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2011-2012 NBA Season Thread
- Thread starter Queen of Spades
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I hope Ledouche blows out his knees. Both of them. Most arrogant athlete in sports.
I actually like Lebron a lot better now that he's lost most of his fans.
On the Cavs, he'd be doing his dumb baby powder thing and dancing around nonstop acting a fool. Now after being the most hated guy in the NBA for 2 years, I get the sense he's finally playing to win and playing for himself and doesn't care what other people think
I'm not sure if we need an off-season thread, but to continue the discussion from another thread:
Jeremy Lin is a Rocket.
Good, bad, or ugly?
I have a cool perspective, because I'm a Knicks fan living in Houston - so I'm seeing both sides of this one.
Jeremy Lin is a Rocket.
Good, bad, or ugly?
I have a cool perspective, because I'm a Knicks fan living in Houston - so I'm seeing both sides of this one.
I think that contract is a serious gamble. The potential $30ish million dollar cap hit in year 3 is crazy, in my opinion. And the Rockets have to think Lin is going to be a star for more than 26 games, since they let Dragic/Lowry go, two players with fairly similar production to Lin.
I think so too. The Rockets, at this point, are desperate. I would have given the money (and the 4th year player option) to Dragic before I would have given it to Lin. Dragic has at least proven over a longer period of time he could get it done. And with Lowry I think it was more about not getting along with McHale.
Who are the Rockets going to get? The one they cut last year or the one that became a cult sensation on the Knicks? He has shown he can thrive off of the pick & roll - which McHale loves - but currently there isn't much else on the team. The Rockets are still in the middle of a Dwighmare - let's see if putting all their eggs in one basket pays off for them. If not - and they don't land Dwight or Bynum - it's going to be a long, ugly season.
beyond ugly.
it is stupid (from the knicks side)
it is obviously a good move for the rocket's side.
the kid can flat-out play. he single-handed took a moribund team full of nobodies and put them back into the picture.
yes the sample size is small, but not fluke-small. he played 25+ games, under increasing pressure and consistently performed well.
in 3 years, when the 15 mil season kicks in, he would be arguably the second-best player in the team, and probably worth that sort of money if you take into consideration the additional revenue he would generate (especially in the NY market).
and the luxury tax consideration would be the same (only worse) for amare's and melo's contracts (who will make some 25 mil) and for chandler (who would make ~18), not to mention the many millions that will go to the various camby, kidd, felton, jr smith, novak, etc.
in 3 yars lin will be significantly better than any of them.
besides, if things don't work out as planned you can always trade him.
and if not, you eat the contract for one year, it is still worth the gamble bacuse the upside of this kid is absurd, in my opinion.
not to mention that from a team with the history of the knick in terms of overpaying useless players from marbury, curry etc..) it seems insane that they would stop when they finally have one with true potential.
it is stupid (from the knicks side)
it is obviously a good move for the rocket's side.
the kid can flat-out play. he single-handed took a moribund team full of nobodies and put them back into the picture.
yes the sample size is small, but not fluke-small. he played 25+ games, under increasing pressure and consistently performed well.
in 3 years, when the 15 mil season kicks in, he would be arguably the second-best player in the team, and probably worth that sort of money if you take into consideration the additional revenue he would generate (especially in the NY market).
and the luxury tax consideration would be the same (only worse) for amare's and melo's contracts (who will make some 25 mil) and for chandler (who would make ~18), not to mention the many millions that will go to the various camby, kidd, felton, jr smith, novak, etc.
in 3 yars lin will be significantly better than any of them.
besides, if things don't work out as planned you can always trade him.
and if not, you eat the contract for one year, it is still worth the gamble bacuse the upside of this kid is absurd, in my opinion.
not to mention that from a team with the history of the knick in terms of overpaying useless players from marbury, curry etc..) it seems insane that they would stop when they finally have one with true potential.
Speaking of Decisionless Dwight, I'm hearing the Lakers are pushing hard to land him. This would make me very, very unhappy.
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I mean, I'm more inclined to see your point when you consider the Knicks brought back Raymond Felton on a 3-year deal, albeit for only $10 million, when Felton doesn't have nearly the upside (or the lucrative marketing potential) of Lin. The ridiculous Amare/Melo contracts notwithstanding, at some point you have to practice some prudence and not let hype force you into a bad decision.
$25 million for a 26 game resume is absurd in my opinion. I understand paying for potential/upside, but that's a bit much.
Speaking of Decisionless Dwight, I'm hearing the Lakers are pushing hard to land him. This would make me very, very unhappy.
Agreed. I can't wait until this entire saga ends. He's a d-bag and I certainly wouldn't want him on my team. It's almost embarrassing the lengths the Rockets are going to - and they continue to get nowhere on this.
Agree completely. And this from a team that cut him a year ago. At least with Felton - you know what you're getting. And you're getting it a heck of a lot cheaper.
As for Lin on the Knicks - I haven't checked, but how many games did he actually play with both Melo and Amare? Were his numbers the result of one or both of them being absent? And do you think they would be the same over the course of a full season playing with both of those guys?
I think for either team, it was a gamble. Only time will tell who made the right decision.
Intellectually, I agree with you, but I'm sure he's going to put up huge numbers in LA and then every scrub they bring in will suddenly start playing at 150% of his talent level. The Lakers always seem to be able to reload without giving anything up (ie Pau Gasol for nothing), and it drives me batty. And of course free agents love the sunshine and the chance to run into Brad Pitt at the grocery store. That's why it was so fun to watch them lose out on Chris Paul last year.
Before Dwight Howard lost his damn mind, he was a seemingly normal, easygoing guy that can absolutely dominate. I don't want him motivated and on the Lakers.
I can't disagree with anything you've said here. And of course I can say I wouldn't want him on my team when the Knicks have no chance of getting him.
I do feel bad for the Rockets, though. Word is they had a deal with the Magic last season and he didn't want to come here - and that's the reason he signed the 1 year extension. I'm not sure what their Plan B is for the season if they don't land 1 of the 2 centers. Rockets fans continue to be excited by all of the talk, but even if they land him - they still worry that he will flake out on the team during the year because he doesn't want to be here.
To me, this is the most unfair aspect of the NBA, and I'm not even sure how you'd address it. The fact is, if the Rockets/Bucks/Bobcats/Timberwolves tried to acquire a player, and the Lakers were also in the running, the player would choose the Lakers almost every time.
It applies to free agents, but also to trades where players can veto certain locations. It's even happened with the Celtics. Obviously I'm bitter that the Celtics have 17 championships, excellent lobster, and amazing fans, and still players balk about playing in Boston because of cold weather and other BS. And we don't even have it as bad as other franchises.
There's no incentive to help revitalize franchises, and be a part of creating something special. And in this case I'm not talking about Boston - I'm talking about the lowly teams in need of a turn around. Unless you strike it rich in the NBA lottery, you're screwed for a long time. The league's best players prefer to join up and press the easy button, and it reeks. I could not imagine being a fan of Washington or Milwaukee or Charlotte.
And before anyone brings up the Big Three (the real big three, Pierce/Garnett/Allen), the difference is all three of the OG Big Three played their tails off for their original franchises for a long, long time. No one can ever say they bailed early. They joined each other at the end of their careers for a chance at a championship that they wouldn't have sniffed alone on bad Minnesota/Seattle/Boston teams. It's different from what LeBron/Wade/Bosh and others are trying to do.
you are so cut when you agree with each other....
for what i read, the felton contract is 18/4 years with the 4th a player's option,
so in proportion i think that is much more ridiculous than what the rockets offered lin.
i didn't dislike felton two years ago, but last year he was horrible and he has zero upside.
plus he is as unexciting as they come.
what is really mind-boggling is that they let line go for nothing. it's not that they can use that money/cap space to sign someone else. they can't.
with our without matching, their flexibility is nil from now on.
as a minimum , you match and then, if you don't like him, you trade him asap for another need.
you don't get rid of assets for no apparent reasons. much less of the hottest asset in the league last year. you really think that they couldn't have traded him for -for example- a decent PF or an SG in two year's time when the 'big' contract is expiring, or even this january?
team waive bigger contracts every year, this would pay itself just in merchandising and tv contracts.
for what i read, the felton contract is 18/4 years with the 4th a player's option,
so in proportion i think that is much more ridiculous than what the rockets offered lin.
i didn't dislike felton two years ago, but last year he was horrible and he has zero upside.
plus he is as unexciting as they come.
what is really mind-boggling is that they let line go for nothing. it's not that they can use that money/cap space to sign someone else. they can't.
with our without matching, their flexibility is nil from now on.
as a minimum , you match and then, if you don't like him, you trade him asap for another need.
you don't get rid of assets for no apparent reasons. much less of the hottest asset in the league last year. you really think that they couldn't have traded him for -for example- a decent PF or an SG in two year's time when the 'big' contract is expiring, or even this january?
team waive bigger contracts every year, this would pay itself just in merchandising and tv contracts.
you are so cut when you agree with each other....
for what i read, the felton contract is 18/4 years with the 4th a player's option,
Oh really? I thought it was 3/$10 - okay, then yes, that contract is a bit ridiculous. I've never been a big fan of Felton's game. He's strictly okay.
what is really concerning is the apparent toxic environment in the knick locker room.
kidd saying (from jail i guess he is the one who will be closing the game, melo tooting his own horn, smith actually happily tweeting about lin's leving in celebration.
and relly no one worth rooting for. chandler. but that's it (and novak+shump, but they are not even going to play)
ugh.
kidd saying (from jail i guess
he is the one who will be closing the game, melo tooting his own horn, smith actually happily tweeting about lin's leving in celebration.and relly no one worth rooting for. chandler. but that's it (and novak+shump, but they are not even going to play)
ugh.
The Knicks should have matched because the Rockets' offer was 3 years, and if he wasn't working out on the Knicks by mid-year next season, trade him. Someone would take Lin for the remaining 2.5 seasons and take the risk because, under a system where he's allowed to control the offense, he's effective. He's also marketable in a country with 1.3 billion people in it!
Felton has no chance of overperforming based on his salary. Lin could, even in year 3.
Felton has no chance of overperforming based on his salary. Lin could, even in year 3.
You're exactly correct. And they've been talking about this in Houston all summer. The only way for one of these "small" market teams to even have a chance is to completely tank during the regular season and hope you hit big with a high lottery pick. Oklahoma City/Seattle had a few great drafts and were able to put together their own mini "big 3" without having to worry about trying to land a big free agent. They seem to be the exception and not the rule. And they were smart and signed them all to long term deals.
The Rockets are one of those in-between teams. Not awful - in fact, they've been the "best" lottery team the last 3 years. So what do they do? Either sell the farm and overpay in an effort to get a guy like Dwight Howard for a year - and hope you can convince him to sign on, all the while trying to convince another star to come and play with him.
If the Lakers do in fact get Howard, the Rockets are screwed once again. They are left with Lin and about 9 forwards
. God love them, they're trying but continue to run into brick walls.
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yep, it was a no-brainer in my opinion.
but no-brainers is exactly what we have in our front office.
now I am left to root for
- a back-court composed of an overweight almost-has-been and a hare-brained knuckle-head, backed up by an alcoholic wife-beater and an octuagenarian argentinian rookie
- a front-court comprising a selfish ball-hog, a fire(esitinguisher)-fighter, two old glories and tyson chandler (ok, i do love tyson).
- directing this dynamic ensemble, the most iso-oriented and least adaptive coach of the league.
yeah! go-knicks!
the saddest part is that no mater what i say now, i know I will in fact end up rooting for the above
Me too....*sigh*
Such is life for a Knicks fan. Good thing I have the Jets.
Wait, what?
yep, it was a no-brainer in my opinion.
but no-brainers is exactly what we have in our front office.
now I am left to root for
- a back-court composed of an overweight almost-has-been and a hare-brained knuckle-head, backed up by an alcoholic wife-beater and an octuagenarian argentinian rookie
- a front-court comprising a selfish ball-hog, a fire(esitinguisher)-fighter, two old glories and tyson chandler (ok, i do love tyson).
- directing this dynamic ensemble, the most iso-oriented and least adaptive coach of the league.
yeah! go-knicks!
the saddest part is that no mater what i say now, i know I will in fact end up rooting for the above
Brilliant analysis of both the Knicks and the life of a fan.
Hang in there, things always turn around, especially for a flagship franchise like the Knicks. Also, I have to say you (and other analysts) have changed my mind about Jeremy Lin. They should have kept him. Especially over Jason Kidd/Raymond Felton.I guess I'll just never get used to the funny money of the NBA, but by comparison, Lin was a better deal.
Me too....*sigh*
Such is life for a Knicks fan. Good thing I have the Jets.
Wait, what?
*plays the world's tiniest violin*
I feel so terrible for you, Yankees fan.
Rooting for Jason Kidd - better or worse than rooting for Tim Tebow?
Have I mentioned David Ortiz is going on the DL? I'm sharpening my knife for the sepukku.
*plays the world's tiniest violin*
I feel so terrible for you, Yankees fan.
Rooting for Jason Kidd - better or worse than rooting for Tim Tebow?
Have I mentioned David Ortiz is going on the DL? I'm sharpening my knife for the sepukku.
*plays the world's tiniest violin*
I feel so terrible for you, Patriots and Celtics fan.
And you know it's a toss up between Kidd and Tebow. Kidd has been a **** since his Nets days, so I'm sure nobody is surprised by his latest crap. One difference is that he isn't deified by the media - unlike Tebow. Ugh.
What the hell are you talking about? Ray Allen played for two teams before Boston, and was nowhere near the end of his career when he was traded to Boston, nor was Garnett. Garnett was only a Timberwolve before he went to Boston, so I will give you that. You make NO sense when saying that those two worked their tails off for a "long, long time," but LeBron and Bosh didnt? LeBron played his whole career in Cleveland, as did Bosh in Toronto, and they were both FREE AGENTS when they left. What is the difference with those two joining Wade, who was a like long Heater, and the Celtics Big 3? Nothing. Bosh wasnt going to win in Toronto, like Garnett in Minnesota, and LeBron was not going to win in Cleveland, like Allen in Seattle AND Milwaukee.
Brilliant analysis of both the Knicks and the life of a fan.
What makes you think that things will turn around? They are the New York Knicks, and they have been going about it all wrong for how many years now? Nothing will change until everyone above the head coach is removed, and even then, that wont be enough. They need an owner who will fund the team, sit back, and get some management who actually know what they are doing.
People want to make a big deal about this Lin contract, well it was pretty smart by Houston. Regardless of how much Lin would be worth to the Knicks off the court, in the books, he would have cost them a lot of money in the third year of the deal. As the tax on the salary cap goes up, if I remember correctly, Lin's salary would have pushed the Knicks to a $40 million tax in the third year, which is something I dont think they would want to deal with. The Knicks mistake is that they went with that big offer to Novak, instead of getting Lin done first. The Heat showed how useless Novak is if he isnt getting wide open 3 point shots, yet the Knicks decided to give him a $15 million deal.
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Well, first of all, one major difference I forgot to mention is that the Celtics made TRADES to get those players. They created a big three in a way any team in the league could have. There's no unfair advantage in that. So yeah, it's a bit different from the colluding going on between players right now (see LeBron/Bosh/Wade).
And Garnet played for the Timberwolves for 12 seasons before getting traded, Allen for 11 seasons with the Bucks/Sonics (both times he was traded), and Pierce for 9 seasons on the Celtics. So quite a bit more work into their franchises than the 6 seasons and 7 seasons of LeBron and Bosh.
LeBron was not going to win in Cleveland? That's absurd. They made two finals appearances. They were one good trade away from getting over the hump.
The.316 said:
Because, the current Heat situation notwithstanding, the league is generally cyclical. Teams go through periods of growth and decline, neither lasts forever. It's not like the Knicks were Bobcats bad last year.
Knicks could've used the stretch provision or traded his expiring contract before year 3 to team that needed a point guard but was well under the cap. They could've also offered him a 2-4 year max contract without him testing the market. The guy already makes millions off endorsements, I think he would've been willing to sign a lower contract just to stay with the team he wanted to play on.
I read the SI article where they interviewed Lin and I'm convinced the Knicks didn't really want him. The FO only spoke to him once in the past month, and that was yesterday, for 30 seconds, to tell him they weren't matching. Meanwhile, over the past couple weeks, they actively recruited Nash, signed 2 starting pg's, and never gave Lin an offer.