2016-17 MBPs should be called MacBook Air. Apple killed our beloved and functional MBP line

[Minato1990]

2015 Macbook pro is the last real Pro.
Everything else after this is crap.
Glad I got mine maxed because I don't intend on giving this baby up for a while

 

[giffut]

Yes, planned obsolence all the way. It´s so sad. I just realized that only mac OS and Logic X - but just barely - keep me still attached to the Apple universe. Sierra will be my latest mac OS at the moment. I already, unconsciously, started to reduce system/hardware dependencies.

After watching Louis Rossman´s short video history of Apple hardware failures, their is no other way to understand those design decisions than to keep the lifetime of those expensive products artificially limited and the customer to dearly pay for either a new machine or expensive pay for extended warranty/repair:

,

,

My Macbook Pro 15 2011 (16GB, 512GB SSD) will be my last Apple hardware. Only with DIY help from you, the community, was I able to keep it alive because of the dreaded DGPU failure (after two official repairs).

 

[Samuelsan2001]

I personally love the new machines thin light and more powerful with the highest bandwidth and most versatile I/O put on any laptop I also like the low travel keyboard. If only my 2013 wasn’t still running great and still more computer than I need i’d Have one in a heartbeat.

 

[ThunderSkunk]

the keyboard is not comfortable to use. Then, I needed to add an ugly big adapter to connect to the the display. all these adapter makes the overall laptop clumsy, heavier and more ugly looking. The current MBP should be pat of the MBA. Apple really scre*wed our MBP. How likely will they put back usb and display ports back to the laptop without needing us to get those adapters??

I actually prefer the MacBook Air to the MBPs for these reasons and a few others. The maxed out 13" MBA, with only 8GB of memory and only 2 lightweight cores, runs almost everything I do as well as my big workstations. Most applications still don't seem to take advantage of 4cores anyway, and the only thing hat doesn't run as well, 3D Modeling, actually does run just fine if I run it in boot camp utilizing the full resources of the machine, instead of splitting 16GB in half with parallels like I would on a MBP.

For its proven keyboard, ideal trackpad size, useful USB3 ports, MagSafe, fast charging, easy portability and pleasing size and shape, it's the most useful computer Apple makes, low-res display notwithstanding. When I'm in the office and want a high res display, I can plug one in. When I'm out in the field, and in chaotic conditions, I don't need it to be crazy high res. As far as I'm concerned, the mostly old and outdated MacBook Air IS the MacBook Pro.

 

[aevan]

Apple’s way of doing business under TC.

In this regard, exactly the same as under SJ.
[doublepost=1526425797][/doublepost]

I personally love the new machines thin light and more powerful with the highest bandwidth and most versatile I/O put on any laptop I also like the low travel keyboard. If only my 2013 wasn’t still running great and still more computer than I need i’d Have one in a heartbeat.

This laptops are divisive, and many reasons for that. Other than potential keyboard issues and price, I love them.

Some people just dislike them and that’s fine, though I can’t shake the feeling that there are those who are hating just to push a certain narrative that goes beyond the scope of these computers.

Anyway, really love mine, mostly because of some of the reasons others dislike them - like usb-c ports or the feel (not reliability) of the keyboard. Some people don’t like these things and I understand where they are coming from. As I said: a divisive device, especially on a tech forum like this one.

If they do a redesign influenced by the negative feedback though, I really hope they don’t decrease the size of the trackpad. Please, no. That thing is amazing.
[doublepost=1526426465][/doublepost]

After watching Louis Rossman´s short video history

Louis Rossman is a bitter dude and preachy, like Linus, he is simply in a different demographic than the one Apple is targeting and can’t seem to understand that. His video history of Apple failures is, basically, industry wide. Delicate, complex, super advanced devices that are made in such insane quantities to satisfy a market that literally goes crazy if they have to wait a week or two longer to get the new toy - do tend to break down occasionally and have many issues across a seemingly large, but (compared to the total number of units) insignificant number of devices. It’s like he confuses these devices to products hand-made by a bunch of dedicated, old-school engineers in small volumes.

 

[Hadron]

Good design and usability do go hand-in-hand, and they do with Apple products when the user actually uses them in the way that was intended. That is, when purchasing a computer with BT capabilities it just seems to make sense to go ahead and take advantage of being able to get rid of at least one cable by eliminating the need to plug in one's keyboard or mouse -- especially when there are a limited number of ports on the machine or if in order to plug something in an adapter is required.

Remember how the world reacted to "you're holding it wrong"...?

 

[comptr]

There is nothing wrong with the 2016-2017 MacBook Pros. I have owned quite a few MacBook Pros including both the 2016 & 2017 TB Models. I have had zero issues with the Keyboards and don't care that you can't upgrade them since my last MacBook Pro I upgraded was my 2009 MBP and since then I have never done any upgrades. I just buy my Macs with the specs I need. Whats the point in making them thicker like the older MBP's ?

 

[travelsheep]

USB-C ports handle everything now.

The only thing USB-C handles right now (and in the coming 5 years) is connecting to a multi-port dongle.

Around 2022 Apple will replace it with USB-X, which again will just connect to a multi-port. Or they will remove all ports and make the macbook wireless charge, in which case we'll see a whole lot of WLAN routers with port variety coming up.

 

[Cashmonee]

Good design and usability do go hand-in-hand, and they do with Apple products when the user actually uses them in the way that was intended. That is, when purchasing a computer with BT capabilities it just seems to make sense to go ahead and take advantage of being able to get rid of at least one cable by eliminating the need to plug in one's keyboard or mouse -- especially when there are a limited number of ports on the machine or if in order to plug something in an adapter is required. The OP was complaining because his Logitech devices and their "unifying device" can't be plugged in to a USB-A port on the new Apple computer he had just bought. Well, Apple didn't design the machine to be used with Logitech devices! Reality is that they designed it to be used either with the machine's own keyboard and trackpad or with Bluetooth external devices such as their own BT external keyboards and BT mice.

You can't be serious with this. Whether the user is "doing it right" or not, many of what would be considered the best keyboards on the market require USB-A connections, whether wireless or wired. The same is true for mice. While USB-C may be the future, the future has not arrived, and by most indications is not coming anytime soon. USB-A is taking a while to be phased out.

It saddens me that the MacBook Pro has been reduced to such a compromise of a machine all in the name of aesthetics. I do not find the new Macs (any of them) to be good design since good design should include form and function. Instead for Apple, thin is king. We lose ports, compatibility, battery, decent keyboard, etc all so the laptop can be thin and have a "clean" look. Why can we not have the MacBook be what it is, and then make the Pro a true pro machine with a great keyboard and ports that can work with all of the legacy devices present in most pro settings?

 

[hajime]

The only thing USB-C handles right now (and in the coming 5 years) is connecting to a multi-port dongle.

Around 2022 Apple will replace it with USB-X, which again will just connect to a multi-port. Or they will remove all ports and make the macbook wireless charge, in which case we'll see a whole lot of WLAN routers with port variety coming up.

Will Apple still be around by 2022?
[doublepost=1526440418][/doublepost]Apple should design products to adjust to the users' needs rather than the other way around as is happening.

 

[Samuelsan2001]

You can't be serious with this. Whether the user is "doing it right" or not, many of what would be considered the best keyboards on the market require USB-A connections, whether wireless or wired. The same is true for mice. While USB-C may be the future, the future has not arrived, and by most indications is not coming anytime soon. USB-A is taking a while to be phased out.

It saddens me that the MacBook Pro has been reduced to such a compromise of a machine all in the name of aesthetics. I do not find the new Macs (any of them) to be good design since good design should include form and function. Instead for Apple, thin is king. We lose ports, compatibility, battery, decent keyboard, etc all so the laptop can be thin and have a "clean" look. Why can we not have the MacBook be what it is, and then make the Pro a true pro machine with a great keyboard and ports that can work with all of the legacy devices present in most pro settings?

And I take the opposite view anything that is not using the latest tech (TB 3 and USB C) and the best performance in the smallest space is compromising on providing the most balanced product you can currently have. Apple have been committed to this balanced design philosophy for its portable devices for twenty years.

You haven’t lost ports you’ve gained bandwidth and versatility and portability, same goes for the keyboard. You haven’t lost F keys you’ve gained a truly versatile and customisable control panel. You haven’t lost upgradeability you’ve gained portability and battery life and reliability.

I know this view isn’t particularly popular here but hey Apple are still selling all their products like hot cakes so they must be doing a lot right for a lot of people.

 

[redkamel]

You can't be serious with this. Whether the user is "doing it right" or not, many of what would be considered the best keyboards on the market require USB-A connections, whether wireless or wired. The same is true for mice. While USB-C may be the future, the future has not arrived, and by most indications is not coming anytime soon. USB-A is taking a while to be phased out.

It saddens me that the MacBook Pro has been reduced to such a compromise of a machine all in the name of aesthetics. I do not find the new Macs (any of them) to be good design since good design should include form and function. Instead for Apple, thin is king. We lose ports, compatibility, battery, decent keyboard, etc all so the laptop can be thin and have a "clean" look. Why can we not have the MacBook be what it is, and then make the Pro a true pro machine with a great keyboard and ports that can work with all of the legacy devices present in most pro settings?

I partially agree with you. Apple designs their products well, but always cuts out the "old" ports and crap for the newest. I think with USB-C, they screwed up two ways: there was no "in between generation" where they had MBP with USB-C and USB-A, and they didn't sell a dock.

A lot of the connection complaints people have the MBP can be solved with $10 worth of cables. The rest can be solved with a hub, but Apple doesn't sell a well made hub. And they have been trying so hard to go to the single port (FW, thunderbolt) they they basically gave up and just went all in with USB-C. They dont even make an ACD for power users to buy they could double as a dock.

Imagine a cinema display with one TB USB-C port supplying power, display, and peripherals. What better way to show off the power of their single cable vision?

My other issue is really just poor differentiation of the lines. They should be trying to make the MacBook the thinnest, most portable laptop. 1-2 ports is fine for most people, and a touch bar would fit right in. The MBP should be the most powerful, accessible laptop (and it doesn't need a touch bar unless it takes off in the MB). It should have 32gb RAM, more ports, weigh a little more, have more battery. Give it 2 USB-C for charging/displays, 2 USBs and a card reader. And even though I thought the 17 inch was stupid, they should still make it...because they can, and because its the MBP.

Instead they are bringing their experimental choices to their most popular laptop model (bad idea) and trying to make it into something it never was (an ultraportable).

 

[duervo]

And I take the opposite view anything that is not using the latest tech (TB 3 and USB C) and the best performance in the smallest space is compromising on providing the most balanced product you can currently have. Apple have been committed to this balanced design philosophy for its portable devices for twenty years.

You haven’t lost ports you’ve gained bandwidth and versatility and portability, same goes for the keyboard. You haven’t lost F keys you’ve gained a truly versatile and customisable control panel. You haven’t lost upgradeability you’ve gained portability and battery life and reliability.

I know this view isn’t particularly popular here but hey Apple are still selling all their products like hot cakes so they must be doing a lot right for a lot of people.

So, this is my take-away from that ... The next “killer app” for the TB MBP’s will be one that allows users to map failed physical keys to the touchbar. Any user doing such things should thank Apple for making the touchbar.

 

[aevan]

Will Apple still be around by 2022?

Yes, there is a chance that the most profitable company in the world will perish in 4 years because some people on this forum think they should've added more ports to their computer and stuff.

 

[leman]

Will Apple still be around by 2022?
Apple should design products to adjust to the users' needs rather than the other way around as is happening.

Apple always did what they thought was the "right thing". Which is the main reason why they are the top of tech companies and why everybody else just copes what they do. They sell more Macs then ever every year, despite your "informed criticism".

Few of the thing people like you considered to be stupid but which changed the world of personal computing:

- mouse
- USB (first iMac was USB-only)
- removal of floppy disk
- business ultrabooks (MacBook Air with custom commissioned Intel CPU)
- HiDPI displays

 

[Ma2k5]

Will Apple still be around by 2022?

They will be around for at least 10 years still. I mean even Blackberry and Nokia are still alive.

 

[maflynn]

Will Apple still be around by 2022?

Dude really. I know you're hating apple now but really that's just hyperbole and nonsense.

My piece of advice is to be not be emotionally invested in a multibillion (almost trillion) dollar company. They make products and provide services, at times those things may not fit your needs. I don't look to see how an apple product can fit my needs, but rather what tool fits my needs. In many cases (but not all), Apple has something that imo is superior. You seem personally hurt and stung by the latest laptops from Apple. Its just a computer if the design/function doesn't work for you, return the laptop and find another that does.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I actually prefer the MacBook Air to the MBPs

The two things I really would miss are the Retina screen and Force Touch Trackpad.

In the Apple Store the other day on the Air, I realized how completely acclimated I've become to lightly clicking anywhere on the trackpad on the 2015 MBP - often times at the top with my thumb which easily slides down from space bar to the trackpad for a light click.

 

[aevan]

You can't be serious with this. Whether the user is "doing it right" or not, many of what would be considered the best keyboards on the market require USB-A connections, whether wireless or wired. The same is true for mice. While USB-C may be the future, the future has not arrived, and by most indications is not coming anytime soon. USB-A is taking a while to be phased out.

It saddens me that the MacBook Pro has been reduced to such a compromise of a machine all in the name of aesthetics. I do not find the new Macs (any of them) to be good design since good design should include form and function. Instead for Apple, thin is king. We lose ports, compatibility, battery, decent keyboard, etc all so the laptop can be thin and have a "clean" look. Why can we not have the MacBook be what it is, and then make the Pro a true pro machine with a great keyboard and ports that can work with all of the legacy devices present in most pro settings?

I would agree with your post if every “problem” you mentioned here couldn’t be solved really easy with a small adapter.

Do you remember the first iMac? Apple removed all legacy ports that were heavily used by Mac users and there were no adapters or any other way of using old devices. And there were even less USB devices for the Mac than there are USB-C devices today.

So, you get a lot of benefits with USB-C (a lot of devices already use them, most just need new cables) and every “compatibility” problem can be solved, most of them for as little as $10.

This is not a big compromise. It’s hardly a compromise at all, considering all the benefits. Compared to earlier times, like that of the original iMac, we have it easy. We’re just becoming a bit spoiled by technology, I think.

 

[hajime]

Dude really. I know you're hating apple now but really that's just hyperbole and nonsense.

My piece of advice is to be not be emotionally invested in a multibillion (almost trillion) dollar company. They make products and provide services, at times those things may not fit your needs. I don't look to see how an apple product can fit my needs, but rather what tool fits my needs. In many cases (but not all), Apple has something that imo is superior. You seem personally hurt and stung by the latest laptops from Apple. Its just a computer if the design/function doesn't work for you, return the laptop and find another that does.

Thanks. What suggestion do you have at this stage? Considering to get a Windows laptop and perhaps also Hackintosh it. However, I cannot find one that can drive 4K TV@60Hz. I guess I would need to go for those very heavy gaming laptops to get this feature. Some forum users also mentioned that it is hard and time consuming to maintain a Hackintosh. Don't know why even MBP 13" can do it but not most Windows laptops. Looks like I am stuck with Apple.

Shall I just do something else and check back to see if Apple is going to release a new MBP with the keyboard issue fixed?

 

[Cashmonee]

I would agree with your post if every “problem” you mentioned here couldn’t be solved really easy with a small adapter.

Do you remember the first iMac? Apple removed all legacy ports that were heavily used by Mac users and there were no adapters or any other way of using old devices. And there were even less USB devices for the Mac than there are USB-C devices today.

So, you get a lot of benefits with USB-C (a lot of devices already use them, most just need new cables) and every “compatibility” problem can be solved, most of them for as little as $10.

This is not a big compromise. It’s hardly a compromise at all, considering all the benefits. Compared to earlier times, like that of the original iMac, we have it easy. We’re just becoming a bit spoiled by technology, I think.

I simply do not agree that dongles are an appropriate solution here. The problem has become that every Apple device needs dongles. That is not an elegant solution. And in the workplace, it is not a solution at all. A pro machine should not expect its user to carry a bag of dongles in order to function properly. In the professional world, USB-C has barely even started to make a dent. Pros need ethernet, HDMI, USB-A for peripherals. Companies are not going to go out and dump a ton of money to update everything to USB-C. Apple has abandoned the professional market. They have become a consumer brand that trades on fashion.

 

[aevan]

They have become a consumer brand that trades on fashion.

Since Apple is doing exactly the same as they always did, they haven’t become anything. They were always like this. You can consider that “consumer” or “pro” or “fashion” or whatever - this was Apple ever since Steve returned to the company and presented the product that would define Apple for decades to come: a transparent, attractive computer in lively colors that had removed all ports in order to push a new standard.

You, and a lot of people here, act as if Apple is doing something different from what they’ve been doing for the past two decades.

 

[Cashmonee]

Since Apple is doing exactly the same as they always did, they haven’t become anything. They were always like this. You can consider that “consumer” or “pro” or “fashion” or whatever - this was Apple ever since Steve returned to the company and presented the product that would define Apple for decades to come: a transparent, attractive computer in lively colors that had removed all ports in order to push a new standard.

You, and a lot of people here, act as if Apple is doing something different from what they’ve been doing for the past two decades.

Maybe they have been doing this all along. I can't fully disagree with that. However, maybe for a lot of their most loyal followers they have finally gone too far. I can only speak for myself, but as an avid Apple user, I have begun looking over the fence much more seriously than ever before. Two years ago I would have never even given a thought to any computer other than a Mac. The only phone I would ever consider was an iPhone. That has changed, and at this point, I am not certain a MacBook Pro would be the top of my list when it is time for a new laptop. This is from someone that has had Mac only since the Intel switch, owned every iPhone, multiple Apple TVs, iPods, iPads etc. I am all in on Apple, and have begun to look at ways to unravel that. I don't think I am alone.

 

[duervo]

I simply do not agree that dongles are an appropriate solution here. The problem has become that every Apple device needs dongles. That is not an elegant solution. And in the workplace, it is not a solution at all. A pro machine should not expect its user to carry a bag of dongles in order to function properly. In the professional world, USB-C has barely even started to make a dent. Pros need ethernet, HDMI, USB-A for peripherals. Companies are not going to go out and dump a ton of money to update everything to USB-C. Apple has abandoned the professional market. They have become a consumer brand that trades on fashion.

They’ve been that way for a very long time. I’m surprised that so many seem to forget this.

- Fruity iMac (don’t get me started on the ridiculous hockey puck mouse that thing shipped with.):

Everymac.com - It was offered in five different colors -- lime (lime green), strawberry (pinkish-red), blueberry (royal blue), grape (purple), and tangerine (orange-yellow). Apart from a faster processor, the iMac G3/333 (Fruit Colors) effectively is identical to the iMac G3/266 (Fruit Colors) that preceded it.

- iBook G3 in “tangerine” and “blueberry”.

- iPod’s of various models, in various colours.

... and more recently, MacBook, MacBook Pro, Apple Watch straps, and iPhones in different colours.

 

[Lord_Gareth]

Since Apple is doing exactly the same as they always did, they haven’t become anything. They were always like this. You can consider that “consumer” or “pro” or “fashion” or whatever - this was Apple ever since Steve returned to the company and presented the product that would define Apple for decades to come: a transparent, attractive computer in lively colors that had removed all ports in order to push a new standard.

You, and a lot of people here, act as if Apple is doing something different from what they’ve been doing for the past two decades.

It is not true, it is very stupid myth.

Jobs made just one true revolution with ports. He created iMac with USB and Ethernet only because there was no other way to rebuild consumer line. There was almost nothing with ADB and serial on the consumer market, people and journalists beg Apple for ancient LPT ports. When iMac arrive there were the similar number of consumer (and cheap) accessories with USB and ADB ports.

There was no revolution in "Pro" lines. Beige PowerMacs were in production till 01.1999, G3 B&W had ADB build-in and SCSI as option. First "modern port only" PowerMac arrived in mid-1999 and you still could buy PCI based "old world" port cards. PowerBook line had old ports until 2000 when they introduced "Pismo".
The same evolution was with FireWire 400 to 800 transition - Jobs kept both ports for a long time. He did not cut off 400 because newer arrived.
The same respectful way we saw with experiments with Cube. Jobs did not kill PowerMac line to force Cube, in fact, he kills his beloved design when market choose "tower line".