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17" Unibody MacBook Pro with Non-Removable Extended-Life Battery
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So you have to spend $300 more in getting Apple Care for when your battery runs out.
And... Apple save in material by fixing the batery internally and creating replacement bateries that may take a while to be sold. It makes a lot of sense... for them.
As I said it before... This is not Steve Jobs running Apple, this is some one else trying to suck all the juice out of the Apple. In less than 10 years Apple will dissapear.
Nope. It was your own example of a small thing that meant something to you. But I can't help but wonder if the quoted comment was merely you feinting offense, since that way you got out of responding to anything and everything in my post.
this may have been mentioned.
What about a permanent smaller battery that allows the user to swap out the main one without turning off the computer. For a few that works on site where a power outlet is not available, this is very convenient.
This is "basically" doable with any Apple laptop out there now (dating back to some G4 models). You can't leave the power ON, but you can shut it, wait for it to sleep, then take out the battery, switch it and open it back up where you were.
"Safe sleep"
How am I supposed to respond to the rest of your post when it was only cementing what I said earlier?
The "worth" of a computer is related to how you personally view that computer.
To you its simply a tool, that yes you can get enjoyment out of, but first and foremost a tool to you.
That's differing from my view of a computer being the central entertainment hub.
I'm not entirely sure how you wanted me to respond to your personal opinions.
An iPhone without a replaceable battery is a major inconvenience. However, a a laptop with a without a replaceable battery is completely unacceptable. I am seeing a frightening trend of Apple pulling this crap and its going too far.
Absolutly pathetic! Apple has lost sight of the market that kept them alive, profesionals. Gone are the days of making the best performing computers. The days of catering to teenage girls that want a sexy looking computer.
First they kill FW400, then they do away with DVI do that you have to pay for a $99 cable that takes one of your USB ports. Now Apple wants to put a non-replaceable battery in a pro machine so it's thinner. Total BS!
It's time for SJ to get his head screwed on straight. And if he doesn't he should be axed.
Don
First they kill FW400, then they do away with DVI do that you have to pay for a $99 cable that takes one of your USB ports. Now Apple wants to put a non-replaceable battery in a pro machine so it's thinner. Total BS!
It's time for SJ to get his head screwed on straight. And if he doesn't he should be axed.
Don
With all the leaks that we had in the last events, it's hard to conclude anything other then this being partly truth, at least. I don't see how someone would come with this themself then spread this.
I have a hard understanding why Apple would do this. No access to the battery nor the hard drives (If they remove the cover and make the bottom one whole piece) and maybe no access to the ram too. I was expectiong buying a 17'' Macbook Pro or an BTO 15'' in a few years when if I get employed... Look like I'm going to go with the 15'', if the design decisions don't go to the 15' too!
I have a hard understanding why Apple would do this. No access to the battery nor the hard drives (If they remove the cover and make the bottom one whole piece) and maybe no access to the ram too. I was expectiong buying a 17'' Macbook Pro or an BTO 15'' in a few years when if I get employed... Look like I'm going to go with the 15'', if the design decisions don't go to the 15' too!
What I find amusing about this thread is that most of the people complaining about the battery are probably not in the market for the 17" MBP. Also, in Apples defense, we don't know what new battery technology they are going to announce. It was rumored that one of the reasons for the delay was so they could work out some technical details. What if that included a new battery technology that far surpasses what is currently available? Would you be willing to give up user-replaceable battery if it was extended to 8 hours and lasted for 3 years? I'm just saying....
Wow, are you just venting for no reason other than to blow steam, or does the changes Apple has made personally affect you that much? Excuse me, but I think your reaction is a bit over the top and I encourage you to give Apple the chance to evolve their product. I remember a few years ago when Apple decided to dump the floppy drive and a bunch of people got pissed. Amazing that we actually have got along without that floppy drive after all. If you are so upset with Apple try to remember that there are OTHER computer makers out there. Good luck with that.
Highly unlikely though... When it comes to powering mobile computers, Apple seems to be having trouble getting it's batteries to last into double figures.
IF they released a MBP with a battery like that, no problem.
However, given a lot of peoples' experiences with batteries in Apple portables - random shutdowns, bulging batteries, battery recalls (all of which I've experienced) - then the very last thing most of us would want permanently attached to any MacBook of ours is a battery supplied by Apple.
You guys realize that Apple spends millions on research first. They know what WE want better than we do, all of these moves are a strategic move and are not just random acts to piss of "pro" users.
Uh, no they don't. From the horse's mouth from an interview with fortune
Steve Jobs said:
I didn't say they did marketing research on users.
That we is their 21,000+ "Pro" user employees. I think that fits the bill for testing a real user that uses the computer everyday for work and home use. The majority wins, if 51% of the people want internal batteries then guess what, the next macbook pro will have internal batteries. There is a reason for this...
BAD BAD BAD Move
I am an IT Professional, and I run a program that deals with HUNDREDS of units of Apple and PC laptops, high end 17" machines in design environments.
THIS IS HORRIBLE, if it is true.
I have been supporting Apple laptops since before the 17" laptop EXISTED, and I have never seen the good in an irreplaceable battery.
I don't even care THAT much about the cycle duration, as I care about the battery lifetime.
We are on a 3 year contract with our laptops, and the batteries are almost all depleted to minutes, not hours, of use by that point. It is bad enough that a volume customer like me cannot get a battery coverage warranty, which I can accept. I have to tell users that they have to replace the battery themselves, at their own cost.
But now if I can't tell them that, or if the costs get HIGHER due to the warranty-elligible labor of disassembly to replace a battery inside the casing, I am going to be on the brunt of a lot of angry users in about 42 months from now, or a bit less.
Not to mention the problems with battery swelling that I have seen. Will an encased battery swell destroy the casing of the computer, if it is not an exposed surface itself? Will AppleCare cover a swollen computer case, or a ruptured battery (I hope a ruptured LiPo or LiIon battery doesn't rupture and catch FIRE if it is not replaceable, and rigidly enclosed. A portable, random fire bomb.)
Not only that, but I thought the big new service improvement on the 15" MacBook Pro was that the hard drive was replaceable via the battery bay, rather than having to send the machine in to have a faulty hard drive replaced. I can replace hard drives in seconds, literally, on every machine I have, except the Apples, which require almost an hour of labor, which I must defer to the AppleCare authorized provider, in order to keep the warranty intact.
With a built in battery, will there even be access to RAM and HDD replacement? (probably RAM, but if they are stupid enough to enclose the battery, who the heck knows???)
This, from an IT and service standpoint is a HORRIBLE decision.
I am an IT Professional, and I run a program that deals with HUNDREDS of units of Apple and PC laptops, high end 17" machines in design environments.
THIS IS HORRIBLE, if it is true.
I have been supporting Apple laptops since before the 17" laptop EXISTED, and I have never seen the good in an irreplaceable battery.
I don't even care THAT much about the cycle duration, as I care about the battery lifetime.
We are on a 3 year contract with our laptops, and the batteries are almost all depleted to minutes, not hours, of use by that point. It is bad enough that a volume customer like me cannot get a battery coverage warranty, which I can accept. I have to tell users that they have to replace the battery themselves, at their own cost.
But now if I can't tell them that, or if the costs get HIGHER due to the warranty-elligible labor of disassembly to replace a battery inside the casing, I am going to be on the brunt of a lot of angry users in about 42 months from now, or a bit less.
Not to mention the problems with battery swelling that I have seen. Will an encased battery swell destroy the casing of the computer, if it is not an exposed surface itself? Will AppleCare cover a swollen computer case, or a ruptured battery (I hope a ruptured LiPo or LiIon battery doesn't rupture and catch FIRE if it is not replaceable, and rigidly enclosed. A portable, random fire bomb.)
Not only that, but I thought the big new service improvement on the 15" MacBook Pro was that the hard drive was replaceable via the battery bay, rather than having to send the machine in to have a faulty hard drive replaced. I can replace hard drives in seconds, literally, on every machine I have, except the Apples, which require almost an hour of labor, which I must defer to the AppleCare authorized provider, in order to keep the warranty intact.
With a built in battery, will there even be access to RAM and HDD replacement? (probably RAM, but if they are stupid enough to enclose the battery, who the heck knows???)
This, from an IT and service standpoint is a HORRIBLE decision.
It depends on how it is implemented...
Well, there are many permutations of how this might work that aren't deal breakers.
1a. The battery is replaceable with the removal of a few screws, like the MBA. This would mean the dead battery situation is not too big an issue if it occurs once every year or so. Plus...
1b. In addition to the above, Apple also provide an external "uber-battery" that has a very long user time, perhaps working via the MagSafe connector, so those that truly need power-on-the-move can have it albeit as an external lump.
2. There could be both an internal and a removable battery, this would be great, especially if the battery bay could also be used accommodate an additional drive if chosen.
The real deal-breaker will be if it only has a gloss screen option. I was waiting to buy the 15" prior to its announcement, but didn't because of the no matte screen option. The knock-on effect of this was that I also didn't buy an iPhone 3G and a MobileMe account as I currently don't own an Intel Mac and wouldn't have got the full functionality.
Personally, I am hoping the 17" will have a matte screen option. Even more so, after all the bad feedback, it would be nice to see Apple introduce a matte option on the 15" as well, but I won't hold my breath on that. Unfortunately for me, no matte screen on this announcement means a sabatical on Windoze until Apple decide matte is "de-rigeur" again. Having used Macs for 15 years, this feels like agreeing to have a septic limb amputated, I really don't want to see it go, but I just won't have the choice - Poo & Wee.
Well, there are many permutations of how this might work that aren't deal breakers.
1a. The battery is replaceable with the removal of a few screws, like the MBA. This would mean the dead battery situation is not too big an issue if it occurs once every year or so. Plus...
1b. In addition to the above, Apple also provide an external "uber-battery" that has a very long user time, perhaps working via the MagSafe connector, so those that truly need power-on-the-move can have it albeit as an external lump.
2. There could be both an internal and a removable battery, this would be great, especially if the battery bay could also be used accommodate an additional drive if chosen.
The real deal-breaker will be if it only has a gloss screen option. I was waiting to buy the 15" prior to its announcement, but didn't because of the no matte screen option. The knock-on effect of this was that I also didn't buy an iPhone 3G and a MobileMe account as I currently don't own an Intel Mac and wouldn't have got the full functionality.
Personally, I am hoping the 17" will have a matte screen option. Even more so, after all the bad feedback, it would be nice to see Apple introduce a matte option on the 15" as well, but I won't hold my breath on that. Unfortunately for me, no matte screen on this announcement means a sabatical on Windoze until Apple decide matte is "de-rigeur" again. Having used Macs for 15 years, this feels like agreeing to have a septic limb amputated, I really don't want to see it go, but I just won't have the choice - Poo & Wee.
Only Apple would do such a strange thing
Apple under Steve Jobs does not like the End User to have access to any of their products. Only the Intel MacPro has a limited ability to be changed by the end User. They also make it very hard to do much.
With the current small & pretty winning hands down to being sized to do the needed & wanted job the idea of a fixed battery in the 17" laptop seems to fill the bill. Having a rechargeable electric razor that is now over 40 years old with many battery changes in that time came as a sealed unit. In order to change the non-user replaceable battery the unit had to be split at its seams. That would mean that the Intel MacPro would have to be marred & pried for by the average user in order to make what should be a simple battery replacement. This battery replacement may be because the laptop is several years old & the battery is just well beyond its useful life. Or it could be that the laptop is being used as a true battery powered portable in an area that does not have any available AC power to recharge the battery. We do that when we go to the mountains far from any power on the trail. In that case 2, 3, or even 4 or more batteries are useful.
Some say that they do not use their laptop by battery power, but still for some reason would rather have a longer discharge time over an easy replaceable battery. If you don't use the battery why care whether it even has a battery. For those people an easy removable battery means that the battery could be removed when not needed & much weight could be saved.
A longer run time for many is handy, but is that better done by having a replaceable battery rather than just a larger one?
My PowerBook is now a little over 4 years old. For those that use their battery a lot that could mean a coupe of battery changes. Battery changes should be a user replaceable item. With Apple there is nothing that they want to be user replaceable.
Apple under Steve Jobs does not like the End User to have access to any of their products. Only the Intel MacPro has a limited ability to be changed by the end User. They also make it very hard to do much.
With the current small & pretty winning hands down to being sized to do the needed & wanted job the idea of a fixed battery in the 17" laptop seems to fill the bill. Having a rechargeable electric razor that is now over 40 years old with many battery changes in that time came as a sealed unit. In order to change the non-user replaceable battery the unit had to be split at its seams. That would mean that the Intel MacPro would have to be marred & pried for by the average user in order to make what should be a simple battery replacement. This battery replacement may be because the laptop is several years old & the battery is just well beyond its useful life. Or it could be that the laptop is being used as a true battery powered portable in an area that does not have any available AC power to recharge the battery. We do that when we go to the mountains far from any power on the trail. In that case 2, 3, or even 4 or more batteries are useful.
Some say that they do not use their laptop by battery power, but still for some reason would rather have a longer discharge time over an easy replaceable battery. If you don't use the battery why care whether it even has a battery. For those people an easy removable battery means that the battery could be removed when not needed & much weight could be saved.
A longer run time for many is handy, but is that better done by having a replaceable battery rather than just a larger one?
My PowerBook is now a little over 4 years old. For those that use their battery a lot that could mean a coupe of battery changes. Battery changes should be a user replaceable item. With Apple there is nothing that they want to be user replaceable.
New technologies
You know, there is another technology nobody here has even mentioned: Supercapacitors. These devices have already been manufactured on at least a small scale and are capable of both rapid charge and almost unlimited cycles. Depending on the circuitry involved, it looks like long 'battery' cycle time and essentially unlimited 'battery' life is not only feasible, but likely. Why couldn't the new MacBook take advantage of this?
You know, there is another technology nobody here has even mentioned: Supercapacitors. These devices have already been manufactured on at least a small scale and are capable of both rapid charge and almost unlimited cycles. Depending on the circuitry involved, it looks like long 'battery' cycle time and essentially unlimited 'battery' life is not only feasible, but likely. Why couldn't the new MacBook take advantage of this?
By that logic, we should all be running windows instead of OSX. It should be good enough because its the choice of over well 51% of users. There is money in users who demand something more the average consumer.