats a good thing), and also validate that silly 'year of the laptop' thingy he said....

Here's hoping....

 

[ahol19]

YOU ARE KIDDEN ME RIGHT!?!?!
I have heard these rumors for at least 6 months now. If these arent right i will kill someone for making them up.

Adam

 

[deep_stoat]

Re: Powerbook G5 in September

Originally posted by AHDuke99
People, the reason the Powerbooks are delayed is because we will see a G5 Powerbook in September. Yes, thats right, a G5 Powerbook. Remember the rumors back in May that Apple has ordered large amounts of 1.3-1.4ghz 970's. WELL, where do you think they are...

Interesting point, AHDuke99... can anyone elaborate on the May rumor you mentioned? Was it ever confirmed?

--

 

[bentmywookie]

Originally posted by erik19
AHDuke99, I think you may be on to something(and its not jsut because I'm thinking wishfully or trying ot rationalize stuff). .....I think ol' Stever Jobs may indeed pull that off...completing his efforts for the release of a "pant crapper" (thats a good thing), and also validate that silly 'year of the laptop' thingy he said....

Here's hoping....

I agree. I think AHDuke99 might be onto something. Not that this is the best speculating, but usually ThinkSecret seems to also find out the full specs on updates and this time they have nothing - not even if it will be 7457 or not. And maybe that's what's up with the other 10.2.7 update - blackrider. Maybe apple didn't want to incorporate it all into Smeagol because something in it would have given it away that they are putting the G5s into powerbooks.

I know I'm just fanning the flames, but man it's fun, and the guy does bring up good points.

 

[Phil Of Mac]

Re: Powerbook G5 in September

Originally posted by AHDuke99
People, the reason the Powerbooks are delayed is because we will see a G5 Powerbook in September. Yes, thats right, a G5 Powerbook. Remember the rumors back in May that Apple has ordered large amounts of 1.3-1.4ghz 970's. WELL, where do you think they are, I don't believe for a minute that it's taken 9 months to update the case and speed bump the processor. Come on people, you can't be that stupid!!! Apple is redisigning the motherboard to house the G5 chip, thats why the delay, they'd already be here if they were G4's, count on that, every rumor site has been wrong, and I'm not about to believe that Steve is going to dissapoint us like this, really. He and Apple both want to release the "Worlds first 64-bit Laptop". And on September 22nd, AMD will release theirs, 6 days after Paris. The iMac updates won't be using the 7457 processor according to TS, the 1.25 ghz 7455 is too hot to use in the Powerbooks, esspecially the 12". The reason the 12" will lag is because it won't get the G5 at this time, because Apple will have to wait for the 90nm G5's in January, at MWSF, we'll see the 12" move to the G5. This is all very logical, and I don't think Apple will disappoint, and they know if they release just a speed bumped G4 after a 9 month wait, theres gonna be some pissed customers.

I was once very hostile to PowerBook G5 rumors (read my sig, I got tired of posting it in every thread 🙂 ), but I think you might be on to something too.

Joswiak said "a while". From June to September is three months, a significant chunk of any product cycle. Maybe that's what he meant by "a while".

While delays of the Motorola 7457 are an obvious reason for a delay of new PowerBooks, Steve knew this was coming. Remember, the release date was originally Q4, then bumped up to May, then bumped back down to Q4. So Steve originally knew Q4 was the next G4 chip. Steve knew that Q4 was a probable release date for future G4 PowerBooks. He also know that Q4 was too late for a G4.

Your theory holds credence. I think Joswiak may have meant that the PowerBook G5 wouldn't be introduced soon enough to upstage the Power Mac G5.

Then again, it does contradict many rumors, many confirmed rumors. Even if there was a new PBG4 in the works, it may have been killed without any of us knowing about it Introducing a new product in May and then another new one in September is on the short side--4 months. But the original iMac only lasted from August 98 to Jan 99.

If the PBG4 was delayed, Steve would have good reason to just kill it if the G5 was imminent. And since the two rumors confirmed in this thread have nothing to do with anything that would indicate processor type...maybe?

Or maybe that's just wishful thinking. For what it's worth, the Apple rep at the student bookstore says "It'll be within 30 days," while dismissing my suggestion that it'll be this very week (this conversation was on Wednesday) saying, "Don't believe the rumors sites".

 

[Snowy_River]

Re: Powerbook G5 in September

Originally posted by AHDuke99
People, the reason the Powerbooks are delayed is because we will see a G5 Powerbook in September...

Well, I'd really like to think that you're right. I'd say that it makes some sense, too. A few extra months to get a different system controller tested out to make sure that it runs cool enough.

I was one of those that advocated the idea of simultaneous PB/PM G5 launch. Obviously that didn't come to pass. But, given the word that the system controller is the limiting factor keeping the G5 out of the PowerBooks, it doesn't seem too unreasonable to me that they'd have taken a few extra months to put the finishing touches on a new SC that can run in the PBs.

Of course, these may be somewhat crippled G5 PowerBooks, just as the first G3 PowerBooks were somewhat crippled, but they'd still be screamers!!

 

[Phil Of Mac]

Re: Re: Powerbook G5 in September

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Of course, these may be somewhat crippled G5 PowerBooks, just as the first G3 PowerBooks were somewhat crippled, but they'd still be screamers!!

But crippled screamers can be fun, especially if they put out a lot! 😉

 

[MasterMac]

While it would be extremely nice to see G5 PB's in September, I would highly suggest not getting your hopes up for it. I've been disapointed pleanty times already (first the WWDC, then MW in July, then all these other "Tuesday" release dates), that I don't need to be disappointed again if, when the update does eventually come out, it's not a G5, but instead just that 1.25GHz (or 1.33GHz) "minor" revision.

 

[galopagos]

Oh dear GOD get out some...

Guys, IBM's chips as they stand now need three f*cking fans to keep the case from turning into T1000's likeness on my hardwood floor. No damn way, not when IBM can't keep up with making the current power-sucking chips, can apple get G5 'books out soon. Hell, all the G5's aren't even out yet!

Slow the hell down... I'll buy Motorola's G4+ chip, a LITTLE speed, and maybe for fun the ability to swing the screen around, tabletPC style (at least that way I'd be sure a powerbook is what i'd want... those tabs look prime for notetaking in my masters classes).

 

[crees!]

Re: Re: Powerbook G5 in September

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
Joswiak said "a while".

He didn't say "a while".. he said empatically, "NOT ANY TIME SOON". There is a sharp difference between the two. But if you want to be even more disappointed keep wishing for it then. I just don't want to hear you all pissing and moaning about a G5 PB anymore. It'll be January 2005 before those puppies are out. A year and a half is a hell of alot of whining (wishing out loud) to do.

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
From June to September is three months, a significant chunk of any product cycle.

Don't make me laugh. 3 months, thank god you're NOT on any marketing team. You'd be dishing out new products before people had the chance to buy the last one. No one would buy because things would be "outdated".. as you all whine about already now.

 

[Phil Of Mac]

Re: Re: Re: Powerbook G5 in September

Originally posted by crees!
He didn't say "a while".. he said empatically, "NOT ANY TIME SOON". There is a sharp difference between the two. But if you want to be even more disappointed keep wishing for it then.

3 months is not soon.

Originally posted by crees!
Don't make me laugh. 3 months, thank god you're NOT on any marketing team. You'd be dishing out new products before people had the chance to buy the last one. No one would buy because things would be "outdated".. as you all whine about already now.

This is the computer industry! 9 months is a (too) long product cycle, 4 months is a short product cycle. 6 months is about right. 33 to 75% of a product cycle is a significant chunk. So is 50%, a good median value.

Waiting half a product cycle is usually not a logical decision.

 

[sacrilicious]

Since I've been paying attention to Apple, I've seen a glorious PB update to include a 1ghz processor and a slot-loading SuperDrive, and I've seen a G5 that nobody apparently expected.

A G5 PowerBook sounds pretty neat.

Classes start the 29th of September, and I am not buying a machine until the PowerBook updates. Here's to hoping.

 

[Bascule]

Just my 2 cents. about a G5 PB and updates.

I'm quite sure we will see updates soon.
I know people are saying you can pick up current powerbooks in somplaces but I in the UK thats not thae case.
Ive not had a chance to go to any apple resellers in London but the online stores I've checked are out(or very low) As reported before JonLewis only have 2 12" and 7 17" dabs.com (a very big online computer store) has 1 15 and 1 17" with quntaites of the 15 and 17's due in 1-3 days (interestingly its been like this for ~3 days now which normaly menas down stream supply problems)

So on the supply front I belive something is afoot.could be CPU/Component shortages but think a update is more likely

Im waiting as I want the APE and bluetooth built in on a 15" (17 is to big for my needs and 12" is slightly to small)

As to a G5 PB yes it would be nice but I dont really expect it to happen soon (not that Id complain)
for the follwing resons.

1. Heat (as people have said) / battery life
2. A laptop is not a scaled down desktop its a lot different
3. Yes (and this might upset people) the G5's are inherently faster than the G4. But 10.2.7 and 10.2.3 are _not_ 64 bit OS's they are 32bit with a 64bit addressing system (please corect me if Im wrong) Im guessing 64 bit apps are out there (or due soon) but the kind of apps get the best performance boost from a beeing 64 bit are the things you would not generally run on a powerbook
(you dont need the larger address space)

So I just dont see it beeing worth it (okay this is a technical rather than a marking issue) unless (and I will add this) the G5 would not cost more than the G4)

G5 Power books in 8 months -- 14 months and Im quite sure they will look nothing like the current versions. that gives apple 1-2 more revisions.

Like I said (way above :+) just my 2 cents.

Im waiting cos I want a non windows laptop. and I currently feel linux on the high end laptops is a bit of a pain (ACPI never worked great on my vaio)

Cheers

(oh an in case your wondering this is beeing typed from a Dual Ultra Sparc II 2 (6bit)

[edited after morning coffee]
[edited again to add important not ]

 

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by Bascule
I'm quite sure we will see updates soon.
I know people are saying you can pick up current powerbooks in somplaces but I in the UK thats not thae case.

That's really a nonissue.

I mean, yes, Apple likes to put things into shortage before updating them (the last iPod, anyone?) but they don't have to sell every single one before an update.

Originally posted by Bascule
3. Yes (and this might upset people) the G5's are inherently faster than the G4. But 10.2.7 and 10.2.3 are _not_ 64 bit OS's they are 32bit with a 64bit addressing system (please corect me if Im wrong) Im guessing 64 bit apps are out there (or due soon) but the kind of apps get the best performance boost from a beeing 64 bit are the things you would generally run on a powerbook
(you dont need the larger address space)

So I just dont see it beeing worth it (okay this is a technical rather than a marking issue) unless (and I will add this) the G5 would not cost more than the G4)

64 bit or not, the G5 is still much, much faster.

 

[sacrilicious]

Originally posted by Bascule
3. Yes (and this might upset people) the G5's are inherently faster than the G4. But 10.2.7 and 10.2.3 are _not_ 64 bit OS's they are 32bit with a 64bit addressing system (please corect me if Im wrong) Im guessing 64 bit apps are out there (or due soon) but the kind of apps get the best performance boost from a beeing 64 bit are the things you would generally run on a powerbook
(you dont need the larger address space)

Err, crap. That whole Blackrider thing just came back into my head. So much for G5s.

 

[Bascule]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac

64 bit or not, the G5 is still much, much faster.

I agree, but until its cheep enough it wont go in to a PB (or anyother model)

and a lot of that speed (i belive) requires arch changes so Its a big (expensive) job.
Not going to happen soon [IMO]

 

[Kermit]

Originally posted by bikertwin
Apple, please deliver a much higher resolution for the new PowerBook. I can deal with a G4, but it has to be a higher resolution, or I'll resort to a desktop.

When I first learned that Apple was expected to switch to a 15.4" display on the expected new Powerbooks (up from 15.2") I was shocked to learn that this increace in screen size would actually mean a decrease in screen resolution. Rumors claimed that it would go from 1280x856 (15.2") to a resolution of 1280x800 (15.4"). This in my mind is just absurd. Dell also delivers a 15.4" laptop these days and offers a choice of two resolutions for it. The high-end has a crisp 1920x1200 WUXGA screen and the low-end offers a measly 1280x800 WXGA screen-resolution.

If the rumors are true (either for this Powerbook update of a future one) that Apple would downgrade its display on their professional line of computers so that it would match that of Dell's budget variant, I might have to think twice about making the switch I have so long yerned to make.

Personally I think that there must be middleground to find here, because while I find the current resolution of 1280x856 unsatisfactory the 1920x1200 resolution offered by Dell may, for some people, be too much. Surely Apple could offer the high-end WUXGA display as a BTO-option or use a resolution that is higher than today yet not quite as high as the one on the high-end Dell portable. Personally I hope that the last of the two options is the way forward for Apple's 15.2" (possibly 15.4") Powerbook.

What do you think?

 

[Squire]

Re: Re: Re: Powerbook G5 in September

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
But crippled screamers can be fun, especially if they put out a lot! 😉

Nice.

Can anyone confirm that Apple did purchase 1.3 GHz chips in May?

Squire

 

[dietsoda]

G5?

OK, let's think about this...

Everyone seems to agree that Apple must have intended to release new powerbooks way before now. So if this is the case, and if it is Motorola that is the problem, when DID they want to release? And what would be the projected timeframe for the release after that? Are we getting closer to the 2nd update than we are now to the 1st?

G5's... people have mentioned power/heat as a problem with the G5, while others have suggested that a G5 in the region of 1 - 1.25ghz would actually require less power than current G4s. A recent post also claimed that price would be a limiting factor with the current G5, but wasn't it said that the G5s were actually cheaper than the G4s?

Steeeeeeeeve mentioned that Apple have been working with IBM for a couple of years back at the launch of the G5, so we have to presume Apple have had quite a while to develop machines around these chips.

Apple has historically made the best profits on it's desktops, is this correct? If so, is it possible Apple have been delaying the release of a G5 laptop until after everyone has recieved their G5 PowerMacs? So as not to hurt Desktop sales. It seems the announcment of the G5 was made just as soon as IBM could get G5s up to 1.8 - 2ghz. So in the mean time, what were apple doing with the lower power chips?

Maybe Arn could give us a little round-up of any relvant rumors about the G5's cost, heat/power specs, and quantitites ordered by apple.

I've not been expecting a G5, PB, but...

If it is cheaper, and it is at least comparable in regard to heat/power, and Apple did order significant quantities of lower frequency G5 chips, then what would prevent a G5 PB?

Are we at the point where it's only really the now infamous "No G5 in a powerBook any time soon" quote that sways it? Because if so, I prefer the other quote, from the big guy, "Year of the Laptop".

 

[vrapan]

Yes let's think about it:

when DID they want to release

nobody knows if they intended to release or they are going to release or whatever. nobody seems to know anything.

Are we getting closer to the 2nd update than we are nowto the 1st?

How do you get closer to the 2nd update when you never have had a 1st update? we are getting closer to the 1st update because at some point they will be updated. The 15" will be getting his 4th update.

G5's

Apple would release them as soon as they can not a day later not a day earlier. If they are cheaper or more expensive hotter or cooler the G5 is the way ahead so they will be released but not sooner than they should or could. As for cheap - expensive well the PBs are expensive laptops so I dont think price is that big of an issue for Apple.

Apple has historically made the best profits on it's desktops, is this correct?

No. This is the "year of the laptop" cause Laptop revenue were more than Desktop revenue. the year of the laptop is in terms of sales and money made not amount of revisions of laptops released. And that includes all the PC industry. Laptops are right now better sellers with higher margins than Desktops.

So G5 "not any time soon" (and i think that is 6 - 12 months time frame at least) is just that. Not any time soon. So anyone that needs a computer now buy it and be happy.

 

[AidenShaw]

64-bit laptops have been around for years

Originally posted by AHDuke99
He and Apple both want to release the "Worlds first 64-bit Laptop".

Tadpole's been selling SPARC and Alpha notebooks for many, many years.

Want an UltraSPARC book with 4 GiB of RAM, go to http://www.tadpolecomputer.com/exec.php?p=prod-note.

 

[soggywulf]

Re: Re: Re: Re: A reason for no G5's

Originally posted by chancellor
The big question is whether the current G5 has power management features built in. I haven't seen clear evidence one way or the other. Without advanced power management in the G5, a G5 Powerbook is a non-starter.

The desktop G5's have the ability to dynamically throttle back to 1.3 GHz if the plastic cover is removed. That indicates to me that enough power management is there for the powerbook--right now.

Originally posted by chancellor
Apple may be waiting for the 0.9 micron G5s because they will be the first to sport advanced power management.

If they are waiting for 0.9, they are waiting too long. IMO.

Originally posted by Snowy_River
It's the system controller that's too hot for the PowerBooks.

Is it? How much power does the current controller dissipate? Wouldn't a 600 MHz bus and 500 MHz memory bandwidth (as opposed to 800/666 and 900/800 etc) alleviate this problem? And how would delaying the G5 powerbook solve this problem? (I hope the answer to that last question is not "waiting for 0.9")

If what you say is really the case, then it adds even more need for Apple to have been designing a laptop system controller over the past year, to allow for release now.

Originally posted by AHDuke99
People, the reason the Powerbooks are delayed is because we will see a G5 Powerbook in September. Yes, thats right, a G5 Powerbook. Remember the rumors back in May that Apple has ordered large amounts of 1.3-1.4ghz 970's. WELL, where do you think they are, I don't believe for a minute that it's taken 9 months to update the case and speed bump the processor.

I like this. A happy marriage of wishes and logic. 🙂 WTG AHDuke.

Originally posted by crees!
Don't make me laugh. 3 months, thank god you're NOT on any marketing team. You'd be dishing out new products before people had the chance to buy the last one. No one would buy because things would be "outdated".. as you all whine about already now.

Thank god you're not on Apple's strategy team--else we'd all still be using 604's.

Originally posted by galopagos
No damn way, not when IBM can't keep up with making the current power-sucking chips, can apple get G5 'books out soon.

Please check the power requirements of the 1.2 GHz G5.

Originally posted by vrapan
No. This is the "year of the laptop" cause Laptop revenue were more than Desktop revenue.

I disagree. I think this is just our interpretation of his statement in the rumors community, our explanation for a lack of G5 powerbooks. Didn't Steve say this in a public forum, somewhat targeted to Apple customers? Not rhetorical, I actually don't know. If so, then "year of laptop" should have nothing to do with something as pedantic (to a customer) as sales figures--it should be something cool about the laptops like a G5. 🙂