For my part i paid someone to add my 2 iphone and iPad mini with the UDID but all the thread i read here (about "died phone") freak me and i reinstall iOS 6 on all of my devices...
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Developers attitudes towards user testing
- Thread starter DanR16
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Except that that's a load of bull. I have tried doing exactly just that, I did a clean restore without a backup, and after a few hours of it not working, I restored it from a backup because why lose all my data with no gain? Your assumption that a clean restore would cure the problem is completely false. And unlike you, I have done a lot of searches in various forums and websites about it. If you had, you would know that the imessage/facetime not activating issue isn't related to and is not exclusively an ios 7 bug. There have been discussions about this for years, and many websites have posted different solutions from resetting your phone, restoring, using redsn0w to deactivate then activate again. None of those worked for me however, which is why I posted again on MacRumors to see if there are any new suggestions.
And it's ironic because this honestly does help display your elitist attitude - thinking somehow you outsmarted me by going through my posts and making assumptions about them. How about instead of ignoring the bulk of my previous post and fighting me to the end, just acknowledge the fact that snide and condescending responses to problems like "this is a developer's beta, there are bugs" and "you shouldn't even have it in the first place" doesn't accomplish anything for anyone. I never said that you were one of those developers because honestly I haven't noticed you as one of those, and I'm really not willing to go through your post history to find out. And my quip about you not being qualified only stemmed from you making the assumption that most problems could be solved by a clean restore and/or deleting apps, because let's face it - it's not always that simple.
If any developers who use this forum actually find users reporting an issue with their product, surely that is a good thing right?
It's not only Apple who can benefit from this so called "illegal" arrangement, everyone can.
Seems childish to me, "I paid the $99 and you didn't... waaahh"
Make use of it. It's an additional source of testing, surprised your not bunging DMs about asking people to try things.
I know the hardware is unified so what works for one, should for another but as of late that doesn't appear to be the case. There are just too many variables now. You need more people in the loop to get this right.
The manner of how iOS is rolled out and governed, if it's not to your tastes you shouldn't have to be strong armed into upgrading. This at least gives the consumer the chance to experience the new look and feel before they commit their expensive hardware to it in the future.
When iOS 6 became the norm there were a lot of disappointed users who have since jumped ship completely. That is only going to get worse with iOS 7.
It's not only Apple who can benefit from this so called "illegal" arrangement, everyone can.
Seems childish to me, "I paid the $99 and you didn't... waaahh"
Make use of it. It's an additional source of testing, surprised your not bunging DMs about asking people to try things.
I know the hardware is unified so what works for one, should for another but as of late that doesn't appear to be the case. There are just too many variables now. You need more people in the loop to get this right.
The manner of how iOS is rolled out and governed, if it's not to your tastes you shouldn't have to be strong armed into upgrading. This at least gives the consumer the chance to experience the new look and feel before they commit their expensive hardware to it in the future.
When iOS 6 became the norm there were a lot of disappointed users who have since jumped ship completely. That is only going to get worse with iOS 7.
This situation is toxic to legitimate developers.
We are all bound by an NDA. The iOS 7 beta is considered confidential. Any developer asking for a user to test their software on an illegitimate iOS 7 installation could be permanently banned from the iOS developer program. It would not be hard for Apple to figure out who you were, after all you'd be asking users to test an application signed with your developer certificates.
You (and everyone else here) would know this if any of you were actual developers. You're not, and that's the whole problem. None of you are helping by screwing up your own devices with the beta. You're just clogging up the forum with irrelevant line noise asking for tech support.
I would suggest that all developers here stay away from this stuff with a 40 foot pole using whatever account you've got on the forum that might be traced back to you. Apple can ban you for any reason they want. Don't give them a reason to.
-SC
Sorry, I have to jump in here. I've posted this before but let me say it again. I've been in software development since before most of you were born, in fact I would say before some of your parents were born. All the way from coding to project management.
I have both written and performed formal testing on numerous pieces of software.
I don't know any other way to say it but from all my years I can say that devs are the worst testers ever. If you are a true dev and want your software to perform correctly in real-world circumstances you must have others test it for you. And that's the real reason Apple allows so many slots per dev account. Do you really think Apple or any large company has their devs do the testing? Even past the alpha period (where the formal testing takes place) beta testing needs 'power users' because they think out of the box and don't follow the formal test plan (which never, never, ever covers everything).
Now I understand the ire of some of the devs who are upset that people who aren't supposed to be allowed the software have it. But that's not going to stop so no use getting so upset.
Frankly the simple fact that Apple seems to put very little effort into stopping these folks tells me they understand that real-world users are the best way to actually test a beta. Keep it out of the hands of the masses but allow those who are a bit tech savvy to run it. That way the whole OS gets real-world testing and not just those set up in formal test plans. Yes, it's not the optimal way to do it but it has worked well for Apple in the past.
I would suggest if it bothers any dev that others are using the beta, skip over those threads. Some have good info, most are BS. Such is life.
But there is no reason to get yourself in a tizzy over it. Life's too short. Just keep developing, read the dev forums and move on.
Oh, and the word 'illegal' is being thrown around here in relation to the download and use of the beta software. The context implies that these non-devs are breaking a law and that's not true. The sites they are getting it from may be violating a contract but that's a civil matter between Apple and the site distributing the software and not a criminal matter.
My advice - take a deep breath, relax, this too shall pass.
Sheesh....I'm retired now and I certainly do not miss roll-outs
You know what's more annoying than non-developers complaining about bugs in the iOS7 Beta?
Developers dismissing every criticism of iOS7 because it's a beta. It's perfectly common to see something like "I really dislike the lack of definition around buttons and controls in iOS7" .... response "It's a beta."
Developers dismissing every criticism of iOS7 because it's a beta. It's perfectly common to see something like "I really dislike the lack of definition around buttons and controls in iOS7" .... response "It's a beta."
Thank you! This nicely sums it up. I think too many developers feel like they need to be vigilantes, thinking they have to guard the beta for Apple like it's some rare substance. In the end, if the customer doesn't follow Apple's rules, it's still strictly between Apple and the customers.
yes, but elitistic is what Apple's image is based on
don't worry, if it'd be open source the devs would tell you to sod off and RTFM.
Because I'm one of those people that the OP is talking about.
No, I was referring to this polite person:
I know people whining is anoying but that was bang out of order.
Yes, many here act morally superior when it comes to this. I just ignore it (the best I can). I have no problem helping people.
From what I have observed here, there are several developers with (what appears to be) an ego problem. For some reason or another, they want to believe that they are the elitist part of the Apple community. And the plebians who use the beta release, are somehow infringing on the "for members only" club.
In my opinion, it is the same kind of mentality, as those complaining about Apple possibly releasing a lower cost phone to the masses. Oh, no! No more elitism if that occurs.
In my opinion, it is the same kind of mentality, as those complaining about Apple possibly releasing a lower cost phone to the masses. Oh, no! No more elitism if that occurs.
Guys, get over yourselves. It's a beta. Everyone will be running iOS 7 at some point. You're not special, so stop acting like you're royalty and everyone else are pesents.
I totally agree with you, we are the worst testers. But here's the problem with your post.
This beta isn't to test iOS 7 itself, this is to test OUR APPLICATIONS with the new APIs. Your entire post is 100% correct and I commend you for coming in here and voicing your opinion (a lot better then I did mine).
You'd be totally right if you didn't have the idea of what this beta is wrong.
It's not "Beta" software in the traditional sense. It's "developer beta" software.
From: https://developer.apple.com/ios7/
Apple Website said:
Ugh.
It is up to a developer to decide whether they need your help or not to test their applications. In the case of Adobe, they're a huge company, and they have people employed to do this exact thing. Hence why they've asked us to refrain from using Creative Suite on Mavericks until it's released to the public. You should not be using a developer preview for production work to begin with, even if it is more stable than the current OS.
Just because you're available to do it, doesn't mean you're entitled to do it.
As for getting used to iOS 7 before committing to another device. Just no. You will probably have a month to use iOS 7 in a stable form once it releases. That is enough time to decide whether you want to stay put, or downgrade back to iOS 6.
There are too many problems with iOS 7 that it's totally unfair to even gripe at developers about their apps. You have to give them time to deal with deprecated APIs too. And in the case of games, you have to wait for engines to be updated to support iOS 7 too.
It is up to a developer to decide whether they need your help or not to test their applications. In the case of Adobe, they're a huge company, and they have people employed to do this exact thing. Hence why they've asked us to refrain from using Creative Suite on Mavericks until it's released to the public. You should not be using a developer preview for production work to begin with, even if it is more stable than the current OS.
Just because you're available to do it, doesn't mean you're entitled to do it.
As for getting used to iOS 7 before committing to another device. Just no. You will probably have a month to use iOS 7 in a stable form once it releases. That is enough time to decide whether you want to stay put, or downgrade back to iOS 6.
There are too many problems with iOS 7 that it's totally unfair to even gripe at developers about their apps. You have to give them time to deal with deprecated APIs too. And in the case of games, you have to wait for engines to be updated to support iOS 7 too.
I agree with Jare, it's beta software meant for either a) devs or IT to test their/company apps or b) people who know what their doing.
I'll admit, I am one of those people that when someone comes here, saying they installed an iOS beta via a torrent or paid someone to register their UDID, and something goes wrong they come here begging for help, I want to point and Nelson Muntz "Ha Ha" at them. Most of the people that illegally install the software just want the "latest" iOS for themselves or to show off to their friends. Betas are like fire: you gotta know how to handle them or you will be burned.
Having said all that, I am not a dev, I do not have a dev account, nor do I have any OS X or iOS beta software on my machines. Do I want to run them? Yes, but I'm not going to as I have no apps to test so I'm not paying $200 for beta software, no experiencing in beta testing, and I have the patience to wait until fall.
I'll admit, I am one of those people that when someone comes here, saying they installed an iOS beta via a torrent or paid someone to register their UDID, and something goes wrong they come here begging for help, I want to point and Nelson Muntz "Ha Ha" at them. Most of the people that illegally install the software just want the "latest" iOS for themselves or to show off to their friends. Betas are like fire: you gotta know how to handle them or you will be burned.
Having said all that, I am not a dev, I do not have a dev account, nor do I have any OS X or iOS beta software on my machines. Do I want to run them? Yes, but I'm not going to as I have no apps to test so I'm not paying $200 for beta software, no experiencing in beta testing, and I have the patience to wait until fall.
Ugh.
It is up to a developer to decide whether they need your help or not to test their applications. In the case of Adobe, they're a huge company, and they have people employed to do this exact thing. Hence why they've asked us to refrain from using Creative Suite on Mavericks until it's released to the public. You should not be using a developer preview for production work to begin with, even if it is more stable than the current OS.
Just because you're available to do it, doesn't mean you're entitled to do it.
As for getting used to iOS 7 before committing to another device. Just no. You will probably have a month to use iOS 7 in a stable form once it releases. That is enough time to decide whether you want to stay put, or downgrade back to iOS 6.
There are too many problems with iOS 7 that it's totally unfair to even gripe at developers about their apps. You have to give them time to deal with deprecated APIs too. And in the case of games, you have to wait for engines to be updated to support iOS 7 too.
Nobody is griping at developers on here, most of the time people are genuinely asking for help.
That being said, still more usable apps than WP8. lol
If you are sending your diagnostics and usage to apple, then yes they actually are helping. No, it may not tell them exact details like the bug reporter will, but hey... it helps.
But I do agree with most of your points.
Ugh.
It is up to a developer to decide whether they need your help or not to test their applications. In the case of Adobe, they're a huge company, and they have people employed to do this exact thing. Hence why they've asked us to refrain from using Creative Suite on Mavericks until it's released to the public. You should not be using a developer preview for production work to begin with, even if it is more stable than the current OS.
Just because you're available to do it, doesn't mean you're entitled to do it.
As for getting used to iOS 7 before committing to another device. Just no. You will probably have a month to use iOS 7 in a stable form once it releases. That is enough time to decide whether you want to stay put, or downgrade back to iOS 6.
There are too many problems with iOS 7 that it's totally unfair to even gripe at developers about their apps. You have to give them time to deal with deprecated APIs too. And in the case of games, you have to wait for engines to be updated to support iOS 7 too.
Oh, let's do talk about entitlement - just because developers are entitled to the beta, doesn't mean they are entitled to their elitist and condescending attitudes. And this of course does not reflect all developers.
Anywho, this thread wasn't created to talk about whether people should or shouldn't use the beta if they're not developers, because the reality is that a large amount of ios 7 users on this forum are not developers, and there's nothing you can do to change that.
The fact is that if you're on a public forum asking about an issue that has to do with unreleased software, then you shouldn't be running it. There could be so much more better discussion about iOS 7 in general, like new APIs, app optimization, the new features, and other things. Instead, we're babysitting all the newbies who come in here with a problem and are using the beta like it's the real deal.
Of course we can't stop it, but asking someone to use common sense is a given, and we're not going to stop telling people how it is until they get it.