2010-2011 Football Thread

[swiftaw]

Obviously the whole 'weakened team' rule is currently silly and unenforceable.

I see only 2 potential ways to fix it (and the first one is never going to happen):

1. Each choose a number of players (say 14) to be labelled as 'first choice'. Each starting 11 much feature a minimum number (say 7 or 8) of first choice players. This of course will never happen because players who don't get labelled as first choice will not be happy.

2. More that half (6 or more) of your starting 11 must have featured (either started or came on a sub) in your last match. I feel that this has potential, since it seems the outcry occurs when a team makes wholesale changes from one match to the next.

Anyway, I think 2 is feasible (or at least more feasible that what happens now)

However, my biggest moan is this: Why doesn't UEFA let the winner of the Europa League gain qualification the the Champions League the next season? It would immediately make the Europa a competition that clubs actually wanted to win, not avoid like the plague.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Obviously the whole 'weakened team' rule is currently silly and unenforceable.

I've also tried to come up with some way of deciding whan a team is "weakend", but I've given up. You either allow a team to choose from its squad as it pleases, or else you dive into a murky world of lists, formulas and designations that are still unfair but much more complicated and arguably no more enforceable.

The rule just needs to be dropped.

However, my biggest moan is this: Why doesn't UEFA let the winner of the Europa League gain qualification the the Champions League the next season? It would immediately make the Europa a competition that clubs actually wanted to win, not avoid like the plague.

It is absolute ****ing idiocy. They can't find a single CL spot anywhere to give to the Europa League winner? It's a disgrace, and it truly does make the Europa League irrelevant. There is simply no excuse for failing to give the Europa League winners a spot in the CL - and maybe the runner-up too. Teams play more exciting football when they are actually trying to win something of value, and if the Europa League is a route to the Champions League people will take it much, much more seriously.

The CL and Europa League are huge money spinning events for UEFA, but they've gotten greedy and now there are way too many teams involved. Does anyone even care about the numerous qualifying rounds of either competition, except when a player gets hurt and misses league matches as a result?

We've been over it many times, but it's just another reminder about how greedy, corrupt and self-centered FIFA, UEFA and all the other regional cabals are. Hight ticket prices, arbitrary decisions based on bribes, endless buffets for fat suits and a total failure to address necessary issues properly (racism, sectarian violence, corruption, goalline technology) while also making pointless rules (snoods!! ****ing snoods!!) that don't accomplish a damned thing.

There, that feels better.

 

[takao]

it's interesting that it's mostly a english thing to consider the UEFA league a 'nuisance' and then 'go league first'
for an aweful lot of teams, just being able to compete europe wide is a huge kind of deal, especially money wise

the EPL teams are especially privileged with it's enourmus TV money budget (and also ticket prices), in other leagues there is simply no money

Sky TV pays 18 million for the austrian top 2 leagues per year... and that is after additional negotiations .. the years before it was around 11 millions ... for 10 1st league teams and 10 2nd league teams (and not all teams get the same share )

reaching the CL group phase once can more or less mean that a club can domiante the league for the next 2-3 years just because of the additional money

 

[Jaffa Cake]

The thing is, there already is a kind of rule in place so far as 'weakened teams' are concerned. All Premier League teams have to submit a maximum 25 man squad to the FA at start of the season, these are the only players they can field besides under-21s. So long as the clubs abide by this squad rule let them field whichever side they chose, in my opinion. Punishing the likes of Wolves and Blackpool but letting off Manchester United and Arsenal smacks of favouritism – but should we really be surprised at this?

it's interesting that it's mostly a english thing to consider the UEFA league a 'nuisance' and then 'go league first'
for an aweful lot of teams, just being able to compete europe wide is a huge kind of deal, especially money wise

To be fair, UEFA don't help matters by the way they've bloated the Champions League, and how they promote it way and above the Europa League. But if you were to ask a lot of English clubs if they'd be happy with a Europa League place, I suspect the answer would be in the affirmative. The top six or so clubs though only have aspirations for the Champions League, anything else seems an inconvenience.

Sky TV pays 18 million for the austrian top 2 leagues per year...

I think that's around the amount Manchester United got in prize money just for winning the Premier League – that's before their TV money too.

 

[swiftaw]

The thing is, there already is a kind of rule in place so far as 'weakened teams' are concerned. All Premier League teams have to submit a maximum 25 man squad to the FA at start of the season, these are the only players they can field besides under-21s. So long as the clubs abide by this squad rule let them field whichever side they chose, in my opinion. Punishing the likes of Wolves and Blackpool but letting off Manchester United and Arsenal smacks of favouritism – but should we really be surprised at this?

While I agree that the 25 man squad should be enough to solve the problem, it doesn't because of the under 21 exemption. A club could choose to field 11 16 year olds, none of who have to be part of the 25. Clearly this would be fielding a weakened team.

So, if we assume that any member of the named 25 is premier league quality, the only rule you would have to have is one which stops a team fielding too many under 21's, so something like at least 8 of the starting 11 have to be from the named 25.

 

[aloofman]

It is absolute ****ing idiocy. They can't find a single CL spot anywhere to give to the Europa League winner? It's a disgrace, and it truly does make the Europa League irrelevant. There is simply no excuse for failing to give the Europa League winners a spot in the CL - and maybe the runner-up too. Teams play more exciting football when they are actually trying to win something of value, and if the Europa League is a route to the Champions League people will take it much, much more seriously.

Completely agree. Even just a spot in the qualifying rounds would be a great prize to those teams. As of now it's like winning the NIT. Congratulations, you're the 50th-best team in Europe!

 

[Lord Blackadder]

it's interesting that it's mostly a english thing to consider the UEFA league a 'nuisance' and then 'go league first'
for an aweful lot of teams, just being able to compete europe wide is a huge kind of deal, especially money wise

I think the "nuisance" argument comes from the fact that it's a lot of matches to play for little reward. But you are right that for many teams (including in England) it is a big deal. Still, it would be so much better if there was a Champions League place at the end of it. UEFA has made it clear that the Champions League is the big show, and the Europa League is a distant second. They could promote it more, offer a bigger prize at the end, and make it much more exciting.

Punishing the likes of Wolves and Blackpool but letting off Manchester United and Arsenal smacks of favouritism – but should we really be surprised at this?

It does seem that way. As you said, there is already a 25-man squad rule, and it seems wholly incompatible with the "weakened team" rule. The fact that you can pick 11 players from your officially approved 25-man squad and still get fined for it is pure nonsense.

 

[Jaffa Cake]

Meanwhile, a treat for garybUK and oscillatewildly – the red and black shirt Manchester's finest will be donning next season...

​

Manchester City's away shirt for 2011/12, unveiled this evening during their FA Cup celebration.

As we all know, striped shirts are the most ace shirts you can get, and I rather like this effort – although I think it would look better with the stripes running down the arms rather than hooping them. That said, it's a good effort I reckon and pleasingly the back isn't plain.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

The sponsor decal is pretty low-key, that helps a lot. Nice shirt.

 

[Silencio]

That City away shirt looks pretty good. The hoops instead of the stripes on the arms will take a bit of getting used to, but it looks good and is a pretty unique feature.

Speaking of hoops, I still don't think I'm too pleased with that look on the alleged 11-12 United Away shirt. An all black third shirt with a red collar (somewhat the inverse of the home shirt) leaked somewhere last week, and that looks much, much better IMO. But really, anything is better than this season's dismal white away shirt, which the club will unfortunately be forced to wear at Wembley this Saturday...

 

[Fuzzy14]

I do like that Man City shirt!

Here's the new Rangers away:

Just kidding!

LB, Liverpool were nearly looking for a new manager today. Kenny was hosting a charity golf event at Loch Lomond today, despite the weather (100+mph winds in some parts of Scotland today). A tree blew over on the course missed him by a couple of yards (this came from a family friend playing the game behind him).

Re: Giggs, even my less than internet savvy dad knew!

 

[Lord Blackadder]

LB, Liverpool were nearly looking for a new manager today. Kenny was hosting a charity golf event at Loch Lomond today, despite the weather (100+mph winds in some parts of Scotland today). A tree blew over on the course missed him by a couple of yards (this came from a family friend playing the game behind him).

Scotland won't let him come to harm, he has a job to do!

But crikey, a narrow escape!

 

[Jaffa Cake]

That City away shirt looks pretty good. The hoops instead of the stripes on the arms will take a bit of getting used to, but it looks good and is a pretty unique feature.

Well, there's a reason apparently – from Umbro's website...

The shirt is designed so that when a player celebrates a goal or links arms with team mates, the black and red stripe remains consistent. For this reason, there is no seam on the underarm as traditionally stitching can distort the shape and flow of a stripe.

If you say so, Umbro chaps.

Fuzzy – no truth to the rumour that Fergie was seen at the course earlier today clutching a hacksaw?

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Fuzzy – no truth to the rumour that Fergie was seen at the course earlier today clutching a hacksaw?

When you've got Old Nick on you're side, there's no need to resort to such primitive things as saws. Do you think that volcanic ash cloud disturbing Barca's travel arrangements is an accident?

 

[Fuzzy14]

When you've got Old Nick on you're side, there's no need to resort to such primitive things as saws. Do you think that volcanic ash cloud disturbing Barca's travel arrangements is an accident?

I believe the volcano was arranged by Sarah Palin to detain Obama in the UK for a couple of days, but it's going to make her look a bit silly as it now means he can go to the CL final. In US Sports it's traditional for the guests to throw first pitch or similar, maybe Obama can put in the first dive?

 

[Peterkro]

I like Giggs but he hasn't half been a ****:

 

[Fizzoid]

Isn't that what his wife said

 

[daneoni]

Fergie plots to red card a reporter for even mentioning Giggs during his press conference. Overreact much.?

 

[oscillatewildly]

No, Rob Harris was trying it on, he can FO.

Edit:

In the end, Manchester United played a nearly full stength team, thought not quite full-strength. I was being sarcastic.

A lot of media had been going on about it and I was fed up given the games accumulated by the starting players.

Michael Owen; the family's Spurs rep would be happy to see him turn out for them. I'd like to see that, if he isn't staying at Manchester United.

fizzoid and Lord Blackadder; Adam - I'm sure Scholes was more mobile in his heyday. Has Adam peaked or can he improve that extra bit to play at the top level? I'm not convinced he can improve and maintain it.

Congratulations to the Academy team re the FA Youth Cup; hopefully 4 or 5 will make it.

Curses, FC Barcelona are flying tonight; no victory by default.

Cheers,
OW

 

[daneoni]

No, Rob Harris is trying it on, he can FO.

True that may be but the actual question seemed legit/harmless to me and all Fergie had to say is "Giggs is an important player...as is every member of the team. Each has their role..." etc.

Harris didn't go beyond the line after that despite being oblivious to what was going on. Reports are that he doesn't even know he's been banned.

 

[oscillatewildly]

If it was his first Ferguson press conference, fair enough, but a seasoned hack? Why ask about Giggs? Apparently Harris can't be banned - likely to be ignored. It's not the first time a manager, let alone Ferguson, has taken the heavy protection route.

Cheers,
OW

 

[Silencio]

Michael Owen; the family's Spurs rep would be happy to see him turn out for them. I'd like to see that, if he isn't staying at Manchester United.

Would be nice if he could stay, but the roster of forwards is going to be crowded with at least Danny Welbeck coming back, if not Macheda and Mame Diouf as well. I would not begrudge him going elsewhere in search of more playing time, which he would surely get at Spurs.

fizzoid and Lord Blackadder; Adam - I'm sure Scholes was more mobile in his heyday. Has Adam peaked or can he improve that extra bit to play at the top level? I'm not convinced he can improve and maintain it.

Will be interesting to see how Adam performs in a team that isn't built around him like Blackpool's was. He would be on the cusp between a starter and a squad player at most of the top clubs, definitely a solid contributor but won't lead you to the promised land.

Congratulations to the Academy team re the FA Youth Cup; hopefully 4 or 5 will make it.

Don't want to get ahead of myself by making Class of '92 comparisons, but there's some serious young talent in that team. The prospect that sticks out to me the most is Paul Pogba: physically he is a beast for that age level, but he's also got excellent ball skills and his technique and power on long range shots is incredible. Ravel Morrison is such a high beta prospect, looks like George Best on the ball and is a spectacular finisher, but emotional maturity is obviously a big problem. If he blows it, it will be one of the bigger wastes of talent of all time. Ryan Tunnicliffe made huge strides this year. The other kids I rate are Will Keane (goalscoring record speaks for itself) and Gyliano Van Velzen (smooth as silk on the ball).

Curses, FC Barcelona are flying tonight; no victory by default.

Hopefully having to come to London a bit earlier than expected will throw off their preparations, guess we'll see. The last time a volcano threw off their travel plans, they had to get to Milan to face Inter and lost 3-1. Gotta take those good signs wherever one can, right?

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Brad Friedel's contract is up at Villa (though they may try to keep him) and Liverpool and Spurs are interested, as well as West Brom. He's been an outstanding keeper for the USA, Columbus and several Premier League teams, and had he been English I think he would have been a stalwart international for them. At 40 he's no spring chicken, but if you've watched any Villa game recently you'll see he's still fit and sharp.

He's almost my neighbor (as he grew up just accross town from me in Bay Village, he was from the western suburbs of Cleveland, I am from the east), and I think he'd make a great backup keeper if he returned to Liverpool. But I'd rather see him start, and if I were a Spurs fan I'd take him over Gomez any day of the week.

Here's hoping he has a few more good years at the top flight, and then comes back to MLS for a few seasons. At the rate he's going he looks fit to play till he's 50.

I believe the volcano was arranged by Sarah Palin to detain Obama in the UK for a couple of days, but it's going to make her look a bit silly as it now means he can go to the CL final. In US Sports it's traditional for the guests to throw first pitch or similar, maybe Obama can put in the first dive?

...Or the first two-footed tackle. Maybe we should have Scholes and Busquets go out to the center circle before the match so Scholesy can scythe Busquets with a trademark tackle, and the latter can flop theatrically. Both will get a preemptory red card, and the match will start 10 v 10.

If it was his first Ferguson press conference, fair enough, but a seasoned hack? Why ask about Giggs? Apparently Harris can't be banned - likely to be ignored. It's not the first time a manager, let alone Ferguson, has taken the heavy protection route.

It's inevitable that "Giggsy" is going to come up in the conversation, and it was a clumsy, leading question by the press hack, but that's certainly nothing really out of the ordinary these days. Fergie is a little Stalin when it comes to press conferences, a bellicose old coot. He's protecting his players, all the best managers do it, it's just that Fergie's way of doing it is particularly aggressive and arbitrary. He gets away with it because he's a successful manager. Ultimately it's a non-story. No manager is going to sit there and discuss a tabloid story with the press. The accidental on-mike banning is humorous though.

Will be interesting to see how Adam performs in a team that isn't built around him like Blackpool's was. He would be on the cusp between a starter and a squad player at most of the top clubs, definitely a solid contributor but won't lead you to the promised land.

Neither will Park Ji Sung, but no Man U fan would argue against his value to the club. Given the Man U's current needs in the midfield, I think Adam would improve the squad. He'd be a better buy than Bébé at any rate. As Jaffa said earlier, it seems likely he will leave Blackpool and probably end up at a Premier League team, but I'm guessing not a top four side.

 

[swiftaw]

Slightly off topic, but I know that there are several of you who play Football Manager, so I just thought I'd share the fact that I just completed the 2017/18 season as manager of Manchester City and I won the premier league by winning all 38 games, scoring 125 goals and conceding only 14. Interestingly, all my main starting 11 are real players still, so I thought I'd list them for reference to see if they do anything big in the real world over the next season or so (some you already know):

GK Luis Guilherme (Real Life Club: Botafogo, Real Life Age: 18)
RB Nicolas Otamendi (Real Life Club: Porto, Real Life Age: 23)
CB Ryan Shawcross (Stoke, 23)
CB Simon Kjaer (Wolfsburg, 22)
CB Dedryck Boyata (Man City, 20)
LB Alex Santos (Santos, 20)
RM Georginio Wijnaldum (Feyenoord, 20)
CM Jack Rodwell (Everton, 20)
LM Eden Hazard (Lille, 20)
CF Neymar (Santos, 19)
CF Khouma Babacar (Fiorentina, 18)

Also, other players to keep an eye on in real life:
Jan Chramosta (Mlada Boleslav)
Renan (Avai)
Dudu (Cruzeiro)
Tom Cairney (Hull City)
Jucilei (Corinthians)
Davide Santon (Inter)
Marko Marin (Werder Bremen)

 

[XIII]

FM turns everyone into the world's best football scout

Barcelona are using Arsenal's training ground for their pre-CL final preparations. I'm pleased we can put any acrimony aside and offer our facilities... a touch of class

Nasri stalling on a new deal apparently, he's either going to sign a deal worth more than it probably should be, or be leaving... either way hardly endears himself to the fans.

Benzema linked... and Falcao. In our dreams.. good dreams, admittedly.

Relegation... very saddened to see Blackpool down, as everyone is.. the way they went at everyone was admirable, on another day they could've won at Old Trafford. Shame they are appalling at defending. Reminds me of someone...

Birmingham down I am thrilled with. Their supporters I have encountered are always vile people, chanting about breaking Eduardo's leg, and generally looking for aggro before and after the game. Good riddance!

Wigan staying up is good too... only because I really like Roberto Martinez. He always comes off so well in interviews, calm, collected, intelligent... hero