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2007 Formula One Thread
- Thread starter R.Youden
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I was thinking they might not DSQ them but instead tell them that they score no points - they would stay ranked in front of Hamilton, but not be awarded any points for those positions...
It would probably be simpler and less messy just to fine them.
It would probably be simpler and less messy just to fine them.
Yeah that would be a bit messy. I imagine they will just get a fine, but if they get a performance advantage then they may get disqualified.
after all the fia has done this year to ensure Hamilton wins,and don't get me started on that, this would be the last straw. If the championship were to be decided by teams who were not in contention and given to a driver in a silver un-badged Ferrari , I'll be watching a1gp next year. Thats my two cents.
So if the 3 cars concerned are illegal then you will let them off just because it isn't fair? Unfortunately if they have gained an extra 5-10hp from this then they have broken the rules and deserve to be kicked out, sorry. I would be very sorry for Kimi as I think he deserved it, but they have to stick by the rules.
This is a really unfortunate situation...
Logically, I agree that some sanctions must be placed on any team that breaks the rules. However, I don't think Hamilton would like to 'win' in this manner.
The way the season's ended, points-wise, is superb. The three drivers have all been outstanding and although there can be only one champion, Alonso and Hamilton both ran some great races.
Emotionally, I'd hate to see Kimi denied a championship in this way, just as I think it'd be a disservice to Hamilton for him to win on a technicality. Kimi's worked damn hard for this and is a worthy champion.
I don't know how this'll unfold, but I sincerely hope it won't change the final drivers' standings.
(by the way, I watched this race at Bluewater Cinema... Absolutely awesome up on the big screen, with some commentary which underlined how poor James Allen is.)
I believe that was the stop they sent Hamilton out on the super-soft tyres (with the white stripe on them). They wouldn't have lasted more than about 15 or so laps anyway, so they only fuelled him for the distance the tyres would last, thus ensuring he had the lightest car possible with which to try to make up some time.
Logically, I agree that some sanctions must be placed on any team that breaks the rules. However, I don't think Hamilton would like to 'win' in this manner.
The way the season's ended, points-wise, is superb. The three drivers have all been outstanding and although there can be only one champion, Alonso and Hamilton both ran some great races.
Emotionally, I'd hate to see Kimi denied a championship in this way, just as I think it'd be a disservice to Hamilton for him to win on a technicality. Kimi's worked damn hard for this and is a worthy champion.
I don't know how this'll unfold, but I sincerely hope it won't change the final drivers' standings.
(by the way, I watched this race at Bluewater Cinema... Absolutely awesome up on the big screen, with some commentary which underlined how poor James Allen is.)
I believe that was the stop they sent Hamilton out on the super-soft tyres (with the white stripe on them). They wouldn't have lasted more than about 15 or so laps anyway, so they only fuelled him for the distance the tyres would last, thus ensuring he had the lightest car possible with which to try to make up some time.
If they go so far as to disqualify/penalise Rosberg, Kubica and Heidfeld and in doing so install Hamilton as champion it will be a really sour end to the season.
Considering that the issue relates to the fuel the BMW and Williams team were using (having possibly fallen more than 10C below air temperature, which is not allowed in the regulations), this seems like a relatively minor issue that should not result in Kimi losing the title.
Edit: Speed TV just said that the FIA would not penalise the teams so the current standings will remain.
Considering that the issue relates to the fuel the BMW and Williams team were using (having possibly fallen more than 10C below air temperature, which is not allowed in the regulations), this seems like a relatively minor issue that should not result in Kimi losing the title.
Edit: Speed TV just said that the FIA would not penalise the teams so the current standings will remain.
i saw it at the greenwich odeon. watching the highlights now on itv and i must say martin's commentary shows just how poor the f1 in cinema one was.
UPDATE: no penalty for sauber and williams. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63567
Things go Ferrari's way yet again...
I'm sure if it was the other way round and McLaren won the FIA would have disqualified BMW and Sauber.
Of course things go Ferrari's way again, that's because FIA stands for Ferrari's International Aid.
It's not like it was a one off thing with the fuel temps.
From the BBC...
"Heidfeld's fuel was 13C lower than ambient at his first stop and 12C lower at his second.
Kubica's varied by 14C, 13C and 13C at his three stops, while Rosberg's was 13C and 12C out at his two stops."
Now it may not have made any difference to the final placing in the race due to Hamilton's problems when his car slowed down, but rules are rules. If they found a problem and it clearly breached the rules then Heidfeld, Kubica and Rosberg should be disqualified.
I think that over the winter the FIA needs to sit down with the rule book and outline punishments for each breach of a particular rule. In my opinion any breach which gives you any advantage during the race deserves a DQ, even if you may not have gained any more points.
So did you bother to read the rest of that article, or just the parts that suit you?
They set the president for that a long time ago, I guess we've all forgotten that Hamilton broke the rules on Friday and only the team was punished?
Oh yeah, and then there was the whole spy saga. In my opinion, it could be argued Hamilton and Alonso shouldn't even have finished the season.
Wow, you are a happy chappy...
Yes I did read the whole article, but posted the bit that states where the rules were broken.
So did you read my whole post? You know the bit where I mentioned that it wouldn't have made any difference to where they finished? Or did you just read the bit that suited you?
Ok, so Button and Sato (?) as well... For the difference it makes...
Point being, it would have made a difference, had Hamiltion finished higher...
Ferrari fans read things to do with rules like the team.
I'm not even going to bother...
If they decide to alter the scores afterwards, then they should punish Hamilton for the crap he pulled with the safety-car a while back. They should also re-evaluate the punishment for the spying-affair, for which they came off lightly.
Seriously: Even if the gasoline-complaint has merit, it's effect on the final results would have been neglible (IIRC, about one second). McLaren really shouldn't start throwing stones when they are in a glass house.
Seriously: Even if the gasoline-complaint has merit, it's effect on the final results would have been neglible (IIRC, about one second). McLaren really shouldn't start throwing stones when they are in a glass house.
The Ferrari floor, as it stood at the time was legal. It passed the testing procedure that was then in place to establish the legality of the car. Was it within the spirit of the rules? That would certainly be up for debate.
Interestingly, if we consider that McLaren also had to make changes to their own car to pass the new procedure, would could assume that McLaren themselves were maybe not operating within the spirit of the rules either, otherwise no changes would have been required by them.
We should maybe also not forget that McLaren's clarification was based on stolen confidential information from a rival team.
And where was this Aid the last 2 previous seasons?
Or the proceeding 16 years prior to 1999?
Or 1990 perhaps?
Don't forget Nigel Stepney had details of the McLaren car whilst he was employed by Ferrari.
i guess you must have missed the part of the season when it was PROVEN that McLaren CHEATED, but FIA only gave them a slap on the wrist and handed Alonso and Hamilton a booklet of free 'get out of jail" cards....
the temp issue is a non-issue:
- there are contradicting reports on what the ambient temp was and what the fuel temp was. some scenario would make the temp illegal, some not. no penalty were issued because it couldn't be decided which the correct data were.
- bmw and williams were apparently the only two teams tested, the refueling rigs are standardized and the temperature in brazil was much higher than anticipated. maybe the teams were not in control of the temp situation?
- the OVERALL gain from a difference of 2-3ºC at refueling would add up to whopping grand total of LESS than 1 second advantage over the entire race distance.
- precedent suggest that these kind of infractions (if they occur) are penalized with a fine or at most constructor's points. the effect on the WCC would be exactly zero, all the teams would maintain the exact same position s even if the constructor points were docked from bmw and williams
Lewis lost the championship because he choked in the last two races, and particularly yesterday with two major mistakes.
If anything, FIA and FOM have protected hamilton all season, so Ron Dennis should just let it go, and realize that he doesn't need to add "sore loser" to the 'cheater' title he already won this year.
start working on the '08 car already, and give hamilton a chance to win fair and square.