2016-17 MBPs should be called MacBook Air. Apple killed our beloved and functional MBP line

hajime

macrumors 603
Original poster
Jul 23, 2007
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Hello, got a MBP 2017 13" yesterday. The display is beautiful but overall I don't like it. First, the keyboard is not comfortable to use. Then, I needed to add an ugly big adapter to connect to the the display. Next, I could not find an usb port to connect a dongle for external keyboard. I guess adding all these adapter makes the overall laptop clumsy, heavier and more ugly looking. The current MBP should be pat of the MBA. Apple really scre*wed our MBP. JI mentioned that he listens to our complains and we hope that Apple would bring us a better keyboard next month. How likely will they put back usb and display ports back to the laptop without needing us to get those adapters? What they are doing is scramming us to spend money on products that should have included. They changed their product line for people who prefer eye candy over functionality.

I guess I have wasted over 2.5 years waiting for nothing. Considering to buy a laptop from Lenovo or HP and do Hackintosh. Anybody has been and happy with this route?
 

jlc1978

macrumors 68030
Aug 14, 2009
2,841
1,158
How likely will they put back usb and display ports back to the laptop without needing us to get those adapters?
No chance. Apple has historically has not reintroduced a port or device such as a DVD drive once tehy have removed it from a product line. USB-C is the future until a new port comes out. I have been holding of on a purchase since I have a lot of USB/DP devices and don't want to bu a bunch of dongles.

I guess I have wasted over 2.5 years waiting for nothing. Considering to buy a laptop from Lenovo or HP and do Hackintosh. Anybody has been and happy with this route?
If you want to transition to Windows, Lenovo and HP make some nice machines. I had a work issued HP and it was a solid machine. As for a Hackintosh, unless you like to tinker and can live with quirks I'd avoid that route; you'd just trade one set of frustrations for another.
 

TiggrToo

macrumors 68030
Aug 24, 2017
2,837
5,986
Out there...way out there
Hello, got a MBP 2017 13" yesterday. The display is beautiful but overall I don't like it. First, the keyboard is not comfortable to use. Then, I needed to add an ugly big adapter to connect to the the display. Next, I could not find an usb port to connect a dongle for external keyboard. I guess adding all these adapter makes the overall laptop clumsy, heavier and more ugly looking. The current MBP should be pat of the MBA. Apple really scre*wed our MBP. JI mentioned that he listens to our complains and we hope that Apple would bring us a better keyboard next month. How likely will they put back usb and display ports back to the laptop without needing us to get those adapters? What they are doing is scramming us to spend money on products that should have included. They changed their product line for people who prefer eye candy over functionality.

I guess I have wasted over 2.5 years waiting for nothing. Considering to buy a laptop from Lenovo or HP and do Hackintosh. Anybody has been and happy with this route?
Post 2014? What about the 2015 MBP?
 

Falhófnir

macrumors 601
Aug 19, 2017
4,657
5,168
I certainly think the need for the ‘pro’ differentiator is not there any more, they could call the whole line just MacBooks now - maybe save the ‘pro’ moniker for an iMac Pro type future showcase machine (laptop formfactor of course)
 

sputnikBA

macrumors 6502
Jan 2, 2018
275
366
How likely will they put back usb and display ports back to the laptop without needing us to get those adapters?
As @jlc1978 says, the chance is very low. USB-C & TB3 are better ports for the future and Apple has a history of abandoning older standards to... "encourage" adoption of newer ones. They now see USB-A as a legacy port.

Its tough for now but over time more devices will support it. If you desperately need support for old peripherals, rather than buy a bunch of adaptors, I would recommend just buying a single dock. Then in future as you buy newer stuff, just buy the USB-C equivalent.

Considering to buy a laptop from Lenovo or HP and do Hackintosh. Anybody has been and happy with this route?
I've been looking into this as an option... and I'm just gonna say I decided that it wasn't worth it. Anyone who really wants to go the hackintosh route is better off building a desktop hack than trying to make a laptop hack. That way you can pick a list of parts that you know other people have tried and found fixes for.

Also general advice -- Anyone who is thinking of making any Hackintosh should spend A LOT of time at https://www.tonymacx86.com, and I mean A LOT OF TIME. Read through as much of the tutorials, recommendations, and support request threads as you can (especially after an OS update comes out and breaks some compatibility)... and decide if thats really what you want. Some might enjoy the work and tinkering, and others might want to invest their time elsewhere.
 
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chabig

macrumors 604
Sep 6, 2002
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Hello, got a MBP 2017 13" yesterday. The display is beautiful but overall I don't like it. First, the keyboard is not comfortable to use...
You’ve had it one day!
[doublepost=1526133803][/doublepost]
The display is beautiful but overall I don't like it. First, the keyboard is not comfortable to use.
I guess you didn’t notice that the machine has a display already attached (and connected internally)?
[doublepost=1526133872][/doublepost]
Next, I could not find an usb port to connect a dongle for external keyboard.
It also has a keyboard built in and “attached” but if you need a USB port, there are four of them—two on each side.
 
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maflynn

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Staff member
May 3, 2009
66,935
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Boston
and I'm just gonna say I decided that it wasn't worth it
Let me add that I don't believe its worth it regardless if want a desktop or laptop and need the machine to do work. If the hackintosh is going to be functioning as your work computer then there are safer/better solutions.
 
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hajime

macrumors 603
Original poster
Jul 23, 2007
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Return it.

Given the high cost of these machines, if you're not pleased with it, why keep it. Find another product that you like.
Thanks. The sales suggested me to use it and return it in 14 days and get the new one in June. I did not talk about the possible release in June but he mentioned about it first himself. The MBP 2017 looks very clumsy with that big TV adapter. I don't want to use it for another 13 days. That is enough for me. I shall return it this week. If I damage it accidentally, I won't be able to get a refund.

Now I worry that I may not be happy about the MBP 2018 if the keyboard and ports situation remind. I think the Air still has USB port but the computer is out dated.
[doublepost=1526135459][/doublepost]
You’ve had it one day!
[doublepost=1526133803][/doublepost]
I guess you didn’t notice that the machine has a display already attached (and connected internally)?
[doublepost=1526133872][/doublepost]
It also has a keyboard built in and “attached” but if you need a USB port, there are four of them—two on each side.
I cannot plug in the Logitech usb dongle to those four ports.
[doublepost=1526135544][/doublepost]Why Apple does not make a nice port replicator for the MBP? I recalled that about 25 years ago, I had a powerbook 280c with a docking station.
 
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sputnikBA

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Jan 2, 2018
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Thanks. The sales suggested me to use it and return it in 14 days and get the new one in June. I did not talk about the possible release in June but he mentioned about it first himself.
Btw "June" is more than 14 days away anyway, but the most likely launch is at WWDC on the 4th of June. Make sure you don't leave your return too late.
 

turbineseaplane

macrumors 603
Mar 19, 2008
6,157
9,151
Definitely get your money off the table and see what they do.

My expectations on this are very low.

I think they will spec bump the existing designs and maybe further, very subtly, tweak the underlying switch situation, but not in a major way that changes how it feels, the noise it makes, the key travel - none of that.

They will not acknowledge those with KB issues, complaints, frustrations, repairs - it's just now how Apple rolls (very very frustrating at times). They will soldier on for another year or 2 (or 3!) until it's time for a full redesign.

In fact - if the ARM Mac thing is true, I predict we will only see a fully new MacBook Pro design that probably changes the keyboards again and hopefully fixes the issues, when those ARM MBP's are a reality.

So we may really be looking at 2020 or so honestly.
 

sputnikBA

macrumors 6502
Jan 2, 2018
275
366
They will not acknowledge those with KB issues, complaints, frustrations, repairs - it's just now how Apple rolls (very very frustrating at times). They will soldier on for another year or 2 (or 3!) until it's time for a full redesign.
I think there will be a fix, but they won't cover it in any detail as a"fix", just mention it as a "improved 3rd generation butterfly keys" and move on to the next thing quickly.

When they announced the MBP in 2016 they did the same thing -- Phil Schiller mentioned "2nd generation butterfly kb" and then quickly changed the subject to the TouchBar. See at 04:27-04:54.
 

turbineseaplane

macrumors 603
Mar 19, 2008
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I think there will be a fix, but they won't cover it in any detail as a"fix", just mention it as a "improved 3rd generation butterfly keys" and move on to the next thing quickly.

When they announced the MBP in 2016 they did the same thing -- Phil Schiller mentioned "2nd generation butterfly kb" and then quickly changed the subject to the TouchBar. See at 04:27-04:54.
I agree with you..
You quoted me but omitted the part where I said I think they would tweak it subtly

I think they will spec bump the existing designs and maybe further, very subtly, tweak the underlying switch situation, but not in a major way that changes how it feels, the noise it makes, the key travel - none of that.
Basically I think they will do the absolute bare minimum to try to address the reliability but nothing more and will absolutely stop short of admitting any issue here.

That said - They may have no choice but to do more once all of these 2016/2017's are out of warranty and failing like crazy and the users are bearing the very high replacement cost.
 
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sputnikBA

macrumors 6502
Jan 2, 2018
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366
Sorry:
I think they will spec bump the existing designs and maybe further, very subtly, tweak the underlying switch situation, but not in a major way that changes how it feels, the noise it makes, the key travel - none of that.
I'm not disagreeing with what you said either, but they don't see any of these as an issue — only the increased fault/repair rates. That will be the only thing they feel needs to be addressed, and when they do so, it is very unlikely that it will be in an admission of failure (hence my other post)
 

turbineseaplane

macrumors 603
Mar 19, 2008
6,157
9,151
Sorry:

I'm not disagreeing with what you said either, but they don't see any of these as an issue — only the increased fault/repair rates. That will be the only thing they feel needs to be addressed, and when they do so, it is very unlikely that it will be in an admission of failure (hence my other post)
I agree.

To your point, they are just going to say "we've made it even better with 3rd gen" and we'll all roll our eyes and cross our fingers that they finally "fixed it" this time...hopefully...maybe...and check the forums for the first couple months after release and see.. lol

It's amazing how many other "really thin keyboards" exist in the laptop world, but only Apple has managed to make one that's so polarizing and flaky. It's really frustrating.
 

sublunar

macrumors 65816
Jun 23, 2007
1,356
799
I think second generation was in reference to 2016 retina MacBook Pro keyboards versus the original retina MacBook which came out the year before. Apple officially don’t distinguish between the 2016 and 2017 MacBook Pro keyboards even though there is evidence that they are different and external labelling on the keys enables at a glance for engineers to know which keyboard is on a specific model.

Note that there now a class action law suit against these keyboards in California.

A growing number of Apple journalists are adding to the pressure by writing about it too.

And there is now an Apple tech note suggesting the use of canned air to blow the dust from under affected keys.

Drastic action would mean a redesign of the line which might also address the expense of adding the touch bar. Less drastic action would be to carry on as though the mounting evidence of repair costs, bad PR and the class action suit doesn’t matter. Add a few shims to the keyboard, or gaskets...
 

hajime

macrumors 603
Original poster
Jul 23, 2007
6,063
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New products with issues. Slightly change things and call it an update or improvements. Customers continue to buy the next improved ones. Apple’s way of doing business under TC.
 
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sublunar

macrumors 65816
Jun 23, 2007
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There is talk of Apple updating the MacBook Air in some way and the i5-8250u cpu is the perfect upgrade for it. Some rumours have it delayed till October in time for college students and there may even be a retina screen in the offing but the keyboard and old usb 3 ports (and lack of pricey touchbar) will surely herald a stampede of purchases if it gets a quad core CPU.
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,364
15,505
New products with issues. Slightly change things and call it an update or improvements. Customers continue to buy the next improved ones. Apple’s way of doing business under TC.
You mean under capitalism right? The incremental change model is the modus operandi of the Tech sector, Apple is not an outlier. It’s how tens of billions of dollars worth of cars, appliances, athletic equipment, etc. are moved each year.
 

coolX

macrumors member
Apr 19, 2016
92
126
The only way to fix the MBP is to make it thicker. But Apple will never do this. So the product line is a non-starter.
 

TiggrToo

macrumors 68030
Aug 24, 2017
2,837
5,986
Out there...way out there
Hello, got a MBP 2017 13" yesterday. The display is beautiful but overall I don't like it. First, the keyboard is not comfortable to use. Then, I needed to add an ugly big adapter to connect to the the display. Next, I could not find an usb port to connect a dongle for external keyboard. I guess adding all these adapter makes the overall laptop clumsy, heavier and more ugly looking. The current MBP should be pat of the MBA. Apple really scre*wed our MBP. JI mentioned that he listens to our complains and we hope that Apple would bring us a better keyboard next month. How likely will they put back usb and display ports back to the laptop without needing us to get those adapters? What they are doing is scramming us to spend money on products that should have included. They changed their product line for people who prefer eye candy over functionality.

I guess I have wasted over 2.5 years waiting for nothing. Considering to buy a laptop from Lenovo or HP and do Hackintosh. Anybody has been and happy with this route?
Your thread title's still wrong: First it was "Post 2014 MBPs should be called MacBook Air' which you seemingly changed, and now it's '2015-2016...' - surely you mean the 2016-2017 MBPs?
 

Hanson Eigilson

macrumors regular
Sep 19, 2016
222
217
Hello, got a MBP 2017 13" yesterday. The display is beautiful but overall I don't like it. First, the keyboard is not comfortable to use. Then, I needed to add an ugly big adapter to connect to the the display. Next, I could not find an usb port to connect a dongle for external keyboard. I guess adding all these adapter makes the overall laptop clumsy, heavier and more ugly looking. The current MBP should be pat of the MBA. Apple really scre*wed our MBP. JI mentioned that he listens to our complains and we hope that Apple would bring us a better keyboard next month. How likely will they put back usb and display ports back to the laptop without needing us to get those adapters? What they are doing is scramming us to spend money on products that should have included. They changed their product line for people who prefer eye candy over functionality.

I guess I have wasted over 2.5 years waiting for nothing. Considering to buy a laptop from Lenovo or HP and do Hackintosh. Anybody has been and happy with this route?
I agree, and to add salt to the wound it feels like their flirting with very early planned obsolescence with the IOS11 slowdowns, IOS battery woes and designed mac keyboard failures. I wish I cloud do some type of mental gymnastics and attribute it all to accidents or incompetence and not feel like they are trying to scam people like us deeply invested in the ecosystem.
 
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