Anyone? I'd love to test the grads but can't seem to enable it with the LCD Test app. TIA.
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17" MacBookPro C2D Colour Banding Problem / LCD Quality Observations / OSX Users
- Thread starter geehk
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Anyone? I'd love to test the grads but can't seem to enable it with the LCD Test app. TIA.
Where do you find that? Apple System Profiler doesn't give me a model number (does say Depth 32 bit color)
gradient tests are displaying v bad, they look better on my Studio Display even when it's set to thousands of colours
On 17" MBP C2D: Although I saw definite banding with the LCD test app, I can barely see any discernible banding on either of your images (had to look a couple times to see any). In other words, at first glance, no banding. The 2nd, of the two, seems to have some artifacts in the image itself, very difficult to see any in the display. Based on what I saw in LCD Test, I was very surprised NOT to see any real problem in these test JPGs. Thanks for the images, btw.
It would be interesting to try and duplicate LCD Test's gradient in Photoshop.
Where do you find that? Apple System Profiler doesn't give me a model number (does say Depth 32 bit color)
gradient tests are displaying v bad, they look better on my Studio Display even when it's set to thousands of colours
Go to sys prefs-displays-color-choose a color profile, click open profile, then roll down to #13. It shows your model number there.
Ok, mine is the same (and I have bad gradients
)serial no 00000000
manufacture date C05DFF00
First, I'm using LCDTest v2.0b from http://www.bjorgs.com/
Second, without using Quartz, some banding is visible on my MBP 17". My PBG4 17" is marginally better.
Third, using Quartz, very little banding remains on my MBP. My PBG4 is marginally better.
Fourth, using the test images from this thread, I can't see any significant banding on either computer.
My conclusion: The PBG4 is better, but only marginally. Quartz reduces banding. The LCDTest utility may be causing the problem.
Second, without using Quartz, some banding is visible on my MBP 17". My PBG4 17" is marginally better.
Third, using Quartz, very little banding remains on my MBP. My PBG4 is marginally better.
Fourth, using the test images from this thread, I can't see any significant banding on either computer.
My conclusion: The PBG4 is better, but only marginally. Quartz reduces banding. The LCDTest utility may be causing the problem.
Ok, mine is the same (and I have bad gradients
serial no 00000000
manufacture date C05DFF00
Mine is the same too. Oh well, it's already on its way back to apple. The horrible backlight bleeding at the bottom was more of my concern anyway. If that is fixed on my next one, I can live with the gradient thing.
I have the same backlight bleeding along the bottom. It's pretty even, and just slightly worse than I saw on my PB 17", which I considered "perfect". The rest of the display is pretty even, and no dead pixels, so guess I'm going to live with it. All the other displays at the store have some bleeding along the bottom, as have all the other notebooks I've owned. Just some a tad worse/better than others.
The first 17" C2D I opened at store (after buying) at a bad hot spot in upper right corner. No problem swapping at Apple Stores for a good one, though.
edit: I'll be very interested, though, if you do find one without or significantly less bleeding along the bottom edge.
Hi kubla
thanks for the link to LCDTest v2.0b - it's not on version tracker - prob why others have been using 1.1
yes, using the 'with quartz' setting on 2.0b there is little banding on my machine either, but I can't get it to cycle to the next test ie with the colours in different corners, like the non-quartz setting does. I notice that in the non quartz test, it depends on which corner the red is in how bad the banding is - in one of them (red in lower right) the banding is hardly there... so I would need to see another corner of the quartz test to judge the true difference
In any case I can't see that the problem is with the LCDTest utility... I found the utility because there was a problem, which still exists viewing gradients in Preview, Photoshop, Safari... I am comparing the same images (and LCDTest BTW) on a 17" Studio Display off a G4
I will let you know if it is any better. But I see a maxed out 24" iMac in my future if it isn't, as I am expecting. It's pretty bad when the consumer product outshines the pro product in all the pro categories.
I have never seen this bleeding on any other laptops. Not my friend's, father's, colleagues. I have never seen this before the MBPs. I am typing on a first rev. 1.25 ghz 15" PB from 2003 that has absolutely no bleeding, and has been perfect since the day I got it. (knock on wood, applecare ran out 3 days ago)
kubla, can you please say what color profile you are running in your system preferences/displays/colors?
I have been playing around in photoshop drawing gradients, and results are different depending on what color profile I run (as they are probably supposed to be) but WAY the WORST banding is under 'Color LCD' profile - the default on my MBPC2D
Ok I have now established it's intermittent, or at least changeable... LCDTest now shows no (serious) banding in both gradient tests (quartz and non-quartz) PLUS the previously-posted Safari gradient test http://home.comcast.net/~scott.beatson/gradient_copy.jpg is now displaying ok in Safari. I don't know what has changed, but I have been playing around with the color profiles (and have extra ones installed with Photoshop)
nitynate I am using Adobe RGB (1998) but Apple RGB seems about the same
EDIT: you have to change your color profile then relaunch your apps (eg Safari or LCD tester)
nitynate I am using Adobe RGB (1998) but Apple RGB seems about the same
EDIT: you have to change your color profile then relaunch your apps (eg Safari or LCD tester)
AppleKrate:
I was using "Color LCD Calibrated" (my own file after running the color calibration).
You are right: some other color profiles produce far fewer artifacts. Good catch!
If I perform a color calibration on some of these other profiles, the artifacts return. I guess that makes sense: I probably just recalibrated the original profile to look like the LCD profile.
ProMod:
Backlight bleeding on my screen is very mild at the bottom edge: definitely not bad enough to send back my no-dead-pixel MBP.
I was using "Color LCD Calibrated" (my own file after running the color calibration).
You are right: some other color profiles produce far fewer artifacts. Good catch!
If I perform a color calibration on some of these other profiles, the artifacts return. I guess that makes sense: I probably just recalibrated the original profile to look like the LCD profile.
ProMod:
Backlight bleeding on my screen is very mild at the bottom edge: definitely not bad enough to send back my no-dead-pixel MBP.
Hi, I just tried the LCD Test v1.1 app. It is much more basic than LCD Test v2 in the gradients department. v2 has Red-Green-Blue & Cyan-Magenta-Yellow Gradients also.
In LCD Test v2:
> Select 'Color Gradients Verification'
> Press 'Show' - screen goes black then displays RGB Gradient
> Press Space To Toggle Through All Gradients
> Press Escape to go back to programs GUI.
Sounds like a few people have perfect new machines. If apple are offering to exchange the 'banded' MBP C2D's, either they are not informing their customer service reps correctly or they are aware of a banding problem. If this is the case then it can't be just firmware or they would refer you to a software download. If it was a low quality 6 bit LCD, they would have nothing to exchange it with - unless there are multiple models of their laptop LCD's .
I hate to ask this, but is there a correlation between Banding & Matt Screens? I only had the standard 'matt' 256mb Vid Ram models to available to test - never saw a glossy. I am assuming the gloss & matt LCD's are the same underneath the shine.
When I did my 15" & 17" MBP C2D testing I found that the banding worsened with a higher Gamma curve. PC Gamma 2.2 was very bad. Mac Gamma 1.8 was just plain bad.
Hope we can solve the riddle soon - at this rate, the 24" iMac is looking good too. Flying with it is going to be a problem though with the way regulations are now!
I've calibrated my machine also now... when I run the resulting 'Color LCD Calibrated' profile I get some banding in the gradient tests, but not so bad as before (ie with the default 'Color LCD' profile) If I run 'Generic RGB' or 'Apple RGB' the bad banding goes but the colour is a bit washed out. Maybe they will come up with a fix, or maybe the displays just aren't as high spec as maybe they should be at the Pro price
Anyway, like kubla I think I have decided that my machine is good enuf! No dead pixels, no noise, hasn't got too hot yet... OK, the backlighting is not quite perfect, but it's mostly only noticeable if I really look for it... I'm gonna stop running LCDTests and comparing my PORTABLE
machine's display to my desktop Studio Display, and start using my long-awaited MBPC2D for what I got it for... I've calibrated my machine also now... when I run the resulting 'Color LCD Calibrated' profile I get some banding in the gradient tests, but not so bad as before (ie with the default 'Color LCD' profile) If I run 'Generic RGB' or 'Apple RGB' the bad banding goes but the colour is a bit washed out. Maybe they will come up with a fix, or maybe the displays just aren't as high spec as maybe they should be at the Pro price
Anyway, like kubla I think I have decided that my machine is good enuf! No dead pixels, no noise, hasn't got too hot yet... OK, the backlighting is not quite perfect, but it's mostly only noticeable if I really look for it... I'm gonna stop running LCDTests and comparing my PORTABLE
Hi Applekrate,
When you last saw colour banding was it with the Test JPGs or with the 'LCD Test' prog? I'm waiting a while longer to see if it's hardware or software before I make the move to buy. Keeping my fingers crossed for current owners - hope it has a happy ending.
One guy on the Apple forum said this, it all gets quite confusing if it is an OSX/ MBP C2D x1600 bug:
The colour banding is similar on the test gradient jpegs and the LCD Tester - it is the color profiles that affects the amount of banding. the confusion before was that you have to relaunch the app (Preview, LCDTest or whatever) after changing the color profile - otherwise you can get different results from different apps if one was launched before and one after the profile change
To be honest,I haven't found a photographic image that is affected by the banding issue yet - it's just photoshop-type gradients, and they can be pretty smooth if you get the right profile. But they are still not as smoothly transitioned as on my Studio Display. But like I say, I haven't found a major real-world problem yet
My lingering concern is with the slight variation in backlighting across my screen - a slighly darker area running up the middle, and even slighter darker area on the left - again, I only notice it on solid colour backgrounds, and even then only in certain shades - eg a mid grey desktop is noticeably patchy, light grey is fine (and white is perfect, as are the R G & B screens in LCDTest.) But then again, the shifting viewing angle across the wide expanse of the 17" means that it's never completely even anyway. So again I think I can live with it - the rest of the machine is aok, more than - no dead pixels, no sticky keys, no noise - it's my first portable, so while I notice the screen differences, the potential of the machine is mind-blowing and I'm gonna get on with it
But if you can stand waiting, there's probably something better round the corner (but with new problems, natch!)Good luck
Yes, even after I warmed up the units in the shop for the tests I still noticed backlighting issues on the 17". Whilst using the "LCD Test" gradients, I could also see a very Dark Wide Band either accross the screen or down the screen depending on which way the gradients were oriented. At first I thought this was backlighting but I think it was in some way linked with 'bit depth' or colour banding - I get the feeling the 17" I looked at was suffering pretty badly.
When I used the pure Red, Green or Blue test charts to look for pixels I could really see the uneven nature of the screen. On Red and Green I could see a obvious dark 'Vignette' (the brightness dropped off at the edge of the screen). I will stop moaning eventually, but thanks for all your observations!
Well that makes me feel better, as my machine shows no dark areas on the R G B pixel test screens - the only one that reveals a problem is the mid gray. There are variations according to angle of view of course - as this is my first notebook I can't say if they are worse than they should be - its worse than my Studio Display as previously stated. But then I sit back from my Studio Display, plus of course it has way more space at the back for the technology. As you can tell I'm not an expert, but I'd be interested to know whether there are any current screens available that are this bright and this thin that are markedly better. If so, then obviously Apple should be using them! I'm going into an Applestore today to check out the display models. Maybe I'll go into aother store and look at Sonys or something. I need a Mac and I don't really want to send my machine back as I have been waiting for C2D for a long time, hence my early adoption! Plus as stated it's 'perfect' otherwise. There's a long thread at http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=720138&tstart=0 that seems to show that the dark areas problem is almost the norm. There are even people posting images of their machines as examples of perfect screens that obviously have the problem, so again it's debatable how much of a real world problem this is going to be. I do wish I had a perfect screen though
and while I'm wishin, how about a perfect body
PS I've just LCDTested my Studio Display as carefully (obsessively
) as my MBPC2D and guess what - the mid gray shows some variation! Not as much as my MBP, but still, I've NEVER noticed a problem in actual use in all the years I've been using it. (Still displays gradients way better tho)Nice to know I wasn't being too picky. Just returned from the Apple store, where I checked out the 17" MBPs they had on display. They did have some backlight bleeding, but probably about a quarter of what mine was doing. Mine was so much worse. Definitely glad I sent it back, and that there is hope in getting a solid replacement. BTW, all the screens in the store were 9C62, as was mine. Guess I got a dud.