Developers attitudes towards user testing

[DanR16]

Hi,
I wanted to discuss something which has been bugging me for quite a while. Every time a distressed user asks for help with a beta release there always seems to be a developer who just wants to get at them and mock them for daring to try out a bit of software when their not a developer. I don't care if user testing is right or wrong, at the end of the day these people are your customers so I fail to see why developers feel the need to publicly mock distressed users when their already down. If you don't want to help fine, but don't mock them or make petty comments.

Just to be clear I am aware of the negative implications of users testing betas but that's not the issue I'm making, I just think that kicking someone when there down is wrong, you wouldn't do it face to face so don't do it here.

Thanks,

Update, here's an example of the type of post I'm referring to, please read before voting so you know what we're talking about.

I think the important question is, how did your app perform? Were you able to test how the new API changes impact your application? Were you able to determine how new UI changes might impact your own layout and design decisions?

Oh wait, what's that? You don't have your own application and you're not an iOS developer?

Then all I can say is, you can kiss your own a**! For complaining about a beta software that's not meant for you!

There is a reason this is not released for the general public yet, doofas!

 

[Ram27]

Agreed.

I get that it might be annoying, but there's no need to be so sardonic/condescending/elitist.

 

[C DM]

Large part of the existence of (anonymous) online forums is for people to jump on bandwagons that in one way or another belittle other users. That's almost the bread and butter of online communities.

 

[matt2053]

I don't think developers have a problem with users testing beta software. What gets annoying is posts about how iOS 7 sucks because of Bug X, or "help, I really need to use Feature Y but it's brokenz!?!?!?" Just this morning a guy posted that Apple can "kiss his a**" because of a bug in iOS 7 beta. Give me a break. Of course you're going to be mocked. The "beta" label by definition means there. are. known. bugs.

A user can use the software, but a user has no right to whine or complain about bugs at all! When you install a beta you should assume going in that there will be showstopper bugs, critical features not working, that will prevent you from being able to use your iPhone normally. Don't act surprised when it really happens!!!

 

[inselstudent]

I'd say that Apple know what they're doing, and the more people running the beta on their devices, the more feedback they receive. you can't really tell what your device sends to Apple in the background, but I guess crash logs and the like are sent even without the user's consent (or maybe with, has anyone read the T&C )

I'm convinced it's deliberate by Apple to open the beta to anyone who really wants it.

and just for the record, I have a dev account.

 

[Patriot24]

Hi,
I wanted to discuss something which has been bugging me for quite a while. Every time a distressed user asks for help with a beta release there always seems to be a developer who just wants to get at them and mock them for daring to try out a bit of software when there not a developer. I don't care if user testing is right or wrong, at the end of the day these people are your customers so I fail to see why developers feel the need to publicly mock distressed users when their already down. If you don't want to help fine, but don't mock them or make petty comments.

Just to be clear I am aware of the negative implications of users testing betas but that's not the issue I'm making, I just think that kicking someone when there down is wrong, you wouldn't do it face to face so don't do it here.

Thanks,

I'm not reading your post until you prove that you're a legit developer.

*turns nose up*

 

[willryan42]

I see both sides of the issue. On one hand, a lot of people act unnecessarily douchey ("what? you're not a developer? why do you have it on your device?"), but on the other hand people should only be installing beta's if they know what they're in for (not saying this is only developers).

People that come on here complaining about performance (kind of) deserve to be mocked because they willingly installed a beta firmware. It's supposed to have bugs, and isn't meant for public release. I digress.

 

[DanR16]

I don't think developers have a problem with users testing beta software. What gets annoying is posts about how iOS 7 sucks because of Bug X, or "help, I really need to use Feature Y but it's brokenz!?!?!?" Just this morning a guy posted that Apple can "kiss his a**" because of a bug in iOS 7 beta. Give me a break. Of course you're going to be mocked. The "beta" label by definition means there. are. known. bugs.

A user can use the software, but a user has no right to whine or complain about bugs at all! When you install a beta you should assume going in that there will be showstopper bugs, critical features not working, that will prevent you from being able to use your iPhone normally. Don't act surprised when it really happens!!!

I agree entirely but there's still no reason to make petty comments which will just upset someone. And I was referring to users who are asking for help, not those who are complaining.

 

[Jare]

I know my reply here will be shot down and angered but the message needs to get across.

It's $99/year for an Apple Developer license which gives you access to the Apple Developer portal. Every year, around the time that beta's are launched users try and find ways around paying this fee so that they can try an iOS developer beta.

Then, they come on MacRumors and post threads about how it's buggy, apps they use daily do not work and they flood the forums with threads that mostly lack common sense.

What all of you need to understand is Apple doesn't handle beta software like some of you think they should. It's not "beta" software, it's DEVELOPER BETA software. The beta software they release is meant for developers only. This is why they hide the software behind a PAID PORTAL.

By downloading the .ipsw from a third party you are breaking the law and doing something illegal. Nothing more needs to be said on that. Installing it is not the problem, the problem is 3rd party sites hosting the software that is legally bound by contract behind a paid portal.

Why does Apple do this? Because DEVELOPERS need access to early versions of the software so that on launch, their apps are already ready to go for you to use (Think Facebook, Twitter, etc).

And finally, no one on here is that stupid to believe the majority of you are actually submitting bugs. Why? Because you're on here posting silly threads about how your favourite apps don't work or how you hate the beta because it's unstable. Don't feed me that line. If you were really helping and submitting bugs, you wouldn't need to post it on MacRumors as you'd have already used Apple's Feedback system (the only place that your "opinion" actually matters and can do some good).

By installing this software as a joy ride to play with you are doing absolutely no good in the development of iOS. If you really want to contribute to the development of iOS 7, wait until you're able to install iOS 7.0 in a legal, public release way and submit bugs. Apple's iOS X.0 launches are the REAL BETAS. They're released to the public AND you can submit bug reports and actually do some real good. All those iOS versions after X.0 (Like iOS 7.1, 7.1.2, etc) will be the versions where YOUR BUG REPORTS matter.

 

[mrapplegate]

I know my reply here will be shot down and angered but the message needs to get across.

I don't see why people would take offense to the facts.

 

[Jare]

I don't see why people would take offense to the facts.

Because I'm one of those people that the OP is talking about.

 

[mrapplegate]

Because I'm one of those people that the OP is talking about.

My opinion is that it's a cut and dry issue and you expressed how a lot of others feel.

 

[Jare]

My opinion is that it's a cut and dry issue and you expressed how a lot of others feel.

I only express really what's common sense and the legality behind it. I understand that most people will not listen and continue to do this anyways, but there will be a few people (mostly who skim my post for the bold parts) and may actually stop with the silly threads and questions.

I feel this forum needs a lot more moderation, particularly when it comes to people asking "Why doesn't X app work?" or "iOS X beta is buggy and unusable" Those users should get a small 12 hour time out with a warning about common sense and potentially a link to a stickied thread that outlines what is allowed and what is not.

 

[C DM]

I know my reply here will be shot down and angered but the message needs to get across.

It's $99/year for an Apple Developer license which gives you access to the Apple Developer portal. Every year, around the time that beta's are launched users try and find ways around paying this fee so that they can try an iOS developer beta.

Then, they come on MacRumors and post threads about how it's buggy, apps they use daily do not work and they flood the forums with threads that mostly lack common sense.

What all of you need to understand is Apple doesn't handle beta software like some of you think they should. It's not "beta" software, it's DEVELOPER BETA software. The beta software they release is meant for developers only. This is why they hide the software behind a PAID PORTAL.

By downloading the .ipsw from a third party you are breaking the law and doing something illegal. Nothing more needs to be said on that. Installing it is not the problem, the problem is 3rd party sites hosting the software that is legally bound by contract behind a paid portal.

Why does Apple do this? Because DEVELOPERS need access to early versions of the software so that on launch, their apps are already ready to go for you to use (Think Facebook, Twitter, etc).

And finally, no one on here is that stupid to believe the majority of you are actually submitting bugs. Why? Because you're on here posting silly threads about how your favourite apps don't work or how you hate the beta because it's unstable. Don't feed me that line. If you were really helping and submitting bugs, you wouldn't need to post it on MacRumors as you'd have already used Apple's Feedback system (the only place that your "opinion" actually matters and can do some good).

By installing this software as a joy ride to play with you are doing absolutely no good in the development of iOS. If you really want to contribute to the development of iOS 7, wait until you're able to install iOS 7.0 in a legal, public release way and submit bugs. Apple's iOS X.0 launches are the REAL BETAS. They're released to the public AND you can submit bug reports and actually do some real good. All those iOS versions after X.0 (Like iOS 7.1, 7.1.2, etc) will be the versions where YOUR BUG REPORTS matter.

Then what's behind the whole UDID registration and the ability of developers to register devices that are not their own as well?

As for submitting bugs vs. discussing things in other places, it's not exactly a stretch for someone wanting to do both--submit an issue and have a discussion with others about it.

 

[mrapplegate]

I only express really what's common sense and the legality behind it. I understand that most people will not listen and continue to do this anyways, but there will be a few people (mostly who skim my post for the bold parts) and may actually stop with the silly threads and questions.

I feel this forum needs a lot more moderation, particularly when it comes to people asking "Why doesn't X app work?" or "iOS X beta is buggy and unusable" Those users should get a small 12 hour time out with a warning about common sense and potentially a link to a stickied thread that outlines what is allowed and what is not.

I agree. Through the years it's always the same. I've given up trying to explain illegal vs legal to people. I don't care anymore. Just don't complain when things don't work as expected. Be thankful the Apple apps might work. Developers can't even submit fixes until the GM is released, so what good does complaining do?

 

[Jare]

Then what's behind the whole UDID registration and the ability of developers to register devices that are not their own as well?

That's for developers like us to give other employees or personnel access to testing our applications.

Apple actually bans developer accounts that do not follow this rule and who give access to friends, or sell the slots etc.

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I agree. Through the years it's always the same. I've given up trying to explain illegal vs legal to people. I don't care anymore. Just don't complain when things don't work as expected. Be thankful the Apple apps might work. Developers can't even submit fixes until the GM is released, so what good does complaining do?

Exactly. As a developer it gets frustrating when I see my apps getting negative reviews for incompatibility in a developer beta. I almost want to reply and go really, are you kidding me? I literally cannot fix this issue for you until the software is launched and Apple will accept my updated application that's compatible.

 

[C DM]

That's for developers like us to give other employees or personnel access to testing our applications.

Apple actually bans developer accounts that do not follow this rule and who give access to friends, etc.

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Exactly. As a developer it gets frustrating when I see my apps getting negative reviews for incompatibility in a developer beta. I almost want to reply and go really, are you kidding me? I literally cannot fix this issue for you until the software is launched and Apple will accept my updated application that's compatible.

And how would that testing play out when you want/need to test your app against iOS 7 and have more coverage using other employees or personnel (some of whom can very well be just friends)? Is there actual language somewhere that bans registering devices of friends or family?

 

[Jare]

As for submitting bugs vs. discussing things in other places, it's not exactly a stretch for someone wanting to do both--submit an issue and have a discussion with others about it.

It's a very large stretch, don't kid yourself.

And why would you need to discuss it? You should understand the software you are installing is not fully functioning and there are guarenteed problems. If you experience an issue, 99.9% of the time someone else is as well, or a fresh install will fix the problem. Why do they feel the need to come on here and post a thread asking if anyone else is having the issue? What does this accomplish? Nothing, other then increasing their post count.

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And how would that testing play out when you want/need to test your app against iOS 7 and have more coverage using other employees or personnel (some of whom can very well be just friends)?

It's testing on different devices. IE, iPad, iPhone, iPods. They give you this access to make sure that no matter the device, the user experience should remain the same.

Apple is very strict about this policy and a lot of the threads on here (from users who claim to be developers but their iOS devices are no longer working) are because they paid some guy in china $25/etc to register their UDID and the account got banned. It's really that simple.

 

[mrapplegate]

And how would that testing play out when you want/need to test your app against iOS 7 and have more coverage using other employees or personnel (some of whom can very well be just friends)? Is there actual language somewhere that bans registering devices of friends or family?

I admit it's on my wife's phone. Is she testing for me at the moment? No.
She bitched about the phone crashing and I said it's a beta file a bug report, and she laughed and said I just did. Am I afraid of Apple pulling my developer account? No, because she tests when I need her to.

 

[Jare]

I admit it's on my wife's phone. Is she testing for me at the moment? No.
She bitched about the phone crashing and I said it's a beta file a bug report, and she laughed and said I just did. Am I afraid of Apple pulling my developer account? No, because she tests when I need her to.

More then likely one or two people registered to your account wont flag you. But when you start hitting 10+, you will get flagged. Apple has banned in the past, and they will continue to do so. And they'll keep the money, too. Just be careful is all, don't be stupid and give all your friends access and what not. But you seem like an intelligent individual so I don't have to tell you this.

 

[C DM]

It's a very large stretch, don't kid yourself.

And why would you need to discuss it? You should understand the software you are installing is not fully functioning and there are guarenteed problems. If you experience an issue, 99.9% of the time someone else is as well, or a fresh install will fix the problem. Why do they feel the need to come on here and post a thread asking if anyone else is having the issue? What does this accomplish? Nothing, other then increasing their post count.

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It's testing on different devices. IE, iPad, iPhone, iPods. They give you this access to make sure that no matter the device, the user experience should remain the same.

Apple is very strict about this policy and a lot of the threads on here (from users who claim to be developers but their iOS devices are no longer working) are because they paid some guy in china $25/etc to register their UDID and the account got banned. It's really that simple.

So what I'm wondering is what language is used to specify those restrictions where devices of other people can't be registered and used for testing.

As for discussion of things, people have all kinds of reasons for all kinds of things, just because you or I don't see a reason for something doesn't mean it doesn't exist for someone else and makes sense for them when it comes to something subjective as discussing some issue they are having. We can suspect this or that, and we can generalize (but we know how well generalizations work in the world), but we still can't rule out anything.

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More then likely one or two people registered to your account wont flag you. But when you start hitting 10+, you will get flagged. Apple has banned in the past, and they will continue to do so. And they'll keep the money, too. Just be careful is all, don't be stupid and give all your friends access and what not. But you seem like an intelligent individual so I don't have to tell you this.

If you will be flagged for 10+ then why does Apple provide 99 and not just 10?

 

[Jare]

So what I'm wondering is what language is used to specify those restrictions where devices of other people can't be registered and used for testing.

As for discussion of things, people have all kinds of reasons for all kinds of things, just because you or I don't see a reason for something doesn't mean it doesn't exist for someone else and makes sense for them when it comes to something subjective as discussing some issue they are having. We can suspect this or that, and we can generalize (but we know how well generalizations work in the world), but we still can't rule out anything.

I'll start off by saying it's not just you or I who feel this way. It's a consensus among the community (just look at all the threads where people come in and start harassing users about the developer license (I do it too, sometimes)).

 

[mrapplegate]

More then likely one or two people registered to your account wont flag you. But when you start hitting 10+, you will get flagged. Apple has banned in the past, and they will continue to do so. And they'll keep the money, too. Just be careful is all, don't be stupid and give all your friends access and what not. But you seem like an intelligent individual so I don't have to tell you this.

Right, I have four people on my account. That's all I need for my needs.

 

[Jare]

If you will be flagged for 10+ then why does Apple provide 99 and not just 10?

I don't fully know the thought process of Apple, but I can deduce it with logic and common sense. I'll try to explain.

You get 99 slots as a blanket. And by blanket, I mean something that covers the entire range of employees, managers, supervisors, developers, designers and what not.

Apple doesn't expect (unless you're registered as a corporation developer) to ever need more then let's say, 10-30 slots. Anything more will get you flagged and your account looked into. They will check for diagnostics being enabled on these devices and if bug reports were submitted by these UDID's, and the contents of those in a very narrow and quick manner. Then they will deem your ban if needed.

I would assume that's how it works. I may be wrong.

 

[C DM]

I'll start off by saying it's not just you or I who feel this way. It's a consensus among the community (just look at all the threads where people come in and start harassing users about the developer license (I do it too, sometimes)).

People jumping on bandwagons in anonymous online communities unfortunately not a measure of any kind of reality. People will do a lot of things of this nature just to do them. But even if a lot of people truly feel that way, it's still an opinion (even if it's shared by a lot of people), mostly based on a generalization, and it still doesn't mean that everyone who wants to have a discussion falls into that category.