2007 Harpertown Stoakley-Seaburg Motherboard With New Graphics Cards 8-Core Mac Pro

[AidenShaw]

WellAny recent ATI and/or nVidia card has its own fan and massive heat sink attached.

Actually, there are very capable cards available with passive heat sinks for Home Theatre PC applications (e.g. http://www.evga.com/products/moreinfo.asp?pn=256-P2-N549-TR&family=22)

And the cards, alone, will drown out any reasonable conversation you're trying to have.

I have an Nvidia Quadro FX 3450 in my octo-box - and it screams *up until the time* that the graphics driver is loaded. From there on, the fan is hard to hear even with the cover off the box.

Of course, heavy 3D work or a hot room will make it spin faster - but that's true of any laptop or PC.

Call it what you want. It's not an engineering failure. It's called a TRADE OFF. When you become an engineer, you can learn about those. ;-)

I'd call it a "fashion tragedy" - when the style requirement for "thin" gets in the way of the engineering needed to support the components.

"Engineering failure" due to fashion requirements.

 

[yippy]

funny you mention learning about engineering

If you like, I suppose it could be called an engineering failure requiring an engineering trade off.

You only make trade offs when you fail to find a solution which provides two desirable outcomes.

You are clearly not an engineer. Tradeoffs are not engineering failures, they are a fact of life. Anything and everything an engineer does is trading off in some way. What you can do is completely dependent on what priorities you have and the tradeoffs necessary to meat those goals.

Apple clearly puts noise and power consumption above speed. In this case, they ended up with exactly what they were trying for.

 

[AidenShaw]

Originally Posted by AidenShaw
Couldn't even afford a full gig?

Put some memory in it - you'll be surprised how much faster it is with even 2 GiB !!​

Take a reading course. LMFAO!

Actually, if we're making suggestions about supplemental education, I'd like to suggest that you take a concise writing course.

You wrote "8gb", which is 8,000,000,000 bits - or about 0.931 GiB of RAM.

Remember that "b" is bits, and "B" is bytes.

 

[jasonvp]

Sub-thread: Video Cards

So, sincere question to you guys:

Why are several folks unhappy with the video card offerings on the Mac Pro? Is it just because they're yesterday's cards? Or is there some specific feature you're looking for on newer cards?

I've seen mention DX10. Is that the main reason? DX10 isn't supported under OS X, right? That's purely an Windblows thing (ie, run it w/bootcamp,) isn't it? How about games? Are games the reason?

Let's say your Mac is purely for photo editing, video editing, as well as the normal Internet usage (surfing, email, etc). I assume these current offerings are more than adequate? I ask because I'm on the cusp of buying one. I won't ever run bootcamp/Windblows on it (what a waste!) I won't ever play games with it. It'll purely be a photo/video editing workhorse, as well as my normal Internet appliance.

For game playing, I stick to my WinXP-equipped PC with 2 nVidias, lots of RAM, etc. The only thing that second machine does is play games. No surfing, no email, etc. So for me, personally, I don't need a machine that can handle 3D games, Windblows, etc. I've already got that.

So are the newer video cards really helpful when it comes to work? Are are you guys mainly looking at them for 3D/gaming/GL/DirectX/etc?

jas

 

[empezar]

So, sincere question to you guys:

Why are several folks unhappy with the video card offerings on the Mac Pro? Is it just because they're yesterday's cards? Or is there some specific feature you're looking for on newer cards?

I've seen mention DX10. Is that the main reason? DX10 isn't supported under OS X, right? That's purely an Windblows thing (ie, run it w/bootcamp,) isn't it? How about games? Are games the reason?

Let's say your Mac is purely for photo editing, video editing, as well as the normal Internet usage (surfing, email, etc). I assume these current offerings are more than adequate? I ask because I'm on the cusp of buying one. I won't ever run bootcamp/Windblows on it (what a waste!) I won't ever play games with it. It'll purely be a photo/video editing workhorse, as well as my normal Internet appliance.

For game playing, I stick to my WinXP-equipped PC with 2 nVidias, lots of RAM, etc. The only thing that second machine does is play games. No surfing, no email, etc. So for me, personally, I don't need a machine that can handle 3D games, Windblows, etc. I've already got that.

So are the newer video cards really helpful when it comes to work? Are are you guys mainly looking at them for 3D/gaming/GL/DirectX/etc?

jas

aperture needs a fast 3d accelerator card, so a better video card would be nice.

 

[flappo]

the x1900 isn't exactly what i'd call slow...

 

[empezar]

the x1900 isn't exactly what i'd call slow...

the 2.66ghz xeons aren't exactly what i'd call slow either.

let's not upgrade mac pro for another year, perhaps 2? nevermind the better components available.

 

[macenforcer]

the 2.66ghz xeons aren't exactly what i'd call slow either.

let's not upgrade mac pro for another year, perhaps 2? nevermind the better components available.

Sounds good.

 

[flappo]

i don't get you lot

if you want to 'attempt' to stay on the cutting edge , take my advice

NEVER buy a mac , ever

build yourself a pc , that way you can try and keep up with things without remortgaging the house or having a coronary from worry

macs have never been about the latest and greatest , that's why they keep their second hand value better than pc's , as macs just don't get updated nearly as often

it helps keep things in order

 

[suneohair]

i don't get you lot

if you want to 'attempt' to stay on the cutting edge , take my advice

NEVER buy a mac , ever

build yourself a pc , that way you can try and keep up with things without remortgaging the house or having a coronary from worry

macs have never been about the latest and greatest , that's why they keep their second hand value better than pc's , as macs just don't get updated nearly as often

it helps keep things in order

And we are back to the "you'll be waiting forever" crap. Great.

Lets make a visual for you, maybe you will understand that (hey some people are visual learners). Ok. I am going to use this sin graph to show my point, i take no credit for its making and lets not turn this into a math debate. K.

Ok. As we can see we have a high peak and then it dips. Imagine that the the life cycle of a computer, in this case the Mac Pro. The Mac Pro would be at the bottom of its cycle as far as the age of its components, if not at the very bottom it is close. What we are trying to do is jump on that next upswing, when the Mac Pro has been refreshed. Does this make sense to you? We, we at least I, am not going to keep waiting I simply am not going to buy a product that is a year old and thus at or near the bottom of its cycle.

If someone else feels a different. Please post your feelings. But this, never buy a Mac crap is ridiculous and worthless, go find something else to do. Worthless because it isn't something I, and I am sure others, didn't know. Also, Remember if I want to wait, I can, I have that right. Just like those who want to buy, can buy. Words from flappo himself.

 

[Tallest Skil]

Pure sin graph ownage. Lemme guess; Made on a Mac, right? To get on topic, I'm waiting, not because I particularly want to, but because I'm not going to college until next year. I just don't want to walk into college with an two-years outdated computer. It'll be around this time next year that I buy my Mac Pro. I hope, though, that they've JUST updated so that I'm not complaining about having to get a year old Stoakley-Seaburg with an outdated Radeon HD X2900 XTX...

 

[Octobot]

I'm going to just say the obvious. They've updated the laptops.. an iMac update is around the corner.. throw in a couple of new ipods and then we are left with the workstations.

So sooner or later we will get a new tower.. and the dust will settle.
Whatever they add/update will be a nice refresh/breath of fresh air and in combination with Leopard will proove to be the best of friends..

 

[tribe3]

aperture needs a fast 3d accelerator card, so a better video card would be nice.

The X1900 isn't stopping Aperture a single bit.

 

[empezar]

The X1900 isn't stopping Aperture a single bit.

a better one would do even better though?

 

[Trekkie]

The X1900 isn't stopping Aperture a single bit.

Yeah works great for me too, typically the hard drive bottleneck slows it down before the processor, memory, or video card.

 

[Trekkie]

a better one would do even better though?

not at all, you're I/O bound well before teh proc/memory/video card comes into play. Moving 6MB + files around and reading them/generating previews waits on the disk(s) more than anything. Mine are always thrashing and I've got > 2.0GB Free/Inactive if I look at activity monitor.

 

[DZL]

i don't get you lot

if you want to 'attempt' to stay on the cutting edge , take my advice

NEVER buy a mac , ever

build yourself a pc , that way you can try and keep up with things without remortgaging the house or having a coronary from worry

macs have never been about the latest and greatest , that's why they keep their second hand value better than pc's , as macs just don't get updated nearly as often

it helps keep things in order

Flappo - we get it. you've stated your opinion. you are happy with your mac pro.

I think all of us who are professionals - that may include you, Flappo, no disrespect - (video, 3d, etc.) - these seemingly minor things like a current video card, more that 1 GIG OF RAM standard, become important.

When I decide to drop $4300 for an 8-core "pro" machine, it had better come with AT LEAST as much ram as their "pro" laptop does - and have a card that isn't over a year old in it.

I shouldn't have to upgrade my RAM immediately after dropping that kind of money.

DZL.

 

[Trekkie]

I think all of us who are professionals

you can't be one, because you then say something non-professional like

When I decide to drop $4300 for an 8-core "pro" machine, it had better come with AT LEAST as much ram as their "pro" laptop does - and have a card that isn't over a year old in it.

I've been working with professionals that buy computer equipment for over 15 years now. At any given time that they need equipment that solves a problem for them the last thing they care about is how much memory is in it standard, or what video card it has and how old it is compared to other models available.

They want the price, and the configuration, and they order it that way. THey don't log on to a forum and complain about the age of a video card, how much memory comes in it, and all sorts of crazy things I've seen in this thread.

They buy the computer when they need it, because waiting costs them money. That's it, plain and simple.

This thread has been hanging around for months waiting for something. Nothings shown up, and nothing will probably until my bet of 1Q08 at the earliest. Waiting for something that is always around the corner is non-professional. For no more than video cards cost relative to the rest of the system waiting around for the next big thing is a huge waste of time as well.

Guess what, about six months after the 45 nm core comes out a new proc is gonna come out, and six months later another one will come out, and another, and another. You'll wait forever and loose your 'job' if your a professional that plays that stupid game. Use your tools, when you need new ones, you replace them. You don't hang out hoping the new tool will get here soon especially from a vendor like apple that never tells you when the new tool is going to show up.

 

[Wild-Bill]

THey don't log on to a forum and complain about the age of a video card, how much memory comes in it, and all sorts of crazy things I've seen in this thread.

This is macrumors after all, isn't it?? Isn't 75% of this forum dedicated to rumors?

Waiting for something that is always around the corner is non-professional. For no more than video cards cost relative to the rest of the system waiting around for the next big thing is a huge waste of time as well.

In this case I have to disagree. We are on the cusp of HUGE price drops from Intel: the desktop line on the 22nd and all of the Xeons on the 29th. That, coupled with the fact that FBDIMMs have decreased significantly in price since last year's introduction of the Mac Pro, leads me and others to believe that something IS coming, and soon. We're days away from the Mac Pro's one year anniversary, with nary an update the entire time, save for the 8-core "option", which really isn't a bona-fide update, simply a drop-in option. And all of the current video card offerings are at LEAST a year and a half old.

This isn't the only forum where the Mac Pro updates are being discussed either. People want value for their dollar and I, like many others, am going to wait until Apple gives the Mac Pro a real refresh.

 

[flappo]

i'm sure we'll see a speed bump

2 to 2.3 , 2.6 to 2.81 , 3 to 3.1

slightly better - and probably even noisier - video cards

maybe even a blu ray option ?

if people think that's worth waiting for - go for it

the reduction in cpu cost simply means more profit for apple , they're not gonna reduce the price - ever

 

[Wild-Bill]

i'm sure we'll see a speed bump
the reduction in cpu cost simply means more profit for apple , they're not gonna reduce the price - ever

That's just the genius of it. They can create an all octo-core lineup and still maintain the same profit margin, and look like heroes at the same time.

I, for one, am glad I still have my PC and 12" Powerbook to tide me over. I'll probably never get rid of the Powerbook I love it so much. The PC, on the other hand, will be saying siyonara.

 

[DZL]

you can't be one, because you then say something non-professional like

I've been working with professionals that buy computer equipment for over 15 years now. At any given time that they need equipment that solves a problem for them the last thing they care about is how much memory is in it standard, or what video card it has and how old it is compared to other models available.

They want the price, and the configuration, and they order it that way. THey don't log on to a forum and complain about the age of a video card, how much memory comes in it, and all sorts of crazy things I've seen in this thread.

They buy the computer when they need it, because waiting costs them money. That's it, plain and simple.

This thread has been hanging around for months waiting for something. Nothings shown up, and nothing will probably until my bet of 1Q08 at the earliest. Waiting for something that is always around the corner is non-professional. For no more than video cards cost relative to the rest of the system waiting around for the next big thing is a huge waste of time as well.

Guess what, about six months after the 45 nm core comes out a new proc is gonna come out, and six months later another one will come out, and another, and another. You'll wait forever and loose your 'job' if your a professional that plays that stupid game. Use your tools, when you need new ones, you replace them. You don't hang out hoping the new tool will get here soon especially from a vendor like apple that never tells you when the new tool is going to show up.

well, all i can say is, if you're losing patience because people are speculating on when the upgrade for the mac pro is coming, you may be on the wrong site. Maybe next time you see a thread thats been around a month or so, you'll simply pass it up, and move onto the next one.

i'm on here because i'm a recent switcher, and am learning a lot. i want to make sure i'm making the best purchase possible. you call it playing a 'stupid game', but I call it making an informed purchase.

i wish apple had six month product cycles. from what i've read, it's been almost year since the mac pro has been upgraded...

and yes, i am a professional - and i have a machine that will get the job done - but it could be improved. will i pay top-dollar for a 'pro' machine with 1GB of RAM and a year-old vid card? No I will not.

dzl

 

[flappo]

after all the waiting in the 'good old days' , i DID think things might be different this time

a year between refreshes IS a bit crazy , especially when apple have gone intel and the hardware is basically identical to pc's

 

[Umbongo]

after all the waiting in the 'good old days' , i DID think things might be different this time

a year between refreshes IS a bit crazy , especially when apple have gone intel and the hardware is basically identical to pc's

The only bit that could have really been upgraded during this time though, aside from perhaps another quad core choice or offering 2GB of RAM as soon as prices were acceptable, was the graphics card. To do that costs Apple more money and time (money again really) than just sourcing the components. With them having acceptable choices for buyers other than gamers, a market Apple has shown they don't care about, it's easy to see why they have waited this long. It might not benefit the consumer at all, but they are lower down the list than Apple and it's shareholders when it comes to satisfaction.

 

[DZL]

The only bit that could have really been upgraded during this time though, aside from perhaps another quad core choice or offering 2GB of RAM as soon as prices were acceptable, was the graphics card. To do that costs Apple more money and time (money again really) than just sourcing the components. With them having acceptable choices for buyers other than gamers, a market Apple has shown they don't care about, it's easy to see why they have waited this long. It might not benefit the consumer at all, but they are lower down the list than Apple and it's shareholders when it comes to satisfaction.

well, i don't game, but need a robust vid card to handle composite work. from what i've read, the X1900 has been around since last August, so we're creeping in on a year here, and that's a bit long to go without upgrading.

out of principle, i simply won't pay top-dollar for a year old card. if they want to offer the X1900 on a lower system, fine. but at least offer the latest card in the 8-core machine.