Developers attitudes towards user testing

[Jare]

Right, I have four people on my account. That's all I need for my needs.

That's all most of the independent developers need, as there aren't always 30+ people pounding out an application.

But when you get to things like Infinity Blade, or Modern Combat.. that's when those 99 slots is a godsend.

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People jumping on bandwagons in anonymous online communities unfortunately not a measure of any kind of reality. People will do a lot of things of this nature just to do them. But even if a lot of people truly feel that way, it's still an opinion (even if it's shared by a lot of people), mostly based on a generalization, and it still doesn't mean that everyone who wants to have a discussion falls into that category.

Of course, I am being general and using only my observations and common sense as my basis.

 

[AdonisSMU]

That's for developers like us to give other employees or personnel access to testing our applications.

Apple actually bans developer accounts that do not follow this rule and who give access to friends, or sell the slots etc.

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Exactly. As a developer it gets frustrating when I see my apps getting negative reviews for incompatibility in a developer beta. I almost want to reply and go really, are you kidding me? I literally cannot fix this issue for you until the software is launched and Apple will accept my updated application that's compatible.

Thank you JARE!

 

[rmeadejr]

couldn't have said it any better myself, JARE. thank you

 

[Jare]

Thank you JARE!

couldn't have said it any better myself, JARE. thank you

You're both welcome, though I don't know what for.

 

[MBHockey]

I know my reply here will be shot down and angered but the message needs to get across.

It's $99/year for an Apple Developer license which gives you access to the Apple Developer portal. Every year, around the time that beta's are launched users try and find ways around paying this fee so that they can try an iOS developer beta.

Then, they come on MacRumors and post threads about how it's buggy, apps they use daily do not work and they flood the forums with threads that mostly lack common sense.

What all of you need to understand is Apple doesn't handle beta software like some of you think they should. It's not "beta" software, it's DEVELOPER BETA software. The beta software they release is meant for developers only. This is why they hide the software behind a PAID PORTAL.

By downloading the .ipsw from a third party you are breaking the law and doing something illegal. Nothing more needs to be said on that. Installing it is not the problem, the problem is 3rd party sites hosting the software that is legally bound by contract behind a paid portal.

Why does Apple do this? Because DEVELOPERS need access to early versions of the software so that on launch, their apps are already ready to go for you to use (Think Facebook, Twitter, etc).

And finally, no one on here is that stupid to believe the majority of you are actually submitting bugs. Why? Because you're on here posting silly threads about how your favourite apps don't work or how you hate the beta because it's unstable. Don't feed me that line. If you were really helping and submitting bugs, you wouldn't need to post it on MacRumors as you'd have already used Apple's Feedback system (the only place that your "opinion" actually matters and can do some good).

By installing this software as a joy ride to play with you are doing absolutely no good in the development of iOS. If you really want to contribute to the development of iOS 7, wait until you're able to install iOS 7.0 in a legal, public release way and submit bugs. Apple's iOS X.0 launches are the REAL BETAS. They're released to the public AND you can submit bug reports and actually do some real good. All those iOS versions after X.0 (Like iOS 7.1, 7.1.2, etc) will be the versions where YOUR BUG REPORTS matter.

You, and everyone like you, should take a minute to look up the word "illegal" in the dictionary.

 

[sankyo]

Interesting

 

[bigchrisfgb]

I think a lot of people on here need to realise that it isn't advisable to use this as your primary device that your rely on. As second device fair enough but there are going to be many bugs which could render your iPhone or iPad unusable and people don't realise that and get their knickers in a twist when things go wrong.

The developers and Apple are doing you all a favour by having these BETA's and if you decide to use one and come up with problems that you can't live with then thats your own fault. There is a reason why the general public have to wait until the official release of iOS7 and myself though I am keen to use it myself I can wait until then and be happy reading about the good points of it and how it's changed for the better.

 

[lewismayell]

God, it's no more illegal than installing any pirated software from torrent sites, which I guarantee a large number of members on this forum do, if people don't complain about bugs on the forum, like me, and aren't developers, like me, then I don't see the problem.

The $99 dollars you pay isn't just for beta testing.

 

[Dalton63841]

I don't think developers have a problem with users testing beta software. What gets annoying is posts about how iOS 7 sucks because of Bug X, or "help, I really need to use Feature Y but it's brokenz!?!?!?" Just this morning a guy posted that Apple can "kiss his a**" because of a bug in iOS 7 beta. Give me a break. Of course you're going to be mocked. The "beta" label by definition means there. are. known. bugs.

A user can use the software, but a user has no right to whine or complain about bugs at all! When you install a beta you should assume going in that there will be showstopper bugs, critical features not working, that will prevent you from being able to use your iPhone normally. Don't act surprised when it really happens!!!

Agreed. I'm not officially a developer at all, but it get's so tiring seeing post after post of "ios7 sucks, ios7 bricked my iPhone, ios7 touched me in my private spot"...

 

[Jare]

You, and everyone like you, should take a minute to look up the word "illegal" in the dictionary.

Definition of ILLEGAL

: not according to or authorized by law : unlawful, illicit; also
: not sanctioned by official rules (as of a game)

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/illegal

Sorry, your point was what again?

It's illegal because you're downloading pirated software (the iOS 7 beta .ipsw's). Plain and simple and no more discussion about it is needed.

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God, it's no more illegal than installing any pirated software from torrent sites, which I guarantee a large number of members on this forum do, if people don't complain about bugs on the forum, like me, and aren't developers, like me, then I don't see the problem.

The $99 dollars you pay isn't just for beta testing.

Just to clarify: We don't have an issue with the people I bolded in your post (because we don't know about them, and they don't come on here complaining. But it's still illegal.)

 

[j4zb4]

I'll just sum it up in a statement.

"Constructive criticism and discussions are not the same as moaning and bitching without an iota of common sense..."

An example...

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1602537/ -- I still haven't understood what this guy is talking about... I have never paid twice for the same app... There are many apps I re-downloaded after 3 years of deleting them completely...

And not to mention the 100's of pointless posts here:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1593268/

I am sure if you remove the senseless content the thread will reduce from 93 pages to somewhere around 40 pages...

 

[aimee.elizabeth]

I know my reply here will be shot down and angered but the message needs to get across.

It's $99/year for an Apple Developer license which gives you access to the Apple Developer portal. Every year, around the time that beta's are launched users try and find ways around paying this fee so that they can try an iOS developer beta.

Then, they come on MacRumors and post threads about how it's buggy, apps they use daily do not work and they flood the forums with threads that mostly lack common sense.

What all of you need to understand is Apple doesn't handle beta software like some of you think they should. It's not "beta" software, it's DEVELOPER BETA software. The beta software they release is meant for developers only. This is why they hide the software behind a PAID PORTAL.

By downloading the .ipsw from a third party you are breaking the law and doing something illegal. Nothing more needs to be said on that. Installing it is not the problem, the problem is 3rd party sites hosting the software that is legally bound by contract behind a paid portal.

Why does Apple do this? Because DEVELOPERS need access to early versions of the software so that on launch, their apps are already ready to go for you to use (Think Facebook, Twitter, etc).

And finally, no one on here is that stupid to believe the majority of you are actually submitting bugs. Why? Because you're on here posting silly threads about how your favourite apps don't work or how you hate the beta because it's unstable. Don't feed me that line. If you were really helping and submitting bugs, you wouldn't need to post it on MacRumors as you'd have already used Apple's Feedback system (the only place that your "opinion" actually matters and can do some good).

By installing this software as a joy ride to play with you are doing absolutely no good in the development of iOS. If you really want to contribute to the development of iOS 7, wait until you're able to install iOS 7.0 in a legal, public release way and submit bugs. Apple's iOS X.0 launches are the REAL BETAS. They're released to the public AND you can submit bug reports and actually do some real good. All those iOS versions after X.0 (Like iOS 7.1, 7.1.2, etc) will be the versions where YOUR BUG REPORTS matter.

I think most people on this forum understands that this is a beta, and there will be bugs. However, understanding that there are bugs doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss them or find a way around them for the time being. I understand that it's frustrating when you see the 238476th post about someone not updating it right, and come on here crying they "bricked" their phone (when all they have to do is dfu restore) instead of reading other similar threads that may help them. I think that would be a better suggestion - instead of writing about the same problem that many others are having for the nth time, look through the forum thoroughly because chances are, that problem has been talked about and solutions have been suggested.

And to be fair, I have seen threads of people sharing legitimate bugs and inquiring solutions being met with "IT'S A BETA, GET OVER IT", and that's really unproductive because it neither helps the OP or other people having similar problems. I'm sure developers who have ios 7 on their phones, albeit test units or not, have many of the similar bugs as well. So on those threads, when someone is questioning why this/that bug is happening, and how to fix it in the meantime, it would be wiser to offer solutions and we can make the beta testing phase a more productive and less painlful time for everyone.

 

[Jare]

I think most people on this forum understands that this is a beta, and there will be bugs. However, understanding that there are bugs doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss them or find a way around them for the time being. I understand that it's frustrating when you see the 238476th post about someone not updating it right, and come on here crying they "bricked" their phone (when all they have to do is dfu restore) instead of reading other similar threads that may help them. I think that would be a better suggestion - instead of writing about the same problem that many others are having for the nth time, look through the forum thoroughly because chances are, that problem has been talked about and solutions have been suggested.

And to be fair, I have seen threads of people sharing legitimate bugs and inquiring solutions being met with "IT'S A BETA, GET OVER IT", and that's really unproductive because it neither helps the OP or other people having similar problems. I'm sure developers who have ios 7 on their phones, albeit test units or not, have many of the similar bugs as well. So on those threads, when someone is questioning why this/that bug is happening, and how to fix it in the meantime, it would be wiser to offer solutions and we can make the beta testing phase a more productive and less painlful time for everyone.

Here's the problem with your logic, there are only 2 solutions to almost every problem that arises:

1) Reinstall the beta as a fresh restore, not an upgrade.
2) Delete and reinstall the application.

If both fail, there's nothing you can do. No need to make ANY threads about it, as there's nothing anyone can do until the devs update the application.

 

[C DM]

Here's the problem with your logic, there are only 2 solutions to almost every problem that arises:

1) Reinstall the beta as a fresh restore, not an upgrade.
2) Delete and reinstall the application.

If both fail, there's nothing you can do. No need to make ANY threads about it, as there's nothing anyone can do until the devs update the application.

You can still talk about it, even there's nothing you can do (and sometimes you still don't know if there's really nothing else you can do since someone might mention something else that could be done or some alternative or workaround). These are discussion forums after all.

 

[j4zb4]

I think most people on this forum understands that this is a beta, and there will be bugs. However, understanding that there are bugs doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss them or find a way around them for the time being. I understand that it's frustrating when you see the 238476th post about someone not updating it right, and come on here crying they "bricked" their phone (when all they have to do is dfu restore) instead of reading other similar threads that may help them. I think that would be a better suggestion - instead of writing about the same problem that many others are having for the nth time, look through the forum thoroughly because chances are, that problem has been talked about and solutions have been suggested.

And to be fair, I have seen threads of people sharing legitimate bugs and inquiring solutions being met with "IT'S A BETA, GET OVER IT", and that's really unproductive because it neither helps the OP or other people having similar problems. I'm sure developers who have ios 7 on their phones, albeit test units or not, have many of the similar bugs as well. So on those threads, when someone is questioning why this/that bug is happening, and how to fix it in the meantime, it would be wiser to offer solutions and we can make the beta testing phase a more productive and less painlful time for everyone.

I repeat...

"Constructive criticism and discussions are not the same as moaning and bitching without an iota of common sense..."

 

[Jare]

You can still talk about it, even there's nothing you can do (and sometimes you still don't know if there's really nothing else you can do since someone might mention something else that could be done or some alternative or workaround). These are discussion forums after all.

While I don't disagree, you must see the problem at a larger scope. People start threads without searching the forums for other/similar threads or common sense and then complain when the solution cannot be found.

 

[C DM]

I repeat...

"Constructive criticism and discussions are not the same as moaning and bitching without an iota of common sense..."

Some threads certainly start out that way or go down that way, but others don't, and others that even start out that way turn into some constructive discussions. Yet, no matter which one, there will almost always still be people pointlessly posting "are you a developer?" and "it's a beta"--things that are really equivalent of moaning and bitching without anything constructive.

 

[Jare]

Some threads certainly start out that way or go down that way, but others don't, and others that even start out that way turn into some constructive discussions. Yet, no matter which one, there will almost always still be people pointlessly posting "are you a developer?" and "it's a beta"--things that are really equivalent of moaning and bitching without anything constructive.

Again all though I agree with what you're saying, it's actually not really pointless for someone to point this out in a non destructive way.

 

[C DM]

While I don't disagree, you must see the problem at a larger scope. People start threads without searching the forums for other/similar threads or common sense and then complain when the solution cannot be found.

Of course, there are many of those, but there are many of those in any and all forums, and it's been like that for ages (in online terms). It's the nature of (anonymous) online discussion forums, and not much has been able to change that, certainly no "are you a developer?" and "it's a beta" type of posts.

I'm definitely not saying it's a good thing, but I'm saying that's the reality, and that even amongst quite few of those kinds of posts there will still be a fair amount of valuable ones (at least to some, for one reason or another).

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Again all though I agree with what you're saying, it's actually not really pointless for someone to point this out in a non destructive way.

I agree with that (and at least to an extent that it doesn't go overboard with more and more people jumping on the same bandwagon without much actual usefulness from that).

 

[WordMasterRice]

Again all though I agree with what you're saying, it's actually not really pointless for someone to point this out in a non destructive way.

You can't really believe that... we have 28 PAGES of threads on iOS 7, nobody is confused that this is an official release.

 

[Jare]

You can't really believe that... we have 28 PAGES of threads on iOS 7, nobody is confused that this is an official release.

Sure seems that way, seeing as new threads pop up daily about the exact same things.

 

[aimee.elizabeth]

Here's the problem with your logic, there are only 2 solutions to almost every problem that arises:

1) Reinstall the beta as a fresh restore, not an upgrade.
2) Delete and reinstall the application.

If both fail, there's nothing you can do. No need to make ANY threads about it, as there's nothing anyone can do until the devs update the application.

And the problem with your logic is that if you believe that a fresh restore or delete an application will solve most the problems and bugs that are on this beta, then you're probably not even qualified to be a developer. And even if many of the problems can be fixed with a fresh restore, there are still many that can't, and so we should cater to those.

Moreover, this thread brings up the point about attitudes. It's really disheartening to see how condescending some developers can be. Of course not everyone is as tech savvy as you, and this forum isn't catering only to developers. So yeah, you're allowed to be discontent and annoyed at people who post questions you deem "dumb" or "pointless", but they also are allowed to post their questions. You also have options - you can either stop reading the thread, move onto another more developer oriented forum and you can stroke each other's egos, or be patient and help the person in need; but throwing the equally pointless and obvious phrase of "it's a developer's beta, there are bugs" in the discussion, is not needed.

 

[Jare]

And the problem with your logic is that if you believe that a fresh restore or delete an application will solve most the problems and bugs that are on this beta, then you're probably not even qualified to be a developer. And even if many of the problems can be fixed with a fresh restore, there are still many that can't, and so we should cater to those.

Moreover, this thread brings up the point about attitudes. It's really disheartening to see how condescending some developers can be. Of course not everyone is as tech savvy as you, and this forum isn't catering only to developers. So yeah, you're allowed to be discontent and annoyed at people who post questions you deem "dumb" or "pointless", but they also are allowed to post their questions. You also have options - you can either stop reading the thread, move onto another more developer oriented forum and you can stroke each other's egos, or be patient and help the person in need; but throwing the equally pointless and obvious phrase of "it's a developer's beta, there are bugs" in the discussion, is not needed.

I don't know where your holier than thou complex came from but I will rebuttle just a bit:

You say I'm not qualified as a developer because I mention a fresh restore or deleting an application can fix most of the issues that people post on this forum, yet you are one of these people having an issue who didn't do a clean restore and posted in a thread about it.

As seen here:

https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=17498841#post17498841

Nothing has worked for me so far. I've reset network settings, I've reset all settings, I've done a clean restore of ios 7, although I did use a backup from iTunes.

A clean restore of your device means without a backup, but you used one and yet "nothing has worked" for you. If you would have tried what one of the posters suggested (restore your phone and do not use ANY backups) your problem would have been solved quicker.

 

[ominx]

While I don't disagree, you must see the problem at a larger scope. People start threads without searching the forums for other/similar threads or common sense and then complain when the solution cannot be found.

So the problem, at a larger scope, is people discussing the beta?

I am primarily a lurker. I post here and there but generally I am a geek that follows tech in my alternate ego and I live for diy headaches. So to me a beta is fun. I like to tinker, mod, engineer. But I'm not the only one I'm sure. Remember the Gmail beta... the Mailbox App invitation drama... etc, etc, etc? Computer geeks like to be "first". But I don't think that's who you have a problem with... it seems your real issue is with this forum, with "noobs" that can't search. I agree entirely with your stance on that. I actually think you said it earlier, where are the mods? I've seen threads merged and moved, but generally threads never get locked. Maybe that will help?

 

[Jare]

So the problem, at a larger scope, is people discussing the beta?

I am primarily a lurker. I post here and there but generally I am a geek that follows tech in my alternate ego and I live for diy headaches. So to me a beta is fun. I like to tinker, mod, engineer. But I'm not the only one I'm sure. Remember the Gmail beta... the Mailbox App invitation drama... etc, etc, etc? Computer geeks like to be "first". But I don't think that's who you have a problem with... it seems your real issue is with this forum, with "noobs" that can't search. I agree entirely with your stance on that. I actually think you said it earlier, where are the mods? I've seen threads merged and moved, but generally threads never get locked. Maybe that will help?

Yeah I did mention about the mods but I shouldn't really put all the weight on them, it's the people who posts these threads faults more then the mods.