2012 Macbook Pro Redesign

[Spetsnazos]

The new Rumors about the MBP is the reason why Apple is going downhill without Steve, and not up.

Innovation is not removing ports, ODD and making the case slimmer. Anyone can do that...that takes no intelligence, skill or ability.

Real innovation would be to remove the ODD, increase battery size, increase memory+HDD space WHILE keeping cpu temps low and the laptop running cool.

ANYONE can slap together components in a small case and call it a day. It's even easier by not including half the components(dedicated grfx cards).

Apple thinking of removing ethernet+FW...Good luck in your bankruptcy goals of 2014

 

[kot]

But it won't, you likely have the next generation of wireless tech, and if you want ethernet, a $20 USB-Ethernet adaptor isn't a massive inconvenience.

We don't use wireless, we are not a coffee shop, we operate and maintain enterprise-level equipment and I'm required to have ethernet connectivity. Wireless is simply not used for real work. Period. This is the reason I went with Pro. How am I supposed to look at a laptop which Apple tells me is built for professionals when I can't even do networking with it?

And for the dongle, look, why keep the wireless adapter? You can buy a usb dongle, they are everywhere. Just brilliant.

 

[Stetrain]

I think that there's a pretty decent possibility that we might see SSD-only storage. It'll be a bit cramped for the first year or two but I can see Apple going this way.

There could be room for two of the blade style SSDs. Storage options could be 256GB, 512GB, and 1TB(2x512GB).

If you look at the internals of the current 15" MBP, by getting rid of the ODD and HDD, it would make a ton of room for a larger battery, even while keeping the high power CPU and dedicated GPU.

If they use the IGZO displays which allow for higher resolution without a higher power backlight, we might see 12+ hours of battery life. That would be a big selling point over the Air.

 

[nanxyyyyyyyy]

Why there are no leaks???? Why?? lol

 

[CountSessine]

Most MBP's don't really have enough USB (assuming the dongle is USB) ports to plug ethernet in with a dongle. I already use all 3 ports on my machine, and have the ethernet plugged into the ethernet jack. Do you think they'll add more USB ports if they ditch the ethernet port?

I'm not sure how you use your laptop - typically I carry it around and use it on wifi or 3G tethering in coffee shops and airports, and then I have 1 or 2 places where I put it down and use it like a desktop machine. At those 2 places I have external monitors, my mouse (which I carry with me), and ethernet networks. If the new mbp really doesn't come with an ethernet port, I'm just going to buy 2 USB3 or TB adapters and leave them where I use ethernet. If it's USB, you could buy a cheap hub to avoid losing USB ports.

I guess my point is that if your computer use is anything like mine is (a bit of an assumption on my part), most of the places that you'd go where you'd have enough USB devices to exhaust your USB ports (hard drives, scanners, printers), could also have a USB hub left with them.

 

[Stetrain]

Why there is no leaks???? Why?? lol

You mean like these from 9to5Mac, Bloomberg, and The Verge?

http://9to5mac.com/2012/05/14/apple...lay-ultra-thin-design-and-super-fast-usb-3-3/

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...thinner-mac-laptops-sporting-intel-chips.html

http://www.theverge.com/2012/5/14/3020483/new-macbook-pros-confirmed-to-have-nvidia-graphics

Or are you waiting for something else?

 

[nanxyyyyyyyy]

You mean like these from 9to5Mac, Bloomberg, and The Verge?

http://9to5mac.com/2012/05/14/apple...lay-ultra-thin-design-and-super-fast-usb-3-3/

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...thinner-mac-laptops-sporting-intel-chips.html

http://www.theverge.com/2012/5/14/3020483/new-macbook-pros-confirmed-to-have-nvidia-graphics

Or are you waiting for something else?

Haha, I mean there is no leak of release date like iPad, but these info are also cool. I really want to see the new pro.

 

[Stetrain]

Haha, I mean there is no leak of release date like iPad, but these info are also cool. I really want to see the new pro.

I'd say that June 11 is about as confirmed for the MBP as the iPad's release date was.

 

[StuLax18]

Haha, I mean there is no leak of release date like iPad, but these info are also cool. I really want to see the new pro.

Not sure if troll, or just dumb.

 

[nanxyyyyyyyy]

I'd say that June 11 is about as confirmed for the MBP as the iPad's release date was.

Let's party then, like the start of this thread , hahaha

 

[CountSessine]

On the one hand, there are what is likely the majority of users who do not need gigabit ethernet or an optical drive. Fine. If ultra-light portability is the primary concern, there is a perfect match for these people in the form of the MacBook Air. OR, if they need the computing power of the Pro they might have to (GASP!) put up with a slightly thicker model with an additional 4 ounces "wasted" on an optical drive. But in the end, a fully functional Pro with gigabit ethernet and an optical drive is not going to be significantly less portable than one missing those features.
Conversely, those who DO need and use the added functionality of gigabit ethernet and/or optical drive are being told "Hey, if you need those things, you don't need portability. Carry extras." What sense does that make? Carrying extras is a LOT less portable than carrying the extra weight of a thicker Pro with built in gigabit ethernet and optical drive.

I think the one nuance you're missing here is how many customers really need these features vs how many people have to put up with a suboptimal design. I think that we can agree that an MBP that doesn't have an optical drive or an ethernet port is a suboptimal design for people who don't want to change their workflow. Maybe you think you "need" to be able to read or burn DVDs. A lot of people complained that they "needed" to be able to talk to SCSI scanners back in the day. One day SCSI connectors disappeared, and everyone had to buy USB scanners. That sucked. Either way, this design causes inconvenience in the short term and forces painful change and adjustment in the long term.

I think we can also agree that a heavier MBP is an inconvenience for the people who don't use the optical drive or the ethernet jack. I'd be happy with a MBA, as long as it's 15" and has a quad-core CPU and a discrete GPU (both of which I use). So I *need* an MBP - there's no 'adapter' that will give me those things. At the same time, the current MBP weighs 5.6lbs - it's a real monster. I can deadlift just short of 300lbs, but it's still a pain to carry this thing around. Even if they could get it down to just 4.5lbs it would be a lot better. The 5.6lbs MBP, which for me carries around a lot of dead weight in the form of the optical drive and all of the extra aluminum in the larger case that's needed to accomodate it, is a really suboptimal design.

So who's needs are greater? Should I have to drag around an extra pound of dead weight so that you don't have to carry around any dongles and adapters, or should you have to carry your adapters to give me a lighter laptop? I think what's most 'fair' depends on how many people still use their ethernet port and optical drive. I suspect not many do, and most customers would opt for the lighter laptop.

Apple spent a lot of time, effort, and money developing a line of computers that moved them away from the "toy computer" image hung on them in the late 90s. Now, it seems they want to move back into that role - only this time the label will be deserved.

That's not really how I see Apple's history, but that's ok.

Some people NEED the power of a full-blown pro-level machine, which includes both desk tops and portables. And some people simply WANT the power of a full-blown pro-level machine, which includes both desktops and portables. Has Apple decided to abandon those who need and/or want fully capable portable Macs in favor of the "cool factor" of super-light portability? I certainly hope not, when the compromise is simply a SLIGHTLY less portable Pro design that will, in the end, satisfy both hard core and more casual type users.

Oh brother. Lay off the 'pro' ********, or make it actually MEAN something. I use my computer for my job. I earn very good money working as an embedded-systems programmer. Every machine in Apple's line-up could be considered a 'pro' machine, in one way or another. Find me another computer, desktop or laptop, that has an IO connector with as much raw speed as the thunderbolt connectors that just about every one of Apple's machines have now.

What is it about your laptop that isn't "pro" or "leet" enough for you? You can't plug in an ethernet jack? Buy a thunderbolt display and there you go. Problem solved. It's expensive, but we're talking "pro" here, right? Spend money to make money? You can't plug in an ethernet jack on the road? Take an adapter with you. You're already carrying that $2000 laptop in a case - it's probably got some pockets. And you'll be a lot happier carrying around a 4lb computer on the road than you will carrying today's 5.6lb MBP - your back will thank you when you hit your 40s.

 

[zewazir]

The thing is that most people need those things, optical drives and gigabit ethernet, at their desk. Why include them in the machine to be carried around all the time when most people don't need them most of the time?

Most people don't need even 30% of what the MacBook Pro is actually capable of doing. Should they simply dumb everything down to the level of the majority user? In the minds of most Mac users I know, there is a reason for the "Pro" designation - because it is aimed at those higher-level users that actually push computers to their limits - a lot of whom may not be able to afford both a desktop AND a laptop, yet their work still demands mobility of their Mac.

I think that with the removal of the ODD we'll see a big jump in battery life. Closer to 10 hours on the integrated GPU. That's a trade-off I'd be happy to see.

If the ODD is not being used, it only draws a bare trickle to keep it available to the system. An unused ODD will not have a significant impact on battery life. OTOH, an external drive, should MBP users who still need ODD, will have a significant negative impact on battery life compared to an internal drive.

Some of the equipment I work on out in the field requires a serial port, and sometimes I have to pull old information off of floppy disks. Those two things are essential to certain tasks I have to perform.

I gave up long ago trying to find laptops with serial ports and floppy drives built in. I much prefer having a lighter, faster, more modern laptop, and I can simply plug in a USB to serial adapter and/or USB floppy drive when I need them.

And when the industry has a viable, and common, alternative to optical disks, then we will probably see ODDs fade away. Current alternatives have not standardized enough to replace ODDs - especially in the realm of video services. Digital isn't quite there when it comes to building a quick demo, burning it to a DVD, and giving the DVD to a client to show their board.

If there are some 5% or 10% of current customers who will be absolutely appalled and outraged by a laptop with no ethernet and no ODD, and refuse to carry dongles or external drives in their bags, I don't think Apple cares if they buy something else.

I do not know of ANY company, not even Apple, that can ignore the possibility of losing 10% sales of one of their major product lines by upsetting that size component of their customer base. I highly doubt switchers would make up the difference if even 5% of current Pro users went elsewhere because the new line does not meet their needs.

It may be that Apple is simply thinking people will end up gritting their teeth an buy the new MBP anyway, along with the necessary externals to meet their needs. But they most certainly CARE whether they lose 10% of their high-end portable customers.

 

[CountSessine]

The new Rumors about the MBP is the reason why Apple is going downhill without Steve, and not up.

Innovation is not removing ports, ODD and making the case slimmer. Anyone can do that...that takes no intelligence, skill or ability.

Real innovation would be to remove the ODD, increase battery size, increase memory+HDD space WHILE keeping cpu temps low and the laptop running cool.

ANYONE can slap together components in a small case and call it a day. It's even easier by not including half the components(dedicated grfx cards).

Apple thinking of removing ethernet+FW...Good luck in your bankruptcy goals of 2014

This computer hasn't even come out yet - how do you know anything at all about how big it's battery is going to be? Or how hot it's going to run?

Apple is always 2 years away from bankruptcy for those who disagree with them.

 

[thundersteele]

Apple already charges $100 for the high res 15" display, so hopefully that won't change, only become retina instead of HiRes.

I think that if there are retina MBPs, then all models will have retina. My guess for the pricing of the 15'' models is that the low end model will come without discrete GPU, together with the loss of the ODD this should be enough to keep the $1800 price point. There's also the option to stick with 4 GB RAM for the base models to keep the price down.

It's less clear to mewhat will happen to the 13'' model, and whether they can and will have a 17'' (retina) MBP in the future.

 

[Stetrain]

If the ODD is not being used, it only draws a bare trickle to keep it available to the system. An unused ODD will not have a significant impact on battery life. OTOH, an external drive, should MBP users who still need ODD, will have a significant negative impact on battery life compared to an internal drive.

I guess I wasn't clear. I wasn't supposing that battery life would be gained because the ODD used battery. I was implying that the physical space that is now occupied by the ODD and the mechanical 2.5" HDD could be used for a physically larger battery. If you look at the internals of a current gen MBP those two devices take up a large part of the internal footprint.

Is a large gain in battery life a worthy tradeoff for having to plug in an external DVD drive on the occasion that you need it?

If the ODD was gone and the HDD was replaced with blade-style SSDs, the inside of the MBP would consist of a logic board and a big battery, much like the Macbook Air but with more internal volume.

Edit: Here's what the current 15" MBP looks like inside for reference:

Keeping the same thickness, I think you could reasonably double the battery size (100% increase) by removing the ODD and switching to a compact SSD like the Air. When you factor in the fact that it's rumored to be a bit thinner, something like a 50-75% increase isn't unreasonable.

 

[CountSessine]

I guess I wasn't clear. I wasn't supposing that battery life would be gained because the ODD used battery. I was implying that the physical space that is now occupied by the ODD and the mechanical 2.5" HDD could be used for a physically larger battery. If you look at the internals of a current gen MBP those two devices take up a large part of the internal footprint.

If the ODD was gone and the HDD was replaced with blade-style SSDs, the inside of the MBP would consist of a logic board and a big battery, much like the Macbook Air but with more internal volume.

Yes - the ODD especially. It's absolutely huge - and is mostly empty wasted space. For a technology that packs a lot of data into a small area (optical discs), you need to waste a lot of space to read from and write to it.

----------

I do not know of ANY company, not even Apple, that can ignore the possibility of losing 10% sales of one of their major product lines by upsetting that size component of their customer base. I highly doubt switchers would make up the difference if even 5% of current Pro users went elsewhere because the new line does not meet their needs.

It may be that Apple is simply thinking people will end up gritting their teeth an buy the new MBP anyway, along with the necessary externals to meet their needs. But they most certainly CARE whether they lose 10% of their high-end portable customers.

It might bring a lot of new people into the market, too. My wife wanted to buy a mac with a bigger monitor, but has always opted for less-expensive 13" models. We can certainly afford the extra money for the 15" - but they're too heavy. A lot of women (and probably men) don't like them because of how much dead-weight they carry.

 

[zewazir]

Oh brother. Lay off the 'pro' ********, or make it actually MEAN something. I use my computer for my job. I earn very good money working as an embedded-systems programmer. Every machine in Apple's line-up could be considered a 'pro' machine, in one way or another. Find me another computer, desktop or laptop, that has an IO connector with as much raw speed as the thunderbolt connectors that just about every one of Apple's machines have now.

What is it about your laptop that isn't "pro" or "leet" enough for you? You can't plug in an ethernet jack? Buy a thunderbolt display and there you go. Problem solved. It's expensive, but we're talking "pro" here, right? Spend money to make money? You can't plug in an ethernet jack on the road? Take an adapter with you. You're already carrying that $2000 laptop in a case - it's probably got some pockets. And you'll be a lot happier carrying around a 4lb computer on the road than you will carrying today's 5.6lb MBP - your back will thank you when you hit your 40s.

OTOH, if you DON'T need or want an ODD or ethernet port, why not get yourself an Air? The entire purpose of having two lines is to meet the needs of two fundamentally different types of users, not to simply make one line more expensive with zero practical differences.

The PRO designation does MEAN something - at least for those of us who actually USE the features the Pro line has which the Air line does NOT have. If I did not need the features of a PRo, i WOULD have a MacBook instead, and be looking at upgrading to an Air with the next release. Maybe the Pro line has no meaning for you. So what? You are not the center of the universe. Nor am I. But then, I am not the one insisting that my needs be dismissed because they are more demanding than yours, or aren't in the majority.

Apple should be looking for a total line that will meet both of our needs. I NEED wired networking for the higher data transfer rates. I NEED an ODD to give quick run-off copies of demo videos to my clients when I am on the road. I do NOT need the hassle of having to dig adapters and externals out of my bag and plug them in (thus significantly increasing my footprint) while my clients are waiting for me to proceed with my presentation. It is FAR more impressive to just whip out my MBP, run my demo, and if the initial presentation is positively received, burn a quick copy to DVD for them to present to their board for final approval.

One other thing: I can guarantee you the weight difference between a MBP with ODD and ethernet, and an MBP w/o, is not going to be 1.6 lbs. An internal ODD weighs less than 4 oz., and the 1/8" difference in thickness the lower case assembly would need to accommodate the ODD and a gigabit ethernet port is not going to add 21 extra oz. either. The TOTAL difference in weight between a design with ODD and ethernet, and a design without - all other factors except case thickness being equal - would probably turn out to be less than 6 oz.

Conversely, carrying an ODD in external form will add more weight to be handled by my 52 year old back than a built in ODD will. So, NO, I will NOT be thanking anyone for a lighter Mac that just forces me to carry a bunch of heavier add-ons that were once built in.

For someone who used to lug around PowerBook G3 with associated accouterments before they managed to put it all in one nice package, 6 extra ounces is nothing. OTOH, being forced to go back to the days when I had to carry multiple items to do what I need to do is a giant step backwards, no matter what the rest of the design can do. I was very happy with my first PowerBook G4, that allowed me to get rid of all the extra accouterments. I will not be a happy Mac user if I end up back where I was in the days of the G3.

And a quick question: how the heck will adding a thunderbolt display to my MBP help with my need for an ethernet port on a Mac PORTABLE? Am I supposed to haul around the thunderbolt display along with the external ODD? I thought you were concerned about my aging back?

 

[Xcallibur]

I think that if there are retina MBPs, then all models will have retina. My guess for the pricing of the 15'' models is that the low end model will come without discrete GPU, together with the loss of the ODD this should be enough to keep the $1800 price point. There's also the option to stick with 4 GB RAM for the base models to keep the price down.

It's less clear to mewhat will happen to the 13'' model, and whether they can and will have a 17'' (retina) MBP in the future.

If they think people like myself will pay £1500 for a laptop without a dedicated GPU, they can think again.

 

[Stetrain]

...

Welp, I guess that if the rumors are true then the Mac laptop line just won't be for you anymore. Unless they keep the 17" with the same design and port layout, which I think is quite possible.


There will most definitely still be a difference between and Air and a Pro.

Dual core vs Quad core

Low voltage underclocked vs a full power mobile chip

Integrated GPU vs dedicated GPU

Larger and higher resolution screen, more battery life, and hopefully upgradeable RAM.

 

[zewazir]

RE: ODD vs. bigger battery: I guarantee a larger battery will add far more weight than that saved by removing the ODD.

For those whose primary concern is battery life even at the expense of a heavier Mac, I can see their point.


OTOH, for those who keep arguing about weight being so important that their wives are forced to the 13" smaller model, removing the ODD in favor of more battery is going to end up adding weight for the same design, not save it.

 

[Stetrain]

RE: ODD vs. bigger battery: I guarantee a larger battery will add far more weight than that saved by removing the ODD.

For those whose primary concern is battery life even at the expense of a heavier Mac, I can see their point.


OTOH, for those who keep arguing about weight being so important that their wives are forced to the 13" smaller model, removing the ODD in favor of more battery is going to end up adding weight for the same design, not save it.

I think that the other thing that they might do is remove the glass over the screens and have all models look like the Air and MBP antiglare displays. One review I read said that there was a noticeable weight difference between the MBP with and without the antiglare option because of the glass.

In the end I think that the weight will stay about the same, I don't see there being a big drop especially since as you say batteries are very dense and heavy.

 

[samac92]

I think the one nuance you're missing here is how many customers really need these features vs how many people have to put up with a suboptimal design. I think that we can agree that an MBP that doesn't have an optical drive or an ethernet port is a suboptimal design for people who don't want to change their workflow. Maybe you think you "need" to be able to read or burn DVDs. A lot of people complained that they "needed" to be able to talk to SCSI scanners back in the day. One day SCSI connectors disappeared, and everyone had to buy USB scanners. That sucked. Either way, this design causes inconvenience in the short term and forces painful change and adjustment in the long term.

I think we can also agree that a heavier MBP is an inconvenience for the people who don't use the optical drive or the ethernet jack. I'd be happy with a MBA, as long as it's 15" and has a quad-core CPU and a discrete GPU (both of which I use). So I *need* an MBP - there's no 'adapter' that will give me those things. At the same time, the current MBP weighs 5.6lbs - it's a real monster. I can deadlift just short of 300lbs, but it's still a pain to carry this thing around. Even if they could get it down to just 4.5lbs it would be a lot better. The 5.6lbs MBP, which for me carries around a lot of dead weight in the form of the optical drive and all of the extra aluminum in the larger case that's needed to accomodate it, is a really suboptimal design.

So who's needs are greater? Should I have to drag around an extra pound of dead weight so that you don't have to carry around any dongles and adapters, or should you have to carry your adapters to give me a lighter laptop? I think what's most 'fair' depends on how many people still use their ethernet port and optical drive. I suspect not many do, and most customers would opt for the lighter laptop.

Great post.

 

[GuitarG20]

I guess my point is that if your computer use is anything like mine is (a bit of an assumption on my part), most of the places that you'd go where you'd have enough USB devices to exhaust your USB ports (hard drives, scanners, printers), could also have a USB hub left with them.

that's a good point. I hadn't thought of that.

 

[PVisitors]

Most people don't need even 30% of what the MacBook Pro is actually capable of doing. Should they simply dumb everything down to the level of the majority user? In the minds of most Mac users I know, there is a reason for the "Pro" designation - because it is aimed at those higher-level users that actually push computers to their limits - a lot of whom may not be able to afford both a desktop AND a laptop, yet their work still demands mobility of their Mac.


If the ODD is not being used, it only draws a bare trickle to keep it available to the system. An unused ODD will not have a significant impact on battery life. OTOH, an external drive, should MBP users who still need ODD, will have a significant negative impact on battery life compared to an internal drive.


And when the industry has a viable, and common, alternative to optical disks, then we will probably see ODDs fade away. Current alternatives have not standardized enough to replace ODDs - especially in the realm of video services. Digital isn't quite there when it comes to building a quick demo, burning it to a DVD, and giving the DVD to a client to show their board.



I do not know of ANY company, not even Apple, that can ignore the possibility of losing 10% sales of one of their major product lines by upsetting that size component of their customer base. I highly doubt switchers would make up the difference if even 5% of current Pro users went elsewhere because the new line does not meet their needs.

It may be that Apple is simply thinking people will end up gritting their teeth an buy the new MBP anyway, along with the necessary externals to meet their needs. But they most certainly CARE whether they lose 10% of their high-end portable customers.

The number you have pulled out of your arsehole, "10%" will most certainly be replaced by more than that purely because it will be slimmer and offer a Retina Display.

 

[skaertus]

1. iPad 3 major battery drain is caused by the retina display, which requires a much more powerful backlight. Not by the quad-core graphics - it may have its share, but retina display is the major culprit. Same problem could arise in retina MBP - they don't have that much space to expand battery size as they did with iPad 3.

2. So, fonts look sharper in windows (and in linux, BTW), and Apple solution is to drive an insanely high resolution LCD pannel, instead of improving subpixel rendering method, which is purely software related? That makes sense to me.

3. No, they don't. I have a iPad 3, had the original, and 1024x756 games looked better on the iPad 1. Desktop and apps aware of retina display, of course, look just great.

1. Apple may have space to expand battery size if it drops the HDD (in favor of SDD) and the ODD. And the removal of both will help reduce battery consumption.

2. Yes, and in fact it makes a lot of sense. In fact, it is not a software-related problem. It is a hardware-related problem, and the software is only a workaround here. Sub-pixel rendering is not as simple as it looks. Text would of course look very pixelated in any computer screen -screens have something in the range of 100-150 dpi, while printed documents may have 600 dpi or higher. The solution is to apply some sort of workarounds to smooth the fonts - and sub-pixel rendering is the most advanced method used in LCD screens.

Fonts look sharper in Windows because Microsoft uses a sub-pixel rendering technology called ClearType which basically distorts the font appearance so it fits the pixel grid and, as a consequence, look very crisp on the screen. However, the fonts which are shown on the screen do not match exactly the fonts which are printed. It is a trade-off: fonts are more readable on the screen, but they look different on the screen and on a piece of paper.

Apple is very committed to typography and takes the opposite approach. No compromises. Its sub-pixel rendering technology is Quartz. Fonts on the screen of a Mac look exactly (or very close to) as they look on a printed piece of paper. However, as Apple does not "force" fonts to fit the pixel grid, they look blurry on the screen. This approach is preferred by designers and people who work with desktop publishing - the bulk of which are traditional customers of Apple.

There is no magic solution to this. The fact is that fonts will look pixelated on the screen. The solution is to make them blurry (as in Mac OS X) or distorted (as in Windows). The only solution to have fonts which are sharp without distortions is to increase the resolution on the screens. And that's what Apple is accomplishing with Retina Displays.

3. If this holds true, than Apple will have to deal with it. And everybody, because after Windows 8 is launched, PCs will start getting Retina Displays too. It wouldn't be a huge problem to Apple because, want it or not, Macs are not for gamers. If you are a gamer, you would probably get a PC with a über-video card which is not available even if you buy a Mac Pro.