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2009-10 Football Thread

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Lord Blackadder said:
I think the only reason that Man United aren't being attacked by the press as a team in crisis is because Liverpool is doing so badly.

But United are weak at the back this season.
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Before today, United were two points behind Chelsea in the EPL and perfect in their Champions League qualifying matches. They're not playing perfect football but they're getting it done, with the occasional good luck intervening (see vs. Arsenal and Sunderland).

And I wouldn't draw too many conclusions about United's defense from today's match. None of their starting defenders today were first choice players. If O'Shea, Ferdinand, Vidic, and Evra conceded three goals to CSKA at home I'd be genuinely alarmed, but the goal were given up by Neville, Brown, Evans, and Fabio. And Fabio was truly, truly awful today. Evans had to clean up after him all over the place, leaving huge gaps in the back line and CSKA has the quality players to take advantage.

Thankfully, Neville, Brown, Evans, and Fabio won't be starting at Stamford Bridge on Sunday. Evra and Vidic will be back. I think Ferdinand should take as much time as is necessary to get healthy, even if it takes a month or two.

I think the central midfield failed again today. Fletcher had a bad, bad game. Scholes wasn't very good, except for beating his teammate to head in United's second goal.

Gabriel Obertan already looks a lot more dangerous than Nani.
 
Silencio said:
Before today, United were two points behind Chelsea in the EPL and perfect in their Champions League qualifying matches. They're not playing perfect football but they're getting it done, with the occasional good luck intervening (see vs. Arsenal and Sunderland).
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They're not doing as bad as liverpool, but there are some serious questions to be answered about their defence. They've been lucky on numerous occasions this season. 2 points behind Chelsea could have easily been 5.
 
The word 'crisis' is bandied about a little too easily by the media, in my opinion. Liverpool lose a couple of matches and don't progress through Europe with ease - they're a club in crisis. Manchester United aren't as imperious as they once were - they're a club in crisis. It goes without saying that we're a 'crisis club' as well.

However, compared to the problems an ever growing number of lower league clubs are facing these 'crisis clubs' don't know they're born. I'm sure they wouldn't mind swapping their problems for those of their Premier League counterparts. Losing a couple of matches on the bounce, or liquidation? Not a tough choice.

As many of us have said previously, the media have a nasty habit of overplaying any problems while at the same time getting totally overexcited by even the smallest bit of success. Sack the manager/they're going to win the league, delete as applicable.
 
Southend are in crisis. If they don't find a buyer today they go into administration I think (even as a Colchester fan , it's rotten to see clubs go to the wall, even if they are local rivals).

If Liverpool get knocked out of the Big Cup this evening, then I'd say it's definitely a crisis... It puts even more pressure on them to perform in the league, as a failure to get into top four would be equal financial meltdown.

You could also argue that Manchester United are a club in real trouble, being what, £700 mil in debt? If you were to replace MU with, idk, British Airways, and read the headline "BA in crisis with £700M debt" you might think "wow that sounds pretty bad".

I think Arsene was right when he bemoaned "financial doping". I think that most of the big clubs are in financial 'crisis', it's just that we don't know the half of it...
 
Lyon mug Liverpool at the death for the second time in a row.

A dull match overall, and a very frustrating one for Liverpool. Neither team looked very good. We leak too many goals, are mediocre going forward, have little to offer off the bench and are just generally inconsistent. Not fun to watch.

Kyrgiakos is not a very good center back. Torres is playing at 75%. Great strike from Babel - and then he shanked another chance that would have won us the game and flubbed a free-kick attempt in a dangerous position.

capoeirista said:
If Liverpool get knocked out of the Big Cup this evening, then I'd say it's definitely a crisis... It puts even more pressure on them to perform in the league, as a failure to get into top four would be equal financial meltdown.
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Speaking as a Liverpool fan, I'd say that the "crisis" starts only if we finish outside the top four or if Rafa either quits or is sacked. In either of those cases there will incredible pressure on Gillette and Hicks to sell the club, and things could rapidly go downhill.

If, on the other hand, Rafa remains at the helm and we finish in the top four in the league, I merely call it a bad season and look forward to the transfer market for some improvements.

The only thing that changes long-term is that Rafa must improve the squad in January and especially over the summer. Some of our starters should really be substitutes but we have nobody better to replace them. That needs to change. The owners need to make money available and Rafa needs to use it wisely.
 
NathanCH said:
They're not doing as bad as liverpool, but there are some serious questions to be answered about their defence. They've been lucky on numerous occasions this season. 2 points behind Chelsea could have easily been 5.
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They are not as imperious in defense as they were last season when they were setting clean sheet records, but they do have more points at this juncture then they did at this time last year.

"Concern" is a better word than "Crisis". I have concerns if both Vidic and Ferdinand are out. I have concerns if Fabio has to play left back for any length of time. I have concerns that Carrick and Scholes can't get it done in central midfield. I have concerns that Nani has not improved one bit. But which contending team doesn't have equivalent concerns about depth and consistency? There is a lot more parity in the league this season.

Not that I expect a result at Stamford Bridge on Sunday. A draw would be a real accomplishment, but a loss wouldn't be the end of the world. United came back from quite a points deficit last year to win the league. Chelsea's the team to beat and Arsenal is quite dangerous but I remain optimistic.
 
Lord Blackadder said:
The only thing that changes long-term is that Rafa must improve the squad in January and especially over the summer. Some of our starters should really be substitutes but we have nobody better to replace them. That needs to change. The owners need to make money available and Rafa needs to use it wisely.
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Would you trust him with your money? He's hardly shone in the transfer market recently...

And yes I know Ferguson et al have made terrible buys, but I think the fact that Kyrgiakos is even at the club, let alone was playing tonight, suggests that transfer money might well have been spent more wisely this summer...
 
I'm not going to defend Rafa's transfer history, but I'm worried that sacking him will do more harm than good.

There is absolutely no guarantee that we will get a better manager in to replace him, no guarantee that more money will be available, after he's gone...Benitez has fought tooth and nail to gain control over transfer activity, he's gotten it, and early indications are that he's not doing a great job with it. But everything is done too hastily in this sport these days. I say give him time and a longer leash - he'll either hang himself with it or get the job done.

As it stands, the only way forward in the short term is to avoid injuries to our best players and hope we can make one or two useful signings in January. In the mean time it's going to be no fun.
 
Lord Blackadder said:
I'm not going to defend Rafa's transfer history, but I'm worried that sacking him will do more harm than good.

As it stands, the only way forward in the short term is to avoid injuries to our best players and hope we can make one or two useful signings in January. In the mean time it's going to be no fun.
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It must be getting tedious defending for Rafa, I had actually decided to stop bringing it up so as to not start annoying and frustrating you. I think both sides of the argument have been made fairly clearly and all that's left now is to watch how things turn out..
 
Rafa's woes started the day I tipped them to win the league this season! But being one point behind 4th place is hardly a crisis.

Rangers on the other hand at least managed a draw last night in Romania, but looks like we won't progress any further in the Champions League but hopefully we'll get a wee run in the Europa League (presuming we qualify.)
 
Meanwhile, Stan Kroenke is edging ever closer to the 30% shareholding which would oblige him to launch a takeover bid for Arsenal. His latest purchase of 200 shares moves his current stake to 29.9%.

It'll be interesting to see what his next move will be...
 
Nieval said:
I think both sides of the argument have been made fairly clearly and all that's left now is to watch
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....With dread...

Nieval said:
how things turn out..
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It could be much, much worse. So I'll stop complaining for the time being. ;)

Jaffa Cake said:
Liverpool's back four certainly seem to think so.
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Ha! :D

Crew game in 6.5 hours...I'm just about to pull on my yellow shirt and begin making the pilgrimage.
 
Jaffa Cake said:
Meanwhile, Stan Kroenke is edging ever closer to the 30% shareholding which would oblige him to launch a takeover bid for Arsenal. His latest purchase of 200 shares moves his current stake to 29.9%.

It'll be interesting to see what his next move will be...
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You have to offer the highest value paid for a share in the past year, which was £10,500 earlier this year, compared to the more recent £8,500. So I predict that he'll wait until next year and save himself a bob or two.
 
Blue Velvet said:
You and me both, Mr. Cake.
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Three points today would e just great...and we're 1-0 up at half time after a vicious strike by Saha. Really need a result now after the three poor home matches all ending 1-1, not to mention the painful ordeal that is the Euro cup thingy... :eek:

Hull did their job, so at least one of us will get our wish... :p
 
Blue Velvet said:
Stoppage time winner. I can just imagine the scenes. :)
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We were rather pleased, although I think I broke something in my throat. :p

A much needed win, made all the more sweeter given the comedy obsession Stoke seem to have developed about us.

Oh, and as a bonus we're out of the bottom three. What with breakfast in the pub and a couple of pints of a most agreeable bitter it's not been a bad outing. :)
 
Jaffa Cake said:
Oh, and as a bonus we're out of the bottom three. What with breakfast in the pub and a couple of pints of a most agreeable bitter it's not been a bad outing. :)
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Well done Tigers! Too bad Altidore failed to convert his chances. But a come from behind victory against a strong defending club like Stoke is a good result.

Certainly a better week than for Columbus, eliminated in heartbreaking style by real Salt Lake and a disgrace of a ref named Baldomero "No Call" Toledo. I was absolutely gutted after the match. Best record over the course of the season, we lose two matches in the playoffs and it's all over. Not happy right now. We still have at least one match in the CCL, but I'm very disappointed and not liking the playoff system right now.

Watching Man U - Chelski and Drogba just got booked for getting kicked in the chest...unfair but perhaps a little karma for all those dives over the years.
 
This match is getting very testy....Owen and Obertan on...can they get the usual late, late goal?

EDIT: Nope. The only team I dislike more than Chelsea is United, but I would have liked to see a 1-1 draw.
 
Chelsea held on, too... we all got out wish for today... :)

A good weekend, for once...

Now if Birmingham just gets a point or three against Liverpool tomorrow it would be perfect... :p
 
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