2015 Formula 1 Thread

[CWallace]

Pretty sure one year Lewis drove a lemon at McLaren. Year after he won the championship if I recall correctly.

He arguably should have won the WDC in his rookie year (2007 with McLaren), but at China he wore out his tires so he slid off into the gravel at pit end, costing him the race (and, eventually, the championship, to Kimi at the next and final race in Brazil).

He also almost lost it in 2008 except for the Timo Glock staying out on dry weather tires as the rain fell allowing Lewis to pass him in the last corner of the last lap at Brazil to take 5th place, which was enough to put him over Massa for the title.

 

[OllyW]

He arguably should have won the WDC in his rookie year (2007 with McLaren), but he ignored team orders to come in at China and wore out his tires so he slid off into the gravel at pit end, costing him the race (and, eventually, the championship, to Kimi at the next and final race in Brazil).

He also almost lost it in 2008 except for the Timo Glock staying out on dry weather tires as the rain fell allowing Lewis to pass him in the last corner of the last lap at Brazil to take 5th place, which was enough to put him over Massa for the title.

I think your memory is a bit out because it was a McLaren team error that cost him the race in China. They told him to stay out on the worn tyres and called him in too late only after Kimi had caught and passed Lewis to take the lead.

 

[Apple fanboy]

He arguably should have won the WDC in his rookie year (2007 with McLaren), but at China he wore out his tires so he slid off into the gravel at pit end, costing him the race (and, eventually, the championship, to Kimi at the next and final race in Brazil).

He also almost lost it in 2008 except for the Timo Glock staying out on dry weather tires as the rain fell allowing Lewis to pass him in the last corner of the last lap at Brazil to take 5th place, which was enough to put him over Massa for the title.

I don't think Alonso helped much in 2007!

 

[randian]

Why would Alonso screw his teammate to help Kimi?

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

He arguably should have won the WDC in his rookie year (2007 with McLaren), but at China he wore out his tires so he slid off into the gravel at pit end, costing him the race (and, eventually, the championship, to Kimi at the next and final race in Brazil).

He also almost lost it in 2008 except for the Timo Glock staying out on dry weather tires as the rain fell allowing Lewis to pass him in the last corner of the last lap at Brazil to take 5th place, which was enough to put him over Massa for the title.

He was a rookie in 2007 against the current double WDC. A very different driver lacking experience to what he is now. The call in China was also down to the team asking him to stay out longer. He did amazingly well in 2007, a year to be proud of for his debut.

In Brazil 2008 had Glock pitted for wet tyres Lewis would not have been out of position anyway. He would have been 4th even when he was overtaken by Vettel when Kubica unlapped himself. Both points you make fail to see the bigger picture. The Ferrari that year had more poles and fastest laps with many in the paddock suggesting it was the better car. It just had weaker drivers. Massa nearly got the championship but also got lucky in the pit lane when he nearly crashed into Sutil (escaped with a fine rather than a drive through). He also got lucky at Spa with the unusual stewards decision. Singapore was unfortunate for him.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Why would Alonso screw his teammate to help Kimi?

He didn't like his (then) teammate Lewis out performing him. Sour grapes basically.

 

[BenTrovato]

All these drivers have nearly equal talent nowadays. It's been that way for a while. Maybe some drivers can get more performance out of a certain setup or car like Alonso did with the Renault and it's curb hopping qualities but overall their abilities are on par leaving F1 to be all about the car as it has been for some time now. If you like one driver over the other, that's fine but it doesn't make sense to say Lewis is better than Vettel or vice versa.

 

[Melrose]

Does your friend Logical fan also acknowledge that Hamilton matched Alonso in the same car in his very first season in F1?

Personally, I think he's in the top 3 of the current crop alongside Alonso and Vettel but I've only been watching F1 since James Hunt won the championship in 1976 so what do I know.

James Hunt. James Hunt... who's he?

Spoiler

lol

I don't think Alonso helped much in 2007!

That was actually funny. Horribly unfair, but funny.

The irony of taking the mick out if biased fans eh? lol

You don't like Hamilton we get it. That doesn't mean his ability is not seen by everybody else

You're right, I'm wrong... having the best car makes you the best driver. You win, I lose.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

You're right, I'm wrong... having the best car makes you the best driver. You win, I lose.

Firstly a driver cannot win anything unless they have the right car package to back them up. Alonso's skill isn't going to compensate for the dog he is driving at present, and Lewis is making the best of the machinery available like nearly every champion before him.

Secondly not all drivers are capable of winning in the best car. We've had plenty of number 2 drivers from years past who couldn't get anywhere near.

So yes you are wrong. Having the best car does not make you the best driver, but it does enable the best drivers to shine.

 

[pachyderm]

meh! another race. isn't this season over yet?

 

[CWallace]

I think your memory is a bit out because it was a McLaren team error that cost him the race in China. They told him to stay out on the worn tyres and called him in too late only after Kimi had caught and passed Lewis to take the lead.

Yes, I know that is the official line now, but during the race I had the strong feeling that it was Lewis who did not want to come in. Not sure if they used to broadcast team calls back then or it was just the commentators who gave me that impression. Either way, the error was made and IMO it cost him the WDC that year.

 

[pachyderm]

make it end...

 

[tdale]

Yes, I know that is the official line now, but during the race I had the strong feeling that it was Lewis who did not want to come in. Not sure if they used to broadcast team calls back then or it was just the commentators who gave me that impression. Either way, the error was made and IMO it cost him the WDC that year.

Lewis has been complaining ever since Rosberg started winning. Every interview/comment is a complaint. he is just justifying that whenever he doesn't get what he wants, there is another reason. Embarrassing. Brundle notices as well

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Well thank goodness that season is over! Admittedly I've only watched 4 races in full with the rest skipped highlights but I can't remember such a dull season. Even my favourite driver getting his 3rd WDC wasn't enough to encourage me to regularly give up part of my Sunday. I honestly think after 33 years of watching F1 I am losing the love for it.

If the rumours are true and the BBC go down to full highlights or drop it altogether, i'll call it a day I think.

 

[Apple fanboy]

It was an okay race today. I enjoyed seeing Button scrapping at the back.
Well done to Nico for dominating. Pitty he couldn't put the wins in earlier in the season.
I thought the Alonso penalty was a bit harsh, but ultimately it made no difference.
So let's hope Ferrari start strong next season to make more of a contest.

 

[pachyderm]

yay it is over!

 

[BenTrovato]

Even the media is thankful it's over. F1 needs some help.. Half empty grandstands at most grand prix's. Ratings are diving. It's really bad right now. Today's race was like watching paint dry.

 

[pachyderm]

on the upside though, at least according to all the crowd shots i saw, the half full part was mostly really beautiful women...

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Even the media is thankful it's over. F1 needs some help.. Half empty grandstands at most grand prix's. Ratings are diving. It's really bad right now. Today's race was like watching paint dry.

Dull racing and coverage placed behind paywalls has drastically sent the sport into free fall. I have Sky and even I find myself not bothering with it. The BBC did a great job in the uk and unfortunately greed went before the long term. It's the same across Europe and Bernie is yet to admit he's made a grave error.

The quick cash has created a problem that will now take years to fix.

 

[BenTrovato]

Dull racing and coverage placed behind paywalls has drastically sent the sport into free fall. I have Sky and even I find myself not bothering with it. The BBC did a great job in the uk and unfortunately greed went before the long term. It's the same across Europe and Bernie is yet to admit he's made a grave error.

The quick cash has created a problem that will now take years to fix.

It's true. Bernie has been messing things up for a while. You know what.. as I read your message, it triggered a thought. F1 (for now) still attracts the worlds top racing talent, although I'm sure even that could be argued. However, the sport has failed miserably to provide a platform for the worlds top drivers to compete fairly and I think that's almost a crime. Hamilton, Vettel, Button, Alonso, Raikkonen and Rosberg is the only driver who can challenge for the past two years and again next season. Before that we had Vettel with Alonso challenging here and there. I don't think this is a sport anymore. It seems like it's professional drivers taking turns in the most powerful car every 3-4 years while collecting 20 million dollar paychecks.

If you look at what the sports leagues do in North America, for example, is they continuously try to even out the playing field even though some teams and cities have a lot more money. Whether it's revenue sharing, salary caps, or players unions. It's time for F1 to come into the modern age.

 

[Apple fanboy]

It's true. Bernie has been messing things up for a while. You know what.. as I read your message, it triggered a thought. F1 (for now) still attracts the worlds top racing talent, although I'm sure even that could be argued. However, the sport has failed miserably to provide a platform for the worlds top drivers to compete fairly and I think that's almost a crime. Hamilton, Vettel, Button, Alonso, Raikkonen and Rosberg is the only driver who can challenge for the past two years and again next season. Before that we had Vettel with Alonso challenging here and there. I don't think this is a sport anymore. It seems like it's professional drivers taking turns in the most powerful car every 3-4 years while collecting 20 million dollar paychecks.

If you look at what the sports leagues do in North America, for example, is they continuously try to even out the playing field even though some teams and cities have a lot more money. Whether it's revenue sharing, salary caps, or players unions. It's time for F1 to come into the modern age.

Have you ever watched one of the better matched series like Formula Ford? With the cars all very similar, it doesn't make for more exciting racing.
The sport has always been dominated by one or two teams.
The McLaren Honda's of the 80's were awesome.
The Williams Renult was unstoppable.
If you put each driver in the Mercedes and put them out there would it be more interesting? I'm not sure.
It's up to the teams lagging behind to make up the ground. No team or engine dominates for very long. All the teams moan about it except when it's their car that's doing it!
Lack on in season testing is hurting the sport. If you start with a lemon, it's almost impossible to make leaps and strides. So that means we will have a pretty good idea who will be winning in 2016 from the first race.

 

[BenTrovato]

Have you ever watched one of the better matched series like Formula Ford? With the cars all very similar, it doesn't make for more exciting racing.
The sport has always been dominated by one or two teams.
The McLaren Honda's of the 80's were awesome.
The Williams Renult was unstoppable.
If you put each driver in the Mercedes and put them out there would it be more interesting? I'm not sure.
It's up to the teams lagging behind to make up the ground. No team or engine dominates for very long. All the teams moan about it except when it's their car that's doing it!
Lack on in season testing is hurting the sport. If you start with a lemon, it's almost impossible to make leaps and strides. So that means we will have a pretty good idea who will be winning in 2016 from the first race.

Well the difference between the 70's, 80's, and 90's compared to today is that the reliability has increased ten fold. When they had more mechanical issues in the past, it opened the door for other teams and drivers that had no business winning, to win races. The problem with the current formula is that nobody has a chance to catch up until the formula changes every 4-5 years. It's very obvious if you know anything about F1 that next year, nobody has a chance of competing against Mercedes. Absolutely zero chance. If for some reason you think that in 2016 another team will have a chance, let me help you out here --> nobody else has a chance. http://planetf1.com/news/horner-doubts-merc-reign-will-end-in-2016/

That is a huge problem. Ferrari has the most money and what they will do, is blow away everyone in second place. They are considered the only threat and this is the second best marketing strategy to actually winning. They may take a race victory or two and get the media attention but that's it and it's not fair to the other teams who don't have the budget. The "sport" now becomes about a financial model and only about a financial model and that's when sport suffers because the product is terrible. I get that the 80's and 90's were exciting and watching Honda and Renault dominate was great but times have changed. Reliability is better and there's no more error. The sport, if you want to call it that, is in really bad shape and it's been painfully obvious for the past decade.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Well the difference between the 70's, 80's, and 90's compared to today is that the reliability has increased ten fold. When they had more mechanical issues in the past, it opened the door for other teams and drivers that had no business winning, to win races. The problem with the current formula is that nobody has a chance to catch up until the formula changes every 4-5 years. It's very obvious if you know anything about F1 that next year, nobody has a chance of competing against Mercedes. Absolutely zero chance. If for some reason you think that in 2016 another team will have a chance, let me help you out here --> nobody else has a chance. http://planetf1.com/news/horner-doubts-merc-reign-will-end-in-2016/

That is a huge problem. Ferrari has the most money and what they will do, is blow away everyone in second place. They are considered the only threat and this is the second best marketing strategy to actually winning. They may take a race victory or two and get the media attention but that's it and it's not fair to the other teams who don't have the budget. The "sport" now becomes about a financial model and only about a financial model and that's when sport suffers because the product is terrible. I get that the 80's and 90's were exciting and watching Honda and Renault dominate was great but times have changed. Reliability is better and there's no more error. The sport, if you want to call it that, is in really bad shape and it's been painfully obvious for the past decade.

I'm not sure Alonso thinks reliability is better
But yes I agree unless the two Mercedes boys split the victories between them and Vettel and Ferrari have a blinding season, it's very unlikely that anyone other than them will win the Championship.
Reliability has taken away some of the fun.
More so managing tyres, managing fuel and managing engines.
To make the sport more fun remove Eco engine modes, give points for qualifying as well as racing and stop all the stupid penalties.

 

[pachyderm]

i'd like, or i think i'd like, the downforce rules to be changed to allow for better/more drafting.
i like the cars sticking to the road but i also like it when you can draft from almost anywhere on the track and and not have a special device to help you do it.

 

[randian]

Is there a 2016 thread yet?