Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Have you looked at the equivalent PC notebooks. Once you give them similar specs the prices get close to being the same. There are so many differences under the Apple hood that there is no way to do a 1 to 1 comparison.

here is what i found in Amazon

$2,199.99
ROG Zephyrus S Thin and Portable (2019) Gaming Laptop, 15.6” 240Hz G-SYNC FHD IPS, GeForce RTX 2070, i7-9750H, 16GB DDR4 RAM, 1TB PCIe Hyper Drive SSD, Per-Key RGB, Windows 10 Pro, GX502GW-XB76

$2,499.99
ASUS ROG Zephyrus S GX502GW Gaming Laptop (Intel i7-9750H, 32GB RAM, 1TB NVMe SSD, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 8GB, 15.6" FHD IPS-Level 240Hz G-SYNC, Windows 10 Pro)

$2,899.99
ROG Zephyrus S GX701 Gaming Laptop, 17.3” HDR 144Hz FHD IPS, GeForce RTX 2080, Intel Core i7-9750H Processor, 32GB DDR4, 1TB PCIe Nvme SSD Hyper Drive, Windows 10 Pro, GX701GX-XB78
 
  • Like
Reactions: Marekul
What do we know about these GPUs? I work mostly in audio, so don't need an amazing GPU, but if the 5500M with 8GB can play games well in bootcamp, I'd take the plunge.

Are you referring to Steam games on Mac? I didn't realize there were so many. When I do game, it's on Windows.

Hi, the 5500M is between a 1660 MaxQ and a 1660ti. That means it can game in HD at high settings at 60 FPS. In fact, with the 8GB option it might even just pip it in some GPU memory hungry games.

Yes, I mean Steam. If there is a Mac version of a game, I always play that so I don't have to reboot and worry about windows junk like virii.
I do have Kaspersky total installed on the bootcamp partition but am very happy I didn't activate it yet and am using the 30 day trial. Sadly I did activate windows 10 pro with the key I bought from ozgameshop.com and I don't know if Microsoft will be kind enough to allow me to remove it and reactivate it on the 16".

There are many Mac games on steam.. I also have quite a few App Store games..

The only bonus I can see about Catalina for gaming is Apple arcade, but otherwise I don't personally understand the big deal about 64 bit when it comes to gaming (in most cases) and that it wouldn't have killed apple to just let 32 bit apps still launch. I don't even think bit bridges can work in Catalina, so some of my audio plugins for my workstation audio projects will no longer be able to be bridged... I need to examine this further which is why I will stretch the return out to the last day.

If you go to steam now, on almost any Mac compatible game there is a warning to say "won't work on Catalina".. They advise using Bootcamp or not upgrading OS.. With the 16" there will be no choice. If there was a home-brew of Mojave with the Catalina drivers for the 5500M (the only real difference I can see driver wise that would be needed), I'd be thrilled, but I think at this stage I will just have to say goodbye to all my native Mac steam games.
It's quite nice to game in Mac sometimes.. bluetooth controllers are a cinch to connect, same with USB, I've never had to install drivers for anything.. I really like using it especially for emulation.
OpenEmu thankfully works in 64 bit, but I have no idea if redream or dolphin do, so I'll have to check into that ASAP.. Playing my dreamcast games in almost 4K at 60 FPS is an amazing experience and I get to use my SN30 pro plus rather than the terrible dreamcast controller. As a bonus, all my dreamcast discs can stay safe in their case and mint without fear of scratching. I feel the same way about my gamecube games of which I have over 100 (I only emulate games I already own hard copies of).. They are mint and not only can I keep them that way, I can play them in HD or higher on Dolphin. The only real reason I installed bootcamp was because the console I own the most games for is the PS2, and there is a top PS2 emu on windows.. All my steam games have been Mac compatible, BUT, I checked today and it seems all of them do have a windows version.. So.. I should be OK. I guess if I start spending time in Bootcamp for PCSX2, it's no big deal to have my steam library there instead. I really, REALLY dislike windows 10 though so far in the 7 days I have been mucking about with it. Gimme OSX any day instead as a system OS.

Anyway, I spoke to Apple just before, and he told me to definitely return and get the new one, and they'll even provide a free courier pickup from my location to return it. Very cool. I have till 5pm Wednesday 20th to call and arrange it, and I'll drag it out to then for sure to be as certain as I can be that I'll be happy with the new thermal performance, the 5500M, and Catalina :) It should only be a day or two before serious tests start cropping up on the web.
[automerge]1573694738[/automerge]
It depends on what you mean by "well".
I think it's a GTX 1650 class card - which isn't amazing, particularly with the screen resolution of the MBP

(thinking of gaming - of course you could play at lower Rez also)
The 5300M is 1650 class.
The 8GB 5500M is 1660 ti class. I would say the 4GB is around 1660 Max Q class.

That's by far the best GPU apple have ever offered in a notebook.

Upcoming gaming benchmarks will confirm but I'm pretty sure that's correct.

The Vega 20 itself is not far off a 1650.. the 5500M is a big change...

if the thermals hold up, this will be a great notebook which has a perfect compromise screen size/overall size/weight, and really the only place it loses out is against laptops with RTX series cards.. But still.. Those 2070 mobiles and stuff are overkill for the 1080P screens they are sold with.. it's just silly..
That said, if you want native res gaming on the 16", it will be at low to medium settings to sustain 60FPS, and that will be with the 8GB model.
I am more than certain that for HD gaming, which is what I was talking about, the 8GB 5500M will play all current games at 60 FPS at high or ultra settings.
[automerge]1573695067[/automerge]
I appreciate the info. I'm coming from a GTX 970 in my desktop, so looks like not even at that level. Oh well, more of an after thought. Probably still worth the upgrade for the additional 500 GB on the internal SSD
Incorrect.. The 5500M will beat your 970 and be more in line with 1060/1660ti which is faster than the 970. And there is no point spending that money and not getting the 8GB ram. As I said, for HD gaming, it will be fantastic. It will even exceed 60 FPS in many games and you will need to enable V sync (why apple doesn't provide free sync with their AMD graphics I do not understand) to help with tearing.

If you are dead set on retina native resolution gaming, you'll need to drop down your settings.. some prefer high res over detail.. I am sure low to medium detail and native res will still look good for certain games.. With older games like overwatch you'll be able to pump up to the 3K res and ultra settings :)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: HouseofG
The only bonus I can see about Catalina for gaming is Apple arcade, but otherwise I don't personally understand the big deal about 64 bit when it comes to gaming (in most cases) and that it wouldn't have killed apple to just let 32 bit apps still launch. I don't even think bit bridges can work in Catalina, so some of my audio plugins for my workstation audio projects will no longer be able to be bridged... I need to examine this further which is why I will stretch the return out to the last day.


Incorrect.. The 5500M will beat your 970 and be more in line with 1060/1660ti which is faster than the 970. And there is no point spending that money and not getting the 8GB ram. As I said, for HD gaming, it will be fantastic. It will even exceed 60 FPS in many games and you will need to enable V sync (why apple doesn't provide free sync with their and graphics I do not understand) to help with tearing.

If you are dead set on retina native resolution gaming, you'll need to drop down your settings.. some prefer high res over detail.. I am sure low to medium detail and native res will still look good for certain games.. With older games like overwatch you'll be able to pump up to the 3K res and ultra settings :)
Thanks for the info! I agree, $100 isn't much to spend to jump up from 4gb to 8gb--I just wasn't sure how useful it would be. Sounds like it's probably worth it. I'd rather have High settings than full-res, I think. I'm used to gaming at 1440 on a 27" screen.

Since you mentioned audio, which plugins do you use that are 32-bit only? I'm using tons of plugs and currently still on OS X 10.10. Hadn't considered that...

And how much RAM are you going with? I've never had any issues with 16GB, but I don't use many sample libraries or VST instruments--mostly plug-ins for mixing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TTOZ
Thanks for the info! I agree, $100 isn't much to spend to jump up from 4gb to 8gb--I just wasn't sure how useful it would be. Sounds like it's probably worth it. I'd rather have High settings than full-res, I think. I'm used to gaming at 1440 on a 27" screen.

Since you mentioned audio, which plugins do you use that are 32-bit only? I'm using tons of plugs and currently still on OS X 10.10. Hadn't considered that...

And how much RAM are you going with? I've never had any issues with 16GB, but I don't use many sample libraries or VST instruments--mostly plug-ins for mixing.

Hi.. Vanguard & Quadrasid are the two that mean the most to me of my 32 bit plugins..Both VST and AU versions.. I use "32 lives!" to run them.
Quadrasid is still the best thing since the Sid itself (and the ridiculously overpriced elektron sidstation) and sounds gorgeous when tweaked well. Vanguard is just because I have 50 songs that already use it.. The other option will be to bounce all those to audio before I return the 15" but there will be obviously no further realtime tweaking down the road.
Other 32 bit plugins I still use are Groovemachine from Imagline, Slayer 2 again from reFX, and some of the mDA freeware plugins. I just checked my steam library, and I have 98 games I would lose.. I will admit, 40 of those are the $1 Sega genesis titles and I could use OpenEmu to play those, but I just like being legit all the way if you know what I mean.
Ok you want to game at 1440P.. that's 2560x1440, correct?
If you want 60 FPS, expect medium settings with the 5500M on say 70% of games. 15% of games will need to be only or low to medium, and the other 15% will be able to game at 1440P at ultra (again, titles like overwatch). That's my guess from all the literature I have read and someone who confirmed it to me who is a bit of a guru with this stuff. He said it's a HUGE improvement over the Vega 20.
:)

EDIT : Sorry, I just realised you asked me about ram and VST plugins.. I can barely make do with 32 because I do orchestral mockups with tons of sampled instruments.. But disk streaming gets me the rest of the way.. If you are only using algorithmic rather than sampled based stuff, you can get away with 16GB.. but really, this is 2019.. Mojave is ram hungry, I am not sure about Catalina.. I think 16GB is the bare minimum to *scrape* by.. I would NOT like to be on 16Gb, honestly. Even when I am using a few safari tabs I have 17Gb available out of 32.. This means I'd be maxed out on the 16Gb model (as I was on my 2014 MacBook Pro).. I have to shut everything off when I load logic or Cubase to make or mix music.. I like having headroom. My iMac pro has 64Gb ram, and I have managed to max it out on a huge project.. so.. yeah.. it really depends on what sort of music you make. When I am making EDM for my own pleasure, I don't use much ram at all. When it's serious work, I do.
 
Last edited:
Was able to return my 15” MacBook Pro to Best Buy.

Now I have to wait for them to have the 16” in stock and make sure they don’t run out before I buy mine.
 
So I read through all the comments to this point and selected a few to consider in my reply, and my thoughts are...

What the **** is wrong with some of you people?!

As close as possible to spec for spec this thing is nearly US$1000 cheaper than a maxed out previous 15" model.

Before the significant price drops a few months ago, a maxed out 15" was about $1500 MORE expensive than this maxed out 16" (with double the ram and processor and much faster graphics).

People complaining about the entry level price...? Wtf? This specs in this thing are amazing for a laptop. Compare this with anything else comparable on the market from any other (decent) computer company and it's on a par.

Sure 2-3 years ago the performance of the MacBook Pros kinda sucked and it was hard to really call them Pro, but this is a portable Mac Pro. If you can't afford the price of this base model then what are you using it for that needs this kind of power? If you need a bigger screen than the 13" or the Air then get a refurb for a whole lot less with all the same warranty and so on as a new one. Otherwise get a 13". What's the problem??

This is (almost) the Pro MBP that we've all been asking for. (Nearly) every complaint has been addressed:
- performance (everywhere)
- better cooling/thermal management
- keyboard (scissor, inverted T, physical esc key)
- higher max specs
- better pricing
- etc.

Ports? Get over it and move on. The old ports aren't coming back, and thank goodness for that. TB3+ and USB-C is the future. Apple changed the above things because they were sorely needed improvements that EVERYONE wanted. The ports? Nope. Most pro users don't want the old ports and appreciate the performance, and near infinite options that TB3 brings. Now we have choice, that we didn't have before. I've said before, if Apple didn't push these envelopes, then we'd still be using DBA, SCSI (terminators? ugh), and floppy drives.

If you want Magsafe, get any of these: https://www.google.com/search?q=USB-C+magsafe -- you have choice!! There's countless options. If none of those suit your needs, then you're impossible to please.

If you really need USB-A, HDMI, SD cards, Ethernet, etc. then get any of these: https://www.hypershop.com/collections/usb-c-hubs/ -- again, choice!! One (or even two) of those hubs plus the Mac is still significantly less to carry around than if Apple had to increase the size of the machine to include all those ports back inside it - making it likely similar to the 2015 model in size and weight. No thanks!! At least some of us Pro users do NOT want that.

Aside from which, how to please everyone? There are countless different port combinations that no matter what combination Apple chose to build in, couldn't possibly please everyone. Why should I have a laptop that includes an SD slot instead of more of something else when I NEVER use SD. And the same goes for any of the other ports and combinations. No. One all powerful port that provides near infinite choices that we never had before... That's the future. If you really want to stay in the past then buy a refurb 2015 machine and stay in 2015. Otherwise come into 2019+ and stop complaining.

Soldered RAM and Storage? Again, the right choice. Soldering it makes for much fewer points of failure, and makes more space for better cooling. The two complaints people have about this soldering are:
  1. Something goes wrong you have to replace the entire logic board instead of just a piece. Ok. Why is that a problem? Buy AppleCare, and then it's Apple's problem not yours - for three years.
  2. Can't upgrade. Wrong. Buy what you need. What are you possibly doing that needs more RAM or storage (and more of nothing else) later than you need now? When you're ready to upgrade, sell the old one and buy a new one. I've been doing that for as long as I've owned Apple products, and it's no more expensive and keeps me up to date with everything, not just RAM and storage.
Each time I've mentioned these two before, people say "what if I want it for more than three years?". Then you need to think about your needs. What are you doing NOW that needs the kind of power in one of these, that won't need the same relative power in 3+years (ie. the kind of power that will be available in 3+ years)? Or... what were you doing 3+ years ago that needed the power of a brand new MBP then that doesn't need the power of a brand new MBP now? If in 2022 you don't need the power that you'll get in a new 2022 model, then you don't need the power that's in this one now.

So instead, NOW buy a 2 year old one on the refurb store for half the price of one of these, since that's the power you need now, and then upgrade that to one of these (which will be 2 years old on the refurb store then and half the price it is now, at that point).

THAT's how you UPGRADE your Mac. This is how things work now - and it's how it should work - and it's not going back. Educate yourself and understand the improvements that come with soldering these in. And educate yourself on the economics of upgrading this way instead of piece by piece in an otherwise aging machine. Everything is integrated now, and that gets better results. This is the future, and I for one don't want them to go back, and lose those improvements.

WiFi6? What do you want Apple to do? Correct me if I'm wrong on this one but as I understand it this is Intel's limitation not Apple's. Apple has put the best processors readily available into these machines and those processors are the limitation. What more do you want (from Apple), assuming I haven't got this one wrong?

720p Camera? The higher res ones just don't physically fit, so again what are they supposed to do?

All that said, I said "(Nearly) every complaint...". This isn't quite perfect. The TouchBar still sucks and not making it optional is disappointing. But... What else?!

You people who are STILL complaining after THIS upgrade... you just don't get it. Why don't you put your efforts into educating yourself and becoming a better person (which will in turn improve your computer purchases and use) instead of sitting around whining?


Do you have any idea what's actually in this when it's fully loaded? What's the problem?

And at the other end I think you don't understand what "entry level" means. It's a pro machine, not entry level. The "entry level" mac laptop is US$1099 or UK£1099 (MacBook Air). And for what it is, it's pretty amazing too.


Exactly. Except maybe this step in the right direction is more than tiny...? lol.


From all accounts so far (including my own use), Catalina appears to be one of the most stable and safe releases in years. The only real problem is for anyone still relying on any 32-bit apps. If that's the case though, a virtual machine is a great solution. (My employer is still using 8 year old FileMaker 11 [current version is 18]. I'm running it in a Parallels virtual machine running Yosemite. But I needed that in every macOS since El Capitan anyway). I've found Catalina to be very solid.


Yep. Sigh.


Why "don't say [you] to buy dongles"? Buy dongles. Although no, don't buy a bunch of dongles. Buy one tiny portable hub, of which there are countless choices to choose from (see my link above), plus any of the USB-C Mag-Safe solutions I linked above. What's the problem?

I agree with you on the TouchBar though.


Actually it's less. Agreed, good show.


1 of these maxed out is less than the base Mac Pro and not far off similar performance I expect - certainly comparable with the iMac Pro. So one of these plus a decent monitor and you don't need the iMac at all, surely?


Yep.


Why? It's a pointless waste of graphics performance and battery life. Normal people with perfectly good vision will see absolutely no difference. If anything I just wish they'd make it brighter (more nits).


Exactly.


Umm... yeah. As someone else said, value isn't about price, it's about what you get for it. Brand new BMW with no compromises for $2399? That would be tremendous value. A dinner spoon for $2399, not so much. The stuff that's in this Mac for $2399 - perhaps not tremendous, but certainly very good value.


It's not about how many pixels it's about ppi. All Mac displays are now in the 218-226ppi range, and that's because it's the least power hungry etc. ppi that, for all but a few very special people, you can't see the pixels no matter what resolution you set the dispay to. Which also means all but a few very special people can't see the difference between 2x or 1.5x or any other x. If you can, then you're either very special, or possibly deluded (which I suppose is another form of special anyway). ;)

It's called resolution independence. Any physically higher ppi is a pointless waste of battery life and graphics card/chip power.

Mind you, If you don't like Apple's resolution independence implementation, perhaps you should try Windows' train wreck of an implementation and get back to us.


Yep. Pretty sweet.


Exactly. I've been clamoring for 64GB and at least 6TB since before the 2016 models came out. I'm one of those cases. I got the maxed out 2017 (quad core, 16GB, 2TB) as soon as it arrived, until I swapped it for the maxed out 2019 15" a few months ago (couldn't wait). That doubled those specs at least (8-core, 32GB, 4TB). I will still upgrade to this pretty soon, and I'll max it out too (to double the RAM and storage again - 64GB, 8TB). And I'll use all of it, and what I use it for will pay for it pretty quickly. That's what this stuff is for. Not web browsing and email. Lol.


Yeah. That's a bummer. But physical escape key at least. Thank goodness.


Hmm... ok. And so how much does that 801.11ax and LPDDR4 RAM cost? How "Cheapskate" are Apple being here really? You really think it's a $ thing? Sigh...
Does any other laptop on the market have more than 16GB of LPDDR4 RAM? From everything I'm reading Coffee Lake (these 9th Gen chips) doesn't support it. Likewise, from everything I can find, the 802.11ax is an Intel limitation not Apple. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this one. But I'm pretty sure this isn't a "Cheapskate" thing. Jeez.


Which is still bigger and heavier than this new 16" plus one or even two of these: https://www.hypershop.com/collections/usb-c-hubs/ . But hey, if the 2012 is the best choice for you, good for you.


My employer. And if I was still self employed like I used to be, I would. And so would other people for whom the power and versatility it provides helps them do their jobs which makes them much more money than that $6K in the time they'll own it. Problem?


Umm... huh? Buy what you need. What do you want more later for that you don't want it for now?


Huh? What's in this that isn't good value?


Is Wifi6 possible in these? Isn't that an Intel Coffee Lake limitation? Correct me if I'm wrong.


What do you want it for? As I said above it's a pointless waste of graphics processing power and battery life.


Taking the smeg. Lol. If not for the "AUD" reference, that shows you're an Aussie. I'm in the US now, but born and bred in Australia. Australian Mac prices have always been inflated, since the birth of Apple. But so is everything else. Cars (except the Aussie Holdens and Fords), every computer brand, almost anything from almost anywhere in the world other than Australia is more expensive in Australia.

But these prices are comparable to the past. I spent A$9-10K on a Mac laptop more than once in the past. That's often been Apple's maxed out price in AUD. "No laptop is worth that"...? Depends what you're using it for. Sure it's not worth it to you, but how can you speak for everyone?

Relative specs of MacBooks and iBooks. Lol. Ok. If you say so.


This just makes no sense.


Still no extension cord... really? Most of us have countless spares of these lying around. Why should they include it so I can get yet another one I don't need? It is your comment that is a new level of lame. Agreed on the Touch Bar though.


Yep. TouchBar is annoying at best. I really wish they'd give us an option without it.


5 days makes you sick? Good grief. Return it. I see later you noted that your return window is January because of the holiday season so you're fine. But even if that wasn't the case - return it in the 14 day window and get another one a different color or slightly different spec or something, for another 14 days. Then swap that for the new one when they become available by then. And frankly, if you'd bought it from Apple and it came out 5 days after your return window expired, they'd let you swap it anyway. This - customer service - is one part of Apple that is frankly pretty amazing compared with most other companies.


No, they're all about the future. If they add more ports, I for one, hope it will be more TB3 ports. I think that's a processor limitation (PCI lanes) though, so it won't happen in the laptop till Intel changes that.


Ah. I see. So they should have taken more time to get both models ready (14 and 16) before releasing either of them? Right. Good call. Yep. Tim really screwed up there. /s


Do you really asked me what is the problem with the dongles ???
- I don’t know about you, but I use Air and pro ( before 2016 of course) and if I follow your suggestion then I should buy at least 4 ports thing and to put it in every bag which I use - very comfortable :)))))
- last time when I checked the port thing didn’t have MagSafe included

I can continue, but it doesn’t matter....after “we have a courage to remove the audio jack” ( the top idiotic explanation in the history of IT companies ) I understood that something wrong happened to my ex-favourite company, so I don’t expect them to release a really useful laptop....
[automerge]1573710635[/automerge]
But the world doesn't REVOLVE around you we have to move to the future at some point.
Should we still be using PS2 keyboards because "some others still want to"
 
Last edited:
EXACTLY what everyone has been asking for...and yet some will still complain
Nope, they still haven't gotten rid of the out of date headphone jack :D
[automerge]1573710824[/automerge]
Hey so I was wondering about the physical size compared to the last one so looked it up - for anyone else wondering:

MBP 16":
Height 1.62 cm (0.64 inches)
Width 35.79 cm (14.09 inches)
Depth 24.59 cm (9.68 inches)
Weight 2.0 kg (4.3 pounds)

MBP 15":
Height: 1.55 cm (0.61 inches)
Width: 34.93 cm (13.75 inches)
Depth: 24.07 cm (9.48 inches)
Weight: 1.83 kg (4.02 pounds)
Yep, it's THICKER!!!!!!!
 
Here's what we're happy about: for the past few years, Apple (wrt Mac) has been running - running - headlong in the wrong direction ("let's strip off everything! let's make it thinner! nothing else matters!"). Now they've stopped running, and they've started walking back in this direction. It's not "hurrah! everything is perfect now!", but at least we're no longer losing ground. If my old MBP breaks, they now sell a MBP with a keyboard that's not horrible, so I feel less at-risk now. Baby steps. It's a good thing.
IT is just Sad that Apple users which always expected the latest and greatest in design and innovation, now they are suddenly ok with Baby steps? After waiting 4 years of bad design and revisions, you are ok with just baby steps?
It is Sad that Apple that used to be a leader, now not only is trailing, but seems that is ok to just fix past bad designs with not so much innovation. If you really look at the Macbook, the only thing they did is internal fixes.
We still have no mag-safe, still no user upgradable RAM and all soldered components, still old bad Touchbar.
It truly seems that Apple forgot how to innovate.
 
Last edited:
Upgrading to 32GB from 16GB costs $400, where a set of 2x16GB DDR4 SODIMMs currently sells for $100 total.
Yeah it's crazy. Same with SSDs. I used to be able to afford brand new MBPs, because I could buy the lowest spec machine, and then instantly go out and buy aftermarket RAM and HD/SSD and upgrade it to what I needed, and then in a couple of years when I needed more, I would just go and buy the parts and upgrade it again. And before anyone asks, nope, I never needed to upgrade the CPU, I merely write software for a living, no crazy CPU power needed for that. So now I still have my 2015 15", which I bought second hand with already maxed out 16GB RAM (all I need for now, but will need 32 sooner or later) and 512GB, which I've since upgraded to 1TB, and will likely max it out with 2TB at some point. After that, I guess I will be scouring around for second hand 16" machines with larger RAM/SSD specs. But if Apple didn't charge absolute rip offs for the RAM/SSD in the first place, I'd be still buying new laptops from them.
 
Or you can get a $1000 laptop from Dell with a 4k screen.

Yeah, yeah. I don't want a windows laptop, or a dell either, I'm just pointing out at this point it's getting ridiculous that they don't offer a 4k screen that even low and mid range laptops are getting from other companies.

And no, it's not just a feature whine. When you're editing photos if you're not doing 1:1 pixels the photo gets blurry, so you're stuck in the old 1440 pixel sized desktop (which they did scale up to 2880), but the desktop elements are the same size, so it's not more productive.

The old 17" macbook had 1920x1200 resolution, or the desktop space equivalent of 3840x2400 at 144dpi.

That's why professionals miss it.


You’re trying to tell me that you can see the difference between 2880 and 3840 and you seriously want to argue that the old 1920 17” is better than the 2880 because 1:1?

Or did I miss something there?
[automerge]1573714778[/automerge]
Not exactly.

We have been asking for no Touchbar, mag-safe, user upgradable RAM and ssd and mor ports.
I do not see anything even close to that.
[automerge]1573683854[/automerge]

Although there are some improvements, After 4 years doing tiny steps in the right direction is not enough.
Apple used to be the leader and now we suppose to be happy be "Tiny steps"....??

We still
Have the same useless touchbar.
No MAG-SAFE
No user upgradable RAM and SSD
Still soldered components that makes it a disposable appliance?
Still limited to 4 ports. Actually 3 if you use one to plug power.

Please pay attention.

It has a MagSafe option (linked to in my earlier post).

User upgradeable RAM and SSD and any ports other than TB3 are a waste of space and resources when the alternatives are better.

There are new ways of doing things that are more effective than the old ways. Apple doesn’t make machines for the old ways of doing things. Never has. Move with it or choose another vendor.
 
Last edited:
Very well said - it'd the pivot to *listening* to customers instead of *telling* them.

Now if they'd just do it with the software too...but maybe that's next year

You think Steve ever listened to customers?
[automerge]1573715874[/automerge]
here is what i found in Amazon

$2,199.99
ROG Zephyrus S Thin and Portable (2019) Gaming Laptop, 15.6” 240Hz G-SYNC FHD IPS, GeForce RTX 2070, i7-9750H, 16GB DDR4 RAM, 1TB PCIe Hyper Drive SSD, Per-Key RGB, Windows 10 Pro, GX502GW-XB76

$2,499.99
ASUS ROG Zephyrus S GX502GW Gaming Laptop (Intel i7-9750H, 32GB RAM, 1TB NVMe SSD, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 8GB, 15.6" FHD IPS-Level 240Hz G-SYNC, Windows 10 Pro)

$2,899.99
ROG Zephyrus S GX701 Gaming Laptop, 17.3” HDR 144Hz FHD IPS, GeForce RTX 2080, Intel Core i7-9750H Processor, 32GB DDR4, 1TB PCIe Nvme SSD Hyper Drive, Windows 10 Pro, GX701GX-XB78

Nice. But All FHD. No comparison there. How much are these specced with a high res display? Plus, what is their brightness? Battery life?
 
Last edited:
Sorry, but I just have to chuckle at all the folks who a month or two ago bought the 2019 15-incher, with the flawed keyboard, way worse thermal management ... absolutely convinced this one wouldn't come out anytime soon, or be way too expensive.

Now you're kinda stuck with one of the laptops that is part of what will arguably be remembered as one of the worst series of laptop designs Apple ever made.

Yeah...it's always hilarious to mock people when they make expensive, irreversible mistakes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Marekul and TTOZ
IT is just Sad that Apple users which always expected the latest and greatest in design and innovation, now they are suddenly ok with Baby steps? After waiting 4 years of bad design and revisions, you are ok with just baby steps?
It is Sad that Apple that used to be a leader, now not only is trailing, but seems that is ok to just fix past bad designs with not so much innovation. If you really look at the Macbook, the only thing they did is internal fixes.
We still have no mag-safe, still no user upgradable RAM and all soldered components, still old bad Touchbar.
It truly seems that Apple forgot how to innovate.

The fact that you think going BACK to built-in mag-safe, and user upgradeable components is what qualifies as “innovation” is pretty funny.

Innovation means coming up with good new stuff not going back to old stuff.

The issue here isn’t innovation. It’s whether the new stuff is good or not.
 
I think this machine is perfect and am now waiting for the 13/14-inch version.
 
For anyone interested..

Just watched a vid with a quad core Ryzen notebook and Far cry 5 at high settings on a 5500M hitting 67 FPS average. On Ultra it was 57 (absolutely playable and better than xbox one or PS4). I am certain an 8 core Intel CPU with the 8GB 5500M will be able to be over 60 FPS for sure.. that's a pretty demanding game.. As I said it will be fine for HD gaming...I am certain the cpu is the bottleneck here.. although I will admit, the same cpu with 1660 TI got 70 FPS on high settings.. so... a 5% improvement. That said, the 5500M is brand new, let's let the drivers mature a bit.
I myself am also going to get a 1440P monitor for it as the poster above, both as an audio app and gaming monitor.. I expect to be able to play 60 FPS at medium settings on all games in bootcamp.
If a 5700M comes out, the mobile version of the 5700XT, I am sure apple will adopt it in a mid cycle refresh.
All I am saying is, the gap is closing. Apple will never offer a laptop with 2060/2070 levels of gaming performance.. however, we finally have a laptop that CAN game in HD.. I think this is the first apple laptop that can do so, as the Vega 20 could not do 60 FPS on almost any game at high settings in HD.
It's also the only laptop in the world with 4 thunderbolt ports, and from what I am reading and watching, has the best inbuilt speakers and mic of any laptop, period.

When you start to configure brand name competitors with 32Gb ram, a 2TB SSD and an 8 core processor,. the price difference is not all that big.. But we have the advantage that we can choose OS X or windows with a simple key press at startup.

I am starting to think this might be the very best laptop currently on the market, as an "overall everything" package. Just check out an MSI 4K laptop with 8 core, 32Gb ram and 2TB SSD.. they are 6 grand AUD for the one with 1 TB ssd.. the apple is actually cheaper here!

When you configure competitors with 4TB SSD and 64Gb ram, windows only laptops are more expensive.

Over here in AU.. 64GB ram, 2.4ghz 8 core, 4TB SSD and 8GB 5500M = 6799 AUD full RRP.
I can find windows laptops with 64Gb ram but never 4TB SSD, and they are 7K..
So.. apple is actually reasonably priced, seriously.

Yes, there are tons of windows laptops around with 16GB ram, 512 SSD, 1660TI and a 9750H six core that are ridiculously inexpensive.. But when you want high end.. apple is on par.

The other thing.. Apple is the only one that seems to offer real all metal construction. They don't bend or warp.. One has to remember that these cheaper windows boxes are made with well, cheap plastic.. it all counts and depends what you want if for..

If you want a high performance laptop that will last for years, I think apple is the way to go.
My 2014 2.8ghz quad core is still like brand new, and it has been hammered at 80% cpu day after day with Logic using all 8 threads to the max. Has never missed a beat. That was the Haswell MacBook Pro that I replaced but haven't sold yet. In fact I might just keep it as a dedicated emulation box/bootcamp. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: JosepPont
The fact that you think going BACK to built-in mag-safe, and user upgradeable components is what qualifies as “innovation” is pretty funny.

Innovation means coming up with good new stuff not going back to old stuff.

The issue here isn’t innovation. It’s whether the new stuff is good or not.

User upgradable would make a much better design and not create disposable appliances.

Funny is "Innovation coming up with good new stuff and not going back to old"???
Apple went actually back to an old keyboard design because the butterfly was a disaster.
How is "good" killing one of the best features Apple ever created (the mag-safe).
How is "good" having all soldered components?

So according to your own comments Apple is NOT innovating....
 
the largest battery capacity ever in a MacBook Pro

What is the battery capacity in mAh? The 2015 ones had 8000+ mAh. Don't MacBook Pros use 15v when using its battery? That along with 100w equates to about 6500mAh which is significantly less than the 2015 15 inch laptops.
 
Apple's computers were always expensive. 5769 are a bit much, but you are talking about 64GB of RAM, 8TB of SSD, and maxed GPU. Even if you need maxed GPU, very very very few people need 64GB of RAM and 8TB of SSD. Perhaps lower the spec of the machine and you could get it at a lower price close to what you could afford and need.
Don't get me wrong, I can't afford even the base model and I am stuck with a 2012 Mac Mini, but such is life.

Yeah Apple Computer were always expensive, but you could always go with base model and upgrade RAM and HD.
with ram and ssd soldered onto the motherboard you loose the ability to upgrade and repair.cost of this does not show in initial purchase price, but 3 years down the road when your 2011 still works fine but your 2016 is riddled with issues and had second keyboard replacement and the Apple care runs out... you realize you should have 3x the price to get real cost compared to old macs.
 
Relative specs of MacBooks and iBooks. Lol. Ok. If you say so.

I do say so. Laptops with integrated graphics cards are not "pro". Period! Not at the price Apple is charging. If I want integrated intel graphics garbage I would buy a nuk. I don't want that in my "pro" machines unless it also comes with a discrete graphics card. Hell, I still remember Steve Jobs making a song and dance how the entry-level Mac Mini and iBooks had a discrete graphics card and NOT integrated graphics like their competitors' entry-level machines. That was 10+ years ago now!

Now, none of the consumer line up has discrete graphics in their entry models, or worse most dont have an option at all. The same thing applies for their "pro" line, and the ones we get are mid-range graphics cards at that. It is a fraud by way of Apple thinking its users are ignorant of hardware outside of its lineup. Which may well be the case, given how many people think this is some kind of amazing deal! The $1000 price drop is not an amazing deal, but Apple realising their margins are extortionate and they are losing customers in their computers divisions.

You can only increase the prices, without it reflecting that price in hardware for so long until people start noticing that delta.
 
Last edited:
Apple’s been soldering RAM for years. It means you can’t upgrade after the purchase, I believe there ARE benefits to non-socket RAM.
No there are zero benefits for the end customer. In the contrary. From engineering and customer perspective it is the dumbest thing you could do.
It makes only sense for Apple to decrease device lifespan, and force customers to upgrade on purchase, and pay apples very special RAM and SSD prices.
 
Last edited:
Since I don't want to run Catalina just yet, I'm going to hold off. I always upgrade my OS as soon as possible and have for over 20 years, but not with Catalina. Maybe in 6 months. For those complaining about pricing - and I personally don't need a laptop with an 8TB boot drive, but perhaps some do, it's completely in line with Apple's historical pricing on high end machines for decades. Go back and look it up before you start to whine.

10.15 was flawed but 10.15.1 has been very stable so far on my 2014 MBP 13".
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.