16-Inch MacBook Pro With All-New Design Expected in 2019, 13-Inch Model May Gain 32GB RAM

[KPandian1]

Sure, if you regularly use your External Monitor, etc. on the couch.

So you really want to try and convince me that having "native legacy connectors" available would make it possible for you to plug in... What?!? in that situation???

For anything else in the USB-A world you want to plug in (e.g. an old-school USB Glucose Meter), just clip one of these handy $2 USB-A -> USB-C Adapters (see below) onto the end of the cable/device, and off you go. They are cheap enough (like 3 for $7), that you can throw a few in your computer bag/briefcase/purse/??? to handle ANY USB situation that might come up. NO DOCK REQUIRED!

And within the next few years, you'll find yourself needing these little helpers less and less, because the NEXT time you get a USB device, it will already BE equipped for USB-C, and then all the owners of USB-A-only laptops will be the ones pining for the fjords...

Time marches on. Get used to it. People should be PRAISING Apple, not VILLIFYING them, for being so forward-thinking in going all-in on USB-C. They "get it". Perhaps you should, too...

I have a power supply connected to my laptop on the couch - which is not a flat surface. There will be shear stress on any port; MagSafe won't break. When I plugin a USB drive, it is precarious, but no such problem for an SD card.

The $2 connectors another breaking part; and the $10 USB-C cables can fry my mother board. Even the expensive cables are not reliable.

No way am I going to sit on my couch with a massive hub hanging on for dear life.

Everyone is going through it, NOT JUST APPLE OWNERS!!!

I agree that you have to do due-diligence with USB-C and "TB3" Docks at this point. And a good heads-up on cheap "Mag-Safe" adapters/cables.

As far as the DP1.2 vs. 1.4 issue, if that is a problem, simply use one of the other USB-C ports to do your video, leaving one of the other USB-C Ports to handle your "USB 3.0" Data-Requirements. Or, get a TRUE TB3 Dock. AFAICT, in TB mode, you can theoretically get up to 40 Gb/s from any of the USB-C/TB3 connectors (yes, that is "shared" with the other connector on the same side of the MBP. Four connectors, two TB3 Controllers in the MBP, each one servicing TWO USB-C/TB3 connectors)). But even now, true TB3 docks are > $100. And TB3 STILL doesn't support DP1.4, AFAIK. But it DOES get around the "Shared USB 3.1" bandwidth issue.

Is everything perfect? No. But USB-C/TB3 is STILL FARRRRRR more Flexible and overall MUCH more powerful, than anything that has come before, IMHO.

Everyone is going thru this - not just Mac owners. In the Windows world, I still have choice - not so with any Apple laptop.

Every port in my 2015 MacBook Pro has its own PCIe parent rationed by PCH; not sure what happens if I connect devices to all of them, I will not as it is a laptop and not a well ventilated desk top. Maybe one TB port will suffer.

Four USB-C ports will not work all at once at full steam - invalid selling point. The docks are expensive - the same ones already present in my MacBook!

With a dock or even single USB-C cable connected, the device is connected to many extra ports; all of them present in the "older" laptop.

The surface area used by my MacBook is fixed; attaching these ports adapters to the new MacBook increases the spread of the area used, not something people had to deal with before 2016. The accessories are also extra weight.

USB-C is the future, no doubt. That might be another three years - and a complete new generation of MacBooks. Too many USB-A products around now to go thru this pain.

Not today.

You should stop shouting at us.
[doublepost=1550781262][/doublepost]

That the number of PCIe lanes on any given CPU is FINITE? Or that the Product Engineers had to DEAL WITH that FINITE NUMBER?

Five ports in the previous generation, plus the MagSafe! PCIe lanes are fine in regular use in these MacBooks because PCH has been regulating these for nearly a decade.

 

[Zdigital2015]

The impact for the vast majority of users would not be that large. There are both private and public use case studies. Many manufacturers have done this exact same combo. You act like it would massively gimp performance and everyone would be suffering. That's simply not supported.

Here's a winning ports config — at 4.4 pounds too: https://www8.hp.com/us/en/campaigns/spectrex360/overview.html



Here. I even bolded it for ya!



Unless you're saying that it's a fact that you have an opinion. In which case:
[doublepost=1550771008][/doublepost]

The answer to your question clearly seems to be "yes." We've had a sea of "get over it" responses just in this thread alone. Gotta love the people who think the best choice for them personally is the best choice for all people.

The fact is that we are over two years on since the introduction of the 2016 MacBook Pro and almost 4 years on from the introduction of the 2015 12" MacBook. The writing was on the wall then, at least with the portables line, and Apple decided that USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 is the best solution moving into the future.

This is no different than when Apple introduced the 15" Retina MacBook Pro, jettisoning the DVD-ROM drive, FW800, Ethernet. Apple had previously gotten rid of the Express Card/34 slot on the 15" model with the release of the Mid-2009 MacBook Pro

I am sure that Apple knew there would be backlash in 2012 when it introduced the Retina MacBook Pro, and there was - I heard it all. A tremendous amount about what was removed and whether the thinner profile had been worth losing these "important" ports. Meanwhile, the USB 2 ports transformed into USB 3 and we gained one Thunderbolt port and an HDMI port suddenly appeared, which was nice, but not essential. At least it wasn't mini-DVI or some such nonsense.

I am also sure that Apple knew there would be backlash in 2015 and again in 2016 when it replaced everything with Thunderbolt 3. Apple also knew that leaving Type-A USB on the MacBook, MacBook Air and MacBook Pro would mean that they would never be able to remove them. Just look at the Windows laptop market and the still ubiquitous VGA port. Today, many laptops no longer have the port built-in, but the fact that it took until 2018 for the tide to really start to turn validates what Apple did with getting rid of USB-A.

The fact is that the PC market has to be dragged kicking and screaming into the modern age. None of what has happened in the past 13 years to PCs would have happened without Apple switching to Intel and pushing Performance Per Watt, introducing an $1,799.00 laptop with one USB 2.0 port and an 80GB HDD, replacing the spinning HDD with SATA flash storage in the MacBook Air and then the 2012 Retina MacBook Pro, not even leaving room for the HDD, eventually moving to PCIe storage and then NVMe storage while PC laptops still try to shoehorn spinning rust and a VGA port to keep people happy because being a PC OEM is like being in a perpetual feeding frenzy and we don't want to ruffle anyone's feathers.

Users here want Apple to be innovative, want them to push boundaries and give them something mouth-watering, right up until they have to change the way they work in the slightest or cough up $8 for a new cable and then that's a bridge too far...then Apple needs to slow down and wait until we are ready, until the market is ready...yeah, whatever...the market will never be ready and Apple cannot wait for everyone to be on board...no business can and survive.

I remember when USB 1.1 came out and all the pissing and moaning about what a pain in the ass it was, and what exactly was the point when there were perfectly good parallel and serial ports...which were crap and everyone knew it. Flipping DIP switches and configuring LPT ports and virtual LPT ports, checking interrupts and HIMEM, making sure the handshake between the serial device and the cable was just right, hoping the auto-settings would do the work because this was holding up real work.

AND why on earth did we need Serial-ATA when there were no motherboards with Serial-ATA. You mean I might have to buy a new hard drive because there won't room for both on there until the end of time? What about SCSI? Those drives are so much faster, but yikes, so expensive and only six and what the hell is a terminator? You mean Arnold? No? Okay...

AND what the hell is PCIe and why did my nice, new, expensive AGP GPU just get chucked in the dustbin of history without so much as a thank you. WTF?!?

And on and on and on and on. Technology changes, generally gets better, sometimes, way better...just ask anyone who actually had to live with a WindowsCE device if they would really rather give up their iPhone for one. The sound you are now hearing is crickets.

However, that change never comes without some short term pain. USB was a fiasco until the very first iMac, and even then it was still a bit of a fiasco for a while afterwards. Then things started getting sorted out and it got better, and it was really good up until USB 3.0 came out and it was a bit of fiasco, and a pain in the ass...again. And now, it's pretty darn good...mostly. The same for Thunderbolt 3/USB-C, with what cable do I need to get USB 3.0 performance from a USB-C cable or do I have to shell out for a TB3 cable or the correct Power Delivery, why does every dock seem to support 60w PD, but 87w seems like a slog and costs way more? I get it. Change is painful. But half-ass change is even more painful, because as long as the old stuff runs and no one is forced to change, nobody will mess with the new stuff, no matter how much better it is, and the manufacturers on the PC side won't lift a finger to support new technologies...at which point I say, without some hard decisions we would all still be carrying around 6lb plastic crapboxes called Tegra with parallel ports, serial ports, floppy disks and a passive matrix LCD with VGA output.

So yes, in fact, get over it...you certainly do not have to move forward but I, for one, am not going backwards so that you and everyone else who has been complaining non-stop for two years about having to pry open your wallets to buy a couple of cables and a dongle collectively decides that they want to move forward...or not. Which is clearly irrelevant, because Apple has forged ahead, regardless. Stand still, get on the bus or get run over as the old adage goes.

Meanwhile, I just finished deploying a small set of 2018 MacBook Pros, using El Gato Thunderbolt 2 Docks to connect to Apple 30" Cinema Displays that just refuse to die and for which there appears to be either few or no Thunderbolt 3 docks that use mini DisplayPort instead of full-size DP. Was it ideal? Nope! Does it work? Yep! Did it cost some money? Doesn't everything?

 

[MrUNIMOG]

The fact is that we are over two years on since the introduction of the 2016 MacBook Pro and almost 4 years on from the introduction of the 2015 12" MacBook. The writing was on the wall then, at least with the portables line, and Apple decided that USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 is the best solution moving into the future.

This is no different than when Apple introduced the 15" Retina MacBook Pro, jettisoning the DVD-ROM drive, FW800, Ethernet. Apple had previously gotten rid of the Express Card/34 slot on the 15" model with the release of the Mid-2009 MacBook Pro

I am sure that Apple knew there would be backlash in 2012 when it introduced the Retina MacBook Pro, and there was - I heard it all. A tremendous amount about what was removed and whether the thinner profile had been worth losing these "important" ports. Meanwhile, the USB 2 ports transformed into USB 3 and we gained one Thunderbolt port and an HDMI port suddenly appeared, which was nice, but not essential. At least it wasn't mini-DVI or some such nonsense.

I am also sure that Apple knew there would be backlash in 2015 and again in 2016 when it replaced everything with Thunderbolt 3. Apple also knew that leaving Type-A USB on the MacBook, MacBook Air and MacBook Pro would mean that they would never be able to remove them. Just look at the Windows laptop market and the still ubiquitous VGA port. Today, many laptops no longer have the port built-in, but the fact that it took until 2018 for the tide to really start to turn validates what Apple did with getting rid of USB-A.

The fact is that the PC market has to be dragged kicking and screaming into the modern age. None of what has happened in the past 13 years to PCs would have happened without Apple switching to Intel and pushing Performance Per Watt, introducing an $1,799.00 laptop with one USB 2.0 port and an 80GB HDD, replacing the spinning HDD with SATA flash storage in the MacBook Air and then the 2012 Retina MacBook Pro, not even leaving room for the HDD, eventually moving to PCIe storage and then NVMe storage while PC laptops still try to shoehorn spinning rust and a VGA port to keep people happy because being a PC OEM is like being in a perpetual feeding frenzy and we don't want to ruffle anyone's feathers.

Users here want Apple to be innovative, want them to push boundaries and give them something mouth-watering, right up until they have to change the way they work in the slightest or cough up $8 for a new cable and then that's a bridge too far...then Apple needs to slow down and wait until we are ready, until the market is ready...yeah, whatever...the market will never be ready and Apple cannot wait for everyone to be on board...no business can and survive.

I remember when USB 1.1 came out and all the pissing and moaning about what a pain in the ass it was, and what exactly was the point when there were perfectly good parallel and serial ports...which were crap and everyone knew it. Flipping DIP switches and configuring LPT ports and virtual LPT ports, checking interrupts and HIMEM, making sure the handshake between the serial device and the cable was just right, hoping the auto-settings would do the work because this was holding up real work.

AND why on earth did we need Serial-ATA when there were no motherboards with Serial-ATA. You mean I might have to buy a new hard drive because there won't room for both on there until the end of time? What about SCSI? Those drives are so much faster, but yikes, so expensive and only six and what the hell is a terminator? You mean Arnold? No? Okay...

AND what the hell is PCIe and why did my nice, new, expensive AGP GPU just get chucked in the dustbin of history without so much as a thank you. WTF?!?

And on and on and on and on. Technology changes, generally gets better, sometimes, way better...just ask anyone who actually had to live with a WindowsCE device if they would really rather give up their iPhone for one. The sound you are now hearing is crickets.

However, that change never comes without some short term pain. USB was a fiasco until the very first iMac, and even then it was still a bit of a fiasco for a while afterwards. Then things started getting sorted out and it got better, and it was really good up until USB 3.0 came out and it was a bit of fiasco, and a pain in the ass...again. And now, it's pretty darn good...mostly. The same for Thunderbolt 3/USB-C, with what cable do I need to get USB 3.0 performance from a USB-C cable or do I have to shell out for a TB3 cable or the correct Power Delivery, why does every dock seem to support 60w PD, but 87w seems like a slog and costs way more? I get it. Change is painful. But half-ass change is even more painful, because as long as the old stuff runs and no one is forced to change, nobody will mess with the new stuff, no matter how much better it is, and the manufacturers on the PC side won't lift a finger to support new technologies...at which point I say, without some hard decisions we would all still be carrying around 6lb plastic crapboxes called Tegra with parallel ports, serial ports, floppy disks and a passive matrix LCD with VGA output.

So yes, in fact, get over it...you certainly do not have to move forward but I, for one, am not going backwards so that you and everyone else who has been complaining non-stop for two years about having to pry open your wallets to buy a couple of cables and a dongle collectively decides that they want to move forward...or not. Which is clearly irrelevant, because Apple has forged ahead, regardless. Stand still, get on the bus or get run over as the old adage goes.

Meanwhile, I just finished deploying a small set of 2018 MacBook Pros, using El Gato Thunderbolt 2 Docks to connect to Apple 30" Cinema Displays that just refuse to die and for which there appears to be either few or no Thunderbolt 3 docks that use mini DisplayPort instead of full-size DP. Was it ideal? Nope! Does it work? Yep! Did it cost some money? Doesn't everything?

Agree to this so much. Very well said!

 

[john123]

The fact is that we are over two years on since the introduction of the 2016 MacBook Pro and almost 4 years on from the introduction of the 2015 12" MacBook. The writing was on the wall then, at least with the portables line, and Apple decided that USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 is the best solution moving into the future.

This is no different than when Apple introduced the 15" Retina MacBook Pro, jettisoning the DVD-ROM drive, FW800, Ethernet. Apple had previously gotten rid of the Express Card/34 slot on the 15" model with the release of the Mid-2009 MacBook Pro

I am sure that Apple knew there would be backlash in 2012 when it introduced the Retina MacBook Pro, and there was - I heard it all. A tremendous amount about what was removed and whether the thinner profile had been worth losing these "important" ports. Meanwhile, the USB 2 ports transformed into USB 3 and we gained one Thunderbolt port and an HDMI port suddenly appeared, which was nice, but not essential. At least it wasn't mini-DVI or some such nonsense.

I am also sure that Apple knew there would be backlash in 2015 and again in 2016 when it replaced everything with Thunderbolt 3. Apple also knew that leaving Type-A USB on the MacBook, MacBook Air and MacBook Pro would mean that they would never be able to remove them. Just look at the Windows laptop market and the still ubiquitous VGA port. Today, many laptops no longer have the port built-in, but the fact that it took until 2018 for the tide to really start to turn validates what Apple did with getting rid of USB-A.

The fact is that the PC market has to be dragged kicking and screaming into the modern age. None of what has happened in the past 13 years to PCs would have happened without Apple switching to Intel and pushing Performance Per Watt, introducing an $1,799.00 laptop with one USB 2.0 port and an 80GB HDD, replacing the spinning HDD with SATA flash storage in the MacBook Air and then the 2012 Retina MacBook Pro, not even leaving room for the HDD, eventually moving to PCIe storage and then NVMe storage while PC laptops still try to shoehorn spinning rust and a VGA port to keep people happy because being a PC OEM is like being in a perpetual feeding frenzy and we don't want to ruffle anyone's feathers.

Users here want Apple to be innovative, want them to push boundaries and give them something mouth-watering, right up until they have to change the way they work in the slightest or cough up $8 for a new cable and then that's a bridge too far...then Apple needs to slow down and wait until we are ready, until the market is ready...yeah, whatever...the market will never be ready and Apple cannot wait for everyone to be on board...no business can and survive.

I remember when USB 1.1 came out and all the pissing and moaning about what a pain in the ass it was, and what exactly was the point when there were perfectly good parallel and serial ports...which were crap and everyone knew it. Flipping DIP switches and configuring LPT ports and virtual LPT ports, checking interrupts and HIMEM, making sure the handshake between the serial device and the cable was just right, hoping the auto-settings would do the work because this was holding up real work.

AND why on earth did we need Serial-ATA when there were no motherboards with Serial-ATA. You mean I might have to buy a new hard drive because there won't room for both on there until the end of time? What about SCSI? Those drives are so much faster, but yikes, so expensive and only six and what the hell is a terminator? You mean Arnold? No? Okay...

AND what the hell is PCIe and why did my nice, new, expensive AGP GPU just get chucked in the dustbin of history without so much as a thank you. WTF?!?

And on and on and on and on. Technology changes, generally gets better, sometimes, way better...just ask anyone who actually had to live with a WindowsCE device if they would really rather give up their iPhone for one. The sound you are now hearing is crickets.

However, that change never comes without some short term pain. USB was a fiasco until the very first iMac, and even then it was still a bit of a fiasco for a while afterwards. Then things started getting sorted out and it got better, and it was really good up until USB 3.0 came out and it was a bit of fiasco, and a pain in the ass...again. And now, it's pretty darn good...mostly. The same for Thunderbolt 3/USB-C, with what cable do I need to get USB 3.0 performance from a USB-C cable or do I have to shell out for a TB3 cable or the correct Power Delivery, why does every dock seem to support 60w PD, but 87w seems like a slog and costs way more? I get it. Change is painful. But half-ass change is even more painful, because as long as the old stuff runs and no one is forced to change, nobody will mess with the new stuff, no matter how much better it is, and the manufacturers on the PC side won't lift a finger to support new technologies...at which point I say, without some hard decisions we would all still be carrying around 6lb plastic crapboxes called Tegra with parallel ports, serial ports, floppy disks and a passive matrix LCD with VGA output.

So yes, in fact, get over it...you certainly do not have to move forward but I, for one, am not going backwards so that you and everyone else who has been complaining non-stop for two years about having to pry open your wallets to buy a couple of cables and a dongle collectively decides that they want to move forward...or not. Which is clearly irrelevant, because Apple has forged ahead, regardless. Stand still, get on the bus or get run over as the old adage goes.

Meanwhile, I just finished deploying a small set of 2018 MacBook Pros, using El Gato Thunderbolt 2 Docks to connect to Apple 30" Cinema Displays that just refuse to die and for which there appears to be either few or no Thunderbolt 3 docks that use mini DisplayPort instead of full-size DP. Was it ideal? Nope! Does it work? Yep! Did it cost some money? Doesn't everything?

That was a lot of typing. A lot of very unnecessary typing.

You started on the right track, though. "The fact is that we are over two years on since the introduction of the 2016 MacBook Pro." Indeed. And yet, over two years later, there are still so many people complaining vociferously about it. Why is that?

When you can sit back, reflect, think, and then answer that question with objectivity, you'll have a lot more insight into the nature of the real problem. (Hint: this particular situation is not the same as most of the other historical examples you cited. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence).

Additionally, in your zeal to type a novel, you apparently didn't bother to read the last page or so. Cost is not what most of us have been discussing. You seemingly also missed the part where I said I have a 2017 15" rMBP sitting under my coffee table, right here, next to me, collecting dust. Perhaps you think it's a $3000 decorative knick knack? I assure you that's not the case.

 

[ionutc]

That was a lot of typing. A lot of very unnecessary typing.

You started on the right track, though. "The fact is that we are over two years on since the introduction of the 2016 MacBook Pro." Indeed. And yet, over two years later, there are still so many people complaining vociferously about it. Why is that?

When you can sit back, reflect, think, and then answer that question with objectivity, you'll have a lot more insight into the nature of the real problem. (Hint: this particular situation is not the same as most of the other historical examples you cited. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence).

Additionally, in your zeal to type a novel, you apparently didn't bother to read the last page or so. Cost is not what most of us have been discussing. You seemingly also missed the part where I said I have a 2017 15" rMBP sitting under my coffee table, right here, next to me, collecting dust. Perhaps you think it's a $3000 decorative knick knack? I assure you that's not the case.

I think it's a fair assessment (that long comment) and yes, people have the right to complain. But how many people are vociferously complaining? like 50 on this forum? There was a guy who wants a lot o ports so he can sit with his MBP on his lap. Would you sit with an octopous in your lap? maybe not, but that guy would. Another chap said a dock full of ports is not a practical solution because you know, you have to carry it around - but you don't, because it should stay where the peripherals are.
The question is: does it stay in your way of getting whatever done? the ports, no. A bad keyboard (as in unreliable), yes. I don't think the new keyboards are bad, they're just easily affected by dust. No, dust doesn't break them, but they are affected and you need to clean them. If it happens often, well, you've got a problem.

 

[Tozovac]

The fact is that we are over two years on since the introduction of the 2016 MacBook Pro and almost 4 years on from the introduction of the 2015 12" MacBook. The writing was on the wall then, at least with the portables line, and Apple decided that USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 is the best solution moving into the future.

This is no different than when Apple introduced the 15" Retina MacBook Pro, jettisoning the DVD-ROM drive, FW800, Ethernet. Apple had previously gotten rid of the Express Card/34 slot on the 15" model with the release of the Mid-2009 MacBook Pro

I am sure that Apple knew there would be backlash in 2012 when it introduced the Retina MacBook Pro, and there was - I heard it all. A tremendous amount about what was removed and whether the thinner profile had been worth losing these "important" ports. Meanwhile, the USB 2 ports transformed into USB 3 and we gained one Thunderbolt port and an HDMI port suddenly appeared, which was nice, but not essential. At least it wasn't mini-DVI or some such nonsense.

I am also sure that Apple knew there would be backlash in 2015 and again in 2016 when it replaced everything with Thunderbolt 3. Apple also knew that leaving Type-A USB on the MacBook, MacBook Air and MacBook Pro would mean that they would never be able to remove them. Just look at the Windows laptop market and the still ubiquitous VGA port. Today, many laptops no longer have the port built-in, but the fact that it took until 2018 for the tide to really start to turn validates what Apple did with getting rid of USB-A.

The fact is that the PC market has to be dragged kicking and screaming into the modern age. None of what has happened in the past 13 years to PCs would have happened without Apple switching to Intel and pushing Performance Per Watt, introducing an $1,799.00 laptop with one USB 2.0 port and an 80GB HDD, replacing the spinning HDD with SATA flash storage in the MacBook Air and then the 2012 Retina MacBook Pro, not even leaving room for the HDD, eventually moving to PCIe storage and then NVMe storage while PC laptops still try to shoehorn spinning rust and a VGA port to keep people happy because being a PC OEM is like being in a perpetual feeding frenzy and we don't want to ruffle anyone's feathers.

Users here want Apple to be innovative, want them to push boundaries and give them something mouth-watering, right up until they have to change the way they work in the slightest or cough up $8 for a new cable and then that's a bridge too far...then Apple needs to slow down and wait until we are ready, until the market is ready...yeah, whatever...the market will never be ready and Apple cannot wait for everyone to be on board...no business can and survive.

I remember when USB 1.1 came out and all the pissing and moaning about what a pain in the ass it was, and what exactly was the point when there were perfectly good parallel and serial ports...which were crap and everyone knew it. Flipping DIP switches and configuring LPT ports and virtual LPT ports, checking interrupts and HIMEM, making sure the handshake between the serial device and the cable was just right, hoping the auto-settings would do the work because this was holding up real work.

AND why on earth did we need Serial-ATA when there were no motherboards with Serial-ATA. You mean I might have to buy a new hard drive because there won't room for both on there until the end of time? What about SCSI? Those drives are so much faster, but yikes, so expensive and only six and what the hell is a terminator? You mean Arnold? No? Okay...

AND what the hell is PCIe and why did my nice, new, expensive AGP GPU just get chucked in the dustbin of history without so much as a thank you. WTF?!?

And on and on and on and on. Technology changes, generally gets better, sometimes, way better...just ask anyone who actually had to live with a WindowsCE device if they would really rather give up their iPhone for one. The sound you are now hearing is crickets.

However, that change never comes without some short term pain. USB was a fiasco until the very first iMac, and even then it was still a bit of a fiasco for a while afterwards. Then things started getting sorted out and it got better, and it was really good up until USB 3.0 came out and it was a bit of fiasco, and a pain in the ass...again. And now, it's pretty darn good...mostly. The same for Thunderbolt 3/USB-C, with what cable do I need to get USB 3.0 performance from a USB-C cable or do I have to shell out for a TB3 cable or the correct Power Delivery, why does every dock seem to support 60w PD, but 87w seems like a slog and costs way more? I get it. Change is painful. But half-ass change is even more painful, because as long as the old stuff runs and no one is forced to change, nobody will mess with the new stuff, no matter how much better it is, and the manufacturers on the PC side won't lift a finger to support new technologies...at which point I say, without some hard decisions we would all still be carrying around 6lb plastic crapboxes called Tegra with parallel ports, serial ports, floppy disks and a passive matrix LCD with VGA output.

So yes, in fact, get over it...you certainly do not have to move forward but I, for one, am not going backwards so that you and everyone else who has been complaining non-stop for two years about having to pry open your wallets to buy a couple of cables and a dongle collectively decides that they want to move forward...or not. Which is clearly irrelevant, because Apple has forged ahead, regardless. Stand still, get on the bus or get run over as the old adage goes.

Meanwhile, I just finished deploying a small set of 2018 MacBook Pros, using El Gato Thunderbolt 2 Docks to connect to Apple 30" Cinema Displays that just refuse to die and for which there appears to be either few or no Thunderbolt 3 docks that use mini DisplayPort instead of full-size DP. Was it ideal? Nope! Does it work? Yep! Did it cost some money? Doesn't everything?

My 4 year old $1400 MBA is close to obsolete for various reasons. Some think four years is a lot, I think it’s atrocious. I got nine very useful years out of my Mac Pro and 10 before that from a pc. If the best I’m going to get is four years from a $1400 MacBook, configure it so I can use it pretty conveniently for those few years without having to buy, keep track of, and tote around extra things anywhere I take my MacBook, or outlay another $hundred in adapters and dongles to stash at work, home, garage, travel bag, truck, etc.

[doublepost=1550831767][/doublepost]

I think it's a fair assessment (that long comment) and yes, people have the right to complain. But how many people are vociferously complaining? like 50 on this forum? There was a guy who wants a lot o ports so he can sit with his MBP on his lap. Would you sit with an octopous in your lap? maybe not, but that guy would. Another chap said a dock full of ports is not a practical solution because you know, you have to carry it around - but you don't, because it should stay where the peripherals are.
The question is: does it stay in your way of getting whatever done? the ports, no. A bad keyboard (as in unreliable), yes. I don't think the new keyboards are bad, they're just easily affected by dust. No, dust doesn't break them, but they are affected and you need to clean them. If it happens often, well, you've got a problem.

I liked the octopus metaphor. Not looking for an octopus. But when I connect something, I don’t want to have to hunt and attach a precariously extending appendage every time to where one slight shift could crack it or break my port. Or attach a leash to the appendage and...have octopus spaghetti on my lap. I want to just plug in. And I don’t do the majority of my work in one location hosting a basket of adapters.

If Apple is going to be so narrowminded about things like storage and ram upgradability, I want a port to leave my jet drive light SD card plugged 24/7, and not need to constantly connect/disconnect it. That’s just me, who values that type of convenience over .5 mm less thickness. And maybe many others.

Perhaps the biggest issue is Apple designing laptops as if everyone wants a MB-like minimalist experience. Perhaps THAT is the real issue here. Their one-time strength and market-breaking differentiator is starting to create more pains than gains for some, slowly becoming a caricature. Lousy keyboards, zero upgradability to get more than 5 years, port/convenience minimalization....if OSX were available via other vendors, one could only imagine the exodus from Apple laptops in their current state.

”ionutc, post: 27119600, member: 1069813"]But how many people are vociferously complaining? like 50 on this forum?

People generally vote with their wallet. With no non-Apple computer vendors, we’ll never know if it’s only 50 macrumors members in the world who are unhappy enough to complain and who would vote with their wallet by buying an OS X-capable laptop with a hardware configuration that much better fits their needs. Apple’s laptop offerings to consumers would be not too different than the world’s automakers offering only Minis and Clubmans, but with no hinged hood for easy access to the working parts. Does it help them force change? Yes. Is their vision of change the way it should be? Apparently not to at least 50 macrumors members. Nobody here can say Apple’s decisions are great unless they mean Apple’s decisions are great for their personal usage style. That’s it. But what anyone here should be able to say without backlash is take it or leave it.

 

[Ricky ZZ]

Apple should omit the touchbar, and more importantly the keyboard, as both are useless.

 

[john123]

I think it's a fair assessment (that long comment) and yes, people have the right to complain. But how many people are vociferously complaining? like 50 on this forum? There was a guy who wants a lot o ports so he can sit with his MBP on his lap. Would you sit with an octopous in your lap? maybe not, but that guy would. Another chap said a dock full of ports is not a practical solution because you know, you have to carry it around - but you don't, because it should stay where the peripherals are.
The question is: does it stay in your way of getting whatever done? the ports, no. A bad keyboard (as in unreliable), yes. I don't think the new keyboards are bad, they're just easily affected by dust. No, dust doesn't break them, but they are affected and you need to clean them. If it happens often, well, you've got a problem.

It’s not just the people on the boards. You’ll find plenty of (technical) news articles and opinion pieces on reputable sites talking about this one. That’s the reason I mentioned Guy Kawasaki’s post on LinkedIn from the other day.

My personal critique, again, and the reason most of the historical comparisons are inaccurate, is that this was a false choice. Including legacy ports in addition to USB-C while it was (and still is) in its nascency would have been a simple win-win. And arguments about I/O are a red herring for nearly all users. But Apple chose to prioritize form over function. The same holds true for the damn keyboard. I’m glad you like it, but I hate the feel and the noise—and I’m not alone.

People often think that new and different is by definition forward progress. That isn’t always the case. (Cough...New Coke...cough.) The expression “they don’t make ‘em like they used to” is common across a number of products in many industries for good reason.

 

[Tozovac]

And arguments about I/O are a red herring for nearly all users. But Apple chose to prioritize form over function. The same holds true for the damn keyboard. I’m glad you like it, but I hate the feel and the noise—and I’m not alone.

People often think that new and different is by definition forward progress. That isn’t always the case. (Cough...New Coke...cough.) The expression “they don’t make ‘em like they used to” is common across a number of products in many industries for good reason.

Ios7 and much of Flat and Material Design, cough cough, spit, gag, eye roll, puke.

 

[MrUNIMOG]

It’s not just the people on the boards. You’ll find plenty of (technical) news articles and opinion pieces on reputable sites talking about this one. That’s the reason I mentioned Guy Kawasaki’s post on LinkedIn from the other day.

My personal critique, again, and the reason most of the historical comparisons are inaccurate, is that this was a false choice. Including legacy ports in addition to USB-C while it was (and still is) in its nascency would have been a simple win-win. And arguments about I/O are a red herring for nearly all users. But Apple chose to prioritize form over function. The same holds true for the damn keyboard. I’m glad you like it, but I hate the feel and the noise—and I’m not alone.

People often think that new and different is by definition forward progress. That isn’t always the case. (Cough...New Coke...cough.) The expression “they don’t make ‘em like they used to” is common across a number of products in many industries for good reason.

You have not yet stated a reason why the historical comparisons are inaccurate.

Wouldn't including legacy ports on the 1998 iMac in addition to USB-A have been a simple win-win by your logic too then? I think the historical comparison to the first iMac or every past MBP design change hold up pretty well.

 

[john123]

You have not yet stated a reason why the historical comparisons are inaccurate.

Wouldn't including legacy ports on the 1998 iMac in addition to USB-A have been a simple win-win by your logic too then? I think the historical comparison to the first iMac or every past MBP design change hold up pretty well.

As I keep saying, the difference is the existence of the win-win scenario. If it really were an either/or decision, and/or we'd reached a tipping point (even an early one), that would be different.

But this change is less like a well-thought out innovation and more like, well,

But sure, let's look at the 1998 iMac. I owned the previously released Power Mac G3, so I actually love this example!

1) Apple continued to sell the Power Mac G3. In fact, it was marketed more toward professionals, like the Quadra series before it, while the iMac was targeted more for home and education use. All we're really talking about here is SCSI, and not a lot of people had external SCSI stuff required.

2) Apple replaced the connectors on the things you'd connect everyday—the keyboard and the mouse—with the appropriate connections. (i.e., ADB moved seamlessly to USB.) That made the transition for your everyday stuff seamless.

3) For everything else, you're talking about a time over 2 decades ago when external peripherals weren't as much of a thing period for personal computing. The big exception was serial-connected printers. And that wasn't an issue.

4) Those of us who are bemoaning the current state of affairs are doing so because of the mobile experience and inconvenience here. The iMac, despite the handle, wasn't exactly a mobile computer. I don't give a darn about a mountain of cables behind something that never moves. Today, we have phones, tablets, SD cards, and portable hard drives that we plug and unplug at will. That's the hassle. And again, it's an unnecessary hassle—a tradeoff made primarily to keep the device thinner and sleeker.

 

[theluggage]

The fact is, there are only SO many PCI-e "lanes" on the CPUs. That forms an "I/O Budget" that is not easily ignored or expanded.

Aside: have you found any data on how many I/O lanes the various Macs have? I know the processors in the 15" MBPs have 16 PCIe lanes but AFAIK in machines with dGPUs, that accounts for all 16 of them. As I understand it, the chipset has a bunch of "fast I/O lanes" which can be configured by the system builder into various permutations of PCIe, SSD-optimised PCIe, SATA and USB 2/3. That makes it very hard to second-guess how the 'I/O budget' affects these decisions.

Apple COULD have WASTED the total available bandwidth available on those Lanes, by "trapping" some of it in maybe seldom-used legacy Ports

Except that cuts both ways - on my 2017 iMac I'm currently "wasting" both TB3 ports, with potentially 40Gbps of i/o bandwidth between them, because they're both hooked up to DisplayPort displays. The GPU can support multiple simultaneous DP or HDMI outputs - and even more non-simultaneously - so there's no reason for having to trade display outputs for I/O lanes other than to save a couple of miniDP ports. Sure - there's various TB3 hubs and dual-display adapters that will help - for $100-$400 - but they still involve using some of your TB3 bandwidth to carry DisplayPort signals that could have come direct from the GPU. Overall, though, the iMac situation is much better than the MBP - because they kept the existing USB-A, SD and Ethernet ports and added the extra flexibility of 2xTB3 ports - the result is certainly an improvement on the 2015 iMac.

...in the case of the MBP, a HDMI port wouldn't affect the i/o budget, Magsafe wouldn't affect the i/o budget, and one PCIe lane could easily drive a brace of USB-A/3.1g1 ports.

NOTHING, but NOTHING will satisfy EVERYONE.

...and one of the ways to deal with that is compromise. Which doesn't mean "do what I want and everybody else can compromise". By going all-TB3/USB-C they've satisfied those people who want "morrre bandwidth!!! thinnerrrr!!!" at the expense of almost everybody else.

To repeat: what most people are realistically asking for is the 2015 port configuration (Magsafe + 2xTB2 + 2xUSB3 + HDMI + SD) with the TB2 ports updated to TB3/USB-C - you'd get 40Gbps of TB3 i/o (and no need to 'spend' any of it on USB2/3 or HDMI), you'd still have the single-cable dock option and meanwhile people with a shedload of USB2/3 devices and an established collection of Magsafe chargers wouldn't be forced onto hubs and dongles... with the bonus that if they did get a couple of adapters they could have two extra USB ports...

 

[atikalz]

You should get new cables then, or maybe adapter(s) for the stuff you still want to use. Not everybody wants to plug everything into a laptop and even so, if you want to be able to plug anything you would still need an adapter no matter what laptop you choose.

Or I stick to my 2015 mbp. All ports I need in there. And by the way. HDMI, Display Port and of course usb a are still standard today. Even Apple is shipping their flagship phones only with usb a cable!!

 

[kyykesko]

Of course I talk about portability like it’s a huge deal and 99% of the travel on my laptop is from home to office and back with workstations set up in both locations. I’m hardly doing the road warrior thing with my 13”, lol.

It's ok as long as you understand some of us actually carry their computers around everywhere. I'm dragging around my 15" because it's the smallest Mac that gets my job done. I wouldn't mind an actual Pro version with a battery fit for a computer, not a pocket calculator so I could REALLY work. Now I've got a huge external battery I'm forced to drag around which makes the Macbook Pro 15" the heaviest computer I've ever had to carry around. Still, I have to pay the price because I need to be able to work full day in various locations, usually without a power supply nearby.

Personally I have zero interest in a 16-16,5" machine. That being said, if they actually fit a laptop-sized battery instead of these pocket calculator ones OR a good keyboard instead of this butterfly crap, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. That is, unless they come up with something similar in a smaller form factor. 15" is ideal for me, and I don't care how thick it is. It can't be heavier than my current setup.

 

[MacsRuleOthersDrool]

The removal of hardware-based things like MagSafe, headphone jacks, usb-A and then having to buy, tote, and dangle something from your so-called all-in-one portable device just isn’t that palatable still for many.

Too bad.

It seems like Apple isn't the only one now offering USB-C ONLY (mostly WITHOUT TB3!) for I/O. So, you are going to be drowned-out by the advancing hordes of USB-C Users.

I don't have an easy, "internal-ish" solution for the JetDrive.

I understand what you say about not wanting "appendages" ("solid" USB-C <-> USB-A Adapters); so, perhaps for your "Couch" Application, these "flexible" USB-A <-> USB-C Adapters would work better, because they would be no more "appendage-y" than having a USB-A connector plugged in directly. These are 2 for $8, (or 2 for $10 when they go off-sale) :

https://www.amazon.com/Syntech-Adapter-Thunderbolt-Compatible-MacBook/dp/B077FY7831/

That way, you can plug in your HDD, your iPad, and your SD Card Stick, and still have one USB-C/TB3 Port left over for your AC Charger. That is honestly no more inconvenient (other than the SD Slot, which only ever existed on a few MacBook years/models) than "the good old days".

But personally, I'd still recommend opting for a SMALL Dock instead (no video, no Ethernet, just USB-A and SD Slot), just for your Couch Computing. Only one USB-C is taken-up, only one cable is tethering you (which, you have to admit, is MUCH better than THREE cables (Power, HDD and iPad)), and you can stash your actual "Ports" over on the coffee-table/side-table next to where you are working. Your Duet-display and HDD HAVE to go SOMEWHERE; so I am guessing they aren't actually bouncing-around on the couch with you, right? And this nice little $13 USB-C Extension Cable, at 3 ft., is not too short, and not too long, for that type of application. Just plug the Extension cable into the MBP, and the other end into the Dock's "pigtail", and off you go! BTW, they also make 6ft, 10ft, and longer USB-C cables, but then either the data-rates start to fall, or they are "active" and get closer to $50...

https://www.amazon.com/Faracent-Extension-Charging-Nintendo-Touchbar/dp/B071DMMW4J/

...and an example of a $40 "Mini-Dock" that has what you need for your Couch Computing. Unfortunately, ALL of them with an SD/TF Slot and USB-C Charging Port also have an HDMI output; but just don't use it:

https://www.amazon.com/Premium-HyperDrive-TIWANC-Charging-Chromebook/dp/B07MD833SJ

Or this may be more to your liking. SIX USB-A Ports, SD/TF Slot, USB-C Power Port, (and HDMI) :

https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-Adapter-Charging-MacBook-Chromebook/dp/B07GB2CXW8/


Of course, if you'd rather just handle the Power Delivery directly from the AC Adapter to the MBP, and do the SD/TF Slot with one of those cool "SD/TF Memory Stick" Devices, then here is a simple, LITTLE $15 USB-C to 4 Port USB-A Hub:

https://www.amazon.com/WAVLINK-Aluminum-MacBook-Chromebook-Pixelbook/dp/B017N3KNP8/


So, there are some PRACTICAL solutions for your "couch computing" needs, considering your use-case.

Hope this helps!
[doublepost=1550867126][/doublepost]

Gotta love the people who think the best choice for them personally is the best choice for all people.

...and the same can be said for the "USB-C Bad" crowd, too.

 

[KPandian1]

...and one of the ways to deal with that is compromise. Which doesn't mean "do what I want and everybody else can compromise". By going all-TB3/USB-C they've satisfied those people who want "morrre bandwidth!!! thinnerrrr!!!" at the expense of almost everybody else.

what most people are realistically asking for is the 2015 port configuration (Magsafe + 2xTB2 + 2xUSB3 + HDMI + SD) with the TB2 ports updated to TB3/USB-C - you'd get 40Gbps of TB3 i/o (and no need to 'spend' any of it on USB2/3 or HDMI), you'd still have the single-cable dock option and meanwhile people with a shedload of USB2/3 devices and an established collection of Magsafe chargers wouldn't be forced onto hubs and dongles...

This is what we want - and the defenders of Apple's virtue are slaying us for asking!

Every port in my 2015 MacBook Pro has its own PCIe parent rationed by PCH; it is a laptop and not a well ventilated desk top. Maybe one TB port will suffer.

Four USB-C ports will not work all at once at full steam.

Five ports in the previous generation, plus the MagSafe! PCIe lanes are fine in regular use in these MacBooks because PCH has been regulating these for nearly a decade.

PCIe channels controlled by PCH - is that not relevant in this discussion?

 

[MacsRuleOthersDrool]

Four USB-C ports will not work all at once at full steam

No, the two ports on a particular side share 40 Gb/s of I/O bandwidth. So, used as TB3 Ports, they have to split their bandwidth; but as USB-C Ports (which is actually USB 3.1 gen2, IIRC), both Ports on a particular side can run at full-speed (10 Gb/s), with bandwidth to spare for DP, I think.

I agree that it is pretty damned confusing to figure out what the exact "bandwidth provisioning" is for each Port for each downstream use; but AFAICT, what I said above is true for the 2016-2018 15" MBPs, and the 2018 13" MBP as well.
[doublepost=1550868381][/doublepost]

Aside: have you found any data on how many I/O lanes the various Macs have? I know the processors in the 15" MBPs have 16 PCIe lanes but AFAIK in machines with dGPUs, that accounts for all 16 of them. As I understand it, the chipset has a bunch of "fast I/O lanes" which can be configured by the system builder into various permutations of PCIe, SSD-optimised PCIe, SATA and USB 2/3. That makes it very hard to second-guess how the 'I/O budget' affects these decisions.

Honestly, no.

I don't have money for ANY new Macs right now; so I haven't looked THAT closely into this most-confusing subject, sorry!

 

[LordVic]

I think it's a fair assessment (that long comment) and yes, people have the right to complain. But how many people are vociferously complaining? like 50 on this forum? There was a guy who wants a lot o ports so he can sit with his MBP on his lap. Would you sit with an octopous in your lap? maybe not, but that guy would. Another chap said a dock full of ports is not a practical solution because you know, you have to carry it around - but you don't, because it should stay where the peripherals are.
The question is: does it stay in your way of getting whatever done? the ports, no. A bad keyboard (as in unreliable), yes. I don't think the new keyboards are bad, they're just easily affected by dust. No, dust doesn't break them, but they are affected and you need to clean them. If it happens often, well, you've got a problem.

forum discussions really don't tell much since we tend to the loudest cause we care

There are however places we can look to get an understanding of the consumer acceptance of the technological direction Apple is taking and that's via volumes of units sold and market trends.

as of Q4 2018, apple's MAC sales have declined to their 2010 levels and has essentially been flat with a modest decline since mid 2016.

I'm not sure this is direct evidence, but it does lead to conjuncture that the overall market is not satisfied or happy with the offerings Apple has been delivering since 2016 and since this isn't just a single quarter's worth of information but over a years worth of declines, it sets up a trend that Apple's direction is not being well received by the greater more silent audience of potential users who are just, going elsewhere with their money.

 

[Thebrightestday]

I’d like to see:

• Touchscreen keyboard (if i got used to, and think butterfly is better, I could easily swith to touchscreen keyboard like the one on my ipad)
• Ion wind cooling (I think cooling any device with a hardware fan is ridiculous in 2019, and unnecesary noisy. Especially for all audio projects)
• Smaller bezel - if you can make it on iphone (and even curved one like Samsung) you can do it for laptop

 

[LordVic]

Too bad.

It seems like Apple isn't the only one now offering USB-C ONLY (mostly WITHOUT TB3!) for I/O. So, you are going to be drowned-out by the advancing hordes of USB-C Users.

I don't have an easy, "internal-ish" solution for the JetDrive.

I understand what you say about not wanting "appendages" ("solid" USB-C <-> USB-A Adapters); so, perhaps for your "Couch" Application, these "flexible" USB-A <-> USB-C Adapters would work better, because they would be no more "appendage-y" than having a USB-A connector plugged in directly. These are 2 for $8, (or 2 for $10 when they go off-sale) :

https://www.amazon.com/Syntech-Adapter-Thunderbolt-Compatible-MacBook/dp/B077FY7831/

That way, you can plug in your HDD, your iPad, and your SD Card Stick, and still have one USB-C/TB3 Port left over for your AC Charger. That is honestly no more inconvenient (other than the SD Slot, which only ever existed on a few MacBook years/models) than "the good old days".

But personally, I'd still recommend opting for a SMALL Dock instead (no video, no Ethernet, just USB-A and SD Slot), just for your Couch Computing. Only one USB-C is taken-up, only one cable is tethering you (which, you have to admit, is MUCH better than THREE cables (Power, HDD and iPad)), and you can stash your actual "Ports" over on the coffee-table/side-table next to where you are working. Your Duet-display and HDD HAVE to go SOMEWHERE; so I am guessing they aren't actually bouncing-around on the couch with you, right? And this nice little $13 USB-C Extension Cable, at 3 ft., is not too short, and not too long, for that type of application. Just plug the Extension cable into the MBP, and the other end into the Dock's "pigtail", and off you go! BTW, they also make 6ft, 10ft, and longer USB-C cables, but then either the data-rates start to fall, or they are "active" and get closer to $50...

https://www.amazon.com/Faracent-Extension-Charging-Nintendo-Touchbar/dp/B071DMMW4J/

...and an example of a $40 "Mini-Dock" that has what you need for your Couch Computing. Unfortunately, ALL of them with an SD/TF Slot and USB-C Charging Port also have an HDMI output; but just don't use it:

https://www.amazon.com/Premium-HyperDrive-TIWANC-Charging-Chromebook/dp/B07MD833SJ

Or this may be more to your liking. SIX USB-A Ports, SD/TF Slot, USB-C Power Port, (and HDMI) :

https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-Adapter-Charging-MacBook-Chromebook/dp/B07GB2CXW8/


Of course, if you'd rather just handle the Power Delivery directly from the AC Adapter to the MBP, and do the SD/TF Slot with one of those cool "SD/TF Memory Stick" Devices, then here is a simple, LITTLE $15 USB-C to 4 Port USB-A Hub:

https://www.amazon.com/WAVLINK-Aluminum-MacBook-Chromebook-Pixelbook/dp/B017N3KNP8/


So, there are some PRACTICAL solutions for your "couch computing" needs, considering your use-case.

Hope this helps!
[doublepost=1550867126][/doublepost]
...and the same can be said for the "USB-C Bad" crowd, too.

lets put it this way.

previous gen: had all those ports included in the device. no dongles really needed

new gen, removes all those ports, and to get them back, you have to pay more money... on a laptop that already costs more than the previous gen with all those ports.

I for one, welcome USB-C. I however, think Apple's method is driven by profiteering and greed and NOT whats best for the user. there was no technical reason for not including a single USB-A device for the transition period, other than "we want to sell more stuff that we used to include".

so your solution to "just shut up and buy more stuff" is laughable, and quite honestly, expected from you.

 

[MacsRuleOthersDrool]

lets put it this way.

previous gen: had all those ports included in the device. no dongles really needed

new gen, removes all those ports, and to get them back, you have to pay more money... on a laptop that already costs more than the previous gen with all those ports.

I for one, welcome USB-C. I however, think Apple's method is driven by profiteering and greed and NOT whats best for the user. there was no technical reason for not including a single USB-A device for the transition period, other than "we want to sell more stuff that we used to include".

so your solution to "just shut up and buy more stuff" is laughable, and quite honestly, expected from you.

Other than the very few Mac Laptops that have intrinsic HDMI, Apple Laptop users have HAD to use a "Dongle" for External Display connections for SEVERAL years now. (And this is true of much of the Windows Laptop world, too).

Why is that "acceptable", but expanding (no pun) that concept onto the other "Legacy" Ports by use of a relatively inexpensive Dock is not? I am asking a serious question and expect a serious answer.

And I'm not saying "Shut up and buy more stuff"; rather, I am saying that, rather than whining "Muh Portz haz been gone!", at least TRY to understand that there are TRADEOFFS in EVERY Design Decision. Apple figured that the best way to "future proof" the I/O, as well as provide for the largest envelope of "use-cases", that an all USB-C/TB3 Design was the way to go. And I (obviously) agree with them.

For the next couple of years, it will be a little kludgy-seeming; but if you keep your Mac Laptops as long as most people do, you will be LOVING these "damned USB-C Ports" more and more, not less and less, as time goes on. But in 5 years, your USB-A ports will see very little use, and would amount to "wasted I/O bandwidth". Not so much for the USB-C...

And your PARANOID RANT of "I however, think Apple's method is driven by profiteering and greed and NOT whats best for the user. there was no technical reason for not including a single USB-A device for the transition period, other than "we want to sell more stuff that we used to include", is utterly laughable, and, if you indeed REALLY believe it, somewhat sad. Why? Because in NO WAY does APPLE "Profit" from this change!!! You will notice that, other than a few basic Adapters (basically just USB-C versions of the Display and Ethernet Adapters Apple has ALWAYS offered, with only one or two inexpensive cables offered for completeness-sake), Apple hasn't jumped AT ALL into the "USB-C Dock" game. MOST of the "Adapter and Dongle" business is going to AMAZON and the like, NOT APPLE. Heck, they didn't even get into the "USB-C Mag-Safe" game, which they could have made Beaucoups money on, by pretty much a 1:1 sales of those for each new MBP.

And as I said, there actually WAS a "Technical Reason" for not including a single USB-A port on these laptops: Limited PCIe lanes on the CPU.

Stop acting like everything Apple does is to screw the User. It's childish and ridiculous.

And patently false.

 

[john123]

...and the same can be said for the "USB-C Bad" crowd, too.

Except NO ONE said “USB-C Bad.”

The more you type, the more it seems you really know you’re trying to defend the indefensible.
[doublepost=1550871797][/doublepost]Also this is so darned hilarious that I need to quote the relevant sections again. In order:

Yes it did; or any particular user runs the risk of wasted I/O POTENTIAL.

Aside: have you found any data on how many I/O lanes the various Macs have? I know the processors in the 15" MBPs have 16 PCIe lanes but AFAIK in machines with dGPUs, that accounts for all 16 of them. As I understand it, the chipset has a bunch of "fast I/O lanes" which can be configured by the system builder into various permutations of PCIe, SSD-optimised PCIe, SATA and USB 2/3. That makes it very hard to second-guess how the 'I/O budget' affects these decisions.

Honestly, no.

I don't have money for ANY new Macs right now; so I haven't looked THAT closely into this most-confusing subject, sorry!

Followed by...

And as I said, there actually WAS a "Technical Reason" for not including a single USB-A port on these laptops: Limited PCIe lanes on the CPU.

So ahem yeah. Putting aside the fact that for 95%+ of users, it wouldn't matter anyway...you assert something, get called out, admit you have no data, and then go back to re-asserting the highly speculative and unsupported thing you alleged.

Brilliant!

 

[MacsRuleOthersDrool]

So ahem yeah. Putting aside the fact that for 95%+ of users, it wouldn't matter anyway..

88% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

Seems we're both guilty of "speculation as fact".

At least I ADMIT when I don't know. That's the difference between you and me.

 

[john123]

88% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

Seems we're both guilty of "speculation as fact".

At least I ADMIT when I don't know. That's the difference between you and me.

Wrong again! I have a background in market research and have done client studies on computing and device utilization, including peripherals. I didn't pluck the 95% number out of thin air. It was a conservative estimate. I'm quite comfortable saying that less than 1 in 20 users would think that a minor IO reduction "matters." My ballpark estimate would actually be the 2% range.

Keep coming. This is delightful.

 

[john123]

Client data is just that: client data. They pay for it, and it's rarely made public. I challenge you to find evidence suggesting more than 1 in 20 people need 10Gbps. Go ahead. I'll wait.

Not that it matters. That’s why I prefaced this little side discussion with the words “putting aside.” It’s pretty irrelevant to the main thrust here. So let’s get back to that.

I'm sorry that no amount of linking dongles from Amazon and typing novels will change the core facts:

Fact 1: Many users find the removal of USB-A ports inconvenient.
Fact 2: Removing those “legacy” USB connections was technologically not required, and many current laptops have both sets of poets.
Fact 3: You can say "get over it" all you want, but no one is required to do so, and thanks to this wonderful thing called freedom of expression, we can complain about the situation all day long! And we will.

In conclusion, I’ll defer again to the infamous Guy Kawasaki: