2011 iMac Notes: Magic Trackpad Option, Display Connectivity, Boot Camp Update

[sennekuyl]

The whole point of Thunderbolt is you can daisy-chain devices (up to 6 I think), so one port goes a long way.

Besides the three-monitor doohickery on the 27", I struggle to see why 95% of people would need two ports often. But still, nice to have

The current implementation of TB requires that the Display be the last device in the chain. Ars Technica forums have a rumour it shall change (in the next version)

 

[SeattleMoose]

Thunderbolt Party - Guests "Not Here Yet"

Talk about "bleeding edge"....lots of complaints about video adapters not working on the Apple forums and almost nobody makes a monitor/TV with Thunderbolt I/O....yet.

Maybe there is a "tsunami" of thunderbolt devices coming....but right now the cupboard is pretty bare.

I'll wait until the "guests show up to Apple's Thunderbolt Party".....before showing up with my $$$.

 

[jwdsail]

I'm thinking of a 3-monitor gaming/sim setup. No desk - think cockpit.

iRacing with Bootcamp and x-plane should be amazing w/ this set-up ;-)

Oh, yeah, and FCP and Aperture of course... This will be for work.. honest!

 

[deconstruct60]

My iMacs have 2 Firewire ports (a 27" and a 24") which I use for TM and a SD clone external. The new iMacs only have one FW port - with 4 USB connections. Seems like a slower way to have to back up, and I see no externals out there that run Thunderbolt.

Am I missing something?

On the 27" models you can look at it this way. They took away a FW800 port and gave you a Thunderbolt (TB) port. That is a net increase in bandwidth; not a backward slide. The expectation would be to use TB if have some large, time critical backup to do.

If the external drive is always connected then on the 21" model would daisy chain any external display off the back of the external drive.

Or as other poster pointed out, just daisy chain the FW. The two FW800 ports were not independent anyway so not particularly any slower to daisy chain.

Eventually, there probably will be a TB to FW adapter sold. In that case those would be two independent FW channels.

 

[ssdeg7]

I would choose a Trackpad over a Mouse

 

[koobcamuk]

Looks pretty sweet. When I return to the UK I will probably pick up one of these. Mac Pro, though nice, is just overkill.

Personally I'm a huge fan of daisy chaining. Less devices, less cables, less clutter. You just attach each device to the next.

What is it you have an aversion to?

Fewer.

 

[MattInOz]

I think I covered enough

Dude.... the glass is half full because it's a very nice red and it needs room to breath. Don't worry there is plenty more in the bottle.

 

[Atlantico]

macpro dead in 2 years...my prediction

Probably yes, Apple has been making Mac Pro upgrades less and less frequently, so I guess it will just be a self fulfilling prophecy.

On topic, I guess I would choose the trackpad, but just because I never use Apple mice anyway (I have a fine Logitech) so for curiosity's sake, I'd take the trackpad.

Would I use it? Nope. That's what the Logitech is for.

 

[jouster]

iRacing with Bootcamp and x-plane should be amazing w/ this set-up ;-)

And Trackir...

 

[Yeldarb31]

Where's the 16 Ram?

Apple suggests that all of the new iMacs are expandable to 16GB ram, but 16GB ram isn't even an option for the 21" iMacs through their online store. Are the 21" iMacs only upgradeable to 8GB? Or has Apple given up on up-selling maxed out ram on the lower, cheaper models bought by "cheap" customers?

 

[3282868]

... which is a better display in any way you care to name, except vertical resolution with the 30", than the 23" or 30" ACDs.

Just like every other vendor, they realized it was pretty much impossible to implement. Use Windows at 150% mode and you'll see what I mean; *everything* is horribly broken. There will be pixel-doubled Macs within the next year.

The prosumer market is tiny. Everyone in the country who is not dirt-poor or a Luddite has a phone. There are a few hundred thousand prosumers at most. You don't make money engineering expensive, cutting-edge products just for that market.

Merging? Some iOS interface features are being added to Lion. They are not "merging." Lion is not losing any capabilities (other than Rosetta).

You are saying Final Cut X is meh before anyone has even seen it? :

MY FRIEND JACKEE WHO WORKS ON THE DESIGN TEAM

There is no margin whatsoever in commodity desktop hardware; it's THE most price-sensitive part of the PC market. Apple doesn't do things where it can't generate high margins. It's not a charity, it's a business.

What capabilities are missing from Lion as a result of iOS interface influence?

How is the Magic Trackpad "painful?" Mine is my favorite input device ever by a huge margin. My only problem with it is that Apple took about 3 years too long to release it. What would you do to make it not "painful?"

WORKING 12 HOUR DAYS WITH A TRACKPAD TAKES A TOLL ON YOUR WRISTS AS IT IS CURRENTLY DESIGNED

What benefits would 64-bit provide to the user, other than a very small performance improvement? iLife applications' GUI threads are not using more than 4 GB of RAM.

Are you in favor of the prosumer, or the elitist "pro" who thinks their app is debased by a consumer feature? Prosumers use Facebook and (especially) Flickr. Since Apple already built the feature for iPhoto, it costs them nothing to throw it into Aperture.

How is easier app installation hurting you?

explain this one

Thunderbolt.

I have valid points, you have valid points. A lot of people agree with mine and a lot do not. I have been using Mac systems since the 90's for work, so my needs are different than yours or the general consumer. However, those who make a professional living off Mac systems (mostly in design) agree on my points. I also refuse to contribute to the silly back and forth endless squabbles that inevitably become personal on MacRumors. I've done it so many times and it's painful and stubborn and gets no where, and just wastes everyone's time.

Sorry to have upset you so much and thanks for the thoughtful commentary. I'm off to bed.

Have a good night

 

[shaolindave]

Blu-Ray

still no blu-ray drive? iMacs should have blu-ray burners by now!
oh well, maybe with the next update...

 

[dr Dunkel]

The amount people who want to use the iMac as a display is a small group?

We're talking consoles, PCs, Macs, phones, tablets, media players, blue-ray players.

I think we'd see a large amount of people like this features, plus it would make the iMac a much more attractive purchase, as it would still be a fine display even after the hardware in it is too old. I know it would most likely make me go for the iMac over the Mac mini(although most likely I'm waiting for the mini before any purchases)

I can't see how those of us wanting to hook things up to our 27" iMac could be a that small group. I'm more inclined to believe this limitation has to do with Apple protectionism. I mean, like I said in a post a few pages up, there are no industry standard input ports (HDMI/DVI...) and the TB port is limited to only a small fraction of a ppm of the input devices on the market.

Sure hoping for a way to work arond Apple on this one, without going the usual Apple route - with a gazillion adapters.

 

[caspersoong]

I wonder why it takes so much space to house all the iMac hardware... And why the screen has to be so large to fit better processors, etc and the additional ThunderBolt Port.

 

[aussie_geek]

Bit of a bummer regarding the target display mode. I use my iMac as a target display with my gaming pc. So anyone with a PC box would have to fork out $$$ for a thunderbolt graphics card....

Are there any thunderbolt gfx cards for PC yet?

 

[macadam212]

Apple's mini displayport didn't last long, or is is Thunderbolt compatible with it?

 

[Ravich]

What has Apple done since the iPhone:

1. kill Xserve

2. Drop their dedicated three ACD CCFL LCD lineup that was top notch and replaced with one stripped down iMac LED LCD

3. Ditch "Resolution Independence" (it's been over 4 years, c'mon Apple!)

4. Increased focus on iDevices and iOS (yeah, it's banked them $55+ billion, great, invest a small portion back into the Prosumer market Apple pulled away from with a full display line and a re-vamp of Pro-sumer desktops and apps, they revamped a mobile device market they can do the same with the Prosumer market and make money)

5. Begin merging iOS with OS X Lion

5. Funnel less money into Pro-Apps (Final Cut X is meh)

6. Ditch ZFS+ development from Sun Microsystems to replace HFS+ before it was too late

7. Wreck .Mac w/ MobileMe to market Windows iDevices owners w/ little Windows OS integration (iDisk, iLife, and FUNCTIONAL Office syncing are lacking making MobileMe a rip-off for Windows users)

8. Replace reasonably priced PowerMac G4/5's w/ over priced/over powered Xeon Server based Mac Pro's and no serious revamp in over 8 years. PowerMac's cost anywhere from $1400+, were great for professional photographers/designers/professionals/small businesses, esp. paired w/ the late ACD CCFL line which worked perfectly with OS X.

9. Drop focus on OS X development - iOS Lion is schizophrenic w/ iOS features in OS X: Launchpad, 2D Spaces, Mission Control, lack of TRIM for 3rd party Sandforce SSD's, painful ergonomic implementation of multi-touch w/ the "Magic Trackpad," etc.

10. OpenGL is seriously lagging

11. iLife '11 in 32-bit?!

12. "Pro-sumer" App's such as Aperture "improvements" w/ "Share to Facebook." Keep that consumer shizz in iPhoto and focus on better professional tools Apple.

13. Produce more than one LED LCD and w/ longer than 2' Mini-DisplayPort/USB chords (had to buy Griffen cables to extend both of my 24" LED LCD's to my 2010 Mac Pro at ~$30 each)

15. iWork '11?

16. iOS err, OS X App Store?

17. USB 3.0?

18. Blu-Ray (need I say more)

19. Lack of "daisy chaining" display with Mini-DisplayPort. "ThunderBolt" ports can daisy chain but:



I think I covered enough

u mad bro?


Seriously though. Most of that is just you being angry at apple. It has nothing to do with the Mac Pro. At all. Not including a blu-ray drive is a FAR bigger nuisance to consumers than it is to professional users, yet you list it because, what? You're angry?


Apple has no reason to discontinue the Mac Pro.

 

[aussie_geek]

I can't see how those of us wanting to hook things up to our 27" iMac could be a that small group. I'm more inclined to believe this limitation has to do with Apple protectionism. I mean, like I said in a post a few pages up, there are no industry standard input ports (HDMI/DVI...) and the TB port is limited to only a small fraction of a ppm of the input devices on the market.

Sure hoping for a way to work arond Apple on this one, without going the usual Apple route - with a gazillion adapters.

Yep- I agree. There should always be one legacy port on a device. Mini display port would be the one.

 

[bpaluzzi]

Talk about "bleeding edge"....lots of complaints about video adapters not working on the Apple forums and almost nobody makes a monitor/TV with Thunderbolt I/O....yet.

Maybe there is a "tsunami" of thunderbolt devices coming....but right now the cupboard is pretty bare.

I'll wait until the "guests show up to Apple's Thunderbolt Party".....before showing up with my $$$.

How can people not understand this? You need to build the computers with the ports before the peripherals. Immediately after Apple released the MBP with Thunderbolt, the peripherals were being announced.

Did you really think the peripheral companies would line up to build stuff that can't be used on any computers?

This isn't a "chicken/egg" problem at all. It could only ever work in one direction: computer first, then peripheral.

Why? Because the computer still works, even if you don't have anything to plug into the new port.

How is anyone surprised by this?

 

[exFictitiouZ]

I'd seen that. Confused, also...

The reason why i7 seems slower than i5, and 6970M seems slower than 6750M is because they have different baselines. They compared SB i5 2.7GHz (I believe it's i5-2500S) to the previous gen i3 3.2GHz (i3-550), and compared SB i7 3.4GHz (i7-2600) to previous gen i7 2.93 (i7-870).

For the graphics, they compared Radeon 6750M to 4670, and 6970M to 5750. No wonder why 6750M shows a greater performance increase.

This information can be found at the footnote

 

[grahamnp]

I just realised that the 6750 and 6770 only have 512MB of RAM compared to the 1GB of the 6750 in the MBP. The iMac is also using a mobile version of the card so the difference is even stranger given that the iMac has a lot more pixels and therefore more need of the extra VRAM.

 

[MartiNZ]

I think it serves the same (cynical) purpose in both cases - it makes one go for the top-end as the lower ones seem so gimped by comparison. I only just realised the 15" MBP starts at only 256MB discrete GPU. Mine from early 2008 has 512MB, why has the increase been so slow?

Of course mine from early 2008 also has a known faulty GPU that is still warranty covered for the logic board for another year ... but that's another story.

 

[manu chao]

I'm missing why you would waste money on FW or TB for backups. Why do you need top performance for simply backups. Save yourself some money and get a cheap USB drive for backups. I just bought a 3TB USB driver at Best Buy for $170 CDN - it's just as safe as a firewire drive, and I don't need the speed - it's not like I'm capturing video or running software off of it.

a) When you need to restore any significant amount of data (let alone a complete disk), USB can get old pretty fast.
b) Any backup of a life system suffers from not being perfectly consistent (as the backed-up system changes during the backup), the faster the backup, the smaller the inconsistencies.
c) If you keep your clones offline, you'll always have to wait and watch when updating them before you can take them offline again (in particular if you always do two backups back-to-back to minimise inconsistencies)

Of course, if you value cheap over best, go for USB.

 

[AidenShaw]

not with a well-designed backup system

b) Any backup of a live system suffers from not being perfectly consistent (as the backed-up system changes during the backup), the faster the backup, the smaller the inconsistencies.

Only poorly designed backup systems have this problem - the majority of systems around can make a consistent point-in-time backup of a live system.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volume_Snapshot_Service for a description of the most popular solution to the live backup problem.

 

[Jilted John]

New 21 or old 27?

Just pulled the trigger on a new base 21 (500GB/TB/MTP)... then spotted the last-gen base 27 on sale on the refurb page for a similar price (1TB/Mini Display Port/MM). I was happy enough with the 21, but now I'm getting buyers remorse. Processor aside, the old base 27 looks the equal of, or superior to, the new base 21.

Is having the new processor and TB worth more than the bigger HD and screen? Any thoughts?