Either directly/indirectly impacted another competitors race (which they didn't, but almost did) or gained a sporting advantage, which they didn't (which is why Kubica and whoever else it was) got stop and go's, because they gained a sporting advantage by making a pit-stop under S/C conditions whilst the pitlane was closed.
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2008 Formula One Thread
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Either directly/indirectly impacted another competitors race (which they didn't, but almost did) or gained a sporting advantage, which they didn't (which is why Kubica and whoever else it was) got stop and go's, because they gained a sporting advantage by making a pit-stop under S/C conditions whilst the pitlane was closed.
there is a sensor on the rig and it says when the car is connected and the light should not go off until the light from the rig goes off.
sad race
imagine if they didn't have a release on the fuel hose
I thought the last time they had a bad release (few races ago?) the commentators said the system had an overide capability that an individual could execute (e.g. light going green before fuel rig is release regardless of any sensors).
From hat I understand on the refueling rig situation is that each wheel gun man has a switch which he presses to release the car, there is also a switch the fuel man has to press, and there will be a switch for the no. 1 mechanic to press to release the car into the pits. If you just relied on the 5 'automatic' sensors then the car could be released into traffic 
So for me two questions need answering:
1. Why did the fuel man release his switch? My guess is that it is not the main re-fueler, instead someone who holds the hose, he detected a lurch on the rig and pressed his button. The reason i doubt the re-fueler has a button is that these things are bloody heavy and the extra task of pressing buttons slows things down.
2. The second question, and in my opinion, the most important; why did the no. 1 mechanic have the switch set to release the car when Fissi was in the pit-lane, even if he was expecting the car to be released? There must have only been a couple of tenths of a second in it so he should never have had the switches in a position to release the car.
Therefore, in my opinion, the fault lies with the no. 1 mechanic far more than with the refueling rig.
So for me two questions need answering:
1. Why did the fuel man release his switch? My guess is that it is not the main re-fueler, instead someone who holds the hose, he detected a lurch on the rig and pressed his button. The reason i doubt the re-fueler has a button is that these things are bloody heavy and the extra task of pressing buttons slows things down.
2. The second question, and in my opinion, the most important; why did the no. 1 mechanic have the switch set to release the car when Fissi was in the pit-lane, even if he was expecting the car to be released? There must have only been a couple of tenths of a second in it so he should never have had the switches in a position to release the car.
Therefore, in my opinion, the fault lies with the no. 1 mechanic far more than with the refueling rig.
As ex-Benneton F1 mechanic and SPEED "Technical Color Commentator" Steve Matchett has explained it, the switch is located in the nozzle of the fuel rig. Since he knows most everyone in the garage, I have to assume he's talking from a position of direct knowledge.
When it disconnects from the car's receptacle, it signals the light to go green. I would not be surprised if it did this even should the nozzle still be right next to the car. Since it takes a second or so for the driver to engage the clutch and launch the car, that gives the fuel guy has enough time to pull the nozzle back and away and allow a clear departure.
Since fuel delivery almost always takes more time then tires, I can't see the tire guys having their own switch. Especially since they all still put up their arm, which is the signal to the lead mechanic that they have completed their work. It would also be four more possible points of failure or personnel miscue to cause a longer stop, which this whole light thing is meant to prevent.
What most likely happened at Singapore was the fuel guy started to pull the nozzle, but it jammed. Yet for the moment it was "off" the car's receptacle, that was enough to trigger the green light.
The Head Mechanic can override the lights, and it looks like he either did that or the fuel guy reconnected the hose to try again, since almost as soon as the green light went on, it went off and the red (or amber?) light came back on. But by then, Massa was already launched and could not see it change.
When it disconnects from the car's receptacle, it signals the light to go green. I would not be surprised if it did this even should the nozzle still be right next to the car. Since it takes a second or so for the driver to engage the clutch and launch the car, that gives the fuel guy has enough time to pull the nozzle back and away and allow a clear departure.
Since fuel delivery almost always takes more time then tires, I can't see the tire guys having their own switch. Especially since they all still put up their arm, which is the signal to the lead mechanic that they have completed their work. It would also be four more possible points of failure or personnel miscue to cause a longer stop, which this whole light thing is meant to prevent.
What most likely happened at Singapore was the fuel guy started to pull the nozzle, but it jammed. Yet for the moment it was "off" the car's receptacle, that was enough to trigger the green light.
The Head Mechanic can override the lights, and it looks like he either did that or the fuel guy reconnected the hose to try again, since almost as soon as the green light went on, it went off and the red (or amber?) light came back on. But by then, Massa was already launched and could not see it change.
ya i think this is what happened although i would like to see some video of the light after he left, and exactly when he tries to pull the hose, because if he didn't even try, well theres your problem
Looking at it again, it doesn't look like the re-fueler tries to disengage the hose at all, yet the light turns green, which is when Massa takes off (rightly so), and the light then turns back to red, but it's too late by then.
From what I'm aware of the system, CWallace's description is correct, except in S/C circumstances, whereby the green light is actually operated manually by a mechanic, to prevent unsafe releases in that particular situation, indeed Domenicali has confirmed this to be the case, and confirmed that it was a human error and not an electronic one.
But this incident could, and indeed has happened with a lollipop man in the past, no system is foolproof.
ehh s($* happens
edit:
ha just watched it again,
ha those mechanics need to learn how to run,
ahahaha
edit:
ha just watched it again,
ha those mechanics need to learn how to run,
ahahaha
During the race the same thing happened to David Coulthard although the team use a lollipop.
I guess the difference is its happened more often with the lights at Ferrari and I guess the lollipop guy can bring the lollipop back down quicker right in front of the driver where as Massa saw the green light and was gone.
I guess the difference is its happened more often with the lights at Ferrari and I guess the lollipop guy can bring the lollipop back down quicker right in front of the driver where as Massa saw the green light and was gone.
"Too much Linguine".
Not enough linguine. You need to get some carbs in you the night before.
Not enough linguine. You need to get some carbs in you the night before.
Judging by the size of them, I don't think a lack of carbs was the problem.
Well they have dropped Canada from the World Championship for 2009. How crap is that! So in 2009 there will be no race in North America. So for a "World Championship" the main continents are broken down:
Europe 10
North America 0
South America 1
Asia 6
Australasia 1
So it is no longer a World Championship - more The Formula One Europe and Asia (plus a few others) Championship.
Europe 10
North America 0
South America 1
Asia 6
Australasia 1
So it is no longer a World Championship - more The Formula One Europe and Asia (plus a few others) Championship.
Can't say I'll miss it to be honest, it's a dull track that falls to pieces during the race, and quite frankly is a disgrace to the man it was dedicated to.
Well... it's still more of a World Championship than the World Series for example.
Though, it's still 4 continents... so I think it still qualifies as a World Championship in my humble opinion.
Meanwhile Ferrari have confirmed that they're reverting to the lollipop for the remaining races.
At least it tested the drivers. A dusty track with concrete walls around you so one mistake sticks you into the wall. Far better than a Bahrain where you are never punished for a mistake. Make the drivers work for it rather than handing them a perfect track on a plate.
Haven't seen any discussion of this yet, so Disneyland GP. Oh dear
If you're gonna do it, do it right. Make it Paris to get the attraction of it all.
That bites. I used to go to Montreal when the US did not have a GP.
On the plus side, it seems more and more likely the US will be back on the calendar in 2010 (most likely Las Vegas, again) so North America will be represented again.
Haven't seen any discussion of this yet, so Disneyland GP. Oh dear
I'm surprised he isn't pimping his own Circuit Paul Ricard. It used to hold rounds of the French GP.
The British GP moving from Silverstone to Donnington Park is the real tragedy, IMO.
If only it was Brands. I'd love to see modern F1 cars into Paddock. Of course they'd destroy the track making it suitable for F1 so it's probably best that it's going to Donington Park, not Brands Hatch
If it were actually going to Brands Hatch that wouldn't be so bad. It hosted 14 F1 races in the 60s-80s.
The British GP is moving to Donnington.
Ah yes. The horror was so great that I blocked out the locale.
Thanks for the correction.
Then again, maybe it will be like the 1993 European Grand Prix held there where they had what seemed like a dozen pit stops due to the weather changing lap to lap.
Silverstone is one of the dullest tracks in the UK, so I'm glad to see it moving away. I just hope that Tilke doesn't ruin Donnington with his 'improvements'.
It's a shame to see Montreal dropped. It might have had issues recently with the surface but I always thought it made for a decent race and the drivers/teams don't seem too happy with the decision.
It's definitely stupid to leave North America entirely. A large number of sponsors are American companies, and if Bernie/Max are actually worried about money rather than pushing their ridiculous rule proposals, they would be wise to get a North American GP sorted out as soon as possible.
It's a shame to see Montreal dropped. It might have had issues recently with the surface but I always thought it made for a decent race and the drivers/teams don't seem too happy with the decision.
It's definitely stupid to leave North America entirely. A large number of sponsors are American companies, and if Bernie/Max are actually worried about money rather than pushing their ridiculous rule proposals, they would be wise to get a North American GP sorted out as soon as possible.
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