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17" Unibody MacBook Pro with Non-Removable Extended-Life Battery

BenRoethig said:
By that logic, we should all be running windows instead of OSX. It should be good enough because its the choice of over well 51% of users. There is money in users who demand something more the average consumer.
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Umm, that comparison is not even close. For starters, the majority of users that use Windows don't know any better. They use it because 90% of stores sell cheap computers with Windows pre-installed. That is in no way comparable to Apple decided that the battery in a specific macbook model should be non-removable.

Like I said there is reason they are doing this, I can assure you they are not doing it to piss off customers. Same with the glossy screens, if 10% of the people hate it and 90% of the people either don't care or like it and by only offering one or the other they can save millions of dollars then the smart business decision would be to go with that one. There have been no stats on this it's all speculation, who knows..maybe the 20 or so people on this forum are the only ones with an issue with it. :p

People forget that Apple is making computers to make a profit! If they lose a few customers but end up with more revenue because of a decision then they've done something right. In no way shape or form can they run a successful business trying to please everyone, they will crash and burn. They need to make strategic conclusions on what's best for the product and the company and if this rumor is true then they've made the decision that the 17" macbook pro should have a built in battery. The bottom line being they will end up with a higher stock price because of it.
 
detz said:
Umm, that comparison is not even close. For starters, the majority of users that use OS X don't know any better. They use it because all of the Apple stores only sell Apple computers with OS X pre-installed.
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Kinda of fixed it for you.

Homogeneity is never a good idea.
 
Eidorian said:
I'm not the one tossing around pro users and Windows users not knowing any better.
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Did you read what I wrote or do you have selective reading? I never said pro users don't know any better and I said the majority of Windows users don't know better...which is accurate.

I will try and keep it on topic. Like I've said, it's a business decision and I'm sure Apple has put thought into it. I could care less either way, I've never swapped batteries and I probably never will.
 
detz said:
Did you read what I wrote or do you have selective reading? I never said pro users don't know any better and I said the majority of Windows users don't know better...which is accurate.
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It doesn't make those users left behind any less jaded and bitter though.
 
Eidorian said:
It doesn't make those users left behind any less jaded and bitter though.
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True, pissed people are often the most vocal too. I've been pissed about many company decision* but either I switch to another product or I adapt; either that I could I just get pissed and upset which doesn't help anyone.

*BMW switched the window controls to the doors instead of the middle of car where they've always been. I won't purchase a new BMW every again because of this...now that's anal! :p
 
Zpower MBP 17 Dual Batteries?

This is interesting:

"The company is currently working with leading manufacturers of notebook computers, cell phones,
and smart phones to incorporate silver-zinc technology in next generation products. A silver-zinc
battery option will be rolled out in a major notebook computer in 2009. The battery is slated to be
released as a premium extended life battery. The notebook will be “dual chemistry enabled,” which
means it will work with either silver-zinc or lithium-ion batteries."

From:
http://www.zpowerbattery.com/pdf/IDF Fall 08 - Final.pdf

Perhaps a new MBP 17 could have either/both internal Silver-Zinc and/or a removable Lithium Ion Polymer batteries?

Also- (Preparing for incoming flame response)...
Let's not bash AppleCare too much. At a minimum, yes it protects your battery and extra batteries purchased for 3 years. But it also provides for repair of the MBP and an external display if purchased at the same time.
The batteries are $129 each. I have two and have had them both replaced 2x.
I'm ahead of the curve... Also had the MBP repaired. Seems like excellent protection for the money...
 
JOE40 said:
Also- (Preparing for incoming flame response)...
Let's not bash AppleCare too much. At a minimum, yes it protects your battery and extra batteries purchased for 3 years. But it also provides for repair of the MBP and an external display if purchased at the same time.
The batteries are $129 each. I have two and have had them both replaced 2x.
I'm ahead of the curve... Also had the MBP repaired. Seems like excellent protection for the money...
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AppleCare keeps telling me it's an independent one year warranty on the batteries. Not that it keeps them from replacing them nonetheless.
 
Soldered battery? Could you please solder RAM and SSD drive, throw away ethernet and optical drive... oh wait?
 
Vulpinemac said:
You know, there is another technology nobody here has even mentioned: Supercapacitors. These devices have already been manufactured on at least a small scale and are capable of both rapid charge and almost unlimited cycles. Depending on the circuitry involved, it looks like long 'battery' cycle time and essentially unlimited 'battery' life is not only feasible, but likely. Why couldn't the new MacBook take advantage of this?
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Nice and small, would fit in a unibody machine easily:

Module%202.jpg
 
Eidorian said:
AppleCare keeps telling me it's an independent one year warranty on the batteries. Not that it keeps them from replacing them nonetheless.
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Almost 1000 Powerbooks and MacBooks through my program, since the days of titanium cases to current, and NONE of the batteries are officially covered past one year*

AppleCare covers the battery from defect for ONE year, not from accidental damage at all... It is NOT covered under the extended AppleCare agreement, and is considered to be a consumeable item.

-*The only exception is demonstrable swelling of the newer lithium cells, which is not accidental damage, and is not user-caused, Apple will sometimes make a quiet exception, and replace the swollen battery. Sometimes. I have had some refused, and the user had to BUY a replacement by no fault of their own. At least they didn't have to pay a 1-hour minimum labor charge to have the replacement battery installed!

Until they consider a battery to be a non-consumeable item, and FULLY COVER it with extended warranty, this is a VERY bad plan to build batteries into the case. Even if they do FULLY cover it starting with the new model, it is still a fairly bad idea, just a less costly one to the end user or IT department.

I don't care if it is just three screws to open the case. Opening the case as a non-authorized person, if detected, can be cause for AppleCare to be denied until non-warranty, at-cost Apple certified service is performed, as a matter of liability and policy. For a personal buyer, they may not care. For a department full of computers, it isn't a worth-while risk on many machines, and not a good policy to be circumventing what warranty coverage there is.

With battery failure, and battery swelling, and the slight, but not-nil chance for lithium batteries to react with air in a very exothermic reaction, I don't understand why anyone would think that a hard-mounted, non-removeable battery would be a good idea.

BTW, I just saw a user with a swollen battery while I was writing this, in a slight bit of irony.

THIS IS A VERY MONUMENTALLY BAD IDEA.
 
SBik2 said:
unless they can make the 17 inch even slimmer.. i dont think they will make the battery non removable. it would be dumb.
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Since when has that ever stopped Apple from making bad or anti-competitive decisions? Let me guess.... to replace the battery (after it will no longer sufficiently recharge) you must take it to an Apple Store and pay $100 + battery costs. Got to get those $100 accessory fees as they are extremely lucrative and high profit margin items! (cable adapters, batteries, docks, etc.)
 
hiptobesquare said:
BTW, I just saw a user with a swollen battery while I was writing this, in a slight bit of irony.

THIS IS A VERY MONUMENTALLY BAD IDEA.
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Agree completely.

Incidentally, if the battery is not removable, doesn't that imply that it will be entirely inside the case.

In which 'case', doesn't that make a swelling battery all the more dangerous, since if it can't expand slightly, it's more likely to explode?
 
whooleytoo said:
Agree completely.

Incidentally, if the battery is not removable, doesn't that imply that it will be entirely inside the case.

In which 'case', doesn't that make a swelling battery all the more dangerous, since if it can't expand slightly, it's more likely to explode?
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Yes, as I mentioned a page or two back... that is a possibility, that if it is space constrained, and heated by it's own chemical reaction, and external heat from the computer hardware, it could rupture it's envelope, and lithium is HIGHLY reactive to the atmosphere, generating a lot of heat, and very likely fueling a very HOT energetic flame burst, on the order of 1200-1500 degrees F. The bigger the battery, or the more energetic it is by design, the worse the consequence, the more fuel for oxidation. (the longer and hotter it will burn)

If the battery is at an exposed surface of the laptop's casing, as it is currently, it doesn't make an ounce worth of sense that it wouldn't then be detachable, so the inverse is likely true, if the battery is not detachable, it is likely not exposed as the outer surface of the casing.
 
I hope they are just rumors. Every single Apple product I have ever owned had battery problems and never had the life that they claimed it to be. My macbook had 3 different applecare batteries. etc. I always have extra batteries with me. Last thing I want is a laptop with a batteries that needs to be in the shop for repairs all the time. Who wants all of their personal info in the hands of apple workers.
 
kastenbrust said:
Nice and small, would fit in a unibody machine easily:

Module%202.jpg
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Are you trying to drive a car or run a computer with that thing? The technology is currently being designed for automotive use, that doesn't mean a micro-scale version won't work for a computer.
 
My opinion they will be moving in all of the Apple Notebook's 2 of the 4 have them now
 
coffey7 said:
I hope they are just rumors. Every single Apple product I have ever owned had battery problems and never had the life that they claimed it to be. My macbook had 3 different applecare batteries. etc. I always have extra batteries with me. Last thing I want is a laptop with a batteries that needs to be in the shop for repairs all the time. Who wants all of their personal info in the hands of apple workers.
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And why would this unit be in ...the shop for repairs all the time? With a lifespan of over 1,000 cycles, it should last a minimum of 2 years with normal usage and recharge cycles. Even if you're a very heavy user, the unit should only go in about once a year and you could probably wait for the battery to be replaced.

Talk about exaggerating the (nonexistant) problem!
 
Vulpinemac said:
And why would this unit be in ...the shop for repairs all the time? With a lifespan of over 1,000 cycles, it should last a minimum of 2 years with normal usage and recharge cycles. Even if you're a very heavy user, the unit should only go in about once a year and you could probably wait for the battery to be replaced.

Talk about exaggerating the (nonexistant) problem!
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I think that person means that it's a Rev A product and much of Apple's first run machines fail in some way shape or form.

Noting that this batt tech is brand new for Apple, I see some issues with it. After anyone spends $2800 for a machine with a faulty batt there will be blood. If that person is a pro that needs their machine constantly, and Pro Care only does so much, the real problem with a non user replaceable battery comes to light.

I am sure the suckers at the Retail store will try to convince me that my life should change to fit Apple's tech, but I know better.
 
Digital Skunk said:
I think that person means that it's a Rev A product and much of Apple's first run machines fail in some way shape or form.

Noting that this batt tech is brand new for Apple, I see some issues with it. After anyone spends $2800 for a machine with a faulty batt there will be blood. If that person is a pro that needs their machine constantly, and Pro Care only does so much, the real problem with a non user replaceable battery comes to light.

I am sure the suckers at the Retail store will try to convince me that my life should change to fit Apple's tech, but I know better.
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While I don't deny that problems are possible--that's true of any new product irrespective of who the manufacturer is--Apple's service record is significantly better than any of their competitors, including HP, Dell and Sony. This is exemplified by the fact that Apple's Customer Satisfaction Rating is still in the 80% range despite all the complaints by the Vocal Minority.

Honestly, while I own both a G3 iBook and a first generation Intel Macbook which have never given me any problems, I have no need for one of the newer models. The one possible model I want/need is the one rumored to be coming out this fall. Oh, while I could conceivably go for one of the aftermarket tablet conversions and get the full OS X experience, what I'm wanting is more the size of a paperback/hardback book with OS X simplicity. The currently available 'netbooks' do not qualify.
 
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