2009/10 College Football Thread

[SLC Flyfishing]

Meanwhile, Orrin Hatch (Republican Utah Senator) has paired with Max Baucus (Democrat Senator from Montana) and authored a letter to the BC$ comissioner. In the letter they request that the BCS publicly release information on how they distribute money between conferences, what their criteria for determining AQ status is, among other things that the BC$ seems reluctant to discuss.

I'm interested to see their response (I'll bet they don't have one).

Some say that the Senate and House have bigger fish to fry than College Football, but this is important to people from my state, this issue has it's fingers in the State Budget (our state run school get's less money than it could because of the BC$), and it favors schools from other states over state schools from mine. Some of the favored schools take government money (Being state owned) which to me means that the government should have a say in how things are run.

Anyway, a link to the story from our local paper if you're interested in reading.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14640573

SLC

 

[IgnatiusTheKing]

Texas has stated they have no desire to leave Big 12

That's true...for now. They could still be bowled over by an offer they can't refuse, though. The point, as MacDawg alludes to below, is that they aren't the only school being sought in expansion talks anymore. Their window to get the best possible deal for themselves appears to have closed because they aren't the hottest hooker on the street anymore.

That's the only real reason I can see for their sudden, public admission that they might be willing to join a conference.

I think the Irish waited too long thinking they were bigger than the conferences
At one time they bargained from a position of strength
Not so any more

How the mighty have fallen

 

[MacNut]

If this happens the Big East is in trouble and it will destroy the College Basketball landscape.

The Big 10 wants Notre Dame, Rutgers, or Pitt or Syracuse, or even UConn from the Big East. So what happens to the rest of the conference, Do they become just basketball or do other conferences come calling.

 

[IgnatiusTheKing]

The Big East is garbage in every sport except basketball, where it's a little overrated. There's a better-than-decent chance that the Big East and Big 12 will both cease to exist in the next couple of years, which is just fine with me. I would assume that the Big 10, Pac 10, SEC and ACC would split up the best* teams from those two leagues and the rest would be left hoping for invites to the MWC or C-USA.




*Best in terms of potential revenue, television markets, academics, student body size, etc.

 

[steve2112]

I think it depends on how many teams move. If it's only one team to give the Big 11 twelve teams, it won't be that bad. I think they will grab someone like Marshall to add to the field. If it's more than one team, then things get dicey. At the very least, I would expect them to lose the automatic BCS bid in football. Of course, a lot of folks think that should happen now.

In the grand scheme of things, I could see the "big 6" conferences becoming 4-5 super conferences with 12-16 teams each. On a personal note, I would rather not see the SEC expand. It's tough enough playing in the conference as it is right now. For example, we play the last three (well, four, since Florida won it twice) national champions on the road this season. Oh joy.

 

[IgnatiusTheKing]

Is Boise going to get an invite to the MWC this week?

Several sources said the MWC could begin the process of inviting Boise State for the following reason (for those who missed my previous report on the matter):

The MWC must invite Boise State by July 1 in order for the Broncos to be a member for the 2011 season … which would allow BSU’s football performance from 2008-10 to be included in the formula that determines whether the MWC receives an automatic bid in the next cycle of BCS games.

link

 

[SLC Flyfishing]

Is Boise going to get an invite to the MWC this week?

Yes, but will the want to take it?

http://cal.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1089778

Chances are high that it's Utah and Colorado the Pac 10 are meeting to discuss extending invites to. If so, and Utah accepts then the MWC gains exactly zero overall.

Rumors have been running rampant here in SLC for weeks now about both BSU in the MWC and Utah in the Pac 10(12), sports casters have even gone as far as to say Utah's invite is already done deal just waiting for a formal vote from Pac 10 presidents.

SLC

 

[steve2112]

Well, it looks like the domino effect might be starting up again. A few years ago, the move of Va. Tech, Miami, and BC started a chain reaction that went through several conferences. It looks like we may be seeing another major shift here. I wonder who the Big 12 will go after to replace Colorado, and maybe even expand beyond 12?

Personally, I would like to see Boise in the MWC. They seem to be building a nice rivalry with TCU.

 

[IgnatiusTheKing]

Yes, but will the want to take it?

http://cal.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1089778

Chances are high that it's Utah and Colorado the Pac 10 are meeting to discuss extending invites to. If so, and Utah accepts then the MWC gains exactly zero overall.

Rumors have been running rampant here in SLC for weeks now about both BSU in the MWC and Utah in the Pac 10(12), sports casters have even gone as far as to say Utah's invite is already done deal just waiting for a formal vote from Pac 10 presidents.

SLC

I don't think the Pac 10 will move on Utah until after the Big 10 makes its initial moves and sees what sort of fallout that has for the Big 12. There has been a lot of speculation that some sort of Pac 10/Big 12 merger could happen, which would add the clout of Texas (the school and the state) as a bargaining chip for the Pac 10 as it begins to negotiate its next TV deal.

Well, it looks like the domino effect might be starting up again. A few years ago, the move of Va. Tech, Miami, and BC started a chain reaction that went through several conferences. It looks like we may be seeing another major shift here. I wonder who the Big 12 will go after to replace Colorado, and maybe even expand beyond 12?

Personally, I would like to see Boise in the MWC. They seem to be building a nice rivalry with TCU.

I'd like to see Boise in the MWC, as well, but I'm not sure we can say there's any rivalry between teams that have played just once.

 

[steve2112]

I don't think the Pac 10 will move on Utah until after the Big 10 makes its initial moves and sees what sort of fallout that has for the Big 12. There has been a lot of speculation that some sort of Pac 10/Big 12 merger could happen, which would add the clout of Texas (the school and the state) as a bargaining chip for the Pac 10 as it begins to negotiate its next TV deal.



I'd like to see Boise in the MWC, as well, but I'm not sure we can say there's any rivalry between teams that have played just once.

I thought I saw when they played in the bowl game last year that it was their 2nd or 3rd time to play each other in the past couple of years.

I've also seen where a lot of the conferences are playing wait and see for the Big 10 to make a move.

 

[IgnatiusTheKing]

I thought I saw when they played in the bowl game last year that it was their 2nd or 3rd time to play each other in the past couple of years.

You're right. I forgot about the Poinsettia Bowl after the '08 season.

TCU is weird, though. Ask a TCU fan, though, and they'll tell you SMU is not their rival and that they don't really have a rival. Some will even tell you that Utah and BYU are their rivals (which is ridiculous).

If you look at things as an outsider, though, it's pretty obvious that SMU is their real rival by virtue of a long, shared history in the old SWC, by virtue of the rivalry between Fort Worth and Dallas (little brother/big brother), and by both being the private schools. I think it mostly stems from the fact that SMU has been entirely irrelevant in football ever since the Death Penalty in the 80s.

I've also seen where a lot of the conferences are playing wait and see for the Big 10 to make a move.

I foresee a future where some of the Big 12 (think Texas, OU, Colorado, Texas A&M, Kansas [if they don't get invited to the Big 10 w/ Missouri and Nebraska], possibly Oklahoma State) leave the Big 12 for one or more megaconferences (possibly the SEC for the more southern schools or some sort of huge Pac-16+ for all of them). I think Colorado is definitely going to end up in the Pac-whatever-it-becomes, but I'm not so sure about Utah moving up a rung in conference affiliation because I don't know what they bring to the table financially (which is what this is all about, in reality).

I think we'll see an expansion of the MWC to include Big 12 castoffs that don't get included in the new Pac-XX like Texas Tech, Baylor, Iowa State, etc. and some sort of split into divisions. With the addition of Boise, they could end up with an auto-bid to the BCS (or whatever replaces it in a few years).

 

[IgnatiusTheKing]

Speculation that the Pac-10 is getting ready to make a major raid on the Big 12 is running rampant right now.

The Texas website OrangeBloods.com, a member of the Rivals.com network, reports the Pac-10 appears prepared to invite Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Colorado to join the conference.

While I would be okay with that scenario, this part really pleases me.

However, one of the six Big 12 teams that would be invited might resist joining the Pac-10. According to the report, Texas A&M AD Bill Byrne is concerned about his student-athletes traveling to the West and returning to College Station at odd hours.

The Aggies' men's and women's basketball teams both traveled to Washington state for the NCAA Tournament this year. According to the report, they couldn't return to campus until 6:30 a.m., and some student-athletes had 8 a.m. classes.

The Aggies might join the SEC, instead. According to the report, Texas A&M officials have had serious conversations with the conference. When asked by the Houston Chronicle this week if the SEC would be an option for the Aggies if the Big 12 broke up, Byrne responded, "It might be. ... You know what? It might be."

 

[dsnort]

Holy thread resurrection, Batman!

Tech in the SEC? I'd have to doubt that one.

 

[IgnatiusTheKing]

Tech in the SEC? I'd have to doubt that one.

Where are you getting Tech to the SEC?

 

[nobunaga209]

^^We talking Georgia Tech or Texas Tech?? Georgia Tech would be interesting with that traditional option style. TTECH on the other hand would get housed VERY quickly and every Saturday.

TCU is weird, though. Ask a TCU fan, though, and they'll tell you SMU is not their rival and that they don't really have a rival. Some will even tell you that Utah and BYU are their rivals (which is ridiculous).

I think, as a Horn Frogs Fan....that Boise State has clearly elevated themselves as our fiercest rival. Especially after that thumping we took during last Bowl Season.

 

[echeck]

Well howdy boys!

Has anyone heard the whispers about expansion??

I think the Boise invite to the MWC is a done deal. There's just waaaay too many rumors running about it. I even have a "heard it from a guy who knows a guy" story. Heh. I was talking to my wife's assistant yesterday and he told me that his brother's BYU track coach straight up told them that the invite was coming.

My only concerns are that the MWC gets raided by the PAC-10/Big 12, and that ridiculous TV contract.

Granted, the TV contract will net Boise State an additional $700,000/yr but one of the biggest reasons Boise State is where it is today is because of national exposure. Will recruiting suffer if we're tucked away on unknown networks? Boise State was on the ESPN family seven times last year. More than any other non-AQ school. I hope the $700,000 will make up for the lack of weekly exposure.

As far as the MWC getting raided, at this point I think a PAC-10/Big 12 merger is a lot more likely than either conference going after a MWC school. And that's not to say that I don't think Utah could do well in the PAC-10, but it's that elitist attitude that runs rampant in the BCS conferences. They're more likely to band together with their own than invite someone else to the party.

The Big 12 is on the verge of collapsing, so I think they would be very receptive to any proposals from the PAC-10.

Bottom line though....

Boise State going to the MWC will be a good thing because if we go then there's a chance the MWC can file for a 2-year exemption for BCS status, so that's huge revenue sharing. But even if Utah or TCU leave then it's more of a lateral move, but with more money. So either way, it's good for Boise State athletics as well as academics. Our academics definitely aren't on par with a lot of other schools, but we would like to get it there, and more money/exposure can only help.

Plus, when the MWC TV contract expires (I've heard 2014 and 2016, not sure which is right) I will almost guarantee that ESPN comes in with a bigger and better deal to win the rights.

 

[steve2112]

Speculation that the Pac-10 is getting ready to make a major raid on the Big 12 is running rampant right now.



While I would be okay with that scenario, this part really pleases me.

Wow, I looked up the distance from College Station to Seattle. He may have a point there. According to Google maps, it's 2,000 plus miles. I was going to make some snarky comment about it being just as far to Gainesville, but it was only 924 miles.

I really don't get why the Big 12 is falling apart. It's a pretty good conference, with some big names in two of the major men's sports. This whole proposal reminds me of the old WAC, with 16 teams spread from Hawaii to Louisiana. They eventually broke up because most of the teams found all that travel too much to handle. Granted, these teams would have a much better travel budget, but it is still a strain. Can you imagine UT making back-to-back road trips to say, Corvallis and Seattle?

 

[P-Worm]

Speculation that the Pac-10 is getting ready to make a major raid on the Big 12 is running rampant right now.

It looks like these rumors have a lot of weight to them, but there's one thing I find confusing. The PAC-10 has always prided themselves as being a conference of elite academic schools. Do they drop that by adding Oklahoma State and Texas Tech? Seems odd to me. However, I'm sure that money is the driving factor more than anything else.

Also, with regards to Boise State joining the Mountain West Conference. I'm kind of torn on the issue. I don't think that the Mountain West will be able to gain BCS AQ status by adding Boise State, and adding them makes it much more difficult for one team to go undefeated. If the Mountain West doesn't get AQ status, I guarantee that a one-loss MWC team doesn't make it to a BCS game. In fact, Boise State to the MWC is probably exactly what the BCS cartels want.

P-Worm

 

[echeck]

In fact, Boise State to the MWC is probably exactly what the BCS cartels want.

That's a good point..

But I honestly think a one-loss MWC "Big Four" would still have the votes to break in to a BCS Bowl.

Or it could end up like the PAC-10 where we all beat up on eachother.

Speaking of, do you think the 10 team MWC would schedule like the PAC-10?

 

[P-Worm]

I don't know how the new MWC would schedule. I will say this, though, I think by adding Boise State, the MWC becomes a tough and fun to watch conference. The upper teams play very different games of football (Air Force's triple option offense can be incredibly hard to prepare for, TCU can be lightening quick, BYU is all about their QB, Utah usually has fast defense and a descent run game, and Boise State keeps you on your toes with the constant threat of some trickery). Even if it means going undefeated being increasingly more difficult, the schedule becomes all the more fun to watch.

P-Worm

 

[IgnatiusTheKing]

^I think, as a Horn Frogs Fan....that Boise State has clearly elevated themselves as our fiercest rival. Especially after that thumping we took during last Bowl Season.

Ridiculous. A true rivalry takes time to develop. Two games in two years does not fit the bill. TCU's real rival is SMU.

I really don't get why the Big 12 is falling apart. It's a pretty good conference, with some big names in two of the major men's sports.

It's all about money. It's not so much that the Big 12 is bad from a competition standpoint, but that a few teams carry all the weight when it comes to TV markets. The fact that Missouri might leave for the Big 10 (taking St. Louis with it) and Colorado has been flirting with the Pac 10 for years (taking Denver out of the equation) means that all you have left are the Texas markets (dominated by Texas and, to a lesser extent, A&M) and Kansas City (KU). The Big 12 has a terrible TV deal and doesn't share revenue equally, so you end up a with a few schools taking a huge slice of the pie (which still isn't as lucrative as the SEC, Big 10 and ACC) and leaving scraps for everyone else. Texas is currently trying like mad to keep the Big 12 together, because they want to start their own network and the Big 12 is the only place that can happen. But if you lose a couple of schools to the Big 10 and another to the Pac 10, the replacement options aren't attractive from a TV market standpoint.

It looks like these rumors have a lot of weight to them, but there's one thing I find confusing. The PAC-10 has always prided themselves as being a conference of elite academic schools. Do they drop that by adding Oklahoma State and Texas Tech?

While the top of the Pac 10 (academically) is loaded with highly-ranked schools like Stanford, Cal, USC and UCLA, the bottom tier, like Arizona State and Oregon, sin't that highly-ranked. Add to that the school at the very bottom, Oregon St., is Tier 3 (just like Ok. St. and Tech), and you can see why it's not as huge a deal to add a couple more mediocre schools when the reality is that money is the overriding factor. A merging of the Pac 10 and Big 12 South (minus Baylor, plus Colorado) means that the "Pac 16" has a chokehold on the entire western half of the United States from a media standpoint. If the only way they can get that to happen is to include the likes of Ok. St. and TT, they will.

 

[echeck]

Ridiculous. A true rivalry takes time to develop. Two games in two years does not fit the bill. TCU's real rival is SMU.

Hey, we've played them three times. We beat them in their own bowl game back in...2003 I believe... And we were in the same conference for a couple years in the early part of the decade, although we never played each other.

But I agree, a true rivalry takes years to develop. The bitterness between Boise State and TCU (at least in the fans) I think is due to the fact that we played each other in Bowl Season in two consecutive years. The first game was a nail-biter, and a one point loss for Boise State, and the next year was TCU's first trip to the BCS. Emotions run high between these two schools. And I think TCU fans really don't like us because I don't think too many TCU fans truly thought we would handle the Horned Frogs in the Fiesta Bowl like we did. I know of a few that thought they already had it in the bag, so when we took it from them they were none too pleased.

If the MWC invite does come down in Boise then I guess we will have the proper time needed to truly nurture the rivalry.

 

[dukebound85]

I don't know how the new MWC would schedule. I will say this, though, I think by adding Boise State, the MWC becomes a tough and fun to watch conference. The upper teams play very different games of football (Air Force's triple option offense can be incredibly hard to prepare for, TCU can be lightening quick, BYU is all about their QB, Utah usually has fast defense and a descent run game, and Boise State keeps you on your toes with the constant threat of some trickery). Even if it means going undefeated being increasingly more difficult, the schedule becomes all the more fun to watch.

P-Worm

*bitterness on*

upper teams? CSU is what made the MWC in the lates 90's/early 00's and was the MWC team going to bowl games and cracking top 20 in the rankings before they fell in a slump as of late... Utah, BYU, AF and all them were not on the same caliber as CSU for quite a while

*bitterness off*

 

[P-Worm]

I am just talking about the immediate future when I mention the upper teams. It must be hard going through the slump you guys are in right now, but I have faith that Fairchild will bring the program around. At the start of last season I thought it was going to be your breakout year. You manhandled Colorado and gave my Utes a big scare as well. It takes time for a team to really come together and start winning, but as of right now, CSU just isn't there.

P-Worm

 

[steve2112]

It's all about money. It's not so much that the Big 12 is bad from a competition standpoint, but that a few teams carry all the weight when it comes to TV markets. The fact that Missouri might leave for the Big 10 (taking St. Louis with it) and Colorado has been flirting with the Pac 10 for years (taking Denver out of the equation) means that all you have left are the Texas markets (dominated by Texas and, to a lesser extent, A&M) and Kansas City (KU). The Big 12 has a terrible TV deal and doesn't share revenue equally, so you end up a with a few schools taking a huge slice of the pie (which still isn't as lucrative as the SEC, Big 10 and ACC) and leaving scraps for everyone else. Texas is currently trying like mad to keep the Big 12 together, because they want to start their own network and the Big 12 is the only place that can happen. But if you lose a couple of schools to the Big 10 and another to the Pac 10, the replacement options aren't attractive from a TV market standpoint.

Wow, I didn't know that about the Big 12 revenue contracts. I thought equal sharing was kind of a norm on those things. It makes me glad we are in the SEC. Given that kind of situation, I can see why Texas would want to keep everything together.