2011 iMac Notes: Magic Trackpad Option, Display Connectivity, Boot Camp Update

[Anonymous Freak]

Daisy-chain iMacs as displays?

Because the iMac Display mode apparently is Thunderbolt-dependent, not backward compatible with DisplayPort-only systems, I wonder if this means you will be able to daisy-chain iMacs? For example, have one iMac in the center as the master; two iMacs (one on either side) each connected via Thunderbolt to the center, acting as two displays. Then, could you slave two more Cinema Displays (or any DisplayPort monitor, even more iMacs!) from those two 'outer' iMacs for a total of five displays? Apple said in the first generation of ThunderBolt systems that they could support two displays per Thunderbolt port with daisy-chaining, and AMD's chips can support up to 6 displays.

 

[theelysium]

I think there is an error on the iMac performance page.

It shows:

For i5
View attachment 283912

Then for i7
View attachment 283913

Shouldn't it show faster performance for the i7?

I sent an email to someone who works on their website asking them to double check that.

I thught was strange as well at first, but I believe that the comparison is between i5 1st gen vs 2nd gen and i7 1st gen vs 2nd gen.

Perhaps they're comparing the old i7 to the new i7?

I think Fraaaa is correct. I re-read the quote at the bottom which shows what they compared. They don't say specifically say how they conducted it, but they say the different models and there are two for each of course. The logical answer is that the i5 got a bigger performance boos then the i7, but Apple should have made that chart clearer and also offered another chart showing how much faster the NEW i5 was to the NEW i7. Having a third chart in the diagram would have easily cleared up any confusion when reading it.

 

[theelysium]

Because the iMac Display mode apparently is Thunderbolt-dependent, not backward compatible with DisplayPort-only systems, I wonder if this means you will be able to daisy-chain iMacs? For example, have one iMac in the center as the master; two iMacs (one on either side) each connected via Thunderbolt to the center, acting as two displays. Then, could you slave two more Cinema Displays (or any DisplayPort monitor, even more iMacs!) from those two 'outer' iMacs for a total of five displays? Apple said in the first generation of ThunderBolt systems that they could support two displays per Thunderbolt port with daisy-chaining, and AMD's chips can support up to 6 displays.

You could just use teleport http://www.abyssoft.com/software/teleport/

 

[Vercingetorix]

I use my 2010 27" iMac as a monitor for a PC gaming rig that utilizes the mini-display port and I must say that this will be the last iMac I own until they change this. This was one of main selling points for me since I could still use a pc and not have to suffer with the iMac's poor gaming performance.

No matter how you slice it, the integrated video card with the current iMacs CANNOT drive the resolution these displays use.

The only option is build a high end PC that can push that kinda resolution at decent framerates.

The video cards in these machines will be perfectly adequate for 95 percent of what 95 percent of their potential customers need, and that's what Apple cares about. Why eat into profit margins and complicate the product line when such a tiny segment of the market cares about something?

Now that they have removed the option and restricted it to TB only display ports, we are now forced to "upgrade" to a new mac tho it still cant hold a candle to whats available to system builders today.

I made the switch to Mac years and years ago but I think it's finally run it's course. When this thing takes a **** and they offer me a new one through my Apple Care, I'll sell it and buy a real display an perhaps mac mini.

Apple has fallen so far behind the desktop computing business and its clear they want to funnel their remaining customers through this purchase path.

They haven't fallen behind; they're just not interested in serving the market you're part of. Apple are interested in selling elegant, integrated, simple computers to ordinary people, and ordinary people play games on consoles. The universe of potential customers who care about high-end gaming on personal computers is relatively tiny, so Apple always have and always will ignore it. I'm an occasional gamer myself, so I know it's frustrating, but the simple fact is that if you use a Mac to do most of your day-to-day computer stuff, you're going to have to have a Plan B to do any high-end gaming. The market isn't big enough to make Apple care otherwise.

 

[dr Dunkel]

They haven't fallen behind; they're just not interested in serving the market you're part of. Apple are interested in selling elegant, integrated, simple computers to ordinary people, and ordinary people play games on consoles.

...and we like to hook up our consoles to our monitors... I really hope this deal about the failed Target Mode is some kind of misunderstanding.

 

[Anonymous Freak]

You could just use teleport http://www.abyssoft.com/software/teleport/

Teleport isn't the same. Teleport is a way to CONTROL a second computer, I'm referring to a way to specifically use extra direct-connect monitors.

Not to mention... Why would you want to use the new iMac as a display on an older computer? By the time this iMac is obsolete and ready for re-use as a display, you'll have a newer/faster/better computer to connect it to.

 

[pcbjr]

Why Only 1 Firewire Port

My iMacs have 2 Firewire ports (a 27" and a 24") which I use for TM and a SD clone external. The new iMacs only have one FW port - with 4 USB connections. Seems like a slower way to have to back up, and I see no externals out there that run Thunderbolt.

Am I missing something?

 

[Ravich]

macpro dead in 2 years...my prediction

Why would Apple do that?

 

[RollTide]

Hdd

I can't believe 7200 rpm HD is standard. WOW

 

[Chase R]

...and we like to hook up our consoles to our monitors... I really hope this deal about the failed Target Mode is some kind of misunderstanding.

Yeah... All 13 of you JK.

Don't get me wrong, I'd probably be a little upset if I were you, but this shouldn't come as too much of a surprise; you are a VERY small percentage of the market.

 

[zap2]

...and we like to hook up our consoles to our monitors... I really hope this deal about the failed Target Mode is some kind of misunderstanding.

Yes, this is a stupid limitation Apple has put into place. I hope with adaptors, you'll be able to hook up mini-displayports, HDMI, DVI, and what not.

But Apple has also been weird about its target display mode...putting it only on the 24'' and 27'' model. Its a neat feature, but I doubt I'd grab a 27'' just for that.

It might convince a few people to to for the 27'', but if the 21.5'' had it, that might convince some Mac Mini owners to go for it.

 

[zap2]

Yeah... All 13 of you JK.

Don't get me wrong, I'd probably be a little upset if I were you, but this shouldn't come as too much of a surprise; you are a VERY small percentage of the market.

The amount people who want to use the iMac as a display is a small group?

We're talking consoles, PCs, Macs, phones, tablets, media players, blue-ray players.

I think we'd see a large amount of people like this features, plus it would make the iMac a much more attractive purchase, as it would still be a fine display even after the hardware in it is too old. I know it would most likely make me go for the iMac over the Mac mini(although most likely I'm waiting for the mini before any purchases)

 

[kgtenacious]

So the display input is not backwards compatible? Currently, I use an Atlona AT-HD620 to connect a high def DirecTV hdmi input into my 2010 27" iMac, for watching tv.

I won't be able to do that with the new 2011 27" iMac?

 

[MattInOz]

My iMacs have 2 Firewire ports (a 27" and a 24") which I use for TM and a SD clone external. The new iMacs only have one FW port - with 4 USB connections. Seems like a slower way to have to back up, and I see no externals out there that run Thunderbolt.

Am I missing something?

You can daisy chain the Firewire drives.
I'm assuming you don't run both backups at the same time as both would be competing for the internal drive and would make the whole process much slower what with all the seeking well and internal drive speed being the limiting factor. So if only one device is moving data at a time then the two devices in Daisy Chain shouldn't be noticeably slower than on dedicated ports.

 

[3282868]

Why would Apple do that?

What has Apple done since the iPhone:

1. kill Xserve

2. Drop their dedicated three ACD CCFL LCD lineup that was top notch and replaced with one stripped down iMac LED LCD

3. Ditch "Resolution Independence" (it's been over 4 years, c'mon Apple!)

4. Increased focus on iDevices and iOS (yeah, it's banked them $55+ billion, great, invest a small portion back into the Prosumer market Apple pulled away from with a full display line and a re-vamp of Pro-sumer desktops and apps, they revamped a mobile device market they can do the same with the Prosumer market and make money)

5. Begin merging iOS with OS X Lion

5. Funnel less money into Pro-Apps (Final Cut X is meh)

6. Ditch ZFS+ development from Sun Microsystems to replace HFS+ before it was too late

7. Wreck .Mac w/ MobileMe to market Windows iDevices owners w/ little Windows OS integration (iDisk, iLife, and FUNCTIONAL Office syncing are lacking making MobileMe a rip-off for Windows users)

8. Replace reasonably priced PowerMac G4/5's w/ over priced/over powered Xeon Server based Mac Pro's and no serious revamp in over 8 years. PowerMac's cost anywhere from $1400+, were great for professional photographers/designers/professionals/small businesses, esp. paired w/ the late ACD CCFL line which worked perfectly with OS X.

9. Drop focus on OS X development - iOS Lion is schizophrenic w/ iOS features in OS X: Launchpad, 2D Spaces, Mission Control, lack of TRIM for 3rd party Sandforce SSD's, painful ergonomic implementation of multi-touch w/ the "Magic Trackpad," etc.

10. OpenGL is seriously lagging

11. iLife '11 in 32-bit?!

12. "Pro-sumer" App's such as Aperture "improvements" w/ "Share to Facebook." Keep that consumer shizz in iPhoto and focus on better professional tools Apple.

13. Produce more than one LED LCD and w/ longer than 2' Mini-DisplayPort/USB chords (had to buy Griffen cables to extend both of my 24" LED LCD's to my 2010 Mac Pro at ~$30 each)

15. iWork '11?

16. iOS err, OS X App Store?

17. USB 3.0?

18. Blu-Ray (need I say more)

19. Lack of "daisy chaining" display with Mini-DisplayPort. "ThunderBolt" ports can daisy chain but:

rom Apple:
“The Thunderbolt port will give you plug-and-play performance with a whole new world of Thunderbolt peripherals, as well as with the Apple LED Cinema Display and other Mini DisplayPort peripherals. You can daisy-chain as many as six devices, including your display.”

One BIG problem with this setup – the cable! Apple Cinema Displays have a wonderful 3-pronged cable that carries power, video signal, and usb (to power the usb ports on the back of the display). If you use the cable the way it’s intended, there’s no way to plug anything else into that port.

Currently, the only way to use your display and an additional device at the same time, is to physically position that device within a few inches of the Thunderbolt port on the computer and divert the (short) video cable to that other device – then run a cable from the secondary device to the computer. Am I the only one who thinks that’s just plain stupid?

I think I covered enough

 

[ethana]

Just picked up a 3.4GHz i7 with 8GB of RAM from the Apple Store. I took it home and installed a 256GB SSD to replace the hard drive inside. Installing the OS now. I'll post Geekbench numbers soon.

Ethan

 

[LightSpeed1]

Dual ports should have been on the notebooks as well.

I agree with this completely.

 

[dal20402]

2. Drop their dedicated three ACD CCFL LCD lineup that was top notch and replaced with one stripped down iMac LED LCD

... which is a better display in any way you care to name, except vertical resolution with the 30", than the 23" or 30" ACDs.

3. Ditch "Resolution Independence" (it's been over 4 years, c'mon Apple!)

Just like every other vendor, they realized it was pretty much impossible to implement. Use Windows at 150% mode and you'll see what I mean; *everything* is horribly broken. There will be pixel-doubled Macs within the next year.

4. Increased focus on iDevices and iOS (yeah, it's banked them $55+ billion, great, invest a small portion back into the Prosumer market Apple pulled away from with a full display line and a re-vamp of Pro-sumer desktops and apps, they revamped a mobile device market they can do the same with the Prosumer market and make money)

The prosumer market is tiny. Everyone in the country who is not dirt-poor or a Luddite has a phone. There are a few hundred thousand prosumers at most. You don't make money engineering expensive, cutting-edge products just for that market.

5. Begin merging iOS with OS X Lion

Merging? Some iOS interface features are being added to Lion. They are not "merging." Lion is not losing any capabilities (other than Rosetta).

5. Funnel less money into Pro-Apps (Final Cut X is meh)

You are saying Final Cut X is meh before anyone has even seen it?

8. Replace reasonably priced PowerMac G4/5's w/ over priced/over powered Xeon Server based Mac Pro's and no serious revamp in over 8 years. PowerMac's cost anywhere from $1400+, were great for professional photographers/designers/professionals/small businesses, esp. paired w/ the late ACD CCFL line which worked perfectly with OS X.

There is no margin whatsoever in commodity desktop hardware; it's THE most price-sensitive part of the PC market. Apple doesn't do things where it can't generate high margins. It's not a charity, it's a business.

9. Drop focus on OS X development - iOS Lion is schizophrenic w/ iOS features in OS X: Launchpad, 2D Spaces, Mission Control, lack of TRIM for 3rd party Sandforce SSD's, painful ergonomic implementation of multi-touch w/ the "Magic Trackpad," etc.

What capabilities are missing from Lion as a result of iOS interface influence?

How is the Magic Trackpad "painful?" Mine is my favorite input device ever by a huge margin. My only problem with it is that Apple took about 3 years too long to release it. What would you do to make it not "painful?"

11. iLife '11 in 32-bit?!

What benefits would 64-bit provide to the user, other than a very small performance improvement? iLife applications' GUI threads are not using more than 4 GB of RAM.

12. "Pro-sumer" App's such as Aperture "improvements" w/ "Share to Facebook." Keep that consumer shizz in iPhoto and focus on better professional tools Apple.

Are you in favor of the prosumer, or the elitist "pro" who thinks their app is debased by a consumer feature? Prosumers use Facebook and (especially) Flickr. Since Apple already built the feature for iPhoto, it costs them nothing to throw it into Aperture.

16. iOS err, OS X App Store?

How is easier app installation hurting you?

17. USB 3.0?

Thunderbolt.

 

[hayesk]

No matte antiglare screens on the new iMacs. If you need matte screens, there's something you can do - add your voice to 1,300+ petitions at http://macmatte.wordpress.com Unlike personal emails to Apple - which Apple just ignore, asserting everyone loves glossy screens - make it count by adding to the online petition where your voice will remain visible on the net until Apple listens. Remember, adding your comment to transient news articles on the net is fine, but those articles go out of date in a few weeks, and also there is no long-term accumulation and consolidation of numbers, like there is at a petition site.

I've seen you post this same post on every Mac site I've visited today. Here's the problem - those of us who read Mac sites are a tiny minority. Those of us who read the comments on Mac sites are an even tinier minority. We don't represent the vast majority of iMac customers. This petition, while I agree with your preference as I type this on a matte screen MBP, is not going to do anything. Apple won't read it, and even if they do, will not follow it. But good luck.

 

[hayesk]

My iMacs have 2 Firewire ports (a 27" and a 24") which I use for TM and a SD clone external. The new iMacs only have one FW port - with 4 USB connections. Seems like a slower way to have to back up, and I see no externals out there that run Thunderbolt.

Am I missing something?

I'm missing why you would waste money on FW or TB for backups. Why do you need top performance for simply backups. Save yourself some money and get a cheap USB drive for backups. I just bought a 3TB USB driver at Best Buy for $170 CDN - it's just as safe as a firewire drive, and I don't need the speed - it's not like I'm capturing video or running software off of it.

 

[hoonu]

The amount people who want to use the iMac as a display is a small group?

We're talking consoles, PCs, Macs, phones, tablets, media players, blue-ray players.

I think we'd see a large amount of people like this features, plus it would make the iMac a much more attractive purchase, as it would still be a fine display even after the hardware in it is too old. I know it would most likely make me go for the iMac over the Mac mini(although most likely I'm waiting for the mini before any purchases)

My point exactly. My iMac is already behind my i7 2600k build and cannot shake a stick to it when it comes to everyday computing and hardcore rendering. However... I guess I'm going to be in the market for a new monitor once this thing dies. Sadly the new iMac wont be on my list.

What's frustrating is that if and when this iMac dies (my 24" died when they tried to repair a ghosting issue), they will give me the latest and greatest which is nothing more than a slightly faster CPU and GPU with the biggest feature missing.

I could give 2 ***** about TB connectivity since hardly any hardware exists for it ATM.

Like I said... when the day comes and my iMac takes a ****, my replacement is going to eBay and will be my last Mac until they can target more than just the "pretty computer demographic".

 

[hayesk]

I agree with this completely.

And where on the MBP logic board would you like to place the second video card?

 

[hayesk]

I think I covered enough

What you've covered is a mishmash of things that Apple did and tried to infer it was because of the iPhone. When in reality, not much except the bringing of some iOS features back into MacOS X (which I agree with even if I won't use them all) has anything to do with the iPhone.

 

[ethana]

Just picked up a 3.4GHz i7 with 8GB of RAM from the Apple Store. I took it home and installed a 256GB SSD to replace the hard drive inside. Installing the OS now. I'll post Geekbench numbers soon.

Ethan

Just ran this. My score was 11810.

 

[miazma]

what I'm waiting for now:

apple cinema display with thunderbolt port and ability to plug mouse/keyboard and use it as an extension for macbooks with thunderbolt.

that would be something like a great docking station. just plug it in and go for it.