2010-2011 Football Thread

[takao]

EDIT: Reports say Edin Džeko has indeed signed for Man City, though we won't see him in action for another week. His goalscoring record in Germany is excellent, I expect him to make a difference for City and send at least one of Santa Cruz, Jo or Adebayor packing. If Mancini can bring himself to play two strikers at the same time, a Džeko-Tevz pairing sounds pretty tasty.

at wolfsburg he was great in partnering with a classic center forward (Grafite) which left him the ability to roam a little around, especially over the left wing
his biggest strength though is the fast attack and direct movement towards the goal
not playing with 2 strikersmakes no sense with Dzeko

i'm a little skeptical if his playing style will fit with an 'all star' squad mentality at Man City. at wolfsburg he was indispensible and the big fan favorite together with Grafite

 

[daneoni]

Credit to Leeds but still...can't we even win a home match without Fabregas, Nasri or Walcott in the team. Honestly!

 

[awmazz]

Today may just be one of the most exciting days awmazz has ever known.

Hodgson out, Dalglish in.

I would say predictable is the exact opposite of exciting. Probably the only time I've ever predicted something so accurately, just because it was so predictable.

My next prediction - watch him beat United tomorrow with exactly the same bunch of misfits and ne'er-do-wells who lost to Wolves and Blackburn. The difference a manager can make.

It'll be very interesting to see which players Liverpool sign in January now. Will they be for Dalglish's style of play or Deschamps for next season if Kenny really isn't in it for the long haul?


Edit - after reading some of the articles coming out now, I now suspect Kenny will be buying for himself, not any possible successor. I wasn't aware that he put his hand up for the job before but the previous management opted for Benitez instead. Which changes everything. He *wants* the job back and always has. For any doubters as to whether a second coming is the wisest choice, at least he's on probation to prove himself for the rest of this season before Liverpool sign him permanently. But seriously, it's an easy gig - he can't do any worse, can he? Avoid relegation and finish in the top half and the job's his next season if he wants it. Win the FA Cup and they'll carve his name in stone on the contract.

And also, Hodgson's resume is a very long, long list of clubs (and countries). He moves around a lot. In between his successes he looks to have been sacked like this a few times before. My question is why, when he finds a club and success like Copenhagen, does he leave for 'greener pastures' in Serie A? I suppose he always has to try for the bigger jobs if the chance is offered, but I think he would have learned by now or he must enjoy the sense of deja vu. His current situation of leaving Fulham only to be sacked by Liverpool is a near identical mirror-image to his leaving a winning Copenhagen only to be sacked by Udinese halfway through his first season there. His ambition got in hs way I think, which would have been better served by staying long term at Fulham to build success there rather than trying to find it ready-made at a bigger club.

 

[Jaffa Cake]

I read the other day that Hodgson has only been sacked once before, and that was at Blackburn.

He's moved around a bit to be sure, but I take that as an indication that he seeks a challenge more than anything.

EDIT: No, reading up it looks like he was indeed sacked prior to that move to Udinese.

 

[awmazz]

Will turn out to be a bad move in the long run i sense.

Oh dear, I don't think Dalglish returning to management is a very good idea.

Mark these two posts #1649 and #1650 for revisiting at the end of the season for their hindsight/foresight scores!

So what's Kenny's starting point?

• Appointed two days before Man Utd FA Cup clash.
• Liverpool sitting 12th in the League, a mere 4 points above the relegation zone and one place below Everton (albeit with a game in hand).
• Have lost 5 of their past 8 prem league matches. Won the other three, but two of those were against relegation strugglers.
• Knocked out of the League Cup by Northampton Town.
• Topped their Europa group - but only with 2 wins from 6 games for the worst winning rate of all 12 groups winners and even of 9 of the runners-up.

See how he goes from this position onwards now. He's still got both theEuropa League and the FA Cup to salvage the season from.

So FA Cup first off - big test but he's in a no-lose situation because he's not had the time to even work on anything, just select the team/positions, talk to them and give them a bit of motivation.

Then a mere four days to recover for the away trip to Blackpool who beat Liverpool at Anfield earlier. And having only won a single away match out of 10 all season under Hodgson.

Two 'miracles' in four days, can he do it? If not, it's still too soon so Hodgson can still be blamed, but Kenny can take credit for any miraculous win and turnaround.

 

[Jaffa Cake]

If beating Blackpool away would be classed as a 'miracle', I think that says a lot about Liverpool's standing at the moment...

 

[awmazz]

If beating Blackpool away would be classed as a 'miracle', I think that says a lot about Liverpool's standing at the moment...

Exactly, it's pretty sad isn't it. Heck, I'd say the supporters would be happy with just a draw by the seaside. Which is why I've been saying Roy should have gone long ago. Kenny's now in the position of not actually having to do anything miraculous to become a miracle worker. All praise King Kenny!

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Liverpool fans will continue to heap abuse on Hodgson, but I'm going to stick to my guns and say he had the odds stacked so high against him that I can't put all the blame on him for our horrible form. But it is fair to say that his system was struggling to turn our form around.

Thanks Roy, you gave it a go. Better luck at your next club.

My next prediction - watch him beat United tomorrow with exactly the same bunch of misfits and ne'er-do-wells who lost to Wolves and Blackburn. The difference a manager can make

I don't want to come across as negative - really wish I had your faith in the man, and I really really really want you to be right. But I just can't help knowing that while a very popular move, this is also a very risky move.

Edit - after reading some of the articles coming out now, I now suspect Kenny will be buying for himself, not any possible successor.

Indeed - Dalglish is not going to be a temporary manager. The reason NESV were reluctant to appoint Dalglish in the summer is because once he's in, the Kop will not let him be gotten rid of easily. Who wants to be the guy who fires their beloved King Kenny?

Two 'miracles' in four days, can he do it? If not, it's still too soon so Hodgson can still be blamed, but Kenny can take credit for any miraculous win and turnaround.

Dalglish is going to get WAY more slack from the fans than any other manager would. He can make lots of mistakes and the fans will blame Hodgson, the owners, the league - anyone but their beloved manager.

In a way this is a good thing, because it will put less pressure on Dalglish and allow him to get on with his job. On the other hand it's just an emotional response from the fans rather than an objective assessment.

Alright. I've been negative enough now. Prove me wrong, Mr Dalglish. Perform a miracle for me. I'm behind the man 100%. His reputation is well earned, and I would like nothing better than to see him continue where he left off.

 

[Jaffa Cake]

Nosing around a few of the football forums, comments from Liverpool supporters regarding Mr Dalglish's appointment are in the vein of what we hear from their Newcastle United counterparts regarding Keegan and his messianic qualities. And we all know how well that went down...

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Nosing around a few of the football forums, comments from Liverpool supporters regarding Mr Dalglish's appointment are in the vein of what we hear from their Newcastle United counterparts regarding Keegan and his messianic qualities. And we all know how well that went down...

People speak of hands shaking, out of body experiences, people speaking in tongues.... I think Brian Laws wet himself again.

 

[awmazz]

Nosing around a few of the football forums, comments from Liverpool supporters regarding Mr Dalglish's appointment are in the vein of what we hear from their Newcastle United counterparts regarding Keegan and his messianic qualities. And we all know how well that went down...

That's not really a reflection on the merits or not of bringing a successful manager back for a second term as the situation wasn't about how good he was as a manager, it was about the club's new owner not wanting to spend the money to buy needed new players. Had he been able to buy in-form players like before, he woud have been just as successful as the last time in charge.

I see that situation as actually the reverse of the one at Liverpool now, with the new owners prepared to spend money to give the 2nd Coming what he needs to succeed.

 

[takao]

IMHO liverpool actually has been overperforming the last years actually... the lack of any _width_ in their squad is finally coming back to hurt them after years of having a utter useless transfer policy

they have 2-3 (torres, kuyt, meireles) top players, 2-3 overrated but decent enough ones (maxi , reina, gerrard) and after that only players who are average at best ...

first priority for improvements should have been the defense:
i don't know if carragher has still been playing lately but he needs to be replaced hands down he is dropping in ability with age ridiculously fast,
Skrtel: passable defender ... but hasn't got the quality for a team with Liverpool's ambition
Agger: similiar
Johnson: should be playing as a back up winger (he can cross after all), clueless as a defender, that he is considered "the best right full back of the england squad" should be a dead givaway to replace him ASAP

 

[Jaffa Cake]

Clearly, they ought to be sending their young defenders out on loan to get some experience under their belts. Sending a lad like, say, Daniel Ayala out on loan to, say, a mid-table Championship side within a reasonable distance (say, the other end of the M62) will surely pay dividends in the future.

The Second Coming is probably working on a deal right now, one would think.

By the way, if Dalglish is the Second Coming that would mean that – in the minds of Liverpool supporters at least – Robbie Fowler is his dad. Blimey.

 

[takao]

Clearly, they ought to be sending their young defenders out on loan to get some experience under their belts. Sending a lad like, say, Daniel Ayala out on loan to, say, a mid-table Championship side within a reasonable distance (say, the other end of the M62) will surely pay dividends in the future.

true but with an age of 20 there should be already some worthy deal ahead of having a chance at being first time regular ... after all expierence is becoming less and less important for league games (international + cup games are a different matter)

for comparison one might look at this season best defense in germany:
Dortmund conceded 10 goals in 17 league games and their line up and age:
Piszczek: 25
Subotic: 22
Hummels: 22
Schmelzer: 22

but i think this is part of a more general trend of players becoming younger and younger..

 

[awmazz]

Is there a rivalry between Hull and Wigan in football that carries over from rugby league? Here in Australia those two names are known only for rugby league so everybody would be looking at that 3-2 result and wondering why it was such a low scoring game. Anyway, better luck when you play them again in the third round next season Jaffa - third time lucky!

Following Lincoln City as my second team at the other end of the spectrum from Arsenal in the other high scoring but close result - the battle of the Div 2 cellar dwellers in the cup replay and Lincoln threw away a 2-1 lead to lose 3-4... to the team more likely to be relegated completely out of the league than they are. There are people, unlike myself, who actually paid to go watch them do that...

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Following Lincoln City as my second team at the other end of the spectrum from Arsenal in the other high scoring but close result - the battle of the Div 2 cellar dwellers in the cup replay and Lincoln threw away a 2-1 lead to lose 3-4... to the team more likely to be relegated completely out of the league than they are. There are people, unlike myself, who actually paid to go watch them do that...

Do you follow A-League at all? I just watched Adelaide smash Melbourne.

 

[Jaffa Cake]

Is there a rivalry between Hull and Wigan in football that carries over from rugby league? Here in Australia those two names are known only for rugby league so everybody would be looking at that 3-2 result and wondering why it was such a low scoring game.

Actually, I wouldn't say that there's really a rivalry between us at all – if you were to ask supporters of both clubs who they consider to be their top ten rivals I'd be highly surprised to see anyone name the other club. Certainly that would be the case from a City perspective, swiftaw could probably say if it's the same from a Wigan point of view.

In fact, one could argue that there's more of a rivalry between the two football clubs and the rugby league teams, rather than an inter-football club rivalry. There seems to be some friction between sections of the Warriors and Athletic support over in Wigan, and the same is true here with us and the two professional rugby league clubs in the City (in particular Hull FC, rather than Hull KR). We're constantly being told that Hull is a 'rugby town', as proved by the fact that it's home to 'the biggest derby in world sport' which strangely can't manage to sell out the ground.

I don't think that matters are helped by the respective clubs sharing grounds – both Wigan teams call the DW Stadium home while we share the KC with Hull FC. It's like a couple of siblings who don't get on having to share a bedroom.

Anyway, I took our nephew Short Cake to the KC yesterday (only paid £3 for him, ace). Not the greatest of matches to be sure but it got a bit exciting at the end at least.

 

[daneoni]

Not a good half for Liverpool overall.

 

[Jaffa Cake]

That's going to be Gerrard out for the next few matches, then. It looks like Dalglish is going to have to select another player to ineffectually shoot from range in his absence.

 

[daneoni]

United weren't exactly great...again but Liverpool lacked creativity in midfield and Torres was just not there today. Shame really.

Chelsea to draw United please.

 

[Jaffa Cake]

Here's the Fourth Round draw, then...


Sheffield Wednesday v Wycombe Wanderers or Hereford United

West Ham United v Nottingham Forest

Aston Villa v Blackburn Rovers

Stevenage v Reading

Notts County v Leicester City or Manchester City

Doncaster Rovers or Wolverhampton Wanderers v Stoke City or Cardiff City

Birmingham City v Coventry City

Burnley v Burton Albion

Swansea City v Leyton Orient

Southampton v Manchester United

Everton v Chelsea or Ipswich Town

Fulham v Tottenham Hotspur

Arsenal or Leeds United v Huddersfield Town

Bolton Wanderers v Wigan Athletic

Watford v Brighton and Hove Albion

Torquay United v Crawley Town or Derby County

 

[daneoni]

Uddersfield at home...i'll take it. United away to Southampton, Chelsea away to Everton, and the London derby.

Is that the match that will lift Chelsea into resurgence?

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Huge surprise, that. United failed to score from open play, although once they got their penalty everyone knew a second goal would be superfluous, given Liverpool's anemic offense.

 

[Jaffa Cake]

That's one miracle unfulfilled then. I reckon Hodgson's to blame for today.

Uddersfield...

Typed with a perfect Yorkshire accent – I salute you.

 

[woolyback]

Huge surprise, that. United failed to score from open play, although once they got their penalty everyone knew a second goal would be superfluous, given Liverpool's anemic offense.

Second half was the best I'd seen us play in quite a while (which speaks volumes) and at one point I thought we might've pinched a goal. Not too sure about Utd's kit either - all black with some sort of whistle attachment....

Not really sure what to expect for the rest of the season - has Kenny just come in to steady the ship and make sure relegation is avoided or is he building for the longer term? Did hear something about him asking for a 4 year contract but given only a year

One thing is for sure, Torres needs to start showing some interest (assuming he can get some decent support/service) but today he really looked like he couldn't be arsed.