2012 Macbook Pro Redesign

[zewazir]

A lot of people still have use for the increased capability of wired ethernet. A lot of people still have need of an optical drive. Removing these features in favor of thinner and lighter, under the theory "well, those people can add a dongle and/or and external drive" is forgetting the PURPOSE of going thinner and lighter is, supposedly, to increase portability. But then we have to carry extra parts to make up for the removal of functionality, that pretty much completely defeats the purpose of making the things more portable.

Think about it under two possible scenarios, one in which the current MBP configuration is kept, but with better/faster processors and components, or the alternative, where the optical drive and gigabit ethernet are removed to make it lighter and thinner.

On the one hand, there are what is likely the majority of users who do not need gigabit ethernet or an optical drive. Fine. If ultra-light portability is the primary concern, there is a perfect match for these people in the form of the MacBook Air. OR, if they need the computing power of the Pro they might have to (GASP!) put up with a slightly thicker model with an additional 4 ounces "wasted" on an optical drive. But in the end, a fully functional Pro with gigabit ethernet and an optical drive is not going to be significantly less portable than one missing those features.

Conversely, those who DO need and use the added functionality of gigabit ethernet and/or optical drive are being told "Hey, if you need those things, you don't need portability. Carry extras." What sense does that make? Carrying extras is a LOT less portable than carrying the extra weight of a thicker Pro with built in gigabit ethernet and optical drive.

Apple spent a lot of time, effort, and money developing a line of computers that moved them away from the "toy computer" image hung on them in the late 90s. Now, it seems they want to move back into that role - only this time the label will be deserved.

Some people NEED the power of a full-blown pro-level machine, which includes both desk tops and portables. And some people simply WANT the power of a full-blown pro-level machine, which includes both desktops and portables. Has Apple decided to abandon those who need and/or want fully capable portable Macs in favor of the "cool factor" of super-light portability? I certainly hope not, when the compromise is simply a SLIGHTLY less portable Pro design that will, in the end, satisfy both hard core and more casual type users.

 

[d00d]

I didn't miss the point.

Sure you did. The point of the laptop, aesthetics aside, was that you can fit an ethernet port on a thin laptop.

People have been whining about the lack of ethernet ever since the mock-up showed up. Completely ignoring the fact that we're about to get the most innovative laptop in years, but that's no big deal.

They ignore that because it's beside the point.

Also by definition, ahead of the curve IS innovation. It is promoting something new as opposed to something established.

Promoting something new? I suppose you're assuming 802.11ac is being introduced.

USB 3.0 doesn't use up the same amount of CPU as 2.0

I'd love to see an article on that. A quick Google wasn't yielding much on DMA support for USB 3.

And for clarifications sake the next generation of wireless (ac) is FASTER than gigabit ethernet.

I yield this point to you. Its theoretical max in very specific configurations is faster. We don't need to argue the practical speed until it can actually be tested.

So far, no one has a valid argument for ethernet's removal. They simply don't want to have a dongle. That's an extremely weak argument.

Counterpoint: no one has made a valid argument regarding the necessity of ethernet's removal. They think it would be impossible to fit such a port on such a thin laptop. That's an extremely weak argument.

 

[Stetrain]

The thing is that most people need those things, optical drives and gigabit ethernet, at their desk. Why include them in the machine to be carried around all the time when most people don't need them most of the time?


I think that with the removal of the ODD we'll see a big jump in battery life. Closer to 10 hours on the integrated GPU. That's a trade-off I'd be happy to see.


Some of the equipment I work on out in the field requires a serial port, and sometimes I have to pull old information off of floppy disks. Those two things are essential to certain tasks I have to perform.

I gave up long ago trying to find laptops with serial ports and floppy drives built in. I much prefer having a lighter, faster, more modern laptop, and I can simply plug in a USB to serial adapter and/or USB floppy drive when I need them.


If there are some 5% or 10% of current customers who will be absolutely appalled and outraged by a laptop with no ethernet and no ODD, and refuse to carry dongles or external drives in their bags, I don't think Apple cares if they buy something else.

 

[aceracer]

Can anyone clarify if both the 15-inch and 13-inch are going to be updated? Sorry, if this is a dumb question but all of the news sources cite a 15-inch model.

 

[Stetrain]

Can anyone clarify if both the 15-inch and 13-inch are going to be updated? Sorry, if this is a dumb question but all of the news sources cite a 15-inch model.

Some of the rumors from a few months ago talked about 13" and 15" models, but everything I've read over the past few days only mentions the 15". Guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

[6-0 Prolene]

As I often need ethernet and ODD on the road and like to minimize dongles and external drives, I think my buying decision might be made. I'm not really seeing much benefit to the new design at this point.

 

[Stetrain]

As I often need ethernet and ODD on the road and like to minimize dongles and external drives, I think my buying decision might be made. I'm not really seeing much benefit to the new design at this point.

If you still really want a Mac you can get a pretty good deal on a refurbished 2011 model, possibly an even better deal once the new models come out.

 

[aceracer]

Some of the rumors from a few months ago talked about 13" and 15" models, but everything I've read over the past few days only mentions the 15". Guess we'll have to wait and see.

One user thinks Apple won't make a 13-inch MBP anymore essentially forcing would be buyers into a 13-inch Air. With the 13-inch MBP being Apple's best selling computer, I think far more likely is the 15-inch gets released first, to squeeze out some extra dough from the earlier adopters. Then mid to late summer, i.e. back-to-school season, we get the release of the new 13-inch MBP.

 

[6-0 Prolene]

If you still really want a Mac you can get a pretty good deal on a refurbished 2011 model, possibly an even better deal once the new models come out.

Yeah, I'm looking into that. Curiosity might keep me from buying till the new ones are announced since I'm hitting the road again on July 1, but we'll see.

 

[cmChimera]

Sure you did. The point of the laptop, aesthetics aside, was that you can fit an ethernet port on a thin laptop.

Which was obvious. I didn't miss the point, but the point was the same tired argument that people have been whining about since 9to5mac's mock-up. It makes little difference if the laptop can be thinner with the ethernet port still attached, if 1. It limit's Apple's options in things they want to accomplish (Yes this is broad. It is intended to be so.) 2. It makes them make an aesthetic choice which clashes with their design process. The fact of the matter is, Apple feels that the port isn't necessary. I agree.

They ignore that because it's beside the point.

It's not though. You lose an ethernet port and you gain other advantages. Is ethernet really better than everything else that will be in the new Pro?

Promoting something new? I suppose you're assuming 802.11ac is being introduced.

Actually no. That's hope but not an assumption. I'm simply saying that removing the port in order to achieve whatever design and features that are finally released is innovative.

I'd love to see an article on that. A quick Google wasn't yielding much on DMA support for USB 3.

Quote:

n many ways, USB 3.0 is more similar to FireWire, one of the industry's most popular digital interfaces. Like FireWire, USB delivers both power and data over a single cable. The improved 4.5 W of power delivery (to increase to 7.5 W in future) is well-suited for many of the high data rate image sensors available today, and USB 3.0 screw-locking connectors and high-flex chain cables are under development. USB 3.0 also supports direct memory access (DMA), which allows data to be read from / written to main memory without going through the CPU. Asynchronous signaling replaces the polling mechanism used by USB 2.0, which further minimizes processor usage.

Link:http://www.ptgrey.com/news/usb3.asp

Counterpoint: no one has made a valid argument regarding the necessity of ethernet's removal. They think it would be impossible to fit such a port on such a thin laptop. That's an extremely weak argument.

I never cared if it was necessary or not. Apple could feasibly make a laptop with all sorts of ports on the current Macbook Pro design. Apple has chosen not to, and thinks removing the port is in the best interest of the computer, the Mac line, and their business. Considering that I find the port largely useless, and that Apple seems to making all the right decisions with their products, I'll go ahead and give them the benefit of the doubt. I want a thinner, lighter, and more powerful laptop. If Apple decides the best way to accomplish this is by removing a port I and the majority of their users never use, then by all means remove it.

 

[Stetrain]

One user thinks Apple won't make a 13-inch MBP anymore essentially forcing would be buyers into a 13-inch Air. With the 13-inch MBP being Apple's best selling computer, I think far more likely is the 15-inch gets released first, to squeeze out some extra dough from the earlier adopters. Then mid to late summer, i.e. back-to-school season, we get the release of the new 13-inch MBP.

I guess it depends on whether they can really differentiate the 13" MBP from the Air. If it's going to cost about the same and have the same lack of optical drive and ethernet, the only things it might have going for it are a bit faster processor, larger storage space if there's a normal HDD, and maybe better battery life.

If they can squeeze a dedicated GPU into a 13" MBP I think it will be a worthwhile product.

 

[ivanpk]

Late 2008 unibody macbook has finally croaked... need a new one desperately. Now it's either get a new Macbook Pro or wait a little to see if the new ones get released... and if they don't release a 13" then they'll be no point in waiting...GRR!

 

[Tibits]

A lot of people still have need of an optical drive.

A few yes. A lot...no.

 

[diannao]

One user thinks Apple won't make a 13-inch MBP anymore essentially forcing would be buyers into a 13-inch Air. With the 13-inch MBP being Apple's best selling computer, I think far more likely is the 15-inch gets released first, to squeeze out some extra dough from the earlier adopters. Then mid to late summer, i.e. back-to-school season, we get the release of the new 13-inch MBP.

I think it's likely the two 13" models will converge to one, as Apple doesn't want regular consumers confused over which one to buy, which they will be if both models could be called thin, both lack an OOD, etc. etc. Economies of scale should help drop the price of the single 13" model.

If I had to guess, I would say Apple likes the "Air" name better than "Pro". Perhaps to avoid having a new Air thicker than the previous model, there will be an updated 13" Air which will have an 8GB RAM option instead of Apple releasing a 13" Pro.

Just my guesses.

 

[PVisitors]

No way in hell Apple will merge the lines and just have one laptop range. If we go off the 9to5 rumour the design isn't tapered and still thicker than the Air, hardly 'merger' material'.

The 13" Macbook Pro is Apple's biggest hit. Scroll back to a previous post by macrumors, it vastly outsells their other laptops; it would be illogical to scrap it.

Having a 2.x processor instead of a 1.x is enough to distinguish it from the average consumer (people still think clock speeds are relevant). All it would take is Apple to put a dGPU in the 13" Pro and it will be a different ballpark.

 

[rev.b]

1. Not necessariliy. The iPad has a quad-core graphics processor that may drain the battery. Ivy Bridge has integrated graphics that support retina resolutions, so it should handle battery consumption better.

2. Yes, it will add lots of detail. Fonts look a little blurry on the screen of current Macs due to que sub-pixel rendering technology used by Apple (Quartz). You should have noticed that fonts look much sharper on Windows due to ClearType sub-pixel rendering (although fonts look distorted too and not exactly as they appear on a printed page). A retina display would make fonts look sharp on a Mac screen using Quartz.

As for desktop space, tale a deeper look at 9to5Mac. It says that the user will be able to choose if it wants a larger or smaller desktop using retina resolution.

3. Standard resolution games should run fine on retina displays as they do on retina iPads.

1. iPad 3 major battery drain is caused by the retina display, which requires a much more powerful backlight. Not by the quad-core graphics - it may have its share, but retina display is the major culprit. Same problem could arise in retina MBP - they don't have that much space to expand battery size as they did with iPad 3.

2. So, fonts look sharper in windows (and in linux, BTW), and Apple solution is to drive an insanely high resolution LCD pannel, instead of improving subpixel rendering method, which is purely software related? That makes sense to me.

3. No, they don't. I have a iPad 3, had the original, and 1024x756 games looked better on the iPad 1. Desktop and apps aware of retina display, of course, look just great.

 

[Stetrain]

1. iPad 3 major battery drain is caused by the retina display, which requires a much more powerful backlight. Not by the quad-core graphics - it may have its share, but retina display is the major culprit. Same problem could arise in retina MBP - they don't have that much space to expand battery size as they did with iPad 3.

Unless they use the new Sharp IGZO displays which claim to allow high pixel densities without larger backlights.

 

[d00d]

It's not though. You lose an ethernet port and you gain other advantages. Is ethernet really better than everything else that will be in the new Pro?

They're saying that the removal of the ethernet port is a negative thing, a point that stands regardless of everything that isn't in direct conflict. To put it more clearly, the only new feature that appears to conflict with including an ethernet port is the thickness of the device itself. The new display, new graphics card, ivy bridge, etc. don't prevent ethernet. Therefore the value proposition is between the form factor and that functionality. When it comes to practical buying decisions, one does have to weigh the whole package and make the choice. However, until it's released, individual features are going to be discussed because it's still not a whole package for sale. Even then, there's nothing wrong with being upset with the loss of a feature.

Actually no. That's hope but not an assumption. I'm simply saying that removing the port in order to achieve whatever design and features that are finally released is innovative.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

Quote: Link:http://www.ptgrey.com/news/usb3.asp

Educational, thank you. That would be a fine solution then. The current one is not.

I never cared if it was necessary or not. Apple could feasibly make a laptop with all sorts of ports on the current Macbook Pro design. Apple has chosen not to, and thinks removing the port is in the best interest of the computer, the Mac line, and their business. Considering that I find the port largely useless, and that Apple seems to making all the right decisions with their products, I'll go ahead and give them the benefit of the doubt. I want a thinner, lighter, and more powerful laptop. If Apple decides the best way to accomplish this is by removing a port I and the majority of their users never use, then by all means remove it.

I still don't see the business or technical case for removing it. I'm not being a troll; I just don't accept their decisions on faith, opting instead to weigh each decision individually. Note that I'm not objecting to the removal of the ODD as there seems to be a strong case for its weight, power consumption, and size being a measurable detriment to the desires and needs of users. I don't see an equal value proposition when it comes to the ethernet port. The amount gained doesn't seem to outweigh the loss (disagreeing on this point is mostly subjective, so one of those agree to disagree things).

 

[jjhoekstra]

What about SSD size? I really hope that a 1 Tb SSD BTO will be available. I would buy it, no matter what the price.

 

[zewazir]

A few yes. A lot...no.

Even a low percentage of Mac users is a lot of people.

They've already dropped XServe, rumors place a high probability that they may drop the Pro tower, and now it looks like they're all but removing any distinction between the Air and Pro series portables.

If Apple wants to become a toy company, that's their choice. But don't expect those of us who actually use higher end features of their computers to cheer the move.

 

[neilpryde23]

In regards to Sharp's IGZO displays I have a curious question. Does anyone know of other laptop companies that use a 16:10 aspect ratio like apple's laptops?

I was just looking at the Sample Spec on Sharp's website and while the display says 10 inches, the resolution happens to have an aspect ratio of 16:10 like apple's laptops even though most laptops are 16:9 and it also just happens to be twice the 13" MBP's resolution. I don't know if other people have talked about this back when the IGZO rumor was on macrumors like a month ago, I just thought it was interesting.

13" MBP with 2560x1600 resolution plus the rumored resolution independence? That'd be pretty sweet

Wait, wait, I just had a thought.
What if all the different color and size squares of the WWDC invitation was supposed to mean retina displays based on the colors (as many have already speculated) AND Resolution Independence based on the different sized squares???

I could be reading into this wayyyyyy too much and be completely off base but this thought just came to me so I thought I would share.

I also found this online just searching "Apple resolution independence" and while it is old (from like 2006), it was updated last year, May 26, 2011, for Lion 10.7 which these new MBP's will most likely ship with (10.7.4).

https://developer.apple.com/library.../HiDPIOverview/Introduction/Introduction.html

The very first thing says

This document describes resolution independence in Mac OS X and explains how to start updating applications to support high-resolution displays.

so it indicates that Apple has been, for a while, encouraging devs to prepare to support resolution independence once High-Resolution displays are implemented, which seems to be soon. Additionally, the 9to5mac article also claims that resolution independence is coming based on Lion 10.7.4's added features.

I apologize in advance if my crazy theory leads those who believe in it to be disappointed if this does not happen and am prepared for the down votes lol. Also, any thoughts to support or debunk this theory are appreciated.

 

[StuLax18]

Less than $100 extra for retina display? Seems pretty good to me. Hopefully Apple will not even upcharge it that much.

 

[Callumbear845]

Less than $100 extra for retina display? Seems pretty good to me. Hopefully Apple will not even upcharge it that much.

Apple already charges $100 for the high res 15" display, so hopefully that won't change, only become retina instead of HiRes.

 

[kot]

Oh, thank god I have a 2011 MBP, the last one to deserve the "pro" in its name.

Removing an absolutely essential feature (wired network connectivity) from a PRO machine is like removing VLAN functionality from an enterprise-level switch and still calling it an enterprise-level switch.

Why not just drop the Pro line altogether and leave just the Air. They are not in any way different now, are they?

Hating the move, it seems like my days with Apple are counted. I can't work on a laptop which lacks network connectivity. This is just stupid.

 

[NutsNGum]

I can't work on a laptop which lacks network connectivity. This is just stupid.

But it won't, you likely have the next generation of wireless tech, and if you want ethernet, a $20 USB-Ethernet adaptor isn't a massive inconvenience.