So I read through all the comments to this point and selected a few to consider in my reply, and my thoughts are...
What the **** is wrong with some of you people?!
As close as possible to spec for spec this thing is nearly US$1000 cheaper than a maxed out previous 15" model.
Before the significant price drops a few months ago, a maxed out 15" was about $1500 MORE expensive than this maxed out 16" (with double the ram and processor and much faster graphics).
People complaining about the entry level price...? Wtf? This specs in this thing are amazing for a laptop. Compare this with anything else comparable on the market from any other (decent) computer company and it's on a par.
Sure 2-3 years ago the performance of the MacBook Pros kinda sucked and it was hard to really call them Pro, but this is a portable Mac Pro. If you can't afford the price of this base model then what are you using it for that needs this kind of power? If you need a bigger screen than the 13" or the Air then get a refurb for a whole lot less with all the same warranty and so on as a new one. Otherwise get a 13". What's the problem??
This is (almost) the
Pro MBP that we've all been asking for. (Nearly) every complaint has been addressed:
- performance (everywhere)
- better cooling/thermal management
- keyboard (scissor, inverted T, physical esc key)
- higher max specs
- better pricing
- etc.
Ports? Get over it and move on. The old ports aren't coming back, and thank goodness for that. TB3+ and USB-C is the future. Apple changed the above things because they were sorely needed improvements that EVERYONE wanted. The ports? Nope. Most pro users don't want the old ports and appreciate the performance, and near infinite options that TB3 brings. Now we have choice, that we didn't have before. I've said before, if Apple didn't push these envelopes, then we'd still be using DBA, SCSI (terminators? ugh), and floppy drives.
If you want Magsafe, get any of these:
https://www.google.com/search?q=USB-C+magsafe -- you have choice!! There's countless options. If none of those suit your needs, then you're impossible to please.
If you really need USB-A, HDMI, SD cards, Ethernet, etc. then get any of these:
https://www.hypershop.com/collections/usb-c-hubs/ -- again, choice!! One (or even two) of those hubs plus the Mac is still significantly less to carry around than if Apple had to increase the size of the machine to include all those ports back inside it - making it likely similar to the 2015 model in size and weight. No thanks!! At least some of us Pro users do NOT want that.
Aside from which, how to please everyone? There are countless different port combinations that no matter what combination Apple chose to build in, couldn't possibly please everyone. Why should I have a laptop that includes an SD slot instead of more of something else when I NEVER use SD. And the same goes for any of the other ports and combinations. No. One all powerful port that provides near infinite choices that we never had before... That's the future. If you really want to stay in the past then buy a refurb 2015 machine and stay in 2015. Otherwise come into 2019+ and stop complaining.
Soldered RAM and Storage? Again, the right choice. Soldering it makes for much fewer points of failure, and makes more space for better cooling. The two complaints people have about this soldering are:
- Something goes wrong you have to replace the entire logic board instead of just a piece. Ok. Why is that a problem? Buy AppleCare, and then it's Apple's problem not yours - for three years.
- Can't upgrade. Wrong. Buy what you need. What are you possibly doing that needs more RAM or storage (and more of nothing else) later than you need now? When you're ready to upgrade, sell the old one and buy a new one. I've been doing that for as long as I've owned Apple products, and it's no more expensive and keeps me up to date with everything, not just RAM and storage.
Each time I've mentioned these two before, people say "what if I want it for more than three years?". Then you need to think about your needs. What are you doing NOW that needs the kind of power in one of these, that won't need the same
relative power in 3+years (ie. the kind of power that will be available in 3+ years)? Or... what were you doing 3+ years ago that needed the power of a brand new MBP then that doesn't need the power of a brand new MBP now? If in 2022 you don't need the power that you'll get in a new 2022 model, then you don't need the power that's in this one now.
So instead, NOW buy a 2 year old one on the refurb store for half the price of one of these, since that's the power you need now, and then upgrade that to one of these (which will be 2 years old on the refurb store then and half the price it is now, at that point).
THAT's how you UPGRADE your Mac. This is how things work now - and it's how it should work - and it's not going back. Educate yourself and understand the improvements that come with soldering these in. And educate yourself on the economics of upgrading this way instead of piece by piece in an otherwise aging machine. Everything is integrated now, and that gets better results. This is the future, and I for one don't want them to go back, and lose those improvements.
WiFi6? What do you want Apple to do? Correct me if I'm wrong on this one but as I understand it this is Intel's limitation not Apple's. Apple has put the best processors readily available into these machines and those processors are the limitation. What more do you want (from Apple), assuming I haven't got this one wrong?
720p Camera? The higher res ones just don't physically fit, so again what are they supposed to do?
All that said, I said "(Nearly) every complaint...". This isn't quite perfect. The TouchBar still sucks and not making it optional is disappointing. But... What else?!
You people who are STILL complaining after THIS upgrade... you just don't get it. Why don't you put your efforts into educating yourself and becoming a better person (which will in turn improve your computer purchases and use) instead of sitting around whining?
Do you have any idea what's actually in this when it's fully loaded? What's the problem?
And at the other end I think you don't understand what "entry level" means. It's a pro machine, not entry level. The "entry level" mac laptop is US$1099 or UK£1099 (MacBook Air). And for what it is, it's pretty amazing too.
Exactly. Except maybe this step in the right direction is more than tiny...? lol.
From all accounts so far (including my own use), Catalina appears to be one of the most stable and safe releases in years. The only real problem is for anyone still relying on any 32-bit apps. If that's the case though, a virtual machine is a great solution. (My employer is still using 8 year old FileMaker 11 [current version is 18]. I'm running it in a Parallels virtual machine running Yosemite. But I needed that in every macOS since El Capitan anyway). I've found Catalina to be very solid.
Yep. Sigh.
Why "don't say [you] to buy dongles"? Buy dongles. Although no, don't buy a bunch of dongles. Buy one tiny portable hub, of which there are countless choices to choose from (see my link above), plus any of the USB-C Mag-Safe solutions I linked above. What's the problem?
I agree with you on the TouchBar though.
Actually it's less. Agreed, good show.
1 of these maxed out is less than the base Mac Pro and not far off similar performance I expect - certainly comparable with the iMac Pro. So one of these plus a decent monitor and you don't need the iMac at all, surely?
Yep.
Why? It's a pointless waste of graphics performance and battery life. Normal people with perfectly good vision will see absolutely no difference. If anything I just wish they'd make it brighter (more nits).
Exactly.
Umm... yeah. As someone else said, value isn't about price, it's about what you get for it. Brand new BMW with no compromises for $2399? That would be tremendous value. A dinner spoon for $2399, not so much. The stuff that's in this Mac for $2399 - perhaps not tremendous, but certainly very good value.
It's not about how many pixels it's about ppi. All Mac displays are now in the 218-226ppi range, and that's because it's the least power hungry etc. ppi that, for all but a few very special people, you can't see the pixels no matter what resolution you set the dispay to. Which also means all but a few very special people can't see the difference between 2x or 1.5x or any other x. If you can, then you're either very special, or possibly deluded (which I suppose is another form of special anyway).
It's called resolution independence. Any physically higher ppi is a pointless waste of battery life and graphics card/chip power.
Mind you, If you don't like Apple's resolution independence implementation, perhaps you should try Windows' train wreck of an implementation and get back to us.
Yep. Pretty sweet.
Exactly. I've been clamoring for 64GB and at least 6TB since before the 2016 models came out. I'm one of those cases. I got the maxed out 2017 (quad core, 16GB, 2TB) as soon as it arrived, until I swapped it for the maxed out 2019 15" a few months ago (couldn't wait). That doubled those specs at least (8-core, 32GB, 4TB). I will still upgrade to this pretty soon, and I'll max it out too (to double the RAM and storage again - 64GB, 8TB). And I'll use all of it, and what I use it for will pay for it pretty quickly. That's what this stuff is for. Not web browsing and email. Lol.
Yeah. That's a bummer. But physical escape key at least. Thank goodness.
Hmm... ok. And so how much does that 801.11ax and LPDDR4 RAM cost? How "Cheapskate" are Apple being here really? You really think it's a $ thing? Sigh...
Does any other laptop on the market have more than 16GB of LPDDR4 RAM? From everything I'm reading Coffee Lake (these 9th Gen chips) doesn't support it. Likewise, from everything I can find, the 802.11ax is an Intel limitation not Apple. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this one. But I'm pretty sure this isn't a "Cheapskate" thing. Jeez.
Which is still bigger and heavier than this new 16" plus one or even two of these:
https://www.hypershop.com/collections/usb-c-hubs/ . But hey, if the 2012 is the best choice for you, good for you.
My employer. And if I was still self employed like I used to be, I would. And so would other people for whom the power and versatility it provides helps them do their jobs which makes them much more money than that $6K in the time they'll own it. Problem?
Umm... huh? Buy what you need. What do you want more later for that you don't want it for now?
Huh? What's in this that isn't good value?
Is Wifi6 possible in these? Isn't that an Intel Coffee Lake limitation? Correct me if I'm wrong.
What do you want it for? As I said above it's a pointless waste of graphics processing power and battery life.
Taking the smeg. Lol. If not for the "AUD" reference, that shows you're an Aussie. I'm in the US now, but born and bred in Australia. Australian Mac prices have always been inflated, since the birth of Apple. But so is everything else. Cars (except the Aussie Holdens and Fords), every computer brand, almost anything from almost anywhere in the world other than Australia is more expensive in Australia.
But these prices are comparable to the past. I spent A$9-10K on a Mac laptop more than once in the past. That's often been Apple's maxed out price in AUD. "No laptop is worth that"...? Depends what you're using it for. Sure it's not worth it to you, but how can you speak for everyone?
Relative specs of MacBooks and iBooks. Lol. Ok. If you say so.
This just makes no sense.
Still no extension cord... really? Most of us have countless spares of these lying around. Why should they include it so I can get yet another one I don't need? It is your comment that is a new level of lame. Agreed on the Touch Bar though.
Yep. TouchBar is annoying at best. I really wish they'd give us an option without it.
5 days makes you sick? Good grief. Return it. I see later you noted that your return window is January because of the holiday season so you're fine. But even if that wasn't the case - return it in the 14 day window and get another one a different color or slightly different spec or something, for another 14 days. Then swap that for the new one when they become available by then. And frankly, if you'd bought it from Apple and it came out 5 days after your return window expired, they'd let you swap it anyway. This - customer service - is one part of Apple that is frankly pretty amazing compared with most other companies.
No, they're all about the future. If they add more ports, I for one, hope it will be more TB3 ports. I think that's a processor limitation (PCI lanes) though, so it won't happen in the laptop till Intel changes that.
Ah. I see. So they should have taken more time to get both models ready (14 and 16) before releasing either of them? Right. Good call. Yep. Tim really screwed up there. /s
