If Verstappen had not started, that would have been one of the dullest races in recent memory. It was so dull I watched it on my iPad and my daughter watched 'Finding Nemo'.
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2015 Formula 1 Thread
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Let's just say I am down to 22% on my iPhone 6 and I think you get the idea.
i enjoyed it. some good stuff from the back markers. felt bad that williams had no answer for ferrari.
wThe top 10 stats kind of speak for themselves:
No change in the podium to the grid positions, only the 2 Lotus's making any real ground up based purely on the engine they have. Everyone outside the top 4 positions lapped. I still look forward to watching in the hope that me might get a race for podium places, but it seems less and less likely each race.
The 'sport' needs a serious rethink and soon!
Code:
1 Nico Rosberg Mercedes 1 1:14.957 1:31:09.090 25
2 Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 2 1:14.832 +0:07.756 18
3 Sebastian Vettel Ferrari 3 1:15.046 +0:14.244 15
4 Kimi Raikkonen Ferrari 4 1:15.416 +0:47.543 12
5 Valtteri Bottas Williams 7 1:16.039 Lapped 10
6 Nico Hulkenberg Force India 5 1:16.774 Lapped 8
7 Daniil Kvyat Red Bull 6 1:16.500 Lapped 6
8 Romain Grosjean Lotus 14 1:15.739 Lapped 4
9 Max Verstappen Toro Rosso 9 1:15.972 Lapped 2
10 Pastor Maldonado Lotus 15 1:16.354 Lapped 1No change in the podium to the grid positions, only the 2 Lotus's making any real ground up based purely on the engine they have. Everyone outside the top 4 positions lapped. I still look forward to watching in the hope that me might get a race for podium places, but it seems less and less likely each race.
The 'sport' needs a serious rethink and soon!
Brazil was always going to highlight the horsepower + recovery systems disparity that exists in F1. Accelerating from the final turn through the main straight became a formality of technology. Raikkonen's comments that the race was boring sums it all up.
Lewis has been feeling the heat lately! I'm not really a Lewis fan or hater. I thought over the past 2 years, he cleaned up his attitude and became more appealing to fans worldwide. In that regard, he impressed me. Now it seems like he's slipping back to the same Lewis that's just a bit too cocky. The Monaco incident was puzzling. When the seasons over, go party. The comments about the other drivers though - can't see them being received well.
http://www.grandprix247.com/2015/11/19/hamilton-has-a-jab-at-vettel-webber-and-raikkonen/
http://www.grandprix247.com/2015/11/19/hamilton-has-a-jab-at-vettel-webber-and-raikkonen/
I think reading that it depends how sensitive the reader is. His comments about Vettel, Webber and Raikkonen were perhaps unnecessary but few would argue they are untrue. Whether or not he is as good as he thinks he is I think is open to debate.
I like lewis the driver but away from the track he can be a bit of a div. I still think he is arguably the best driver on the grid after Fernando, but that is just my impression.
Current drivers
Alonso, Lewis or Vettel would probably all win the Championship in a Merc.
One to watch for the future Max Vostrapen for sure. He's probably the most entertaining on the track at the moment.
Alonso, Lewis or Vettel would probably all win the Championship in a Merc.
One to watch for the future Max Vostrapen for sure. He's probably the most entertaining on the track at the moment.
ANYONE would win a championship if they were in a Mercedes ....except for Malfunctionado. He'd find some way to wipe out a few drivers in the process, and blame it on his, quote, "big balls" (again).
He has tons of fans who bring tons of money, but Lewis isn't the great driver his fans say he is. he's good, but he's hardly great. 2 titles in a car as good as the Silver Arrows doesn't have the same ring to it. Disagree with me if you love him to pieces, but I seriously think you could put an 18 year old (guess who) in Rosberg's car and Hamilton would struggle. And have a snit in the process.
Good drivers are the type like Jenson - bad car, bad engine, hangs back for a lap or two while the two in front of him are fighting and then he nips both on one turn. He's done that a few times this year - with Honda power no less. He's always friendly and he's always positive - he's a sportsman first, and a driver second. He's noted for driving smooth and not making mistakes... something he's been doing for years. It's a shame he hasn't been able to get a good shake lately, it really is. Ricciardo, Vettel, Alonso, JB, and - petulant little brat that he is - Verstappen seem to be in a different class. I'd put Hakkinenen in there too, a 'League of His Own' driver, but obviously he's long out of F1.
I think reading that it depends how sensitive the reader is. His comments about Vettel, Webber and Raikkonen were perhaps unnecessary but few would argue they are untrue. Whether or not he is as good as he thinks he is I think is open to debate.
I like lewis the driver but away from the track he can be a bit of a div. I still think he is arguably the best driver on the grid after Fernando, but that is just my impression.
Lewis doesn't know how to handle not winning, and that's what keeps him out of any objective list of top drivers. He's cocky and arrogant - his remarks might be true but can you imagine his reaction if other drivers called him out for his behavior?
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I think if being cocky and arrogant stops a driver being classed as top tier, then we haven't had a top driver win since 2009. Personally I don't think any driver is completely modest. It sort of goes with the territory to have an ego and lewis and Vettel are possibly the biggest egos on the grid at present. That's no bad thing though. It shows a hunger and determination to be the best, even at others expense. Plenty of champions have been like that and get immortalised for it when they die.
I don't think I need to imagine too much how lewis reacts when people make comments. We've seen plenty of that in the past and it doesn't bother me to be honest.
A funny thing I noticed which is a little off topic is that Lewis Hamilton uses a Rose Gold iPhone 6S instead of a sponsored Blackberry lol. He only carries the Blackberry at GP weekends it seems.
Well, see, Vettel actually doesn't have such a big ego - off track he goes home and keeps a relatively low profile; asshat Ecclestone has even complained that he "wasn't a good champion" because he doesn't do press events and toss himself around in the public eye. Lewis is good, no doubt, but me personally I wouldn't say he's in the top five of the current drivers. Raikkonen can be super when he wants to be; unfortunately he doesn't seem to want to be very often. If Lewis had Vettel, Alonso, or Ricciardo for company he'd be noticeably overwhelmed.
But I try to call a spade a spade - nepotism from the marshals and team managers is hugely damaging to my opinion of the sport.
There's a difference between being arrogant and being hungry.
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I guess I rate Hamilton a lot higher than you do and I also remember the pre F1 days when Vettel and he were closely matched in ability. I would say Alonso is the best F1 driver on the current grid with lewis not so far behind. I struggle to take anybody seriously that suggests Hamilton doesn't even make the top 5, sorry.Well, see, Vettel actually doesn't have such a big ego - off track he goes home and keeps a relatively low profile; asshat Ecclestone has even complained that he "wasn't a good champion" because he doesn't do press events and toss himself around in the public eye. Lewis is good, no doubt, but me personally I wouldn't say he's in the top five of the current drivers. Raikkonen can be super when he wants to be; unfortunately he doesn't seem to want to be very often. If Lewis had Vettel, Alonso, or Ricciardo for company he'd be noticeably overwhelmed.
But I try to call a spade a spade - nepotism from the marshals and team managers is hugely damaging to my opinion of the sport.
There's a difference between being arrogant and being hungry.
I agree Lewis is a bit of a tool away from the track but I have no interest in a champions private life. That isn't what their ability is judged on and I can't entertain a discussion where a driver slips out of the top 5 because somebody doesn't like him or the way he lives his life away from F1.
Ah, well, it's the internet so common sense is second fiddle to opinion....
....or is it opinion is second fiddle to opinion? I forget.
It's also why I rarely discuss F1 on the Internet any more. F1 discussion is much better in the pub where nobody admits to disliking a driver or team. It's much more measured, but then again if anybody claimed Hamilton didn't make the top 5 in the pub, the taxi would be ordered and the landlord would be chucking their coat out the door.Ah, well, it's the internet so common sense is second fiddle to opinion....
....or is it opinion is second fiddle to opinion? I forget.
See? Opinions > Common Sense. Works like a charm.
I've followed F1 off and on for years, so perhaps I have a more broad perspective. The fact is, you can't accurately judge skill when a driver has a dominant car - you have to look at how drivers can do in different cars and different conditions. Jenson >x10 Hamilton, because I've seen Jenson drive phenomenally well in various conditions, and do well with both good and bad cars, and for different teams. Not getting a good car or not having the most fans doesn't make him less of a driver. Same with Alonso; Vettel is a mixed bag since he's had a dominant or semi-decent car right along.I guess that was my point about sportsmanship - if Jenson loses, he's positive and civil; Hamilton cannot tolerate not winning and even throws out absurd excuses and blame games. It's like a two midgets fighting - one has an Iron Man suit and other has a broken leg, and people go "Oh, Iron Man midget has such skill! Such prowess! He's awesome!" When in fact, no, it just means he's a midget with a better suit.
But again, looking back on 20 years of F1 is just my opinion.
Why does watching F1 off and on for years give you a broad perspective? It's no different for me except I've probably being watching over a longer period.See? Opinions > Common Sense. Works like a charm.
I guess that was my point about sportsmanship - if Jenson loses, he's positive and civil; Hamilton cannot tolerate not winning and even throws out absurd excuses and blame games. It's like a two midgets fighting - one has an Iron Man suit and other has a broken leg, and people go "Oh, Iron Man midget has such skill! Such prowess! He's awesome!" When in fact, no, it just means he's a midget with a better suit.
But again, looking back on 20 years of F1 is just my opinion.
People get too caught up in trying to find fault in drivers characters and forget to enjoy the racing. Jenson is a great ambassador for the sport but sadly his personality and consistent performances have not made him a multiple WDC. Choice and timing plays a significant role but we saw him against Hamilton and Lewis came out on top except for one year.
I don't want to go down the route of playing drivers off against each other though as I don't need that. It doesn't make any difference to my enjoyment of the sport.
Part of the like and dislike for the current crop of drivers comes from the exposure.
When I started watching F1 in the 80's you didn't have radio from the drivers as they raced. You didn't have 2 hours after the race for commentary on the tv. You didn't have the Internet so you knew exactly what they were doing 24/7.
Lewis to my mind is working on a long term strategy. His popularity around the globe is bringing fans go the sport.
Is he the best racer or happy when he loses? Probably not. But then Nico (who should have been on Lewis's heels all season) is hardly an inspiration when he isn't winning.
Vettel is just happy that he has a chance at Ferrari over the last years at RBR. Remember how he was with Webber? Not happy to play second fiddle, even when there were team orders.
When I started watching F1 in the 80's you didn't have radio from the drivers as they raced. You didn't have 2 hours after the race for commentary on the tv. You didn't have the Internet so you knew exactly what they were doing 24/7.
Lewis to my mind is working on a long term strategy. His popularity around the globe is bringing fans go the sport.
Is he the best racer or happy when he loses? Probably not. But then Nico (who should have been on Lewis's heels all season) is hardly an inspiration when he isn't winning.
Vettel is just happy that he has a chance at Ferrari over the last years at RBR. Remember how he was with Webber? Not happy to play second fiddle, even when there were team orders.
See? Opinions > Common Sense. Works like a charm.
I guess that was my point about sportsmanship - if Jenson loses, he's positive and civil; Hamilton cannot tolerate not winning and even throws out absurd excuses and blame games. It's like a two midgets fighting - one has an Iron Man suit and other has a broken leg, and people go "Oh, Iron Man midget has such skill! Such prowess! He's awesome!" When in fact, no, it just means he's a midget with a better suit.
But again, looking back on 20 years of F1 is just my opinion.
jenson is in a really cool commercial with mika hakkinen and jude law too...
Don't think anyone doubts Jenson's driving ability, but he lacks the ruthless streak needed to win multiple world titles and therefore to be considered a truly great driver. Yes, he's won a world championship, but only because his car was miles ahead of the competition. You could say the same of Hamilton, although he also won a championship with McLaren.
All that said, I'd love to see Verstapen take Rosbergs seat for next year as I think he's wipe the floor with Hamilton
All that said, I'd love to see Verstapen take Rosbergs seat for next year as I think he's wipe the floor with Hamilton
I don't think Nico is really a standard for any driver, honestly. He lacks the mental and emotional stamina. Maybe because he has a life outside of driving? Perhaps. But I will give you that you can't compare Lewis with Nico. When Nico has the anger and determination, he's good enough to hold Hamilton off - but he doesn't seem to be able to maintain the psychological edge.
You can't measure skill based on long-term career drive, though. Here's me off on my soapbox again, but let's swap roles: If Lewis was in a McLaren he'd be having snits and tantrums right and left ("Monaco" incidents at every race, yay!); I honestly think he'd be worse than Maldonado. Is it having a level of arrogance when you drive the best car that makes you "great," or is it never giving up on being positive even when you have crap? Like I say, we've never seen Lewis in a bad car - so a huge portion of his "skill" is logically neutered.
Lewis fan: "Lewis won again! Yeah, Hammer Time he's invincible!"
Logical fan: "But he has the best car."
Lewis fan:"Yeah but he's such a great driver!"
Logical fan:"How do you know that?"
Lewis fan:"'Cuz he wins all the time. Yeah! Hammer Time!"
Logical fan:"But he has the best car..."
Lewis fan: "But he's better than Nico! Hammer Time!"
Logical fan: "So is Alonso, Verstappen, Massa, Vettel, Button, Ricciardo, Bottas...."
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Does your friend Logical fan also acknowledge that Hamilton matched Alonso in the same car in his very first season in F1?
Personally, I think he's in the top 3 of the current crop alongside Alonso and Vettel but I've only been watching F1 since James Hunt won the championship in 1976 so what do I know.
Pretty sure one year Lewis drove a lemon at McLaren. Year after he won the championship if I recall correctly.
I'm no Vettel fan, but it's interesting how the best drivers always end up with the best cars.
A lot of that is to do with the feedback they give the engineers.
I think Button and Alonso are handling their situation with a lot of dignity.
I'd have lost my rag by now.
The irony of taking the mick out if biased fans eh? lol
You don't like Hamilton we get it. That doesn't mean his ability is not seen by everybody else
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