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2012 Macbook Pro Redesign
- Thread starter Funkymonk
- Start date
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3 Things for the 15 Inch Model
My personal top 3 improvements for 15" MBP.
1. IPS or e-IPS fine, whatever.
The bottom line here is that the iPad is a sub $500 piece of equipment. And the iPad now has an IPS display. It makes my skin boil. How dare they those iPad users - the scumm! They don't deserve a fancy IPS panel - they don't even know what one is! OOHHH !! OOOOH!
Screen resolution - absolutely dont care. Just give us an IPS panel!
2. Superdrive.
This should be self explanitory for most users because MOST users never slide anything into their SuperDrive for anymore... oh wait! Thats right we do still use the SuperDrive... for OPTIBAY CONVERSION that is. Jesus what a waste of space.
But more importantly the DVD drive is considerable dead weight in a notebook. Perhaps we would save only a few grams. However quite frankly - a few grams in a notebook for something that is NEVER used is totally worth it. For the 15" MBP is so heavy with all its Glass and Metal casing then whatever weight we can save anywhere else is going to be worthwhile.
3. A 28nm Discreet GPU.
Why is this important? Because the Ivy Bridge will be 22nm wheras the current / last years process node (for GPUs) remains 40nm.
Bottom line: Both NVIDIA and AMD are jumping from 40nm all the was to 28nm in one go. When we plug in to the AC mains - the max speed of the discreet graphics is VERY thermally constrained by the chassis / notebook fans. Mobile graphics chips are going to be considerably faster (and better matched to the Intel CPU) on 28nm. Because the max heat dissipation will inevitably be the same. OR LESS if Apple turn the MBP line into Ultrabooks.
Five years from now, it will be a poke in the ribs if my $2000 laptop still has a nice fast Ivy Bridge chip, but remains completely dogged by a really slow 40nm graphics chip. I mean, compared to the 4-year old computers that will come out next year and all have considerably faster 28nm graphics parts.
Wheras a 22nm CPU + 28nm graphics chip seems odly future-resistant. At least it will be self-consistent!
MY REASONING:
All the other updates (like the battery life, form factor, USB 3, mSATA port, etc) are pretty much decided by practical constraints that these beloved Apple Engineers already seem pretty good at balancing off against each other. Such things we get "for free". Meaning that they are basically inevitable advances due to for example due to the new Ivy Bridge platform and so on. So we don't need to be so concerned about whether or not Apple will be doing that stuff.
Points 1. and 2. depend mainly on Apple's Greed. The cost of IPS panels / Asian suppliers. And for point 2. its a lot CHEAPER for apple to continue leaving the DVD Drive in there as a product feature. Much in the same way that their utterly useless SD card slot is also a product feature but also has little impact on their BOM / manufacturing costs.
Point 3. depends entirely if Tim Cook can convince NVIDIA to give apple's laptop model(s) an exclusivity deal. The yet-to-be-announced 28nm "NVIDIA G600M" series parts. Historically - theres a precedent already when NVIDIA gave Apple that Core2Duo GeForce chipset thingy later known as ION. Which was brand new at the time. Of course AMD will also be making 28nm mobile GPUs at around the same time. Its not inconceivable but politically less likely for the AMD company to make such deal with Apple than NVIDIA. At least for this time around.
The over-arching problem is supply of 28nm part from either company will be heavily constrained. So the manufacturer would be signing away ALL its precious hard-to-mass-produce stock over to Apple to meet the high Apple quantities / volume figures. Failing any such a necessary exclusivity deal, some "late 2012" refresh would then provide a great opportunity to update the graphics chip. Just like we saw happen on last years refresh.
My personal top 3 improvements for 15" MBP.
1. IPS or e-IPS fine, whatever.
The bottom line here is that the iPad is a sub $500 piece of equipment. And the iPad now has an IPS display. It makes my skin boil. How dare they those iPad users - the scumm! They don't deserve a fancy IPS panel - they don't even know what one is! OOHHH !! OOOOH!
Screen resolution - absolutely dont care. Just give us an IPS panel!
2. Superdrive.
This should be self explanitory for most users because MOST users never slide anything into their SuperDrive for anymore... oh wait! Thats right we do still use the SuperDrive... for OPTIBAY CONVERSION that is. Jesus what a waste of space.
But more importantly the DVD drive is considerable dead weight in a notebook. Perhaps we would save only a few grams. However quite frankly - a few grams in a notebook for something that is NEVER used is totally worth it. For the 15" MBP is so heavy with all its Glass and Metal casing then whatever weight we can save anywhere else is going to be worthwhile.
3. A 28nm Discreet GPU.
Why is this important? Because the Ivy Bridge will be 22nm wheras the current / last years process node (for GPUs) remains 40nm.
Bottom line: Both NVIDIA and AMD are jumping from 40nm all the was to 28nm in one go. When we plug in to the AC mains - the max speed of the discreet graphics is VERY thermally constrained by the chassis / notebook fans. Mobile graphics chips are going to be considerably faster (and better matched to the Intel CPU) on 28nm. Because the max heat dissipation will inevitably be the same. OR LESS if Apple turn the MBP line into Ultrabooks.
Five years from now, it will be a poke in the ribs if my $2000 laptop still has a nice fast Ivy Bridge chip, but remains completely dogged by a really slow 40nm graphics chip. I mean, compared to the 4-year old computers that will come out next year and all have considerably faster 28nm graphics parts.
Wheras a 22nm CPU + 28nm graphics chip seems odly future-resistant. At least it will be self-consistent!
MY REASONING:
All the other updates (like the battery life, form factor, USB 3, mSATA port, etc) are pretty much decided by practical constraints that these beloved Apple Engineers already seem pretty good at balancing off against each other. Such things we get "for free". Meaning that they are basically inevitable advances due to for example due to the new Ivy Bridge platform and so on. So we don't need to be so concerned about whether or not Apple will be doing that stuff.
Points 1. and 2. depend mainly on Apple's Greed. The cost of IPS panels / Asian suppliers. And for point 2. its a lot CHEAPER for apple to continue leaving the DVD Drive in there as a product feature. Much in the same way that their utterly useless SD card slot is also a product feature but also has little impact on their BOM / manufacturing costs.
Point 3. depends entirely if Tim Cook can convince NVIDIA to give apple's laptop model(s) an exclusivity deal. The yet-to-be-announced 28nm "NVIDIA G600M" series parts. Historically - theres a precedent already when NVIDIA gave Apple that Core2Duo GeForce chipset thingy later known as ION. Which was brand new at the time. Of course AMD will also be making 28nm mobile GPUs at around the same time. Its not inconceivable but politically less likely for the AMD company to make such deal with Apple than NVIDIA. At least for this time around.
The over-arching problem is supply of 28nm part from either company will be heavily constrained. So the manufacturer would be signing away ALL its precious hard-to-mass-produce stock over to Apple to meet the high Apple quantities / volume figures. Failing any such a necessary exclusivity deal, some "late 2012" refresh would then provide a great opportunity to update the graphics chip. Just like we saw happen on last years refresh.
Last edited:
Yes. But "cripple" is a pretty strong word. Most likely a merge:
No ODD, no Firewire (ThunderBolt Dongles here we come
)Better displays, more battery life, conventional SSD's standard.
I could live with all of this as long as the new lineup is not sealed and I can upgrade the innards as I see fit. The 11/13" people (like me) will probably get screwed in this regard.
From the actual rumor front:
http://www.appleinsider.com/article...und_ivy_bridge_chip_shipments_until_june.html
http://www.appleinsider.com/article...und_ivy_bridge_chip_shipments_until_june.html
Hopefully Apple worked something out with Intel to get the Ivy Bridge chips first. This is not unheard of for Apple to kind of pre-buy a supply part so to ensure they get it first. But I have no data to back that up......
guys, you can stop speculating until this summer
official press release just announced OSX 10.8 for this summer
so don't expect brand new macs until this forthcoming WWDC
official press release just announced OSX 10.8 for this summer
so don't expect brand new macs until this forthcoming WWDC
so, now that we know Mountain Lion is coming this summer, that means the new MacBook Pro's will launch alongside and pre-loaded with it!
guys, you can stop speculating until this summer
official press release just announced OSX 10.8 for this summer
so don't expect brand new macs until this forthcoming WWDC
Yep. Made my decision much easier -- ordering an early 2011 17" next week.
BTW, strangely enough, MacMall has had $50-$100 mail in rebates in effect for the early 2011 MBPs for the last few weeks that was to be in effect until 2/29. Those 2/29 rebates have now been pulled.
I think everyone, vendors included, were anticipating at least an early March announcement, and now that can be safely pushed to WWDC window due to Intel's announcement.
I know. I just don't want to spend $2k on an early 2011 machine which is a year old
I know. I just don't want to spend $2k on an early 2011 machine which is a year old
I'm fighting the same thing, but the price savings is nice, and the only difference between the early/late 2011 is .1 GHz and the overclocked ATI 6750. IIRC.
Call me crazy, but I'd rather have the early 17" 2.3 with a 8MB L3 than a late 17" 2.4 with a 6MB L3.
i was able to pickup a few early 2011 2.3 quad i7 with the Ag Screen from micro center. doesnt seem to be available any more http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0378808
they only have the glossy one for the same price
they only have the glossy one for the same price
I'm not sure about used sites. But you can get the early 2011 models at a discount, e.g. from Amazon and other resellers that still have them in stock. Since you want a special configuration, you might have to search a lot.
You can also get "as good as new" from the apple refurbished store, e.g. http://store.apple.com/us/product/G0M3BLL/A
There was a post (on this site, matter of fact) that most of their processors weren't actually getting delayed...
What do you guys think the chance of the 13" getting a quad core 35w ivy bridge will be?
I seriously hope it does !
Yes, like the macbook air
I seriously hope it does !
Non-removable RAM?
Yes, like the macbook air
If the MBP line remains, the 13" is a very serious candidate to getting a quad core CPU. Ivy Bridge has drastic improvements in energy management and heat production, meaning even a 13" could hold one of these bad boys (though perhaps on the higher-end option only).
If the 13" MBP gets phased out and fused with the MBA line (as Appleinsider suggests), you can say goodbye to that. Say goodbye as well to upgradeable RAM, upgradeable storages, the generally-acknowledged better-quality screen of the MBPs, and possibly the GPU power required to run a retina display comfortably.
"The MBA is just a MBP without the Superdrive.", the fanboys said. Turns out not to be quite that true.
I agree that the loss of upgradeability on the pro line would be a little tragic, but I don't think any of the other compromises are as large of a hit as you think. The current 13" already lacks a dedicated GPU. Let's face it, based on thermal constraints, Apple would never have put a dGPU in any 13". Ivy Bridge also brings the HD4000, which finally puts integrated graphics back on track. Since the HD4000 is capable of driving resolutions up to 4K, "retina" displays shouldn't be a problem. I'm a firm believer that Apple is set to bring HiDPI to all Macs, as well as the ATD. Ivy Bridge will allow it on all the notebooks (even the lowest end), and the only constraints will be cost and availability of the panels. As for the ATD, it will get HiDPI when Apple sticks a discrete GPU in the display to drive it through Thunderbolt. At that point, whether or not the notebooks will have a dGPU will be a moot point. Of course, all of this will be at least a year down the line before it's complete, but we'll likely start seeing the notebooks by this summer. Apple can't have an iPad with a resolution higher than the Macs that develop those apps, right?
I never stated MBP 13"s had dGPUs. But because the Intel HD X000 has some performance "lent" from the CPU part of the chip, a quad core CPU with IB HD 4000 would end up giving better graphical performance than the Ultra-low voltage dual cores of the MBAs.
Ah. I can agree with you there, but based on how well the 11" can drive a 27" Thunderbolt display, I think with IB, driving its own retina display should be fine.
Very good point.
Still, it doesn't take away from the CPU/Storage/RAM/Screen quality compromises that will come if a merge is to happen. All of that for 700g less of weight which, in fairness, would be easily offset once you lugged your external HDD around due to space constraints. SSDs are too expensive for them to offer more than 128GB at base.