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I don't hate Man City nor Liverpool, they were our biggest rivals but I don't hate them like many do, and my other half is a city fan.

Nobody can deny Man U's quality on the pitch, or perhaps more importantly Ferguson's quality as a top manager. But after having won more than half the league titles contested in the Premier League era, and a pile of domestic cups (plus a couple in Europe), Man U fans will just have to accept getting stick as the loud, obnoxious overdogs of the sport and they will continue to attract a lot of the fair-weather fans who only come out after big wins. That is the price of success.

Also, "Real" Man U fans (or fans of any big team) who complain about the foreign newbies need to remember which side their bread is buttered on - global shirt sales, friendly tournaments, TV money and other moneymaking schemes provide Fergie with a sizeable portion of his transfer war chest and helps fund the club in other ways. I'm not directing this at you, garybUK, but as a general statement, speaking from my perspective as a "johnny foreigner" who follows the Premier League.
 
if i had to take a guess the teams most popular abroad from the EPL are Manu, Liverpool and Arsenal

all three enjoy a rather big fan following internationally to spur merchandise sales

oscillatewildly said:
They and FC Bayern München are the two German clubs I remember from an early age; European Cup.

their last years sure are a bit of a draught ... but from a the fan following point they are sure developed absolute impressive: in the 70-80ties they played in front of sub 20k audiences, but since they moved to their new stadium a few years ago, they have been bringing in 47k averages which is considering the size of the town quite amazing
this season they have been plagued by the extremley bad first half of the season partly because of too many injuries.. with a new coach, less injured and some good signings (Stranzl as new central defender) and suddenly they concede 1/3 of the goals
 
the spending part is too true: just spending big numbers for a big name simply makes no sense if he doesn't fit the team

best 'value' transfer this season IMHO: Dortmund buying midfielder Kagawa from a 2. japanese league team for a whopping 350.000 euros. he fit the team perfectly and scored 8 league and 4 goals in europe in the first season half until he had an injury

sometimes i wonder wether a club like real is actual doing any scouting on their own or if they are just looking who "is popular at the moment": it sure looks like the german league is currently all the rage with real scouts: last year Khedira, and Özil and now defensive midfielder Sahin from champion Dortmund is again confirmed for 10 million through a release clause in his contract: dortmund didn't want to sell him

negative example Wolfsburg: they spent 35 millions in the winter transfer window after the catastrophic first half of the season and now with the last league game coming up they are fighting against regelation (personally i'm hoping for it, because i pretty much prefer having a traditional club like Mönchengladbach up and a VW sponsored "money is everything" club like Wolfsburg go down)

I wish the Premiership was something like the German league. So many things are exactly as they should be... fan ownership, safe standing, cheap tickets.. would be a completely different fan experience. Jealous :eek:

Want me to quote you?



(Taken from the earlier Football thread....)

I don't hate Man City nor Liverpool, they were our biggest rivals but I don't hate them like many do, and my other half is a city fan.

I do like the north/south divide though; it makes for good competition.

I hope you didn't trawl through all the MR football posts I've made since then, which year was it I said that?! Sincere apologies for the flagrant disregard of the good name of Manchester United football club.

Also, "Real" Man U fans (or fans of any big team) who complain about the foreign newbies need to remember which side their bread is buttered on - global shirt sales, friendly tournaments, TV money and other moneymaking schemes provide Fergie with a sizeable portion of his transfer war chest and helps fund the club in other ways. I'm not directing this at you, garybUK, but as a general statement, speaking from my perspective as a "johnny foreigner" who follows the Premier League.

I honestly don't have an issue with people following the Premier League from anywhere in the world, or in this country (although don't expect me to thank anyone for all the huge financial flows in football now - arguably Sky and the international appetite for the Premiership has ruined football in this country) - I am always happy to talk about football with any other people who get similarly enthused by it to me. My comments about United are specific to a particular stigma attached to some 'fans' in Britain, which I am sure some other regulars in this thread will understand. Every playground and every office in the country has it's own loudmouthed, Surrey born and bred, die-hard United 'fan', happy to taunt and ridicule anyone else during United's admittedly impressive endless periods of success.

Whilst I should just ignore it, and usually do, nothing annoys me more than these people celebrating their team's success so loudly, telling anyone who'll listen about how happy they are, when they don't understand the real meaning of it - the next day, they probably couldn't care less. It doesn't count, if you don't follow the wins and the losses, the good and the bad, and reflect on them all! You're not allowed to taunt me and mock me about how many years it's been since we won anything, when you don't understand the meaning of properly following a football club!

Hopefully someone understood vaguely what I meant through those nonsensical rantings. Obviously I placed garybUK unfairly in the category of those fans and apologise... just the notion of coming onto an internet messageboard during one of the defining games of your club's season to gloat flew a little close to typical United 'fan' behaviour for me to resist a comment.
 
I wish the Premiership was something like the German league. So many things are exactly as they should be... fan ownership, safe standing, cheap tickets.. would be a completely different fan experience. Jealous :eek:

i'm equally jealous since i only get to watch it the summaries, gameday analysis and discussions etc. on german free TV
for live league coverage i only get to see the austrian league every sunday.. which, by all means, is an alternative to valium on it's _better_ days

i still remember the 90ties as a teenager when i followed the italian (easy to guess which team i supported during that time in italy) and spanish leagues .. as i grew older i appriciated the german league more and more: it's simply more interesting as a fan and over the last few years youth-based all-out-attacking football has become a major trend with coaches: Klopp, Tuchel, Dutt, Rangnick all favour such offensive approaches .. and i like it
 
When considering Manchester United, it should be remembered that in their favour they fulfil a very important role as our feeder team. ;)

Word is a fourth young United player will be permanently joining us shortly, left back Joe Dudgeon. Fee of circa £300,000 I believe.

As for Arsenal, Wenger doesn't necessarily need to spend big – smart purchases in key positions would probably serve him well. We all know the positions that need strengthening, it's been debated to death – but Wenger can be stubborn where recruitment is concerned.

For me – and I don't watch Arsenal as much as others here, I'll freely admit – one of the big problems that Wenger really needs to address is the mentality of his players. It seems that too many of his charges have developed a losing mentality, despite his recent claims that his side were mentally stronger than ever. They can be motivated to pick up wins against the likes of Manchester United, Chelsea and Barcelona, but for some reason choke against the 'smaller' teams. Turn a loss or two against the likes of Stoke into wins and suddenly they're right up there – but for whatever reason they just don't seem as up for these games, and for another season it's cost them.

Look at those big wins and it's plain to see. A victory over Barcelona was followed up with an unlikely draw against Leyton Orient and – shortly after – defeat to Birmingham in the League Cup Final. Chelsea were vanquished but Arsenal couldn't get the win against Wigan days later. And Manchester United may have been humbled but that was followed up with yesterday's loss to Stoke. I don't know if it's fear of failure, complacency, a lack of motivation or what – something is clearly very wrong.

So, while Wenger does need to make changes so far as his playing staff are concerned, I'd argue that there are deeper problems to be addressed with his team.
 
What keeps me coming back to this group / thread is the generally high level of discussion and paucity of gloating and mudslinging, odd piles of "Manure" dropped by a certain elephantine figure aside. I do wish there were representatives from some other clubs present (can't recall seeing a pro-Chelsea fan in here, ever), but oh well. Being a non-Englishman I'm more interested in talking football than inflaming rivalries - if I want to do that, I just talk baseball with Dodger fans. :D

City, Liverpool, and Leeds (remember them?) are United's rivals. Chelsea and Arsenal are United's competition. Even during the heated Keane vs Vieira years, that was the case IMO.

Speaking of Vieira, I still maintain Arsenal never properly replaced him in terms of the leadership, fire and toughness on the pitch he brought to the squad. One could say United never really replaced Keano, either, but now they have so much leadership and self-belief at virtually every position. Arsenal can't get to that point overnight, and I'm not sure who on their current squad looks like a natural leader, if anyone. Talent-wise they don't need to make a lot of additions to the squad - a solid center half would do wonders - but a lot will depend on whether Cesc leaves this summer.

Wow, hard to believe Kagawa only cost €350,000. That's an amazing price for such a quality player. I'm going to have to be biased and vote for Chicharito - 20 goals so far in all competitions and he makes it look pretty easy, though he still has loads of room for improvement. He could be a really scary player in a few years.
 
Liverpool 5-2 Fulham, and a great attacking display from the Reds, who absolutely ambushed Fulham for the first half hour of the match with slick passing and possession football. We faded a little towards the half and were somewhat flat after the break, but slowly built momentum and dominated again towards the end.

Luis Suarez absolutely tore Fulham's defense apart and his goal was reminiscent of Torres in better days, and Maxi Rodriquez continues his hot streak of form. The fluidity of the passing moves were at times world-class.

Dalglish has turned Liverpool into a dangerous attacking team again, and he has also improved the defense - but I think we still need more quality and depth in defense to mount a credible league challenge. Still, to see a performance like this is more than any Liverpool fan could have hoped for a few months back.

silencio said:
can't recall seeing a pro-Chelsea fan in here, ever

Blue Velvet supports Chelsea, though she doesn't post here often.

silencio said:
City, Liverpool, and Leeds (remember them?) are United's rivals. Chelsea and Arsenal are United's competition. Even during the heated Keane vs Vieira years, that was the case IMO.

Manchester United and Liverpool have rarely been direct title rivals since the 60s; Manchester United spent Liverpool's dominating years flirting with midtable finishes or relegation. I think the competition between the clubs is alive and well, since you forget that Liverpool was within a whisker of winning the title recently. But it is true that in the Premier League era, Arsenal and Chelsea have been the only teams winning titles with any regularity. When Fergie leaves the cycle may repeat itself, with Liverpool regularly pushing for titles and a Fergie-less United snapping at the heels of the top four.

Jaffa Cake said:
So, while Wenger does need to make changes so far as his playing staff are concerned, I'd argue that there are deeper problems to be addressed with his team.

Agreed, and I think a lot of people have fairly laid this flaw at Wenger's own door. He is responsible for the mentality of his players; if the players are in a defeatist mood, or disinterested, it's his job to change that. Dalglish was faced with just such a task at Liverpool; the team were off-form but also losing their fighting spirit. Half the battle is getting the team to play with genuine belief, not just adding or removing players. Arsenal essentially have the physical tools to do the job, but something is missing in terms of attitude.
 
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Good times indeed Lord Blackadder. Hard work and cutting play - really exploited a badly set up and performing Fulham. Dalglish has some sort of knack; first Meireles, now Maxi.

The very early goal shocked Fulham as much as Chelsea yesterday, but setting out with Zamora on the bench - if he is unfit, he looked fitter than the others when he came on at the start of the second half - playing an unfit Hangeland - who because of his fitness couldn't make up his mind whether to play offside or drop back three yards - wasting Dempsey out wide, and being outnumbered in midfield.:confused:

Thanks go to Glen Johnson for choosing to have a decent game, including clearing a certain person's shot off the line.:rolleyes::(

Of course the result may be explained by Carragher 666.

Cheers,
OW
 
Thanks go to Glen Johnson for choosing to have a decent game, including clearing a certain person's shot off the line.:rolleyes::(

Johnson usually contributes offensively; whether he has a good game or not always depends on if he remembers to defend. England fans know this well. ;) I really wanted Dempsey to score though; not only is he having his best season in Europe, but he's on my fantasy squad...

Of course the result may be explained by Carragher 666.

More appearances than Ferdinand and Gary Neville combined! :D
 
i'm equally jealous since i only get to watch it the summaries, gameday analysis and discussions etc. on german free TV
for live league coverage i only get to see the austrian league every sunday.. which, by all means, is an alternative to valium on it's _better_ days

i still remember the 90ties as a teenager when i followed the italian (easy to guess which team i supported during that time in italy) and spanish leagues .. as i grew older i appriciated the german league more and more: it's simply more interesting as a fan and over the last few years youth-based all-out-attacking football has become a major trend with coaches: Klopp, Tuchel, Dutt, Rangnick all favour such offensive approaches .. and i like it

Haha, I can imagine the Austrian league isn't overflowing with fantastic football...

I want to get to a game in Germany sometime soon, see what it's like in person. It's such a shame realistically there's no way English football can ever follow that model now, the path we have gone down. Fans have such a heavier say in what goes on, and if that means a lack of competitiveness in terms of spending power compared to, say, England, then in my opinion it's a worthwhile compromise.

As for Arsenal, Wenger doesn't necessarily need to spend big – smart purchases in key positions would probably serve him well. We all know the positions that need strengthening, it's been debated to death – but Wenger can be stubborn where recruitment is concerned.

For me – and I don't watch Arsenal as much as others here, I'll freely admit – one of the big problems that Wenger really needs to address is the mentality of his players. It seems that too many of his charges have developed a losing mentality, despite his recent claims that his side were mentally stronger than ever. They can be motivated to pick up wins against the likes of Manchester United, Chelsea and Barcelona, but for some reason choke against the 'smaller' teams. Turn a loss or two against the likes of Stoke into wins and suddenly they're right up there – but for whatever reason they just don't seem as up for these games, and for another season it's cost them.

Look at those big wins and it's plain to see. A victory over Barcelona was followed up with an unlikely draw against Leyton Orient and – shortly after – defeat to Birmingham in the League Cup Final. Chelsea were vanquished but Arsenal couldn't get the win against Wigan days later. And Manchester United may have been humbled but that was followed up with yesterday's loss to Stoke. I don't know if it's fear of failure, complacency, a lack of motivation or what – something is clearly very wrong.

So, while Wenger does need to make changes so far as his playing staff are concerned, I'd argue that there are deeper problems to be addressed with his team.

I would change pretty much nothing of this analysis, I think you sum it up very well. The reason there is a stirring about "Wenger out" amongst Arsenal supporters for the first time really is due to this underlying issue you mention... why are we throwing away a 4 goal lead at half time to Newcastle?... a 2 goal lead to Spurs, of all people, twice in a season? And as you outline, why can we beat Barcelona, and play incredibly incredibly well, and then the same players be so disappointing against West Brom, Newcastle, Sunderland, Blackburn etc. at home?

..generally high level of discussion and paucity of gloating and mudslinging, odd piles of "Manure" dropped by a certain elephantine figure aside..

Booya.

Speaking of Vieira, I still maintain Arsenal never properly replaced him in terms of the leadership, fire and toughness on the pitch he brought to the squad. One could say United never really replaced Keano, either, but now they have so much leadership and self-belief at virtually every position. Arsenal can't get to that point overnight, and I'm not sure who on their current squad looks like a natural leader, if anyone. Talent-wise they don't need to make a lot of additions to the squad - a solid center half would do wonders - but a lot will depend on whether Cesc leaves this summer.

Hopefully Cesc stays, anyone who wants him to leave must be quite blind... he is clearly the best player in our team. As for leadership, yes, we need it, but it is too simple to look back at Viera. He was surrounded by winners and leaders, and didn't have to do too much. Behind him he had Adams and Seaman first, then Campbell, Lehmann.. alongside him Gilberto, and in front of him Bergkamp and Henry. I don't think it's as simple as adding a "leader"... but I don't know what else it is we need either. Adding a new centre half is tempting, but Arsene will say - Vermaelen. And to be fair, he is our best centre half, and he's made 1 appearance all season.

Arsenal have the best defensive record in the league in terms of conceding from open play - a statistic you won't see banded around much in the mainstream press! However, we have an appalling record from set pieces... 56% of goals conceded or something last time I was quoted it. Maybe some kind of new defensive coach or organisation is needed - because in open play, these defenders are clearly quite good, as anyone who watched Koscielny and Djourou defend against Messi and co. will agree. Perhaps that's why we played better against Barcelona - no threat from the set plays!

Liverpool 5-2 Fulham, and a great attacking display from the Reds, who absolutely ambushed Fulham for the first half hour of the match with slick passing and possession football. We faded a little towards the half and were somewhat flat after the break, but slowly built momentum and dominated again towards the end.

Luis Suarez absolutely tore Fulham's defense apart and his goal was reminiscent of Torres in better days, and Maxi Rodriquez continues his hot streak of form. The fluidity of the passing moves were at times world-class.

Dalglish has turned Liverpool into a dangerous attacking team again, and he has also improved the defense - but I think we still need more quality and depth in defense to mount a credible league challenge. Still, to see a performance like this is more than any Liverpool fan could have hoped for a few months back.

Liverpool were very good.

Blue Velvet supports Chelsea, though she doesn't post here often.

I was going to suggest BV too.
 
Abramovich is considering Guus Hiddink and Andre Villas Boas of Porto as he searches for yet another manager to replace Ancelotti. I really think Abramovich is a spoiled, ruthless little czar.

I want to get to a game in Germany sometime soon, see what it's like in person. It's such a shame realistically there's no way English football can ever follow that model now, the path we have gone down. Fans have such a heavier say in what goes on, and if that means a lack of competitiveness in terms of spending power compared to, say, England, then in my opinion it's a worthwhile compromise.

Very true. As I watch the MLS grow here in the US, I hope that US Soccer and the league organization learn the lessons that both leagues can teach - chasing after big money can lead you to the top in some ways, but it comes at a big cost - both literally and figuratively.

Sport should be competition for the purpose of entertainment of the supporters first and foremost, and on that criteria one might say that the Bundesliga is the best football league in the world.
 
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What keeps me coming back to this group / thread is the generally high level of discussion and paucity of gloating and mudslinging, odd piles of "Manure" dropped by a certain elephantine figure aside. I do wish there were representatives from some other clubs present (can't recall seeing a pro-Chelsea fan in here, ever), but oh well. Being a non-Englishman I'm more interested in talking football than inflaming rivalries - if I want to do that, I just talk baseball with Dodger fans. :D

If anybody knows one, I'm also looking for a Celtic fan to provide a counterpoint for my slightly skewed view of Scottish football (wee diddy teams also welcome)! Not interested in all that sectarian malarky though.

Dundee Utd tonight, who need points to secure a European place. Thankfully the game is at Ibrox.
 
Oh? B52 wants a move to Barca at the end of the season.

...i don't see it but i admire his ambition.

On another note i hope Tottenham do us a favour tonight by beating City.
 
Oh? B52 wants a move to Barca at the end of the season.

...i don't see it but i admire his ambition.

if you look at the sheer numbers even that rumored FC Bayern connection from the article seems completley disregarding reality:
who would he replace there ?
Gomez ? who scored more than twice as many goals as Bendter the last 5 years in the same amount of appearances ?
Klose ? the german national team hero who despite great shape is sitting on the bench ?
Olic ? fan favorite and tireless worker ?

unless they can get Bendtner cheap as a backup or if Klose and Olic leave the club at the same time it just doesn't make sense.. also since they can very likely get a non-premier-league player with the same quality for 1/3 the price
 
Okay, I'm confused; it's not like that 2/288 thread? Actually, probably best not to use / :) Please can you show your workings, I'm missing something.

Nevermind, I actually bothered to look up the numbers more carefully. Carra's on top by a good margin but not as much as I first thought. :eek::p

Oh? B52 wants a move to Barca at the end of the season.

...i don't see it but i admire his ambition.

On another note i hope Tottenham do us a favour tonight by beating City.

It's somewhat ironic that Arsenal, a team with self-confidence issues, have the most self-confident player in the world in their squad. Too bad he's also one of their most limited players.

I would like to see Liverpool finish as high as possible, so I have no problems with a Man City loss. A top four finish is still mathematically possible For Liverpool, though Man City only need a single win to lock in 4th.
 
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Well Spurs aren't doing well, City are 1-0 up against the run of play. Crouch OG. Can't believe i have to face the prospect of City leapfrogging us to 3rd. *sigh*...where did it all go wrong.
 
A top four finish is still mathematically possible For Liverpool, though Man City only need a single win to lock in 4th.

Damn and blast, why did I open my big mouth? :eek:

Oh well, I could have done worse, like Phil Brown's threat to shoot down low flying aircraft. :D

It looks like there may be seven English teams in Europe next season: aside from the top four in the CL, we have 5th place (Liverpool or Spurs) going to the Europa League, Stoke going by virtue of appearing in the FA Cup final against CL-bound Man City, and possibly Fulham via their fair play record.
 
"Maybe I will be flying the Preston plane when it comes to the end of the season."

Preston have their own plane? :eek:

It's not the first time something like this has happened. At the end of the 2003-04 season we were promoted from what was then the old Division Three, as runners-up to Doncaster Rovers. The last match of the season was at home to Bristol Rovers, and a group of Doncaster fans hired a plane to trail a mocking banner over the KC as the match was played.

We just ignored it. The buffoons. :p
 
We just ignored it. The buffoons. :p

You almost never see such pranks in the US...hard to say why exactly, now that I think about it.

I'm still banking on you lot having to play Stoke twice affecting how things pan out. We have Villa at home next and we'll definitely win that...maybe.

At this point I wouldn't bank on any results involving Arsenal...they are so bipolar at the moment that they are capable of winning or losing any match, regardless of the opponent's level of skill.
 
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