I have no problem you don't care for the Touch Bar, that is fine, don't use it. But can you please justify your $300 price reduction claim? I have never seen any credible discussion of any cost decrease associated with it. It is not an expensive component. I did see some inadequate rants from some people comparing apples to oranges about an outdated model to a current refresh (that also included a lot of other enhancements, including some that actually did have cost items associated with them), but like I said, those were pretty childish rants. So you obviously disagree, please let us know why. thanks
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
16-Inch MacBook Pro Will Reportedly Use Intel's 9th-Gen Processors With Up to 8 Cores
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I have no problem you don't care for the Touch Bar, that is fine, don't use it. But can you please justify your $300 price reduction claim? I have never seen any credible discussion of any cost decrease associated with it. It is not an expensive component. I did see some inadequate rants from some people comparing apples to oranges about an outdated model to a current refresh (that also included a lot of other enhancements, including some that actually did have cost items associated with them), but like I said, those were pretty childish rants. So you obviously disagree, please let us know why. thanks
ummmm... I'm going to go with no. Clearly you are right on the iMac Pro, Mac Pro and reference monitor, but you won't get the need for the price of Xeons or a reference monitor, unless you actually need one. But MBP are inline with comparable Dell's and HP's (an no don't compare a craptop version with the MBP, compare a comparably specced one)
Now RAM and SSD prices - yah you got them there.
Really?
1- Touch Bar is not a $400 item. Do your math and compare apples to oranges
2- Most people don't upgrade their computers, so its a limited issue. While I would agree with you, I would like the ability to, I have to admit, I have not upgraded my 2014 MBP SSD or ram, even though I could, and I am not likely to. And with the price of ram and SSDs by apple too, high, it would be a good option. I understand the added security, but....
3- you already said this
4. while I like MagSafe, it really is not a big deal. Most vendors have never even offered it.
5. What, what? you mean that issue with a bad driver signature that lasted for less than a week before it was fixed. Well, then they met your demands and fixed it already
The only thing that is out of line in comparisons is the GPU still and I do hope for a Navi update to this 16”. If that happens I will be all over it.
The ‘pro’ desktop machines are definitely more ‘pro’ than the laptops at present [whatever pro means.....
] Maybe this is about to change now.[doublepost=1565125329][/doublepost]
None of the above items is going to change.
What do you consider insane? Apple isn't exactly known for their budget friendly products.
That they will be using the same processors is an assumption. That the form factor is indiscernibly the same may be a leap if they were willing to reverse course on the keyboard. "9th Generation" doesn't necessarily mean they are the same (these are just "Coffee Lake" 9th.. not particularly that last in the 14nm implementations available. The 9th wasn't going to be just Coffee Lake. ) . Even if the same if Apple adjusted the enclosure to better suit the thermal operating range of the Intel processors there would be a difference. ( similar to pragmatically looking at what was wrong with the butterfly keyboard and opening the solution space to something other than "yet another butterfly" as the fix. )
Eventually? Probably yes. For 6-12 months decent chance it won't. Apple can treat it like the arrival of "Retina" screen , the touch bar ( one 13" with , one 13" without), etc. and just iterate down to removing the other options.
If Apple moved the 15" down in price to $2,099 (thru some widespread sales campaigns ) and this one came in a bit higher $3,099 ( min GPU being a Vega and 8 cores ) then there would be as many 'happy' folks as 'unhappy' folks.
Apple pushed the MBP 15" pretty significantly up over the $1999 point it use to start at. Undo that somewhat and there is room.
Apple already reduced the price for SSD and RAM upgrades earlier this year, bringing them a bit more inline with reality. They've got further to go, but now it's only slightly ridiculous instead of completely ridiculous. (I'll pass on the kiss from Pam Anderson, though; we know where they've been! Some of the places, anyway).
I've been a day-1 adopter of almost every large-screen MacBook for the last decade. The only issue I ever encountered was image retention, and Apple happily replaced that screen under warranty.
At desk, I have these ports on my 2016 model via a single cable which also provides power. Away from my desk I do not have a need for huge numbers of ports, and my laptop bag contains either USB-C versions of cables, or adapters. There is no problem with lack of functionality.
It's Apple. They will of course have insane prices, especially if they want to keep the 15" lying around.
Obviously Apple's world class research team disagrees with you - what I think YOU want is what you described.
[doublepost=1565127994][/doublepost]
I'll happily buy it, use it for a year (which is a long time!) sell it and get that one too. Life is too short to be waiting for the next thing around the corner.
For Apple to regain lost credibility, this would need to fix:
For me I would love them to fix this too:
Things that aren't a problem:
- ergonomic, soft-sounding and reliable keyboard
- thermal design that allows basic tasks to run without high-fan activation - youtube at 1080p for example
- get rid of Touch Bar, bring back actual keys like escape and function keys, incl for eg volume, brightness
- thermal design that means your expensive CPU isn't running as fast as a 10yr old CPU due to throttling
- bring back useful ports - usb-A, MagSafe, HDMI, .. dongles are inconvenient and expensive, and low quality ones problematic
- battery life that is 10 hours plus on representative workloads, not just when new and on the lightest of workloads
For me I would love them to fix this too:
- NVIDIA GPU for CUDA machine learning development, unless Apple can come up with a mature fully featured and fully open source AMD alternative that works well with the leading tools like PyTorch and Tensorflow (ROCm doesn't meet these criteria)
Things that aren't a problem:
- thickness - nobody is asking for an even thinner laptop
- lightness - the 2016 models onwards are light enough, the 2015 are starting to feel heavy compared to what Dell, Lenovo are making now
- reduced bezels - the requests are just fashion - bezels actually are ergonomic as they separate your work from what's behind your laptop
- CPU speed - macOS and almost all apps work very well even on 8yr old MacBooks and iMacs, if you need speed and power, you'll be using an iMac, Mac Pro, iMac Pro or remotely using bigger compute resources
Totally agree with everything you said.
I have no issues with the ports, and also will get this 16” launch day [which will be most likely end October] and then sell i if the 2020 machines are great. Just treat them like rental computers .
[doublepost=1565128576][/doublepost]
Have a look at the new HP Zbook 15 and 17 - they seem to have everything you want except macOS.
I am happy with the current computers except the lack of Nvidia.
Actually . . . no. I am not the type of user who wants this. But I have directly heard from more than a handful of people on this.
Currently, I use my 2017 MacBook (so 12" screen) more than I do anything other than my iPhone. After that, my iPad, and after that my 32-core workstation with dual monitors. I am not in the market for a 15"/16" MacBook Air at all.
Just so that you do not simplify too far--there are a number of devices that Apple misjudged, perhaps for marketing reasons, perhaps for engineering reasons, or even simple business reasons. The 2013 Mac Pro and the 2015-2017 MacBook line being currently top of my mind, with the foamier being almost dead (not even listed prominently on Apple's website anymore) and the later actually being end-of-life from a sales-perspective already. I happed to like the latter well enough to have purchased two; I never liked the former because I'm a big fan of internal/PCIe expansion. "Obviously" Apple is not right all the time, even by its own lights. Two of the most senior Apple execs apologized directly for misjudging how the discrete graphics market would unfold and so not given people any options in five years for their flagship desktop product.
It would be surprising to discontinue the 2019 15" MBPs shortly after. Imagine the uproar if the the laptop you bought 2-3 months ago was discontinued.
I think also, this is going to be a new MacBook Pro Pro. Unfortunately I think it's going to be an excuse to even further raise the price to ludicrous levels.
More like $3300 but who’s counting lol
But that’s nothing—it’s almost $20,000 in Hong Kong.
This is exactly how I see it playing out. I have a 2016 time bomb and I feel like they know enough of us want to get rid of it so we'll pay an exorbitant price (which Timmy is in love with anyway).
I suspect (strongly) that we're looking at a Retina-style introduction - one high-end base configuration (either one CPU or a base plus a CTO CPU), then it moves across the line six to nine months later and replaces the 15".
It's a guess, but I'd say the base configuration will either use the 9880H like the $2799 15" (with the 9980HK as a CTO option), or will simply come with the 9980HK. I wouldn't be surprised at all if it came with a 16/1 TB base configuration and/or a standard Vega. Of course, it'll be expensive, but a 15" configured to that level is, too.
Complete guess, but $3299 base?
Unless there's a new, very high-end option that makes a huge price difference, my suspicion is that the maximum CTO stays under $6000 (and near $5000 without the expensive 4 TB storage option). For reference, the current 15" goes as high as $5149 with the 9980HK, Vega 20, 32/4 TB. Drop down to 2 TB while keeping everything else and you're at $4349. It used to go significantly higher before Apple (somewhat) rationalized their storage pricing.
I'm guessing that the new design will be about +$300 over a similarly configured 15" at first - the real price difference will be that the 6-core CPU, 256 GB storage, old Radeons and other options that Apple uses to hit $2299 won't be available on the 16.4" at introduction. They'll show up, or the Vega 16 will take the place of the 555x, with 512 GB being the new 256 GB, some months later - but the first 16.4" machines will be premium configurations.
There may be new options (64 GB RAM? A higher end GPU? 8 TB storage????) that push the maximum price up. We're not going to see a very high end GPU, due to power constraints - Apple's never built a laptop that doesn't run well on batteries (and, even if AMD made one, a big GPU would kill battery life). I suspect the maximum GPU they'd consider is some Navi that's ~+$200 (and maybe +50% in performance if we're lucky) over the Vega 20.
A 64 GB RAM option might be +$400 over 32 GB (that's what it is on the iMac Pro).
If we add $200 for the GPU and $400 for RAM to the top 15", we're looking at $5749 plus the premium for the new design to max it out - $6000? $5199 or $5249 with everything except the 4 TB SSD?
The big wild card is some huge storage option - what would 8 TB add?
The top options will appear right away, but the lower ones won't. It'll be spring before we see a base-level 16.4" ($2599?).
Again, pure conjecture, but I suspect we'll see something like a 15" MBAir either this fall or next spring, which will relieve some pressure to offer a lower-end tier on the big MBP. It'll be lighter (~3 lbs), and use a 28W Ice Lake processor with integrated GPU only. That might be $1999 in a 16/256 configuration?
By July 1 next year, what about:
$1999 15" MBAir 16/256 quad-core Ice Lake with integrated GPU (much better than any current Intel iGPU)
$2599 16.4" MBP 16/512 8-core Comet Lake with Vega 16 or successor Navi
$3099 16.4" MBP 16/1 TB 8-core (faster) Comet Lake with Vega 20 or successor Navi (10-core Comet Lake HK is a CTO option)
15" MBP is dead, but shows up on refurb store.
It's a guess, but I'd say the base configuration will either use the 9880H like the $2799 15" (with the 9980HK as a CTO option), or will simply come with the 9980HK. I wouldn't be surprised at all if it came with a 16/1 TB base configuration and/or a standard Vega. Of course, it'll be expensive, but a 15" configured to that level is, too.
Complete guess, but $3299 base?
Unless there's a new, very high-end option that makes a huge price difference, my suspicion is that the maximum CTO stays under $6000 (and near $5000 without the expensive 4 TB storage option). For reference, the current 15" goes as high as $5149 with the 9980HK, Vega 20, 32/4 TB. Drop down to 2 TB while keeping everything else and you're at $4349. It used to go significantly higher before Apple (somewhat) rationalized their storage pricing.
I'm guessing that the new design will be about +$300 over a similarly configured 15" at first - the real price difference will be that the 6-core CPU, 256 GB storage, old Radeons and other options that Apple uses to hit $2299 won't be available on the 16.4" at introduction. They'll show up, or the Vega 16 will take the place of the 555x, with 512 GB being the new 256 GB, some months later - but the first 16.4" machines will be premium configurations.
There may be new options (64 GB RAM? A higher end GPU? 8 TB storage????) that push the maximum price up. We're not going to see a very high end GPU, due to power constraints - Apple's never built a laptop that doesn't run well on batteries (and, even if AMD made one, a big GPU would kill battery life). I suspect the maximum GPU they'd consider is some Navi that's ~+$200 (and maybe +50% in performance if we're lucky) over the Vega 20.
A 64 GB RAM option might be +$400 over 32 GB (that's what it is on the iMac Pro).
If we add $200 for the GPU and $400 for RAM to the top 15", we're looking at $5749 plus the premium for the new design to max it out - $6000? $5199 or $5249 with everything except the 4 TB SSD?
The big wild card is some huge storage option - what would 8 TB add?
The top options will appear right away, but the lower ones won't. It'll be spring before we see a base-level 16.4" ($2599?).
Again, pure conjecture, but I suspect we'll see something like a 15" MBAir either this fall or next spring, which will relieve some pressure to offer a lower-end tier on the big MBP. It'll be lighter (~3 lbs), and use a 28W Ice Lake processor with integrated GPU only. That might be $1999 in a 16/256 configuration?
By July 1 next year, what about:
$1999 15" MBAir 16/256 quad-core Ice Lake with integrated GPU (much better than any current Intel iGPU)
$2599 16.4" MBP 16/512 8-core Comet Lake with Vega 16 or successor Navi
$3099 16.4" MBP 16/1 TB 8-core (faster) Comet Lake with Vega 20 or successor Navi (10-core Comet Lake HK is a CTO option)
15" MBP is dead, but shows up on refurb store.
Actually, Ice Lake is configurable up to 25W, at least on Intel’s testbed to which some tech sites have been given early access for benchmarking.
Apple's widely rumored 16-inch MacBook Pro will be powered by Intel's 9th-generation Coffee Lake Refresh processors, in line with the 15-inch MacBook Pro released in May, according to IHS Markit analyst Jeff Lin.
If accurate, this means the 16-inch MacBook Pro will be configurable with up to an 8-core Core i9 processor with a 2.4GHz base clock speed and a max Turbo Boost frequency of 5.0GHz. The lineup also includes 6-core Core i7 processors. All of the chips are 45W with integrated Intel UHD Graphics 630.
Notably, this would mean that Apple isn't yet ready to use Intel's latest 10th-generation Ice Lake processors. These chips might not have been powerful enough for the 16-inch MacBook Pro, as there are currently no 6-core or 8-core options, and they have low TDPs ranging between 9W and 15W.
Rumors suggest the 16-inch MacBook Pro will feature an all-new design with narrower bezels and a more reliable scissor mechanism keyboard. In a research note obtained by Forbes, Lin said the 16-inch display will have 227 pixels per inch, in line with a previously rumored 3,072×1,920 resolution.
Lin believes the 16-inch MacBook Pro will enter production in September, setting the stage for a fall release, but there is still some debate as to whether Apple will unveil the notebook in September or October. In the fall, Apple typically unveils new Macs in October, but it could always break with tradition.
There is some speculation that the 15-inch MacBook Pro may be discontinued shortly after the 16-inch model launches, but TF International Securities analyst Ming-Chi Kuo has said the 15-inch model will be refreshed in 2020.
Article Link: 16-Inch MacBook Pro Will Reportedly Use Intel's 9th-Gen Processors With Up to 8 Cores
