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There are no Ice Lake 45w chips - unless you want to go backwards to a 28w quad-core with relatively low clock speeds (a lot of the 28w is GPU), you're stuck with 14nm++++ in the MBP 15" or 16" (as is every user of high-end 15"+ notebooks from any vendor). Not only that, but the next generation at 45w (mid-2020) is Comet Lake (14nm+++++), and it's even possible that the mid-2021 generation will be Rocket Lake (14nm++++++). Desktop chips aren't expected to see 10nm until late 2021 or early 2022, since they have to go through both Comet Lake and Rocket Lake first, and Comet Lake is clearly on the roadmap for the 45w notebook chips with Rocket Lake possible.

As for the price (it's not going to start anywhere near $8k by the way - under $3500 for a nicely configured model (something like i9/16/1TB/Vega 20) - extra $200 for 32 GB RAM), all the 15" slim workstation notebooks can get very expensive with lots of RAM and storage.

Many of the others do start under $2000, because they're available with quad-core i5s, or with 1920x1080 screens, or with 8 GB of RAM. Getting the latest HP zBook Studio up to the specs the upper-end MBP can reach is around $6000 with 4 TB of storage and 32 GB of RAM (same i9-9980HK as the Mac, NVidia Quadro P2000 that is substantially slower than the Vega 20). It can have 64 GB of RAM, and that's $6600. The Lenovo P1 is about $500-$1000 more expensive in the same configuration (also goes to 64 GB of RAM). Both HP and Lenovo offer dual SSD slots, but the only way to 4 TB is 2x2TB, so both slots are full.

The best deal is the Dell Precision 5540, which reaches about $4300, but with only 2 TB of fast SSD - the only further expansion option is SATA, and Dell only offers spinning drives for that slot, although a user could put in a SATA SSD themselves. It's almost exactly the same price as the 15" MacBook Pro, but without the expensive option to go to 4 TB.

No matter what configuration you choose, if they can reach a comparable configuration, the Mac will be cheaper than a Lenovo P1, a little cheaper than a ZBook Studio, and within $100-$200 of a Dell 5540. You can get the others cheaper, but only by omitting things that are standard on the Mac.

Don't compare the MacBook Pro to 6-8 lb gaming machines with cheap displays - they can have the same CPU and comparable or better GPUs for less money - but they aren't anywhere near as usable outside of games. The Razer Blade is a different story, but that's well into the MBP 15" price range, and has lousy storage options - 512GB is the top option - you can have a GeForce RTX 2080 and a 4K OLED (!!!) screen, but you get a 512GB SSD with that... Their new Studio models will probably fix that, but expect to pay...

Where Apple can be criticized on price isn't that their high-end configurations are too expensive - they're close to parity with Dell (with one extra odd option), slightly cheaper than HP and substantially cheaper than Lenovo. They offer different tradeoffs than Razer, but comparable pricing. It's that they offer no entry to a notebook with a screen larger than 13" under $2299. Anyone else will sell you an upper-midrange 15" notebook with either a 6-core CPU but integrated graphics or a quad-core with a low-end discrete GPU (and a decent screen) in the $1500-$2000 range.

I suspect Apple's response to this problem (if they're not simply blind to it) will be to release a 15" MacBook Air (or maybe they'll call it a 15" MacBook). Even thinner and lighter than the Pro (3-3.5 lbs), 28W Ice Lake quad-core with decent integrated GPU, starts at $1999 (maybe they'll give up some integrated GPU performance and use a 15-25 W Ice Lake CPU in a $1699-$1799 model). Base configuration is something like 16/256 if it's $1999, maybe 8/256 at $1699.

When that comes out, the 15" Pro goes away, and the base 16" Pro is something like $2499 or $2599. The 16" Pro this fall is not going to be that base model - it's going to be a generously configured ~$3299 and up model, with the 15" Pro remaining as the option below that until next Spring/Summer. The 16" will probably top out around $6000 (9980HK/64GB/4TB/Vega 20 (or better)) - unless they offer an 8TB storage option, which could create the mythical $8K notebook - but it would be something like a $5200 notebook maxed out in every way except storage (9980HK/64GB/2TB/Vega 20) with a $2800 SSD!

you wrote the post I can never be bothered writing.
Have a look at the HP Zbook 15 G6 prices with the new Quadro RTX GPU. Super pricey.
The Lenovo P1 is better priced however than an equivelant 15" MBP i9 32gb 1tb Vega 20. An equivalent spec here [I7 6 core not i9 but way better GPU] is $900 less.
 
I'm curios, why 16 when there is already a 15.6?

Why not go to 17 if its aim is for content creators? 17" + 1440p + OLED + 144Hz

Well, one possibility is a 15" frame with thin bezel. In that case what will happen to 15 line up?
 
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I'm curios, why 16 when there is already a 15.6?

Why not go to 17 if its aim is for content creators? 17" + 1440p + OLED + 144Hz


Well, one possibility is a 15" frame with thin bezel. In that case what will happen to 15 line up?
 
Why should the price increase?

1- Because they are putting a faster processor?
2- Because they are fixing a pathetic failed 4 th generation keyboard?
3- Because they are failing to do a proper cooling enclosure?
4- Because of the lack of ports?

RAM, SSD and components pricing actually DROP with time.
Still Apple rip off customers but charging obscene prices for both RAM and SSD upgrade pricing.
Even with the recent Apple price drop of SSD upgrade pricing.

Other laptops that have way better features, cost $1000 less than the current Macbooks Pro.
[doublepost=1565166415][/doublepost]Starting price will be $3000 for 256 gb, 8gb ram model. $3500 for a model with 512gb and 16gb ram upgrades. They will release a new proprietary port so you will need a dongle to connect your usb c dongle. The dongle costs $199 exclusively available at Apple stores.
 
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you wrote the post I can never be bothered writing.
Have a look at the HP Zbook 15 G6 prices with the new Quadro RTX GPU. Super pricey.
The Lenovo P1 is better priced however than an equivelant 15" MBP i9 32gb 1tb Vega 20. An equivalent spec here [I7 6 core not i9 but way better GPU] is $900 less.

My Asus ROG Zephyrus S GX502GW is around the same price with MBP 15" 256GB version.
With this laptop I already have:
- 32GB RAM (upgraded from 16GB for dual channel)
- Intel i7 9th Gen (this is not under-volted but not overclockable)
- RTX 2070 (not the MAX-Q which has the reduced clock speed)
- 1 TB NVME SSD
- thin bezel 15.6" 144Hz 3ms response time screen
- with Solid Magnesium Alloy casing
- no thermal throttling - under Turbo mode it can stay at 3.8ghz to 4.ghz at the expense of a noisy fan :)

At first I was thinking of getting the Macbook Pro 15" and I am very happy I choose this one :) For the price its perfect. But of course it has its short coming like no THunderbolt 3 and SDCard. The weight is 2kg and the power brick is almost a kg and its HUGE - it needs 230Watts to be able to reach its full potential. Although you can charge it through its USB-C port but only 65Watts. Thats the problem with USB-C because it is limited to 100watts.
 
I'm curios, why 16 when there is already a 15.6?

Why not go to 17 if its aim is for content creators? 17" + 1440p + OLED + 144Hz


Well, one possibility is a 15" frame with thin bezel. In that case what will happen to 15 line up?
i told you before..based on scaling and resolution , its not 16" but around 16.4"
 
Too bad for no 45w icelake since it supports LPDDR4 so better battery life and also almost 50% boost in iGPU...

Why asking for something not released yet. Multicore performance of low power Ice Lake wont match 8 core of older high power generation for sure.
MBP has dedicated graphic so build in one is not deal breaker. Would be nice but...
I wonder if it'll be an event or if they will announce it by just updating the website.

For sure not. My bet is event where availability of Mac Pro will be announced. Make sense Pro + Pro. And maybe new iPads Pro as well.
 
i told you before..based on scaling and resolution , its not 16" but around 16.4"
Okay.
But is it justifiable? I mean, a 1 inch bump for a much expensive price tag? I still think 17" on a thin bezel should be considered an upgrade from 15.6 not 16.4.
 
Okay.
But is it justifiable? I mean, a 1 inch bump for a much expensive price tag? I still think 17" on a thin bezel should be considered an upgrade from 15.6 not 16.4.

How would you put 17" screen in current 15" MBP chassis? There will be the same chassis. Making extra one would shot price into sky. So I guess it is compromise from Apple because users asked for 17".
 
MBP has dedicated graphic so build in one is not deal breaker. Would be nice but...
Since the resolution is higher...a better iGPU for macOS Catalina UI would be nice...remember first 15" retina MBP...so doesnt matter the dGPU in catalina UI
[doublepost=1565169997][/doublepost]
Okay.
But is it justifiable? I mean, a 1 inch bump for a much expensive price tag? I still think 17" on a thin bezel should be considered an upgrade from 15.6 not 16.4.
we dont know yet the price tag....maybe it will be 2499$ starting with 512 ssd, 16 gb ram, 6C , maybe the first mac with faceID, proper keyboard and proper thermals..
 
The only real reason for this is to get lower priced 3rd party upgrades.

I haven't wanted or needed to open up my computer since 2012 and yes I am a 'pro' who used to build their own computers.
If Apple went down this route and changed their designs in such a way that it

1. allowed ram and ssd upgrades
2. fully utilised CPU via better cooling

then I will be buying a PC workstation with an Nvidia GPU in it. All other benefits would have gone out the window - ie a super portable near workstation laptop, which the MBP currently is.

You buy desktops for power and laptops for portability. Trying to have both in a laptop either means overheating / lack of portability or some other compromise.


Go get The Macbook pro 15inch/13inch or Macbook Air.
The only real reason for this is to get lower priced 3rd party upgrades.

I haven't wanted or needed to open up my computer since 2012 and yes I am a 'pro' who used to build their own computers.
If Apple went down this route and changed their designs in such a way that it

1. allowed ram and ssd upgrades
2. fully utilised CPU via better cooling

then I will be buying a PC workstation with an Nvidia GPU in it. All other benefits would have gone out the window - ie a super portable near workstation laptop, which the MBP currently is.

You buy desktops for power and laptops for portability. Trying to have both in a laptop either means overheating / lack of portability or some other compromise.

Then I would suggest you to get the Macbook Air as it's a laptop that is used by people who favor portability over power.
I think personally if you at least offer the ability to uppgrade SSD(by using certified third part products similar to what the mac pro 2019 offers.).
Also I think adding SSD(and RAM uppgrades if possible) solidifies the distinction between the Macbook Air(towards portability) and the Pro(Power and customization).
 
If they get rid of that underutilized half-baked touch bar they can lower the price by $300.

I miss the days when you could buy a new 15.4 MBP for $1999.

Speak for yourself, I use it constantly. Also there are third party tools like Better touch tool that make it fantastic and editable across apps.

For a colour picker alone. I’d pay the 300
[doublepost=1565171216][/doublepost]
If this doesn’t have a refresh rate of 144hz it is trash computer. I’m a speed runner so I am a true professional and so far this doesn’t sound professional

Parody Forum accounts. Is that a thing now?
 
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But is it justifiable? I mean, a 1 inch bump for a much expensive price tag? I still think 17" on a thin bezel should be considered an upgrade from 15.6 not 16.4.

We don't know the details yet. There are 4 possibilities:

(1) This is a new addition to the MacBook range intended to stand above the 15" - some sort of MacBookMoreProerThanPro - in which case, I'd agree with you - it would need more than a slightly bigger screen to distinguish it. Maybe - but it sounds too much like the revenge of the return of the bride of the 17" MBP to be the most likely scenario.

(2) This is a straight replacement for the 15" at similar prices, won't be significantly bigger (so no 17"). The 15" will be discontinued. The price rumours are just that (the retail price is the least likely thing to leak) and/or refer to an optional higher-spec configuration.

(4) Same as (2) except that the people who bought you "$1000 Display Stand or $200 VESA mount" are going to use this as an opportunity for a substantial price hike so they can go on making rising revenues on flat sales and keep Wall St happy for the next quarter.

(3) Mix of (1)+(2): the i7/Radeon Pro 15" will continue, the i9/Vega models will be dropped and replaced by the 16" (which will have to be slightly thicker if it is to accommodate a scissor keyboard and may have re-designed thermals). That scenario actually allows most of the rumours (16", higher price, 8-core, 15" discontinued) to be at least partially true.
 
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Okay.
But is it justifiable? I mean, a 1 inch bump for a much expensive price tag? I still think 17" on a thin bezel should be considered an upgrade from 15.6 not 16.4.

You are quibbling about 1cm extra Top and side to create a overall much bigger laptop in volume and weight. Or you keep the same and get bonus screen res.

Hell I wan’t a 19” laptop.
 
I'm far more interested in a 14" upgrade to the 13" with same size and weight but less bezels. Throw in 120hz display and that would be heaven.
 
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I'm far more interested in a 14" upgrade to the 13" with same size and weight but less bezels. Throw in 120hz display and that would be heaven.
yes, i think Apple missed the opportunity to do something new...i mean instead of releasing the big one but with the last gen cpu, Apple could made the first redesign with the smaller one, an 14" where we already have the new Icelake cpu 15W and 25W with LPddr4 , double the igpu performance and so on...
This should be the first redesign macbook for this fall...not the 16"
 
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I'm far more interested in a 14" upgrade to the 13" with same size and weight but less bezels. Throw in 120hz display and that would be heaven.
I don't see any benefit having a 120hz display for browsing, watching movies and editing documents. If 13" or your 14" comes with a discreet graphics not an Intel HD graphics then 120Hz might be useful.
 
But what does the $3K starting price deliver? 256GB all soldered SSD, 8GB soldered RAM, no ports and of course the headphone jack removed. All combined with a nasty Touchbar and a crippled keyboard.

Like my 2018 MBP it won't pay off. In a useable state with 1TB SSD and 32GB RAM, Core i9 it was about 4500€ including tax. But I have to say that it simply isn't worth the price.
 
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All I can say is if this thing is going to start at $3000, it would be a shame if it was the same starting configuration as the current 15” model.
Given they have a whole bunch of folks saying "Shut up and take my money" (see this thread for example) they know they can do that and get away with it. Any company would love to have blind fanboys like that... it'd be like McDs offering a new "Pro Fries" that gives you 5 more french fries for $2 extra.
 
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At this rate. I might buy this laptop before I upgrade my I Phone 8. But seriously, why couldn't the display be native 4K?
It's a major advantage that it's *not* 4K. 4K means more power consumption for no real gain. At the expected viewing distance, the pixels are sufficiently small. Any more and it's a waste. Apple is the only producer of laptops that seems to get this, and I'm very, very happy that they've chosen their less-than-4k-but-more-than-1440p resolution.
 
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