Only "dongle" I bought after seeing this on my MacBook Pro's specs - simultaneously.
Just change the TB2X2 to USB-CX2 - thank you very much. Put one on each side - just to amuse yourself!
USB-C is the future - when they control the cables.
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16-Inch MacBook Pro With All-New Design Expected in 2019, 13-Inch Model May Gain 32GB RAM
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Only "dongle" I bought after seeing this on my MacBook Pro's specs - simultaneously.
Just change the TB2X2 to USB-CX2 - thank you very much. Put one on each side - just to amuse yourself!
USB-C is the future - when they control the cables.
Only "dongle" I bought after seeing this on my MacBook Pro's specs - simultaneously.
Just change the TB2X2 to USB-CX2 - thank you very much. Put one on each side - just to amuse yourself!
USB-C is the future - when they control the cables.
The configuration you just described is exactly the one I've espoused previously.
This would be a perfect bridge computer to last 3-5 years, at which point USB-C will be more ubiquitous and universal, no pun intended.
Change for the sake of change just isn't very compelling.
This random old guy had it right:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/drewha...ve-jobs-did-listen-to-customers/#5e945c5087f3
With the reliability of the keyboard and price to replace it (with battery and top case), I bet they will do another redesign soon. It’s too unreliable and expensive to fix.
Odd. MR seems to have *’d it out for some reason.
Here’s a different version of the same thing:
https://www.google.com/search?q=usb-c+MagSafe
Hopefully this one works. And I’ve updated the original comment with that also.
Every time I’ve looked into these, the reviews have always been between poor to “works ok but definitely nowhere near as good as original MagSafe.” Is there a brand you’ve had good luck with?
Honestly, working MagSafe would be enough to get me to PROBABLY turn this 2017 15” from a paperweight into something I use, despite how much I loathe the hub and dongle situation, the keyboard, and the TouchBar. There’s no denying the performance boost.
I think the ONLY think they should keep is the Touch ID button like they did with the MacBook Air.
Touch ID is nice indeed.
The TouchBar on the other hand is a steaming pile of you-know-what. It's a classic case of "we have this technology so let's shoehorn it in" — which is the exact kind of thing Jobs railed against. No doubt, easy customization is a feature, but the losses and tradeoffs are simply too large.
Get customizable LED icons into keys with (good) tactile response, and then we're talkin'. I've used FunctionFlip for years to make the function keys do what I want, and proper support for that kind of functionality (rather than a fantastic hack, which FF is) would be a real benefit.
The really pathetic thing is that this stuff is all Design 101.
if Apple had added the touchbar as an additional row above the F keys, I think the feeling around it would be completely different. it would be an Additive feature.
however, replacing the physical keys with forced touchbar integration as mandatory is the mistake.
People use the function keys for more than just brightness/volume adjusting. taking them away for the touchbar does nothing to help those peoples workflows.
I know in my brief playing around with one it made my life a miserable hell. I spent a LOT of time in VIM using function keys. And REQUIRE the ability to touch type use the ESC key. the MBpro w/ touchbar, due to this, they keyboard to me is literally unusable.
Agreed. I also have a miserable time using it to debug JavaScript in Chrome. I’ve tried to configure everything to what I think makes sense, but it’s such a nuisance. I now just click on the stepping buttons
I can touch type pretty easy with the function keys but because it’s all on a display it makes it very hard to do that. If Apple puts physical function keys back in and doesn’t put in other stupid features that no one asks for, I would actually think about replacing my 2016 mbp.
Unfortunately, that ship sailed in 2016 and I do not seeing it changing.
PCIe channels controlled by PCH - is that not relevant in this discussion?
Intel's 45w TDP H-Series have x16 lanes of PCIe 3.0 on the CPU itself, of which x8 are assigned to the GPU and x4 + x4 are assigned to the two Alpine Ridge or Titan Ridge TB3 controllers. The PCH in the 2016 MacBook Pro (CM236) has x20 lanes of PCIe 3.0 of which at least x4 is being used by the PCIe storage along with some additional lane for the various and sundry items that need PCIe bandwidth, which then communicates with the CPU via an 8GT/s DMI 3.0 bus. This applies to the 15” model only.
The 28w TDP U-Series used in the 13” MacBook Pro now have x16 lanes on the CPU (up from x12) of PCIe 3.0 along with a built-in PCH, the CPU lanes are assigned x4 + x4 PCIe lanes used by the 2 TB3 controllers and x4 used by the PCIe storage.
The built-in PCH handles any of the other devices (Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, keyboard, T1, et al.)
I suspect Apple thought about a mixed port setup, but decided against it for a couple of reasons -
1) Making all four (4) ports the same with the same capabilities simplifies things for users in Apple’s eyes.
2) Apple wants to insure that Thunderbolt 3 AND USB-C are both able to get themselves established instead of people simply ignoring them in favor of using USB 3 ports which is now the absolute lowest common denominator port.
Apple may also have data that suggested that the reason Thunderbolt 1/2 never took off the way they wanted had to do with lack of familiarity as the port resembled Mini DisplayPort and some customers failed to realize the port’s actual capabilities.
In Apple’s eyes, the current port arrangement allows users to have more USB ports if their workflow trends more that way or more Thunderbolt 3 ports if they are power users along with a 25/75, 50/50 or 75/25 split. I agree with this approach as each port is now a peer to every other port, the device can be charged from either side and the user can mix and match peripherals to create a machine deeply customized to their particular needs.
The flip side is that one area that Apple really does need to do a MUCH better job in is educating consumers and especially its Apple Store staff about how USB-C and Thunderbolt 3 work, the benefits and how to create economical solutions, alternative workflows and setups that minimize a user’s discomfort with the change and keeping the cost of making the change low when they decide to upgrade. Right now, even Apple Store staff are uncomfortable with USB-C/TB3 based on my anecdotal people watching during Genius Bar appointments.
You also have to realize that most customers do not care about the inner workings of USB-C/TB3 or their strengths/weaknesses from a perf perspective.
What they care about is:
A) Why don’t my existing peripherals work?
B) I have to spend more money on a dock/adapter?
C) I have to carry an adapter with me wherever I go?
Wild. I wasn’t aware that such a workaround existed. Have you tried them, and are they any good? I’m guessing they don’t charge us quickly, but I’m curious how much of a drop off there is.
And in a bizarre way, I think Apple thought that having all 4 matching ports that are primarily identified as USB-C, especially on the PC side of the fence, that at least it would connect with customers.
*****
The answers to their questions should be:
A) Your existing peripherals will work but may require a new cable to connect to your computer, please tell me what peripherals you need to connect?
B) Depending on how many peripherals you need to connect to your computer, you may need a dock, but this really is not any different from how you may have worked with the 2012-2015 MacBook Pros and in many cases, you can connect an existing Thunderbolt 2 dock using a TB3<->TB2, preserving your existing investment.
If you do not currently have a dock, you have options, but first, let’s see if you would benefit from one.
C) Not necessarily...do you carry a wired mouse or a USB 2/3 flash drive with you? If you do, then you may need a USB-C to USB-A adapter.
Do you connect to HDMI devices frequently? If so you may need to purchase a USB-C to HDMI cable.
Do you carry a USB hard drive with you? If you do, and the cable is removable, then a simple USB-C to USB 3.0 Type B cable can be purchased from Amazon for $7.99.
*****
These are by no means the end all, be all of everyone's circumstances, so Apple Store personnnel need adequate training if they have not already received it.
This sort of training is no different than training personnel to deal with the change from Touch ID to Face ID.
Apple should always be making sure that it is adequately educating employees about Macs as much as they do about iPhones. Moving the iPad Pro to USB-C makes this education doubly important. If Apple is not, then someone needs a kick in the ass in the C Suite.
I actually don't see how having all 4 plugs as USB-C will connect to the average consumer.
Part of the problem I think from an average consumer's perspective is that people cling onto their older devices/plugs a lot longer now. I still have USB-A plugs for ext. hard drive and what not. I don't really *need* to upgrade my devices unless I was passively forced to. With only USB-C on 2016 MBPs, I felt it was a bit premature at the time to force as those USB-C docks weren't exactly anywhere close to being ubiquitous. A lot of the 2016 MBP competitors had USB-C plugs along with the former "legacy" ports, so that customers can slowly adopt.
I do think now that the industry has of course shifted more towards USB-C. There are still many core devices being released that only have USB-A plugs, but you can tell now that the camp that was heavily opposed to USB-C is starting to embrace it a little more.
-----It'll be interesting to see how this plays out, but I'm already pretty much sold on getting an HP Book 17 G5, swapping a few components out, and seeing about making it a Hackintosh. The only dongle I might need for that is one for FireWire 400/800; that machine even still has an optical drive.
my
my 2009 MBP 17" is still kicking..but had to uopgrade the hard drive recently 80gb is not enough.. lol. and software is no longer updatable. but i'm still using it. wonder if apple saw that theres many of us that don't want to part with our 17" and are waiting. I also LOVE my illuminating apple, and it better have a 10 key too, don't you dare give me a MBP with no 10key, that alone is the reason why I havnt bought another Mac Laptop and the reason i'm on a 17" HP right now id like to see it come back to Apple laptops.
my 2009 MBP 17" is still kicking..but had to uopgrade the hard drive recently 80gb is not enough.. lol. and software is no longer updatable. but i'm still using it. wonder if apple saw that theres many of us that don't want to part with our 17" and are waiting. I also LOVE my illuminating apple, and it better have a 10 key too, don't you dare give me a MBP with no 10key, that alone is the reason why I havnt bought another Mac Laptop and the reason i'm on a 17" HP right now id like to see it come back to Apple laptops.
I don't see the 10 key returning. Hopefully, I am wrong because you need to repent and stop using that HP right away. Come back to the light.
We’re not slaying you for asking. We’re telling you it’s not going to happen, and we’re trying to help you see that and move into the future. We’re all just tired of you whining about it non stop when it’s not going to achieve anything.
Apple has always pushed the envelope forwards. That’s what they did with all the other examples given. You’ve tried to discredit those examples and say that they’re different but in essence they really aren’t.
“Get over it” isn’t our heartless “we don’t care”. If it was we wouldn’t be presenting you with the myriads of alternate solutions. Instead it’s recognzing that this is and always has been Apple’s way, that some of us prefer it this way because of how it pushes the industry forward, and trying to get you guys to realize that and go with it instead of sitting around whining about it (which won’t achieve anything).
One other point. This idea that most people want it to stay the old way is wrong. No, a minority of loud MR readers and similar want it to stay the old way, but the number of normal people (who aren’t as married to the OS as we MR readers are) who are buying these things instead of jumping ship to windows or whatever else testifies that most people are happy.
Rant all you want. We’ve heard it all non stop for nearly three years now. It’s not going to change anything, including our minds.
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Actually, all this hooha about not enough bandwidth for DP is missing an important point - at least if I recall correctly.
I can’t seem to find it now but I’m sure I read somewhere that Thunderbolt 3 is split. It’s actually a separate 32Gbps for data and 8Gbps for video. That’s the spec. It’s never shared or bottlenecked or whatever. That is, if I recall correctly. If anyone else can find confirmation (or correction) on this I’d be grateful.
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Y’know this “that was a lot of unnecessary typing” is condescending and unhelpful. He’s trying to be informative and productive and you’re just blindly dismissing, and insulting, his efforts.
I’m sure he read that you have a 2017 MBP sitting under your desk not being used. Why? If you don’t want or use it and you already had a perfectly good MBP that meets your needs why did you buy it? If you can’t return it, sell it and get some of your money back. If you say you’re just leaving it sitting there without using or selling it then I call BS. That whole line of reasoning and your condescending attitude to his efforts to help question your credibility.
I actually don’t think he read. That’s the point. Too much typing and not enough reading.
It really is sitting there. It’s a backup and basically a local postgres machine.
I did read and I have read the responses from so many users on this forum whose sole mission in life, it seems, is to complain about how Apple is/was/has been and forever will be screwing them over by taking away their MagSafe, USB-A ports, SD Card slot and HDMI port.
But Apple has released three (3) iterations of both the 13" and 15" MacBook Pro with no retreat on the ports offered and doubled down (quardupled down?) with the release of the 13" MacBook Air in October.
Your argument has been that it did not have to be this way, and while I readily acknowledge that it probably did not, that an interim step could have been to replace the Thunderbolt 2 ports on the 2015 MacBook Pro with TB3 to help ease users into USB-C, that is not what Apple chose to do. By this time in 2019, arguing about whether it had to be this way or how Apple needs to put those ports back on the rumored 16"/16.5" MacBook Pro is futile and pointless. Apple very seldom retreats on these things and the iPad Pro going USB-C last year drives home the point even more. It is done, it is over, it is time to move on or move over (to Windows).
As Detnator pointed out in his post, my "Get over it" post is not because I lack empathy, but because in nearly every thread I have participated where the MacBook Pro was the subject breaks down the exact same way as this thread has. The Legacy Port Contingent starts with their wishlist of things that need to be put back in the next MacBook Pro and the USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 Admiration Society extolls the virtues of what Apple has done and it proceeds to devolve rapidly. I, along with many others, have offered genuine solutions to as many problems as we can, while listening to people who seemed determined to cling to the old ways or else they will go buy Windows and then the Mac will die because they left. At this point, I would say to them...okay.
In almost every thread, including this one, people are still asking for a full size Gigabit Ethernet port, FireWire 800, MagSafe, SD Card, HDMI, USB-A and even a couple of other things that make zero sense in 2019. Every possible negative issue that gets an iota of coverage turns into a 300+ posts thread about the useless Touch Bar, the horrible keyboard, blown out speakers that macOS should have stopped, the stagelight issues, anything that is different from the last MacBook Pro, which are...OMG...the last good thing Apple made, according to the posters. The 2012-2015 MacBook Pros are held up as the gold standard and I can sure as hell tell you after changing out 2012s and 2015 MacBook Pros over the past two leases that they are not the magical unicorns that people here try to portray them as. Crap breaks, batteries bulge, motherboards lose their $#!7 and sometimes you get it fixed inside AppleCare and sometimes you don't and the business eats the cost.
I own several MacBook Pros (2011, 2012, 2015 and 2016) and I appreciate all these as products of their respective times. Each has strengths and weaknesses. For instance, the Late 2011 absolutely has the best feeling and most stable keyboard out of all of them, but it is not svelte in the least or as cool or has a Retina screen. I like svelte, I really do and I hope 10nm Sunny Cove, Navi GPUs, LPDDR4 DRAM and better battery technology lets me keep svelte and cool.
To me, the sheer mental and emotional energy spent on complaining about the 2016-2018 MacBook Pro is simply astounding. The loud bleating of entitlement when I suggest to someone that they purchase an $8.00 cable to connect an older device, the sheer silliness of others proclaiming that they will have to carry around 5lbs and $200 worth of dongles to make the new MBP useful...I have heard it all.
For me, only me, I cannot speak for others, I don't want to see another USB-A port, HDMI, SD Card or MagSafe anywhere near the next MacBook Pro or MacBook Air ever again. I found solutions, I streamlined where I needed (bye bye FW800), I have noted those things that I do not particularly care for (the keyboard travel is too short, the slightly anemic battery life, the struggle to plug the charging cable into that tiny ass port in the dark, etc) and I have weighed it against the vices and virtues of my previous MacBook Pros and it this point, I am on the road to getting rid of anything without USB-C/TB3. I have more damn dongles to use on my work 2015 MacBook Pro than I do on the 2016 MacBook Pro. At least now the USB-C dongles I might ever need will also work with the new iPad Pro.
Moving forward, in my humble opinion, I think it would be worthwhile for all of us to spend our energies on finding solutions, sharing those with each other and where there are real issues with USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 (cables and Power Delivery are my top two), going to Apple and hammering them on items to be fixed, so that this technology can fulfill what it has promised. Maybe that is myopic or dismissing of users who have older MacBook Pros, but I cannot see how the complaining about legacy ports coming back is making any difference. Better keyboard mechanism (Magic Keyboard scissors), yes...a little thicker for better battery and better cooling, hell yes...two more 10Gbps USB-C ports hanging off the PCH on the 15-inch and moving the headphone jack to the LEFT side, a little smaller TrackPad, better education for Apple Store employees, better cable selection in store for legacy needs...I could get behind those. Holding Apple accountable to make the best possible MacBook Pro for the money is great, as long as everyone takes the reality into account.
PS - I am sorry my posts are so long, but I cannot do TL;DR.
“Brevity is the soul of wit.”
— William Shakespeare
The point of the discussion is not a naive hope that ports will come back. It’s (unproductively) a way for people to vent and (more productively) a way for people to make their opinions known — with the hope that Apple and other manufacturers may take note and consider this like a case study when making future decisions.
It’s also instructive to all of us. The fact that people are still peeved years later says something. People not vocalizing that displeasure might lead one to the (wrong) conclusion that nearly all users happily came around to Apple’s decision.
So to follow my own advice and conclude in brief, I do think the dialogue is productive. I think me noting that my 2017 is a paperweight while my 2014 is my everyday machine is instructive. You may choose to disagree. You may also choose to continue to engage us — or not. That too is your decision.
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I recall having a 17" MBP with the external battery compartment and regularly carried around the extra charged battery. Admittedly, it was heavy, but did provide peace of mind that I always had a functioning computer. The larger screen was really valuable for providing visuals in a group setting. I don't anticipate the luxury of an external battery in the new machines, but will definitely be saving for what will most likely be a premium price tag to get the larger screen.