2010-2011 Football Thread

[Jaffa Cake]

It sounds like the two Arsenal injuries were fairly innocuous, rather than the players in question getting clattered by heavy Stokie challenges or similar.

I for one am delighted to see Stoke City in the Premier League, best place for 'em out of the way of the rest of us.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Indeed, Hull City are climbing the table these days. Playoff hopes?

 

[Jaffa Cake]

Playoff hopes?

As I've mentioned before, where a promotion campaign to the Premier League is concerned I feel that the journey is better than the destination...

Interestingly, we're on roughly the same points tally now as we were at this stage of the 2007/08 season which saw us end up at Wembley. We're quietly sneaking up there... QPR (dirty, time-wasting, match spoiling, injury feigning, new right-back injuring, mascot plagiarising, glove wearing cheats that they are) will take one of the automatic spots I reckon, so we'll see who takes the second. For me, you either want to win the title or the play-off final, runners-up leaves you a bit short changed.

 

[OllyW]

QPR (dirty, time-wasting, match spoiling, injury feigning, new right-back injuring, mascot plagiarising, glove wearing cheats that they are)

It didn't take very long for Colin Wanker to get them playing his way.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

As I've mentioned before, where a promotion campaign to the Premier League is concerned I feel that the journey is better than the destination...

What's the general feeling "on Humberside"? Are the Hull City faithful not interested in the thought of another Premier League stint so soon after the fallout from the previous one? I suppose it's hard not to want to win everything, that's the point of competition, right?

It didn't take very long for Colin Wanker to get them playing his way.

I think he'll continue to provide us with great entertainment if he gets QPR promoted.

 

[oscillatewildly]

Advantage Marseilles, but not bad all things* considered.

* All things; Carrick, Gibson and Fletcher.

Turning to Liverpool, Dalglish is grooming his next dressing room DJ:

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/world-of-sport/article/33541/

The future doesn't look good Lord Blackadder.

Cheers,
OW

 

[takao]

meanwhile the situation looks rather dim for the italian clubs with all 3 losing at home

Roma is pretty much out of the game with loosing 2-3 to Shaktar Donezk, they simply are too strong on their own turf

Milan still has their chances but will Tottenham play at home without scoring a goal ?

Inter is pretty much done: having to beat münchen at home ... if there is a reference point for "against all odds", it's _that_

 

[Fuzzy14]

and seeing as this is the NFL topic

Just back from site, pleased to see Rangers managed to score one away from home despite El Hadji playing alone up front which I didn't think was a good idea.

EDIT:
Looks like Rangers were out there after a late Sporting goal only for an even later goal from Edu. I still don't get this new fangled offside rule, I stood for about 10 seconds in disbelief waiting for the whistle to disallow the goal. Better than the Liverpool game, I would imagine!

 

[Lord Blackadder]

And just as I type this Kuyt scores, and we run out the final few minutes to beat Sparta 1-0.

I think Dlaglish has improved our defense somewhat, to the extent that Liverpool's greatest weakness at the moment is a lack of goalscoring ability. Cole seems to have had a decent if unspectacular night. Suarez and Carroll are still more or less on the horizon so it's hard to judge this transitional team we're putting out at the moment.

Still, a win is a win is a win. I'll take it. Without playing particularly well, we are now in the last 16 of the Europa Cup.

The future doesn't look good Lord Blackadder.

I'm OK with it. Heck, I'd take him to a Justin Bieber concert if that's what it takes to get the man scoring goals.

<shuddering uncontrollably at what I just wrote>

meanwhile the situation looks rather dim for the italian clubs with all 3 losing at home

The Italian sides have fared even worse than I expected. They are well and truly out of it barring a miracle.

EDIT: Can't remember if I mentioned it earlier, but Columbus had a dreary 0-0 draw with Real Salt Lake at Crew Stadium for their first leg of the Champions League knockout tie.

The tie simply highlighted the disadvantages of the MLS calendar - both teams are still very much in preseason form and have zereo match fitness. The touches were horrible, the organization nonexistent. At it's best MLS is a Championship quality league, but this was a Sunday League standard of play. Yuck. Three red cards in the match but it doesn't matter because all the players were equally terrible.

Whichever team makes it to the next round better find some match fitness fast or humiliation will be on the cards.

Looks like Rangers were out there after a late Sporting goal only for an even later goal from Edu. I still don't get this new fangled offside rule, I stood for about 10 seconds in disbelief waiting for the whistle to disallow the goal. Better than the Liverpool game, I would imagine!

I'm sure it was, and it's good to see Edu pop up and score a big goal.

 

[Jaffa Cake]

Anyway, my buddy just opened a sports forum, and seeing as this is the NFL topic, I figured I'd let you guys know.

I hope there's no discussion of soccerball over there, as that sort of thing is only of interest to girls and communists.

It didn't take very long for Colin Wanker to get them playing his way.

Heh – I've been saying such things long before Colin tipped up there.

What's the general feeling "on Humberside"? Are the Hull City faithful not interested in the thought of another Premier League stint so soon after the fallout from the previous one? I suppose it's hard not to want to win everything, that's the point of competition, right?

Well, you always want your team to do well and all that, and to play at the highest level possible... but the Premier League really isn't all it makes itself out to be.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Well, you always want your team to do well and all that, and to play at the highest level possible... but the Premier League really isn't all it makes itself out to be.

It's a big moneymaker for a few big clubs (mine among them), but it's also a sort of good-ol-boys club that does not want to share. It seems that transitioning from Championship winner to Premier League survivalist is a risky business.

 

[aloofman]

It seems that transitioning from Championship winner to Premier League survivalist is a risky business.

But if you can straddle that line and rake in the financial windfall of playing in the EPL without having to spend the money to actually compete for the title, that can be pretty lucrative. I suppose I'm not the first to think of that.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

But if you can straddle that line and rake in the financial windfall of playing in the EPL without having to spend the money to actually compete for the title, that can be pretty lucrative. I suppose I'm not the first to think of that.

It seems that promoted clubs are always faced with a choice - load up with debt, try to buy better players and make a push for the top 10 or even a spot in Europe, or remain firmly within your budget and do your best with available resources (shrewd buys, loans from bigger clubs etc.), accepting the likelihood of going back down.

 

[Jaffa Cake]

I suppose it's a question of ambition, and what is realistically achievable.

Being in the Premier League has some great points in its favour, don't get me wrong. Your team gets a higher level of coverage, you get to see grounds and teams you normally wouldn't without a favourable cup tie, and you get to shout abuse at John Terry first hand. But as a supporter, you want to see your club win things, achieve things – and realistically we're never going to win that division unless we suddenly become the plaything of the world's richest oil chap or something. That hasn't always been the case though. Unfashionable, 'small' clubs like Nottingham Forest, Derby County and Ipswich Town won some of the top domestic and European honours in the late 70s and early 80s – could that happen now? I'd say not – imagine Blackpool not only surviving but winning the Premier League next season, and following that up with successive Champions League triumphs. That's essentially what Forest did.

Now though, the top prizes go to a handful of very, very rich clubs – we're not going to win the League, Bolton aren't going to win the League, Stoke aren't, nor are any clubs beyond the ones you can count on the fingers of one hand (that should be five fingers, for the aforementioned Stokies). The best we can hope for is to be a well-run club, pulling in good crowds and picking up the odd upset win as we perennially finish mid-table. Unless there's a huge – and unlikely – change in the way the game is run we and the vast majority of other clubs will never be able to amount to more than that – and indeed, many clubs are putting themselves at huge financial risk just to be able to be one of those also rans. Long-term concerns come a distant second to short-term gain, and all too many clubs seem willing to gamble their future well-being.

So, basically – for most clubs the ultimate ambition isn't trophies or the like, it's the monotony of a division where you're expected to make up the numbers and smile sweetly while Ferguson, Wenger and their ilk have their way with you for the entertainment of the millions watching on TV. Not really the stuff dreams are made of, is it?

 

[Fizzoid]

There's always the joy of the cup though, whether it be FA, League or Europa. Look at Fulham last season, that certainly got them some coverage, and got their manager a high profile job with one of the 'Top 4' clubs...
Oh...

 

[Jaffa Cake]

No, we're contractually obliged to get knocked out of the FA Cup in the Third Round by Wigan each year.

 

[takao]

that's why i am for reducing the number of top teams in the PL and la liga by at least 2 teams: that would reduce the amount of games per team by 4 and thus the load on players and directly chop out "also played some games" teams in the middle of the table

regarding money it's even worse in the CL where it's obvious that only the teams which played the last 4-5 seasons in the CL actually have any chance to succeed in the group phase.it's simply impossible for countries with a single CL spot. With only 1 CL spot, finishing second in the league very likely means your financials are hit really bad and thus in such countries the teams have never the chance to invest money consistently

in how many of the big leagues is there actually any competition regarding the top positions and where former champion teams have to figth against regelation ? thanks to the massive amount of "also runs" in the EPL and la liga teams the top teams never have to worry about doing that
in the german bundesliga chances are quite high that this season might end up being a disaster for 2-3 teams who didn't drop into the second league since decades: werder, wolfsburg, stuttgart all are in grave danger to leave the first league if they don't improve ... and all three played in european competitions this year

 

[oscillatewildly]

...

I'm OK with it. Heck, I'd take him to a Justin Bieber concert if that's what it takes to get the man scoring goals.

<shuddering uncontrollably at what I just wrote>

He might go for the new style Bieber haircut, the programmer look is a bit dated.

Is Kuyt looking for a contract extension? As you say, take the result; N'Gog though

----

90+2; name on the cup Fuzzy? Hope David Healy does well.

On Ipswich, from - http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football-interview--masterclass-with-bobby-robson-1112091.html

So, for better or for worse, Robson left the England job and went overseas. What, I wonder, do they make of us there? "The Premiership is envied, no question. Our stadiums, collectively, are probably the best in the world. They envy our public, our fervour, our competitiveness. The football is not totally admired. I've just come from Holland, where they play for possession. Our football is frenetic, but it's compelling. There are hardly any foreign players who wouldn't play in the Premiership."

And hardly any who don't, it sometimes seems. Robson smiles. "Yes, well, I helped to start all that. I brought two players to Ipswich, Arnold Muhren and Frans Thyssen, who you couldn't find in England. Muhren was a wonderful passer, great vision. Thyssen was a fantastic dribbler. I sold [Brian] Talbot for pounds 450,000, bought Muhren for pounds 150,00, Thyssen for pounds 200,000, both better players than Talbot, and put pounds 50,000 in the bank.

"But I knew that they would benefit the First Division, you see. That they were better than what we already had. Now I'm told there are about 370 foreigners in our football. That means 370 British players who do not get a game on a Saturday. You have to be careful. We know how good Bergkamp and Kanu and Zola are. We don't know yet about the foreigners Gerard Houllier has bought. But it's no good paying pounds 3m to bring in a foreigner, find he's not good enough and stick him in the reserves. That means he stops a British player being developed through the reserves system. Also, we have to look at our own market. Are we overpricing our own players?

"Alex Ferguson has done brilliantly to bring through Scholes, Butt, Beckham, the Nevilles, Wes Brown. But I had no option at Ipswich. We probably ran the best youth system in the country. We had to. We had no money, but I had that other important commodity, time. I won't win anything with 17-year-olds, but I might when they're 20, so I need three years... so please give me a five-year contract. The chairman did better than that. He gave me a 10-year contract."

---

The bit about time - owners', fans' and players' patience these days!

Muhren

Cheers,
OW

 

[XIII]

Looking forward to Sunday, I haven't been to new Wem-ber-lee yet...

Barcelona is looming though, and looks like Walcott will miss it - Wenger saying 2-3 weeks out. Rubbish

Also, I know this is completely unrelated, but I am lost outside of this thread on MR and wondered if I could quickly ask a question! I've popped a screenshot below - it seems to be quite a new thing for me to get these annoying ads which you can't close, which stick to the top or side of the screen, and often cover up content - is there some way to kill them?! Thanks..

 

[oscillatewildly]

XIII,

Sorry, I have nothing beyond blocking pop-ups and searching add-ons for something re ad blocking.

No wonder JJB Sports are in trouble, Fashion Laces!

Is Fabregas definitely out? Is there anything to stop him leading the team out even if he isn't playing?

As a neutral, here's to a good day.

Cheers,
OW

 

[Fizzoid]

Yeah, feel for him not being able to Captain his side to what is potentially his first piece of silverware. Seems Wenger has ruled him out. Still, probably for the best, I hear Birmingham don't play 'propper' football

 

[XIII]

Yes, Fabregas definitely out. van Persie will captain the team. Maybe it will give Fabregas some extra motivation to get us to another final this year

I know, fashion laces! I'll have a search, I do already use an ad blocker which is why it's annoying it's getting through.

 

[Jaffa Cake]

I'm on Firefox, and Adblock Plus does the trick for me with annoying pop ups.

Fashion laces?! They'll be trying to foist magenta boots and snoods on us next.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

So, basically – for most clubs the ultimate ambition isn't trophies or the like, it's the monotony of a division where you're expected to make up the numbers and smile sweetly while Ferguson, Wenger and their ilk have their way with you for the entertainment of the millions watching on TV. Not really the stuff dreams are made of, is it?

The worst bit for most teams is, I really don't see that changing. I think the days when Forest could win the league/European Cup are over forever. The leagues have sort of fossilized, and the top clubs will always be the top clubs now.

There's always the joy of the cup though

Isn't it called the "magic" of the cup? Apparently the "magic" of the cup involves hated Crawley Town narrowly losing an incredibly dull game against even more hated Manchester United...

regarding money it's even worse in the CL where it's obvious that only the teams which played the last 4-5 seasons in the CL actually have any chance to succeed in the group phase.it's simply impossible for countries with a single CL spot. With only 1 CL spot, finishing second in the league very likely means your financials are hit really bad and thus in such countries the teams have never the chance to invest money consistently.

I was just discussing this with Lady Blackadder last night. I wish the Champions League was literally only made up of Champions or at most the top two finishers in a league. Everyone else can play in the Europa League.

I understand the argument against this - the third placed Premier League or Italian side is going to be better than the champions of most leagues outside the top few and so on. But I don't care. I like the idea of a shorter, more intense competition where only winners (or maybe winners and runners up) play. There are too many CL matches, the competition is too diluted with extra teams.

I understand it's all a moneymaking exercise, and it isn't going to change. But it's stupid.

Also, I know this is completely unrelated, but I am lost outside of this thread on MR and wondered if I could quickly ask a question! I've popped a screenshot below - it seems to be quite a new thing for me to get these annoying ads which you can't close, which stick to the top or side of the screen, and often cover up content - is there some way to kill them?! Thanks..

Poor Cesc. I would be pretty ticked off if I picked up a knock and missed a cup final. But he's got to focus on bigger prizes anyway - perhaps this will only increase his hunger.

I am forced to use Internet Exploder at work, it has the same problem, and my machine is so locked down there's nothing I can do about it. Firefox and pop up blocker plugins are the way to go.

 

[Fuzzy14]

I'm on Firefox and I don't get any pop-ups. But then again I'm on old IE in the work and I don't get pop-ups either. I'm wondering if the problem is Google. I used a 'clean' new Windows laptop to browse Halfords and from now on I get hit with Google ads for gel filled saddles.

As a slight annoyance, for some reason when at work the BBC think I'm abroad and don't let me watch the football highlights. The amount of adverts on it is rather shocking as well.

League business as usual in Scotland this weekend, I don't suspect any surprises (i.e. Old Firm dropping points.) I'm currently loving the comparisons being drawn in the press between SPL and La Liga, but unfortunately it's not due to the standard of play.

**
Oh forgot to say, clear out your cookies.