16-Inch MacBook Pro Replaces Discontinued 15-Inch Model, Pricing Ranges Between $2,399 and $6,099

[Melodeath]

EDIT : Sorry, I just realised you asked me about ram and VST plugins.. I can barely make do with 32 because I do orchestral mockups with tons of sampled instruments.. But disk streaming gets me the rest of the way.. If you are only using algorithmic rather than sampled based stuff, you can get away with 16GB.. but really, this is 2019.. Mojave is ram hungry, I am not sure about Catalina.. I think 16GB is the bare minimum to *scrape* by.. I would NOT like to be on 16Gb, honestly. Even when I am using a few safari tabs I have 17Gb available out of 32.. This means I'd be maxed out on the 16Gb model (as I was on my 2014 MacBook Pro).. I have to shut everything off when I load logic or Cubase to make or mix music.. I like having headroom. My iMac pro has 64Gb ram, and I have managed to max it out on a huge project.. so.. yeah.. it really depends on what sort of music you make. When I am making EDM for my own pleasure, I don't use much ram at all. When it's serious work, I do.

I checked one my recent "heavy" projects and it's only using 9gb out of 16. I'm also on OS X 10.10, though, not Catalina, and don't know how RAM requirements differ.

32gb would be nice to future-proof, but $400 seems like a lot for something that's never been an issue for me. Going to have to think about this.

 

[urbanmacUser]

Is there any change in the physical size?

 

[lec0rsaire]

Yea, but even a fair number of people on these threads, who knew full well about the complaints of the 2016-2019 laptops still swore by them and bought them. Not sure where those folks are now, but I have this mental image of them looking at their 'beloved' 2019 15-incher this morning, thinking "well **** me"

I’ve been using my 2016 15” and still love it. I never broke my keyboard like countless others and I embraced TB3 and the Touch Bar from the beginning. Every year there is better tech. It’s really that simple. If you always keep waiting and waiting you will never have anything. Those who bought a 15” after the announcement should have had some patience but if they needed a machine right away then waiting was not an option.

Now on to the machine:

These are the sorts of specs people wanted to see back in 2016. Unfortunately Intel had horrible delays which continue to this very day. I mean there is still no high performance 10 nm notebook CPU with the new and improved Intel iGPU and it’s almost 2020. AMD finally produced a non-Vega GPU with double the bandwidth which again could’ve come sooner but still nice. I agree that Apple should’ve offered 32 GB in 2016 and they ended up going with standard DDR4 anyway so the delay was pointless.

One of the features that may have gone a little unnoticed is variable frame rate. By being able to do 47.95 & 48 Hz, this means this 16” MBP can do 2:2 pull down to play film based video properly without resorting to 2:3 pull down which always has film judder. Ditto for 50 Hz allowing our European and international friends to view 25 Hz content properly.

Otherwise the display seems to be mostly the same. Brightness is the same as before.

To me the big highlight of the announcement is Apple finally adjusting NVMe prices much closer to where they should be. It was really criminal that Apple was offering a 256 GB drive for $2400 while 1 TB of a comparable NVMe drive like the Samsung 970 Pro can be had for $170. It was unacceptable and not even the most diehard Apple supporter could defend this.

The biggest disappointment is that Apple hasn’t upgraded the cam to 1080p. There’s really no excuse for this. In 2016 it was a disappointment but in 2019 it’s ridiculous. I hope the next refresh changes this.

But all things considered this is great update combined with a significant price drop. I wonder if they will redesign the chassis completely or just refresh this design next year.

For $3700 you get an i9, 32 GB RAM, 2 TB and the top 5500M which should be a solid balanced config for most. Of course it’s not cheap but it’s a much better price for what you get compared to past half decade.

 

[MacBH928]

So how do people who praised the butterfly keyboard feeling now?

 

[lec0rsaire]

Is there any change in the physical size?

It’s possible and if so the difference is very small. Keep in mind that the 15” MBP wasn’t 14 point something or 15.0”. They’re 15.4” so this is just 0.6” bigger which can be accomplished by thinning the bezel.
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So how do people who praised the butterfly keyboard feeling now?

Well it will probably feel very similar to the butterfly since it’s very low profile. It just won’t jam from people eating cookies. I’m sure many of the complainers will complain regardless because it’s not the old keyboard from 2012-2015.
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Yep. Storage prices down across the board so anyone who bought a 13” or 15” within the last two weeks should return their Mac to an Apple store ASAP!

 

[urbanmacUser]

To answer my own question....

2018 MacBook Pro 15"
Size and Weight

• Height: 0.61 inch (1.55 cm)
• Width: 13.75 inches (34.93 cm)
• Depth: 9.48 inches (24.07 cm)
• Weight: 4.02 pounds (1.83 kg)

2019 MacBook Pro 16"
Size and Weight

• Height: 0.64 inch (1.62 cm)
• Width: 14.0.9 inches (35.79 cm)
• Depth: 9.68 inches (24.59 cm)
• Weight: 4.3 pounds (2.0kg)

 

[flexiboy1912]

In other words, you can't afford it. Cool post.

No I can easily afford it , get your facts correct. I was saying its expensive for a laptop

 

[Lalatoon]

if the thermals hold up, this will be a great notebook which has a perfect compromise screen size/overall size/weight, and really the only place it loses out is against laptops with RTX series cards.. But still.. Those 2070 mobiles and stuff are overkill for the 1080P screens they are sold with.. it's just silly..
That said, if you want native res gaming on the 16", it will be at low to medium settings to sustain 60FPS, and that will be with the 8GB model.
I am more than certain that for HD gaming, which is what I was talking about, the 8GB 5500M will play all current games at 60 FPS at high or ultra settings.

with rtx 2070 (not max-q) + 32gb ram I can only go as far as 70 to 80fps highest settings in Witcher 3. im already running turbo performance on the laptop with g-sync on and it is having a hard time reaching the full potential of the screen which is 144hz. Im not even sure if i was able to get 144fps with Diablo 3. When playing action and racing games you would want to squeeze as much fps as you can... this means that 2070 is not overkill in laptop not even full 2080 because of the thermal limitation.. and also going 4k is not very wise if you plan on gaming because you will be stuck at 60fps and besides at arms length you will not notice if its 4k or 1080p anymore. In gaming for laptop the best resolution is 1080 and for desktop its 1440.

but maybe this approach on laptop design will help a lot with thermal problems

ROG Mothership- Redefine How You Play

ROG Mothership moves from a design which traditionally sits flat to one that stands tall to draw more air into its advanced cooling system.

www.asus.com

 

[MallardDuck]

Is there any change in the physical size?

Yes, but very slight.
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with rtx 2070 (not max-q) + 32gb ram I can only go as far as 70 to 80fps highest settings in Witcher 3. im already running turbo performance on the laptop with g-sync on and it is having a hard time reaching the full potential of the screen which is 144hz. Im not even sure if i was able to get 144fps with Diablo 3. When playing action and racing games you would want to squeeze as much fps as you can... this means that 2070 is not overkill in laptop not even full 2080 because of the thermal limitation.. and also going 4k is not very wise if you plan on gaming because you will be stuck at 60fps and besides at arms length you will not notice if its 4k or 1080p anymore. In gaming for laptop the best resolution is 1080 and for desktop its 1440.

but maybe this approach on laptop design will help a lot with thermal problems

ROG Mothership- Redefine How You Play

ROG Mothership moves from a design which traditionally sits flat to one that stands tall to draw more air into its advanced cooling system.

www.asus.com

Good perspective, thanks

 

[JosepPont]

yeeeeah, it’s here!!!

I’ll buy one for video, audio but almost photo. I see the improved graphic card so I am thinking to buy the 64gb, 8gb and i9 2,3GHz.

Do you know how it will work in a game like GTA 5?

Thanks guys!

 

[Rafterman]

That seems exceedingly odd since my maxed out 2016 15" has a trade in value of almost $2000CDN. Maybe you should try doing the quote again and this time believe that Apple doesn't suck but rather you didn't complete the query correctly? Negativity breeds negative results.
[/QUOTE]

Good point, I will try.

 

[Trusteft]

Yeah Apple Computer were always expensive, but you could always go with base model and upgrade RAM and HD.
with ram and ssd soldered onto the motherboard you loose the ability to upgrade and repair.cost of this does not show in initial purchase price, but 3 years down the road when your 2011 still works fine but your 2016 is riddled with issues and had second keyboard replacement and the Apple care runs out... you realize you should have 3x the price to get real cost compared to old macs.

I don't disagree with you about having the option to replace yourself anything you need. I do disagree with typing loose instead of lose. Very different meanings.
Still, by the time 3-4 + years later you need to upgrade your ram to 64GB, I am pretty sure the machine is going to be not even as good as the base model of whatever is out that year.

 

[aknabi]

The saddest words I've read today: "Apple Store Pickup is currently unavailable"

I want it now. 2.3 8 core with 16/1TB is $2599 after edu discount and it's a stock model so they may have it in the store right away.

Because a bit of a wait is the end of life as we know it?

 

[Trusteft]

These are the sorts of specs people wanted to see back in 2016. Unfortunately Intel had horrible delays which continue to this very day.

If I had a dollar (I prefer euro) for every time an Apple customer/potential customer, complained about Intel being the problem behind Apple computers, I would probably have enough money to actually buy a new Apple computer.

(don't take this personally or seriously)

 

[DanielEAndersson]

Is 4 vram to little. What option are you ordering?

 

[Marekul]

I don't disagree with you about having the option to replace yourself anything you need. I do disagree with typing loose instead of lose. Very different meanings.
Still, by the time 3-4 + years later you need to upgrade your ram to 64GB, I am pretty sure the machine is going to be not even as good as the base model of whatever is out that year.

i have the perfect excuse though, wrote the comment on a bbutterfly keyboard

About the upgrades, that might be true, but the ram and disk upgrade cost ~250€ while a new MacBook Pro costs 3400€ - because you still need to upgrade that 512gb drive and 16gb Ram in the base model...

 

[bgalakazam]

Meanwhile my early 2014 Air is still current. For anything else you need there is eGPU. This new 16" is a sweet laptop and by no means will be obsolete in 5 years.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

No there are zero benefits for the end customer. In the contrary. From engineering and customer perspective it is the dumbest thing you could do.
It makes only sense for Apple to decrease device lifespan, and force customers to upgrade on purchase, and pay apples very special RAM and SSD prices.

I googled it and found the benefits, but it’s not like you really want to know what they are anyway. And if you do, you can find them like I did. Apple does everything you say they do and they will STILL have soldered memory

 

[Funky_Alphonzo]

It's a shame that anyone carries this water for Apple.

There are so many pro machines out there in the Windows world that are thin, light and user upgradable.
Apple gives the user no tangible advantage by soldering everything in there.

It's done solely to drive very expensive upgrades at the time of purchase from Apple and it is incredibly user hostile.

I am not saying there aren’t windows alternatives... but we are talking about mac’s here.

Same point... any windows portable wont be as powerfull as a windows desktop ... just depends on how ‘portable’ you really need it to be.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

If I had a dollar (I prefer euro) for every time an Apple customer/potential customer, complained about Intel being the problem behind Apple computers, I would probably have enough money to actually buy a new Apple computer.

(don't take this personally or seriously)

Yeah, because Intel has actually been the problem, you’d have PLENTY of money!

 

[Trusteft]

Is 4 vram to little. What option are you ordering?

Depends on what you plan on doing with the machine. 4GB can be plenty or not enough. If you plan on having multiple monitors, get the 8GB. If you plan on doing heavy video editing, get the 8GB, if you plan on doing some serious gaming, get a gaming computer. I mean, the 8GB should help at some games, but to need the 8GB for gaming you would have to play at high enough resolutions that the GPU probably couldn't handle them that well in the first place.
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Yeah, because Intel has actually been the problem, you’d have PLENTY of money!

I have no idea what that means.

 

[Velin]

Ports? Get over it and move on. The old ports aren't coming back, and thank goodness for that. TB3+ and USB-C is the future. Apple changed the above things because they were sorely needed improvements that EVERYONE wanted. The ports? Nope. Most pro users don't want the old ports and appreciate the performance, and near infinite options that TB3 brings. Now we have choice, that we didn't have before. I've said before, if Apple didn't push these envelopes, then we'd still be using DBA, SCSI (terminators? ugh), and floppy drives....

If you really need USB-A, HDMI, SD cards, Ethernet, etc. then get any of these: https://www.hypershop.com/collections/usb-c-hubs/ -- again, choice!! One (or even two) of those hubs plus the Mac is still significantly less to carry around than if Apple had to increase the size of the machine to include all those ports back inside it - making it likely similar to the 2015 model in size and weight. No thanks!! At least some of us Pro users do NOT want that.

Aside from which, how to please everyone? There are countless different port combinations that no matter what combination Apple chose to build in, couldn't possibly please everyone. Why should I have a laptop that includes an SD slot instead of more of something else when I NEVER use SD. And the same goes for any of the other ports and combinations. No. One all powerful port that provides near infinite choices that we never had before... That's the future....

Pretty good logic here. Probably mirrors Apple's design thinking. I'm happy with four TB3 / USB-C ports. It's all you need. And today, compact, trustworthy adapters for USB-A or anything else are readily available for a very low price.

Basically, I agree with you, and happy Macbook Pro is all-in on TB3 / USB-C.

 

[TTOZ]

with rtx 2070 (not max-q) + 32gb ram I can only go as far as 70 to 80fps highest settings in Witcher 3. im already running turbo performance on the laptop with g-sync on and it is having a hard time reaching the full potential of the screen which is 144hz. Im not even sure if i was able to get 144fps with Diablo 3. When playing action and racing games you would want to squeeze as much fps as you can... this means that 2070 is not overkill in laptop not even full 2080 because of the thermal limitation.. and also going 4k is not very wise if you plan on gaming because you will be stuck at 60fps and besides at arms length you will not notice if its 4k or 1080p anymore. In gaming for laptop the best resolution is 1080 and for desktop its 1440.

but maybe this approach on laptop design will help a lot with thermal problems

ROG Mothership- Redefine How You Play

ROG Mothership moves from a design which traditionally sits flat to one that stands tall to draw more air into its advanced cooling system.

www.asus.com

Interesting point.. and the 5500M gets around 60 FPS at ultra settings 1080P in Witcher. The 2070 is so much more powerful, that I think we are hitting thermal constraints as you said, or power constraints.
The mothership is 10 THOUSAND dollars here.. I wouldn't even consider it.. it's not portable.. for that price I buy an iMac pro with 5K screen, 10 core CPU, 64GB ram, Vega 64X.. And run windows on it whenever I feel like it

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I have no idea what that means.

It means both that you’d have enough euro’s to buy a MBP AND that Intel was a big ol’ problem for like 4-5 years now (Don’t take it seriously or personally, though.)

 

[Lalatoon]

Interesting point.. and the 5500M gets around 60 FPS at ultra settings 1080P in Witcher. The 2070 is so much more powerful, that I think we are hitting thermal constraints as you said, or power constraints.
The mothership is 10 THOUSAND dollars here.. I wouldn't even consider it.. it's not portable.. for that price I buy an iMac pro with 5K screen, 10 core CPU, 64GB ram, Vega 64X.. And run windows on it whenever I feel like it

Its not power constraint because the power brick of https://www.asus.com/Laptops/ROG-Zephyrus-S-GX502/ is 230watts enough to power the CPU and the GPU to its full capabilities.
Its thermal constraints.. even with its noisy fan when in turbo boost mode and more advance cooling system I can always hit 95c plus on both GPU and CPU in room temperature.

I guess one reason why Apple doesn't go for a much powerful GPU is power and thermal. Desktop grade GPU like RTX 2070 or 2080 (not maxQ) are power hungry and heats a lot. Power means less battery life and a huge power brick and also if I am not mistaken USB C power delivery is only limited to 100Watts which is not enough to power the whole system.

I guess Macbook will be stuck at low power GPU unless there is a change in its unibody design to help with thermal issues. But I dont think that will happen because Macbook are more of a form factor than raw power and most Macbook users will not be happy bringing with them a huge 200watts power brick since USB C power delivery is not up to the challenge yet.