Funny...my old macbook pro 2007 was upgraded with 3rd party ram...no issues; the same goes for my other laptops.
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2014 Mac Mini Teardown Highlights Increased Difficulty For User Upgradability
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Funny...my old macbook pro 2007 was upgraded with 3rd party ram...no issues; the same goes for my other laptops.
Last year, I had been saving up to buy a new, hopefully updated Mac Pro tower. You know, the aluminum one with multiple hard drive bays, lots of INTERNAL expansion potential, etc. Then Apple rolls out the new Mac Pro that resembles a small black trash can and has little to no internal updatability.
I ended up building a custom PC and using that for the time. But I still own a lot of Apple software that I want to use, so I decided I'd buy one of the new Mac Mini's whenever they were released, because at least they had a *little* potential for possible upgrades (second hard drive, expandable memory, etc). So I waited a year for the potential release, and then Apple releases their new, neutered Mac Mini with soldered ram, NO secondary hard drive bay which USED to be an optical drive that they removed. So now it has no optical drive, AND no secondary drive, AND it's only available as a dual-core. So even at the highest price-point, you get a dual-core with permanent memory, no keyboard, no mouse, no optical drive, and a 5400-rpm hard drive and proprietary video card.
I WOULD have been happy with the Iris video IF I had still had the ability to upgrade to a second hard drive, or upgrade ram at a later date when I wanted, or even had the option of still having an optical drive in it. But no. In my *opinion*, the Mac Mini has become useless. At least for how much money they are asking for it.
I refuse to buy hardware that doesn't have *some* future upgrade potential.
I don't want the new Mac Pro because it requires ALL add-ons to be done so externally via expensive enclosures with cables running all over.
So, I'm finally decided that I'm just going to build a completely new system. A full Hack-Pro. Apple can kiss my money good bye because I already own all the operating systems and software. I'll just build my own system that will comparable to their Mac Pro, but will cost 1/3rd the price and be just about as fast, AND I will be able to upgrade components in the future.
Apparently Apple thinks that the pro's will be willing to drop endless buckets of money on their products even when they make really BAD design choices that require expensive external add-on bits, and in some cases they are correct.
In other cases, the "pro" turns out to be a guy that's owned / operated his own computer consulting business and has been building computers for 24 years. I know they won't miss my money, they are rolling in enough money as it is. It just sucks that Apple apparently no longer cares what their customers WANT.
I wouldn't call it greed. I would call it a way to cut mfg costs so they can lower the MSRP. It also is actually more reliable. Why? The individual chips are tested before they get soldered, after they get soldered and then after final assembly. socketed memory gets tested before it goes on the module and then after final assembly, so I don't think it gets tested after they install the memory until after final assembly. I could be wrong on this, but soldered memory is tested before it gets soldered, after it gets soldered, and then after final assembly. Plus, it doesn't get touched by humans, which is a cause of problems. Most users don't wear wrist straps when they install memory, and that's a big source of future problems, in addition MOST users are installing crap RAM that gets flaky after about a year. Apple memory is tested to high standards, Kingston is one of the few that tests to the same specs as Apple.
Here's a true story and this happens in some form on large and small scale when they don't use Apple memory.
DIY is always cheaper, but less reliable.
Buy AppleCare warranty and end up having less costly problems for the 3 years of ownership.
The second a user opens up a computer, Murphy's Laws take effect. Why put yourself in danger of Murphy's Laws? to save a buck.
Here's a true story that happened to a customer as explained by an Apple Technical Sales rep.
A customer bought several hundred Apple Powerbooks (this story took place a while back, but it's still applicable). The model Powerbook was newly announced and it was a top end model. Anyway, because the customer wanted to save money, they decided to go with Crucial memory they bought and installed themselves VS buying Apple supplied memory and part of the reason was they THOUGHT that if they bought memory from the same mfg that Apple uses, they can just simply save money. At that time, Apple was using Crucial as a memory supplier for that memory module. Sounds plausible, does it? Sounds like it's a proper solution to save money. Right? WRONG. It cost the company HUGE amounts of loses in lost productivity, pissed off employees, and it took a while to fix the problem due to 3rd party memory.
Well, guess what? The memory they bought from Crucial was NOT the same memory Apple uses that they get directly from Crucial. Why? Because the customer doesn't have any contract or specifically specs out what memory specs/testing has to be done to fulfill the purchase order agreement. The Crucial memory that Apple buys had fewer actual chips on the module, the Crucial memory they bought form Crucial had more chips soldered onto the memory module. Oops. who's fault is this? The customer basically doesn't know how to spec the memory, or Crucial doesn't know that they should use the exact same memory they supply Apple. All the customer really knows is what model they have and they tell Crucial or their account rep what make and model computer and the memory supplier ships whatever they THINK works, or should work. What was going on is that Apple was typically specing higher density chips to be soldered on to the memory PCB, why? Because it ran cooler as they required less power. What some of these companies were doing is soldering lower density chips on the memory PCB, and even stacking them on top of one another. This caused major heat and power supply issues because the memory modules was poorly made/designed.
What happened with the customer is they got pissed off at the reseller AND Apple, yet it was found out after Apple sent people from corporate to investigate, that the problem was indeed CRUCIAL and NOT Apple and NOT the reseller. And guess how much time and wasted productivity from their employees resulted because some IDIOT wanted to save few dollars on 3rd party memory when they bought the shipment of high end laptops. These types of scenarios happen, but you may not hear of them because these types of issues go without lots of media attention.
Work for a large computer reseller that sells to corporate and government accounts for a long period of time. You see and hear TONS of horror stories on a large scale with regards to 3rd party issues. That's some of the reasons why I will NEVER pay for a Windows computer, 3rd party memory, nor will I every buy a Dell. Too many horror stories. I will also never make a DIY computer. I've had customers have TONS of problems with those and they had supposedly qualified IT people assembling and supporting them. They ended up dumping DIY computers and going with a name brand computer and ended up saving money in the long run.
Murphy's Law usually happens to those that try to circumvent normal methods to try to save a buck. See it, done it, got the t-shirt.
Concerning soldered RAM, there are many technologies that are looking to replace PCB edge connector RAM SIMM. My favorite has been the development of fiber optics integrated into PCBs with light conduits replacing copper board traces. I can easily see a RAM SIMM with fiber optic edge connecting to a fiber optic slot receiver running a RAM bus without the need to metallic impedance eye matching.
How much is Apple paying you to be their "VOICE"
Order placed:
- Mac Mini Late 2012, Quad Core 2.6GHz i7, 4GB RAM, 1TB HDD
- 16GB OWC Memory
- 256GB Crucial SSD
- OWC Data Doubler Kit
$1,180, all in.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/897806-REG/Apple_z0np_md3884_Mac_mini_Desktop_Computer.html
Oh...and free expedited shipping too!
- Mac Mini Late 2012, Quad Core 2.6GHz i7, 4GB RAM, 1TB HDD
- 16GB OWC Memory
- 256GB Crucial SSD
- OWC Data Doubler Kit
$1,180, all in.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/897806-REG/Apple_z0np_md3884_Mac_mini_Desktop_Computer.html
Oh...and free expedited shipping too!
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Yup, just a board turn and uses most of the existing stock. So Plan B. Looking forward to the real Mac Mini upgrade next year.
Also, she's gained a lot of weight. They need a new spokes model. I am sure there are a dozens of girls on the Cal Poly campus with the same technical knowledge and better looks that can replace her and boost the YouTube views.
Goodie for you. And how long was it that you replaced the memory? They can get problematic after about a year. A friend of mine and i had the same model iMac, we both installed the same memory from Crucial and both of us had the same issue almost a few weeks apart after a year. We had system crashes and it was both attributed to faulty memory. I had Crucial send me replacement memory, and it didn't freaking work, so they had to send out yet another replacement memory, that worked, but I decided to sell the unit and buy a new computer since the unit was getting old and I usually don't like keeping computers longer than 3 years.
You have a 7 year old MacBookPro? You must like living on the edge. I would have replaced that a LONG time ago just because the newer computers are faster, better graphics, Thunderbolt, USB 3. etc.
Obvious you don't know jack-***** about manufacturing process in China...
Labor is so cheap, it's cheaper to pay someone to solder a component or a harness on a board than the cost of a socket or plug. Besides, the RAM is probably part of the surface mount soldering process, so the only labor is loading the RAM chips. I've seen this many times in board design-- it's the cheap way to go, and Apple is becoming a cheap-ass design company like HTC-- glued battery, soldered RAM, and cheaper Torq #6 screws-- WTF?
And you can't use AppleCare warranty, and Apple won't warrant it because you have 3rd party parts that Apple doesn't normally supply. If you have problems, it'll be because of 3rd party components is my guess. you are now going to have to use that computer in fear of not having major issues that might take time to trouble shoot. Oh well. I guess you'll have to learn the hard way. What do car service people say? "Pay me less now or pay me more later."???
I have done plenty of builds in China including walking the line reassigning people who where refusing to follow proper assembly procedure.
Someone is paid to program that automation equipment and pay for the line start. Every part move contributes to that cost.
When I see your hotel room recipes from Shenzhen, we'll talk.
Soldered RAM is done with robots, they just have people monitoring the robot.
The cheap labor you're referring to is final assembly and boxing the unit. PCB's are all done with robotics and wave solder systems, it's been that way for years. the days of hand soldering is only for certain things that can't be done by a robot.
If anything happens, he can just put the factory RAM and HD back in place and nobody's the wiser.
Again How much is Apple paying you to be their "VOICE" Are you an Apple employee
Thanks for proving my argument about Steve and his NeXT gurus advancing Apple tech.
Interesting story about Steve advancing Apple tech by firing intransigent engineers. Yet another example of why we should not expect Apple to be insanely great in the post-Jobs era.
Back to the RAM debate: lets get one thing clear everyone: Apple did not lower the Mini's MSRP. The Midrange Mini is comparable to the low end Mini from last year, so in effect Apple RAISED the price on the Mini.
This new Mini is all about exploiting a user base which has no where else to go. Apple do not want to build the best computer they can at that price point while maintaining the margins of the previous model. They want to jack margins so they gimped the machine as much as they figured they could without creating a backlash. In that respect, Apple's management sees this new Mini as a great success.
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They don't use glue on the battery, they use an adhesive tape so the battery doesn't flop around inside the unit. It allows them to make the case thinner and the battery costs less because it doesn't have a plastic case around it. Why do you think laptops with plastic cased batteries are a lot thicker or may not have as long of a battery life? that plastic case around the battery make it bigger so you end up using smaller battery and the case is thicker. That's why Apple does it. Plus most people don't properly dispose of the battery after they replace it. They end up throwing it in the trash can instead of sending it to a battery recycling specialist.
Apple wanted to make thinner laptops, because that's what people want. They also want longer batter life. Using the plastic case batteries prevent them to make something that people want. You have to sacrifice user replaceable capabilities for longer battery life and thinner cases.
Wrong.
Apple warranty and Applecare would remain in effect, though would not cover the RAM or SSD.
Having modded (and repaired) my still running 2007 Macbook Pro and 2009 Mac Mini, and built my own PC, I couldn't care less. The only time I've ever used any AppleCare that I've bought is to replace the battery in the Macbook Pro.
It still amazes me that Apple actually spent money to re-design a product and make it worse.
They should have just left it alone, increased the chip speed, increased the base RAM and put a graphics card in the high end model.
This is a company that actually went out of it's way to be obnoxious
They should have just left it alone, increased the chip speed, increased the base RAM and put a graphics card in the high end model.
This is a company that actually went out of it's way to be obnoxious
It would probably be more accurate to say that they unbundled a standard $100/4GB chunk from what would otherwise be an 8GB lineup, to give them a 4GB/$499 pricepoint they otherwise wouldn't have. In some ways it is less than it seems, since they could have offered a 4GB version of the $699 machine for $100 less, and people wouldn't lose the performance difference between the 4260U and 4278U i5s. Presumably Apple is generating a little extra juice representing whatever price difference they get from Intel between the two (nominally equal-priced) chips.
This is the wrong way of looking at it. What you are trying to estimate is Apple's markup over their cost for memory upgrades. Using Amazon as a rough proxy of street price FOB customer, name-brand DDR3-1600 seems to run $70-$85 for 8GB, or $9-10/GB. So after eliminating whatever retail margins that includes, and accounting for Apple's massive pricing power and that they are buying raw chips (although there might be a premium for LPDDR3), what might Apple's cost be? $8/GB? Less? In any case, they are charging $25/GB for it, so say 200% markup just for fun. Obviously some of that is going to boost their total returns given a fairly reasonable base price, but still...
It would be fascinating to know their basic costs without memory/storage. Assume a somewhat arbitrary $300 for all the rest - guts (including the 1.4GHz base chip)/case/packaging/ - delivered to the customer. You can then (with a couple being somewhat notional) price the add ons to that base (given the BTO pricing). $100 for the 500GB drive, $100/4GB for memory upgrades, $50 for 500GB-1TB HDD upgrade, $200 for 128GB PCIe SSD, $350 for 256GB mSATA SSD ($650/$1150 for 512/1TB), $50 to go from i5-4260U -> 2.6Ghz i5-4278U or $150 for the 2.8Ghz, and $350 for the i7.
Everything there would seem to represent at least 100-150% or more markup to Apple's cost. Some of that high number compensates for little or no profit on that arbitrary $300 number for the memory/storage-free base, and the markups are nothing new, but now they are imposing a 100% take-up rate for memory, and increasing the 3rd-party nuisance factor for storage upgrades.
For me, the disappointing thing is the lack of more BTO configurability. I'd love to be able to build a 8GB base unit with no HDD and just the 128GB SSD. The above pricing would put that at $700, and it would make a nice little dual-monitor programmer's setup, but the closest I can get is $850 for a Fusion config.
WTH? Of course he can use the warranty Just slap the Apple OEM parts back in and go to an Apple store.
The way you avoid problems with 3rd party components is by testing them at the time of install. Use memtest for RAM. SSDs and HDDs are generally reliable and if they go the signs are obvious and he has backups anyways.
Extended warranties are ripoffs, never buy them.
Above all, resist the belief that Apple uses magic parts.
Thanks for the word salad, but if you had a point other than intended slights, it escapes me.
To quote Nice Peter who played Steve Jobs in their very productive Epic Rap Battles of History series, "Now excuse me while I turn Heaven a profit."
(See how quoting that didn't add anything to the conversation? Keep it in mind for next time.)