15inch PowerBook Details and Supplies

[legion]

Re: 64-bit laptops have been around for years

Originally posted by AidenShaw
Tadpole's been selling SPARC and Alpha notebooks for many, many years.

Want an UltraSPARC book with 4 GiB of RAM, go to http://www.tadpolecomputer.com/exec.php?p=prod-note.

Used to have one of these in college. They were damn cool (and compiled code like a dream.) Alas, they were also fairly expensive (about $5G at the time-- which is comparable to today's high-end Mac (loaded properly) if you ignore inflation rates)

I'm sure Apple, however, would spin their laptop as "first" and "fastest." Clever how marketing depts can tailor the parameters for claims to make things seem more buzz worthy... 🙄

 

[ThomasJefferson]

No G5 Powerbook

There will be no G5 powerbook this time around. The G5 still has too many issues to overcome before Apple can make that product.

The problem here is the G4. Never underestimate the incompetence of Motorola. Remember how many months we spent with the G3 at 500 MHz?

Calm down folks. This is going to be a speed bumped alu-book. Nothing more. They will be awesomely stylish and worth the money, as they are - without the G5. And I would have been happy to buy one, but ....

... my car is having a near-death experience. Anybody out there have the Impala? Looks to be in my pricerange....

Here I have this pile of cash and *zap. Reality bites.

 

[chmorley]

What Joswiak said

Just to check, I went back and read the MacCentral article again. It's hard to imagine that when he said, "As you can see, [the G5] is not going in a PowerBook anytime soon," he meant three months.

At best, it's a long shot. The truth is, none of us knows, and the signs point the other way.

I looked for the "1.3 GHz G5" rumors and wasn't able to find anything. I did, however, find these two:

According to the source, the next revision of the Motorola G4+ PowerPC, the 7457, will top out at 1.33 or 1.4GHz (1.0GHz, 1.17GHz, 1.33GHz, 1.40GHz?) in February 2003, and will stick there until July 2003, when another 7457 revision should arrive, promising to push the chip up to a more respectable 1.83GHz (1.50GHz, 1.67GHz, 1.83GHz). (MR, 12/02)

and

The newest and fastest members of the Motorola, Inc. (NYSE:MOT) G4 family of PowerPC® processors, the MPC7457 and MPC7447, are now available. The devices run at speeds up to 1.3 GHz, making them the highest performing G4 host processors available for embedded applications.(MR 2/03)

I wonder if people are just confusing these rumors. These also might be taken as an indication that Motorola might have made some promises that made Apple want to stick with them for another year or so.

And who knows--maybe Moto's failure to produce (again) made Apple change their minds and delay the PB to put the G5 in. Or maybe all of it is BS.

Still, the people calling those in doubt "stupid" are a bit ridiculous...or 15. I remember being pretty sure of all the crap I made up at 15.

Chris

 

[soggywulf]

Re: No G5 Powerbook

Originally posted by ThomasJefferson
There will be no G5 powerbook this time around. The G5 still has too many issues to overcome before Apple can make that product.

What are the issues? Other than design work, which Apple has had plenty of time for, I don't really see any issues left.

Originally posted by chmorley
Still, the people calling those in doubt "stupid" are a bit ridiculous...or 15. I remember being pretty sure of all the crap I made up at 15.

Naw, no one is calling anyone else stupid...yes we are all guessing, but I think there is quite a bit of (technical) evidence indicating G5 powerbooks soon.

 

[chmorley]

Re: Powerbook G5 in September

Originally posted by soggywulf
Naw, no one is calling anyone else stupid...

No?

Originally posted by AHDuke99
... don't believe for a minute that it's taken 9 months to update the case and speed bump the processor. Come on people, you can't be that stupid!!!

And on the flipside I'd say there is also a lot of "evidence" (more?) that the G4 will still be in the next Powerbook.

cjm

 

[Squire]

Plenty of Time

Originally posted by soggywulf
What are the issues? Other than design work, which Apple has had plenty of time for, I don't really see any issues left.

We keep hearing "plenty of time" and I'm starting to believe it.

I was just reading an article about the PPC 970 (got it off of IBM's site) and noticed that the date was Oct. 28/02.

"For now, IBM is being conservative. The 970 will debut at clock rates from 1.2 GHz to 1.8 GHz when fabricated in a... (some technical talk)...IBM estimates power consumption at 19W (typical) at 1.1V for a 1.2GHz part, and 42W (typical) at 1.3V for a 1.8GHz part. Sampling will begin in 2Q03, with volume production scheduled in 2H03."

Question: Can the 1.2 GHz chip work in a laptop? Anyone?

Squire

 

[sockseller]

Re: Powerbook G5 in September

Originally posted by AHDuke99
People, the reason the Powerbooks are delayed is because we will see a G5 Powerbook in September. Yes, thats right, a G5 Powerbook. Remember the rumors back in May that Apple has ordered large amounts of 1.3-1.4ghz 970's. WELL, where do you think they are, I don't believe for a minute that it's taken 9 months to update the case and speed bump the processor. Come on people, you can't be that stupid!!! Apple is redisigning the motherboard to house the G5 chip, thats why the delay, they'd already be here if they were G4's, count on that, every rumor site has been wrong, and I'm not about to believe that Steve is going to dissapoint us like this, really. He and Apple both want to release the "Worlds first 64-bit Laptop". And on September 22nd, AMD will release theirs, 6 days after Paris. The iMac updates won't be using the 7457 processor according to TS, the 1.25 ghz 7455 is too hot to use in the Powerbooks, esspecially the 12". The reason the 12" will lag is because it won't get the G5 at this time, because Apple will have to wait for the 90nm G5's in January, at MWSF, we'll see the 12" move to the G5. This is all very logical, and I don't think Apple will disappoint, and they know if they release just a speed bumped G4 after a 9 month wait, theres gonna be some pissed customers.

I said that like 7 pages ago...

 

[soggywulf]

Re: Re: Powerbook G5 in September

Originally posted by chmorley
No?

OK, fine...but I think that was only in a lighthearted, argumentative sense. 🙂

Originally posted by chmorley
And on the flipside I'd say there is also a lot of "evidence" (more?) that the G4 will still be in the next Powerbook.

That's why I said "technical evidence". The rumorological evidence leans the other way, I agree.

Originally posted by Squire
Question: Can the 1.2 GHz chip work in a laptop? Anyone?

I don't see why not, as long as Apple has done its design work. Moreover, I don't see any particular reason to wait. Especially since (1) only 19W @ 1.2 GHz, and (2) it appears that the G5 is perfectly capable of being throttled to save power and reduce heat.

 

[DHagan4755]

All right, I'll add flames to the fire.

From Think Secret:

October 31, 2002 - There has been much speculation that at least the high-end models of both product lines might include a SuperDrive with DVD-RW/CD-RW capabilities. Let us put this issue to rest: There will be no Superdrive version(s) announced.

So Think Secret got the detail wrong about the SuperDrives when it came to the last Ti revision, so who's to say they are right when they say "PowerBook G4?" How is it that Think Secret has all the details WRT the iMac, but not PowerBooks? Boy, Apple is keeping an awefully tight grip! Or are they?

Bill M, a poster on Apple Insider's forums said the following:

Earlier this week, while visiting an Apple Store, a young woman there mentioned something that left me in shock. We were part of a small crowd being given an iChat AV demo. When the Apple rep paused his presentation so a few of us could get a hands on test of an Aiport and iSight enabled 12"PB, she turned to me and said something to the tune of: Apple has a killer 15" PB replacement for the week of Aug/25. I will sport a 1.2ghz IBM 970 processor at the same price point of the current model. I immediately asked if she meant a faster Mot G4, her reply being that she knew for a fact that the upcoming 15" will have a low power IBM 970.

To cut a long story short, her comments in summary:
- low power G5 (low speed??? low wattage???)
- same price as current 15" w/superdrive
- full specs and form factor as current 17" Al PB
- better battery life
- cooler (temperature)
- introduction and shipping date week of Aug/25
- performance info coming from her acquaintance at IBM
- form and price coming from bits she heard elsewhere

She mentioned that it would have a 50% to 75% overall performance boost over the current model, mostly due to a much faster "internal bus" and, obviously, the new G5. I couldn't believe her comments but tried to hide my skepticism and let her follow through with her story. She mentioned that her husband had pre-ordered a dual 2.0g G5 and that she would get the new "PBG5" by the end of the month, at the same time the "slower" G5 towers will start shipping.

This might have been yet another wishful thinking conversation between 2 Mac fanatics, but I still find her story quite credible. While my limited technical knowledge prevents me from shooting down her claims, she didn't seem to be the type that would make up a story like that just to share it with a total stranger.

I won't hold my hopes up for a PBG5 in just a few weeks, since I will get whatever Apple brings in place of the (aging) TiBook, G4 or else. But something similar to what this woman described would certainly fit in line with Jobs comments about this being the year of the portables.

The iChat demo was over and the crowd dispersed. We exchanged e-mail addresses as she promised to keep me posted if she learned anything new. Our conversation ended soon thereafter. Over the last couple of years, I have had numerous discussions with friends and strangers alike regarding upcoming Apple products; this is the first time I feel comfortable enough to post a roundup.

Just a couple of clarifications about my original post above. First of all, I wasn't like taking notes or anything of that sort. I am just relying on my old and fuzzy recollection of the event. So, albeit the conversation lasted several minutes, only the most juicy details stuck in my mind. Alas, it is not a matter of why I award this woman so much credibility in her comments, but rather that I find it hard to believe she would make up such a story and share it out of the blue if she didn't believe it. Could she have been misguided? Probably. Did I fall for a too good to be true story? Probably, only time and whatever Apple delivers will tell. Either way, I am on the market for a new PowerBook (just sold my Ti400), so I am sure I will get anything Apple delivers as a 15" PB replacement. Hopefully that means soon. Ok, back to the story...

When the woman mentioned that she expects to get the new PBG5 at the same time the "slower' G5 towers start shipping, she was talking about the 1.6 and 1.8 G5s, as compared to the fastest dual 2.0 G5s that should (according to her husband) ship in late september. She never meant that the new PB would be faster than any of the new towers. My fault, if I misrepresented that.

"Same form factor as the current 17"PB"... I believe those were her words, but alas she was talking about the material and overall appearance at the time. I don't think she meant size.

Even if her comments were half true, or utterly false, it was indeed an interesting conversation. As I said, I have heard even more sensational stories before, that have proven to be all lies or fabrications, but I thought this was worth sharing here this time around.

I just sent her an e-mail, in case she remembers our conversation and wishes to add anything new. If and when she replies, I will post any news here.

Sounded suspicious to me at the time, but after the recent delay, the seeming imminence of PowerBook updates, and the somewhat alignment with the date mentioned above, it has changed my view slightly. Discuss.

 

[bikertwin]

Originally posted by Kermit


Personally I think that there must be middleground to find here, because while I find the current resolution of 1280x856 unsatisfactory the 1920x1200 resolution offered by Dell may, for some people, be too much. Surely Apple could offer the high-end WUXGA display as a BTO-option or use a resolution that is higher than today yet not quite as high as the one on the high-end Dell portable. Personally I hope that the last of the two options is the way forward for Apple's 15.2" (possibly 15.4") Powerbook.

What do you think?

I think you're right.

Dell also has an intermediate resolution of 1680 x 1050 pixels. Isn't that the same as the Apple 20-inch desktop monitor?

Wow, imagine getting the equivalent of a 20-inch monitor (in a 15" form factor) and a G5 processor in an Aluminum PowerBook! I'd pay US$2600 for that!

With specs this good, no wonder they're keeping this under wraps until the desktop G5's ship.

Sign me up...

Or maybe it's all just a fantasy. In any case, I'd be perfectly happy with a 1.25 GHz G4 with a higher-resolution screen. Hopefully less than $2600, though.

 

[chancellor]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A reason for no G5's

Originally posted by soggywulf
The desktop G5's have the ability to dynamically throttle back to 1.3 GHz if the plastic cover is removed. That indicates to me that enough power management is there for the powerbook--right now.

Which processor is this on? The 2.0 GHz?

 

[chancellor]

Re: What Joswiak said

I looked for the "1.3 GHz G5" rumors and wasn't able to find anything. I did, however, find these two:

I think this may be the articled being referenced:

https://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/05/20030513120543.shtml

 

[pimentoLoaf]

If Apple isn't going to be using the 7457's for notebook/laptop CPU's, what then? Perhaps as some kind of support chip in a G5 portable?

 

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by pimentoLoaf
If Apple isn't going to be using the 7457's for notebook/laptop CPU's, what then? Perhaps as some kind of support chip in a G5 portable?

Well, how about a new G4 iBook? (Basically the 12" PowerBook rebranded, of course...)

 

[crayzaysean]

the 12" pbook IS the g4 ibook, so you're probably right. it was the ibook team that designed it. an apple support guy posted it on the apple support message board. i can't remember what the link is, but it was posted on this forum. I guess the 12" REALLY isn't supposed to get the g5 anytime soon.

 

[Phil Of Mac]

Re: G5?

Originally posted by dietsoda
A recent post also claimed that price would be a limiting factor with the current G5, but wasn't it said that the G5s were actually cheaper than the G4s?

Probably cheaper to produce, because of Fishkill.

Originally posted by dietsoda
Are we at the point where it's only really the now infamous "No G5 in a powerBook any time soon" quote that sways it? Because if so, I prefer the other quote, from the big guy, "Year of the Laptop".

I think the "any time soon" period of time has passed.

 

[Phil Of Mac]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A reason for no G5's

Originally posted by soggywulf
If so, then "year of laptop" should have nothing to do with something as pedantic (to a customer) as sales figures--it should be something cool about the laptops like a G5. 🙂

Steve Jobs said this at MWSF this year. When he said it, however, he actually explained what he meant. And what he meant, was that laptops started to get a bigger and bigger share of the market. So yes, it did have to do with sales figures. Jobs said it did.

 

[ncbill]

Consider the heat issues in portable design

There is NO heat related reason to keep the G5 out of the 15" AlBook.

An underclocked G5 (1.2-1.3GHz) would dissipate roughly the same amount of heat as the new 7457 G4s.

But for the same reason, we won't be seeing even the new G4 in an iBook anytime soon, unless the iBook loses its polycarb case (5W max for the G3 vs 20W+ for the G4)

I'm still skeptical of a G5 Powerbook...

Anyway, Apple needs a 15" AlBook (even based on the old G4) ASAP - a critical gap in their product line now exists.

 

[soggywulf]

Originally posted by DHagan4755
Sounded suspicious to me at the time, but after the recent delay, the seeming imminence of PowerBook updates, and the somewhat alignment with the date mentioned above, it has changed my view slightly. Discuss.

Sounds like that other AI story concerning the two Apple employees at the bar, leering at waitresses and spilling G5 beans. But hey, maybe this woman has the inside track. Would be cool if so. 🙂

Originally posted by chancellor
Which processor is this on? The 2.0 GHz?

All of them, I believe. There is an Apple help document on this issue. I will attempt to find it now...

Ahh, here it is. Doesn't mention the number 1.3 per se, just a "reduced speed". I saw the 1.3 number elsewhere.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=86412

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Well, how about a new G4 iBook? (Basically the 12" PowerBook rebranded, of course...)

Absolutely. Actually, they could just move the current powerbooks down to the ibook line just as they are. Save some re-design resources. Which can be used for the PBG5. 🙂

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
Steve Jobs said this at MWSF this year. When he said it, however, he actually explained what he meant. And what he meant, was that laptops started to get a bigger and bigger share of the market. So yes, it did have to do with sales figures. Jobs said it did.

Ahh, I see. Damn. 🙁 Oh well...we can still hope.

 

[AllenPSU]

Re: 19W G5 at 1.2GHz

Originally posted by Squire
IBM estimates power consumption at 19W (typical) at 1.1V for a 1.2GHz part, ...

Question: Can the 1.2 GHz chip work in a laptop? Anyone?

19 Watts is a bit high for a laptop but you can make it work. Lets assume that heat won't be a problem, and you go with a processor that uses around 19 watts (typically). That means you can actually lower the power a little by using some power management tools at the OS level to maximize battery life. Another option would be to put a bigger battery (in Amp-hours not necessarily physical size).

So it is possible, but I wouldn't expect it, but Apple can surprise us if they want to!

 

[robinci]

PowerBook G4 15" restock date

The big German Apple dealer Cyberport (www.cyberport.de) posted the restock dates of the old 15 inch TiBooks (867MHz Combo, 1GHz Superdrive): August 28.

The last time the iBook was updated (800MHz --> 900MHz) Cyberport's web site indicated an April 22 restock date for the old 800MHz model. That was when the new ones were released...

Actually, that would perfectly match DHagan's story with the release in the week of August 25 - whether G4 or G5.

 

[cr2sh]

When the new powerbooks are released they'll have optical audio i/o.. and I'm going to be pissed.

 

[crees!]

Posted in wrong forum.

 

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by soggywulf
Absolutely. Actually, they could just move the current powerbooks down to the ibook line just as they are. Save some re-design resources. Which can be used for the PBG5. 🙂

Maybe THAT'S been what the rumors have been about, while the PBG5 is supersecret 🙂

Originally posted by soggywulf
Ahh, I see. Damn. 🙁 Oh well...we can still hope.

Well, Steve also said Apple fully intends to exploit this drift. They haven't done well yet, but a PowerBook G5? I'm waiting for it 🙂

 

[Rocketman]

Reply summmary

IBM Fishkill (what a name) is the savior of Apple Computer.
And related to another reply . . .
As soon as Apple can deemphasize Motorola on an actual product basis the better.

I predict 1.5 years to Motorola abandonment.

You can be SURE a PB G5 is burning a hole in Steviepoo's pocket. He is pissing titanium or aluminum or watever since he knows full well this is not only the "year of the laptop" but the semi-decade of the laptop.

If he thought he could do it underclocked he would, because criticize Steve Jobs all you want, but if it takes severely crippling a product to get it out the door, he is never below that.

And since Ti/AL/PB is his "baby" you can be sure he will over featuritis it as much as possible. Just look at his current top of the line. The Al PB G4 17". It has 1000 EN (!!) and 800 FW (!!), and of course turbo WiFi (!!) and Superdrive (!!).

That thing is on featuritis steroids considering the crippleware Motorola chip crammed down Steve's throat under contract (very late and in crippled quantities).

I suspect you will not see a Steve compatible Powerbook till 90nm by IBM Fishkill G5 is shipping (anything sooner should be treated as a Rev A (beta).

Rumours from Apple employees at the bar are absolutely the most reliable on this website.

Rocketman