This is getting really old by now. Get over it!
People are acting like they've never seen a ref make the wrong call.
People are acting like they've never seen a ref make the wrong call.
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2009-10 Football Thread
- Thread starter Jaffa Cake
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It's a pity he didn't show some class on Wednesday night and not handle it...
It's interesting too that Henry chooses to say the match should be replayed after FIFA expressly states it won't be.
Indeed, here are a couple of angered Irishmen outside the Embassy now.
This I disagree with. Mr M Hansson (Holmsjö) had officiated the game well apart from that decision – indeed, he'd seen through Anelka's dodgy dive to try and win a penalty earlier in the game. To say he's at fault for this because he was conned goes some way towards excusing the actions of the player, which is wrong.
When a player dives, or deliberately handles the ball, he's trying to con the referee pure and simple. Sometimes they get away with it, sometimes they don't – but there are instances such as this when a single incident has huge ramifications, and the blame has to be shouldered by the player. Here's a suggestion. Rather than replays and video technology, how about this for an idea – why don't these supposed professionals stop cheating all the time and then perhaps the referees will stop making so many 'mistakes'?
Indeed, it's going to be part of an exciting weekend of live football which will also see England replay Argentina (due to England losing thanks to the handball of stumpy cheat Diego Maradona), and a British representative side replay a match originally played against Germany on Christmas Day 1914 (which we controversially lost after Lord Blackadder's grandpa had a goal wrongly disallowed for offside).
This game won't be replayed.
Blame "shouldered by the player" is it? How do you mean that precisely Jaffa? Thierry Henry bragging loudly in the locker rooms he pulled a good one over Ireland and put France in the World Cup built upon a clear violation? What exactly are you referencing with the "shouldered" blame? That Thierry Henry wants a replay only now that FIFA buggered off and gave France a free ticket to World Cup they clearly did not earn?
All this means is that France is in the World Cup, and Ireland isn't, based upon a violation that you and FIFA seem to clearly accept (wink and nod time); while you give the officials a pass for their blindness. Lastly, if you have to go all the way back to Diego to cite a similar instance in comparison, perhaps we do need replays for clear handling violations.
Well, until video evidence is used, this is always going to happen, so get over it. If all what you expect would happen (disqualification/ban/etc) for 1 bad decision from a Ref, then football as we know it would end. Every single decision would be scutinised and you probably wouldn't know the actual outcome of a game until the week after
The season would last all year, just so any games with bad reffing could be replayed.Please explain why Thierry Henry should get a red card, for what would have been a yellow card offense, and also explain why the Ref should be suspended for not seeing it
I would have thought what I meant was quite clear - that the only individual who should be blamed for this incident is Thierry Henry, the player who handled the ball – not once, but twice – to give his team the advantage and ultimately a place in the World Cup.
Pointing fingers at the referee in this instance is wrong, had he had some sort of agenda to put France through then surely he would have awarded the French a penalty earlier in the game rather than hope for something like the handball later in the match?
Indeed, I mentioned the careful timing of Henry's statement in my post.
You seem to think that I approve of France progressing to the final in this fashion, I certainly do not. Indeed, in my previous post I clearly reference the fact that I'd be greatly impressed to see less of this kind of gamesmanship occur. Incidentally, Hull City had three players in that Ireland team, two on the pitch at that time – in fact, our right-back Paul McShane was the defender closest to Henry when he handled the ball – and I'm hugely, hugely disappointed that I won't have the opportunity to see them play in South Africa next year. I've mentioned previously that we've never had representatives at a previous Final, and I'd have been very proud for Stephen Hunt, Paul McShane and Kevin Kilbane to make it to next year's tournament. They now won't, and certainly Kilbane at least will not have another opportunity to go to a World Cup.
Cited due to the fact that's it very arguably the most famous hand ball incident in the history of the game, that's all. I could cite a dozen instances where video technology could have benefited the Tigers in the last season alone, but I don't want to look like I'm that embittered just yet.
Really, if you're thinking I approve of Henry and his antics never mind barking up the wrong tree, you're in an entirely different forest.
In my opinion he deliberately handled the ball. He has admitted as much, and called for a replay (with the full knowledge that there is no chance that will happen, to be fair).
I'm not sure how I feel about Henry here. Legendary player, and I don't think he really has any reputation as a serial cheater? Still I think he cheated, and while I give him credit for owning up to it the damage is done. Ultimately the ref failed to make the call but it was Henry who committed the foul. Yes, it probably looks a lot worse in slo-mo but even so he still could have NOT played the ball afterwards - or at least not celebrated after the dodgy goal!
The English media are absolutely destroying Henry over this - but that's mostly just because he's French. ;-)
That is EXACTLY the scene I was thinking of.
Bottom line, the Irish have been robbed, and it's Henry's fault more than anyone's. I understand that cheating is "part of the game" (Maybe it shouldn't be seen as "part of the game", eh?), but when it happens so flagrantly in a high-profile game I don't know how you can do otherwise than condemn it. Not the refs or even Michel Platini & Sepp Blatter, who I'd desperately like to blame for, well, everything.
But under the current rules and laws this is not something that demands a replay, unfortunately for the Irish.
I'll try to explain, despite your own (Fizzoid), Jaffa Cake's, and Lord Blackadder's contempt here. Apparently questioning intentional cheating in a World Cup qualifier makes me the one "ranting"... Nonetheless, I have seen deliberate diving dealt with by official with a red infraction to strongly discourage it, why shouldn't deliberate ball handling be any different? You're absolutely right, non-deliberate ball handling gets a yellow infraction but this France/Ireland game featured some very deliberate ball handling by Mr. Henry. Insofar as official suspension, with game in extra time and players very close to box, as Thierry Henry was, I find it hard to believe that neither field official or sideline official missed what many in the stands didn't! It is at these times, with crucial playoff games, that the sport relies on officials. If they can't do the job, boot them. FIFA should have done that as a matter of course. Lastly, what is the lesson here from France/Ireland game? As I see it, that you, Jaffa Cake, Lord Blackadder, FIFA, and the rest of the game are advancing? Intentional cheating is acceptable; it's part of the game. That's the message I sense; and I may be wrong, but it seems high time to do something about it.
Class? Is he really handling it any better or worse than anyone else would? He happily celebrated it at the time, there are no recriminations for confessing now, and the result can't be changed anyway. At this point he's doing damage control to avoid losing endorsements.
On the other hand, is there any precedent for a player doing what so many people think Henry should have done: go to the referee immediately and confess the handball and ask that the goal be disallowed? Has that ever happened in a critical game before? Would any of us have done any differently?
I don't think any of us are saying that at all, quite the opposite – and indeed, we've said so previously regarding several other incidents over the years in the various Football Threads that have run here on MacRumors. Well, I mean 'us' in this thread at least, I can't speak for FIFA – Blatter never ventures out of the iPhone forums and Platini tends to just stick to PRSI, so I don't know what they reckon to it.
Additionally, we're hardly fans of FIFA in these parts – in particular, we were collectively critical of FIFA's late decision to change the rules mid-competition regarding seeding the play-offs, which was a disadvantage to the Irish and was clear favouring of the 'bigger' nations.
Henry cheated, there's no doubt about it. His claims that it wasn't deliberate are undermined in my view by the fact that he handed not once, but twice. However, I maintain that banning a referee who had an otherwise good game (including seeing through various players flinging themselves to the ground at any opportunity) will achieve nothing. Indeed, if referees were banned every time they got a decision wrong I fear we'd soon run out of the black-clad buffoons.
Incidentally, I apologise if you think I'm showing you contempt because that's certainly not my intention at all – all I've done is point out that I feel the blame for this should be levelled purely at the player who committed the offence in question, rather than the match officials. If you think my previous few posts show contempt, please don't ask me for my views on Queens Park Rangers.
Exactly. As I mentioned, the timing of his statement regarding a potential replay came only after both FIFA and his own FA both stated it wouldn't be happening.
It's not quite what you're asking, but on a similar theme... Robbie Fowler once took an easy tumble in the penalty area (against Arsenal I think, but I may be wrong) and sheepishly confessed to the referee it shouldn't have been a penalty. The referee didn't change his mind however, and the spot kick was duly taken – if I recall, Fowler took it poorly, it was saved, but one of his team mates scored from the rebound.
Indeed, Jason MacAteer scored as Seaman couldn't hold it.
Anyway, I think Jaffa has covered most things. At the end of the day, no one is saying what's happened it right, only that expecting a replay and such reprisals is rather futile, unless ALL games are refereed 100% correctly, and that can't happen with just 4 blokes
It will be interesting to see when video replay technology gets a serious trial by FIFA.
Because it isn't a question of IF so much as WHEN in my opinion. There is a slowly growing movement to introduce video replay technology and some day the argument will reach critical mass or we will get FIFA bigwigs who are willing to implement it. I keep waffling over whether it's a good idea or not. My biggest concern is I do NOT want it to delay proceedings and hurt the flow of the game. If you want to see a game full of stoppages watch the NFL.
And, as others have pointed out - it's ultimately the fault of the players for incessantly cheating, NOT the officials for failing to catch them at it.
Because it isn't a question of IF so much as WHEN in my opinion. There is a slowly growing movement to introduce video replay technology and some day the argument will reach critical mass or we will get FIFA bigwigs who are willing to implement it. I keep waffling over whether it's a good idea or not. My biggest concern is I do NOT want it to delay proceedings and hurt the flow of the game. If you want to see a game full of stoppages watch the NFL.
And, as others have pointed out - it's ultimately the fault of the players for incessantly cheating, NOT the officials for failing to catch them at it.
I think you have a failure in reading comprehension here. Try going back and reading Jaffa's posts, like where he says "It's a pity he didn't show some class on Wednesday night and not handle it..." and "Rather than replays and video technology, how about this for an idea why don't these supposed professionals stop cheating all the time?"
What exactly do you see as contempt for your position. It seems to me that you are in violent agreement.
No footballer on Earth would admit to the referee that they had touched the ball after a goal has just been allowed. Robbie Keane would have done the exact same thing. What do you want him to do? Say, "Oh hi there referee. You're doing a great job and all, but honestly I touched the ball on that last goal. It would be mighty swell of you to disallow the goal and for the entire nation of France to want to kill me because it's unlikely we're going to get another goal in this match."
Anyways,
Liverpool vs. Man City this weekend. Predictions? Will City break the drawing streak, or will Liverpool finally get their act together?
Anyways,
Liverpool vs. Man City this weekend. Predictions? Will City break the drawing streak, or will Liverpool finally get their act together?
well the french better play an astonishing tournament...
and let's hope henry wil redeem himself ... just like maradona did 4 minutes after scoring the most ridiculous goal in world cup history: by scoring the most brilliant goal in world cup history
and let's hope henry wil redeem himself ... just like maradona did 4 minutes after scoring the most ridiculous goal in world cup history: by scoring the most brilliant goal in world cup history
Indeed, but would short stops for key incidents (such as 'did the ball cross the line?' and 'was it a penalty?') be that impactful? After all, if there's a contentious decision it often ends up with play delayed anyway while the players surround the ref to try and intimidate him into changing his mind. If video technology is adopted, it should only be at the referee's discretion when he feels he needs assistance making a call for, say, a penalty or if a goal should be disallowed for offside, not for things like free kicks and basic fouls.
I'm hoping they suffer a swift group stage exit myself.
Anyway, I'm just surprised no one has tried to blame all this on Phil Brown yet.
Hopefully not. I think it should be possible to have the video replay consultation take maybe 30 seconds or so - no longer than a substitution or foul + surround-the-ref-argument + free kick normally takes.
I'm hoping they suffer a swift group stage exit myself.
Anyway, I'm just surprised no one has tried to blame all this on Phil Brown yet.
I did cheer the French in 2006 against the Italians in the final, because the cheating Italians (specifically Daniele De Rossi) tried to kill Brian McBride in the group stage. But yeah, now I hope the French get dumped out of the first round. They aren't playing very well right now, so I don't think they need MY help to fail anyway. ;-)
Oh, and it's all Phil Brown's fault. This is all because of that half time talk on the pitch at Eastlands...
Just listened to the entirety of Liverpool vs Man City. 90 minutes of my life I'll never get back...
Without libelling anyone, FIFA will be pleased that Portugal and France have qualified. I can't see France doing well though, all they're good at is attacking, yet Domenech insists on playing 2 holding midfielders? He really hasn't got a clue.
Amazing performance from Slovenia, 2nd major tournament qualification I think for a country with a smaller population than London, also it's a shame that Bosnia Hertzagovina didn't qualify, I've heard/read that they are quite an exciting team.
I'm yet to decide my second team for WC2010 yet, it'll probably be New Zealand or Honduras, as I have pals from each.
Without libelling anyone, FIFA will be pleased that Portugal and France have qualified. I can't see France doing well though, all they're good at is attacking, yet Domenech insists on playing 2 holding midfielders? He really hasn't got a clue.
Amazing performance from Slovenia, 2nd major tournament qualification I think for a country with a smaller population than London, also it's a shame that Bosnia Hertzagovina didn't qualify, I've heard/read that they are quite an exciting team.
I'm yet to decide my second team for WC2010 yet, it'll probably be New Zealand or Honduras, as I have pals from each.
The Irishman closest to Henry when the handball happened was Paul McShane, who just happened to be one of the players on the Eastlands pitch last Boxing Day. You're not telling me that's coincidence and yet FIFA have said nothing about Brown. Disgraceful.Oh, and it's all Phil Brown's fault. This is all because of that half time talk on the pitch at Eastlands...
Anyway, quite the match for us earlier - a six goal thriller. Blimey.
Missed the Liverpool match, since I've sent most of this reasonably mild-weather day piecing my car back together <grumble>. At this point I'm just glad we didn't lose. Benayoun once again saves our bacon...I think much of our season is going to on the Israeli midfielder's performances.
And yet another instance this weekend of a mediocre side taking a top 4 scalp this weekend...what's gotten into the big boys this season?
Hull managed to score 3 but none coming from Altidore, despite being 72 minutes on the pitch....Come on Jozy, pull your finger out!
And yet another instance this weekend of a mediocre side taking a top 4 scalp this weekend...what's gotten into the big boys this season?
Hull managed to score 3 but none coming from Altidore, despite being 72 minutes on the pitch....Come on Jozy, pull your finger out!
He might not have got on the scoresheet, but I think he had a good performance today. He linked up pretty well with Fagan.
And as for Jimmy Bullard... what a waste of money he was.
Well if we're going down the route of replaying games for dodgy refereeing decisions, any chance we can replay the 1966 World Cup final? That 3rd goal looked a bit dodgy.
As long as Columbus can replay both legs of our playoff against Real Salt Lake...and I get issued new tickets for the home fixture.
Indeed, one wonders what could have been had he stayed healthy...but at any rate, he is healthy now so make hay while the sun shines as they say....
Jaffa Cake said:And as for Jimmy Bullard... what a waste of money he was.
Indeed, one wonders what could have been had he stayed healthy...but at any rate, he is healthy now so make hay while the sun shines as they say....
Well, that was embarrassing. It's not the first time a team has scored 9 in a premier league game - anyone remember the other time? (Good test of memory).
Man Utd against Ipswich?
I also remember Liverpool bagging 9 against Palace but I think that was the old first division.
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